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3:08 PM
Morning all.
 
\o
 
Inwalid read in zend_string_release() – #75189
 
@joeerl @IhorBurlachenko Ha, try that one with node_modules
Ah come on there's got to be something there
In response to:
Why send large amounts of data to a server (program) rather than sending a small program to the data?
 
@MadaraUchiha It seems RO are being named for how much they implement @Jeeves or how much current RO's find they're nice, rather than moderation ability or management of newcomers
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Your love.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Do you have an example of that?
 
3:21 PM
yeah, all the last nominations ;)
 
How come Jeeves replied the same message twice?
 
I edited it
 
Oh okay!
 
Anonymous
@FélixGagnon-Grenier oO
 
3:24 PM
@JayIsTooCommon Don't take it personnally ;)
 
ok, so queue my ~3monthly question, what the shit is with that Yasuo guy
 
Anonymous
RO's are given no extra power to help manage newcomers?
 
have any of his proposed RFC's ever passed
 
one, it ruined everything ... let's not talk about it ...
 
@JayIsTooCommon Newcomers are often unaware of rules, subject to (conscious or not) trolling, and should have special attention from ROs, absolutely
 
3:26 PM
and does anyone else get the feeling from his approach that he's more interested in saying "I designed/created the new X feature in PHP, look how awesome I am" than actually fixing problems
@JoeWatkins aww cmon
 
Anonymous
@FélixGagnon-Grenier it doesn't take an RO to do
 
@JayIsTooCommon ROs are given some moderation ability over the room (namely: moving messages, kicking people and viewing history)
 
Anonymous
!!welcome WillParky93
 
Welcome @WillParky93, please read the Chat Guidelines
 
Anonymous
anyone can do that.
 
Anonymous
!!welcome WillParky93
 
Try moving a message, try kicking someone
 
Anonymous
But i'm not referring to that?
 
They're responsible for having new users behave correcty @JayIsTooCommon. please stop the trolling
 
@JayIsTooCommon Ah, you were talking about the bot
 
Everybody can say welcome, but not everybody can enforce rules
And I have not seen a RO do anything about new users since... I can't remember
 
Yeah, the reason it didn't respond the second time is that chat throttles it
 
Anonymous
@FélixGagnon-Grenier wtf are you going on about? Who am I trolling? It's a conversation.
 
Not because you weren't a RO :D
 
3:28 PM
what do you mean "do something about" ?
 
@JayIsTooCommon You seem to be saying that, managing new users, banning them if necessary, is doable by everybody, which it isn't
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Calm down
 
my point is that, ROs should have expanded responsability in that regard
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier He was talking about interacting with Jeeves, miscommunication
 
I can't ban anyone, I can kick them for a minute, and then they come back angrier, then I kick them for five minutes, and they come back even angrier ...
 
3:29 PM
apologies.
@JoeWatkins that's what I mean by "banning"
 
@JayIsTooCommon thank you for the warm welcome
 
and we cannot even kick mods!!
 
@JoeWatkins By then one of the mods lurking in the room will take notice (or, otherwise, in the 3rd, 30 min kick, a flag would be raised)
 
and when they come back, then you escalate with a moderator ping
the first time I was kicked out of this room, I did not come back angrier
 
@Gordon by combining the powers of 5 ROs we can kick the mods
 
3:30 PM
that's not a privilege ... I can just talk to them myself, or let the room (teresko) deal with it ...
 
@Gordon You can fire your arrows from the Tower of Babel, but you can never strike God
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier yeah, you came back grenier. before the kick you was Gagnon.
 
lol. that's a first
 
@MadaraUchiha you and your manga quotes
 
meh, you might be a god, but I can literally punch through everything
 
3:31 PM
@Gordon X-men apocalypse you filthy casual.
 
marvel sucks
 
So does your face.
 
^ that
 
@JayIsTooCommon it seems I upset you, that was not my goal. I hope you can see that what I mean is not an attack on you or other ROs
 
@MadaraUchiha see, you are already abusing that we cannot kick you for insults!!! MOD ABUSE!!!!!!111
 
Anonymous
3:32 PM
Speaking of marvel - If someone says, "is this still due net week?" have they miss-spelt next or are they more intelligent than me?
 
AWS bastards.. for R53 (AWS-powered thing) they have the immediate DNS verification.. but if use another DNS provider.. 72 hours :\\
 
@Saitama No, no. We all know what you meant.
@JayIsTooCommon misspell
Or more intelligent than the both of us.
Which is entirely possibly.
 
also, on a side note, you're gonna hit that 100k rep pretty soon... you rep whore :P
 
@AlmaDo Welcome to "Cloud" vendor lock-in.
 
there's a living being who will hit 1000k rep (or did he already)?
 
3:35 PM
he's not "a guy". he's Jon Skeet. not to be confused with normal human
 
my bad
@Stephen Akamai + AWS = explosive mixture
 
I have a similar points based system at home ... my wife currently has zero points ... I have all the points, hahaha the points are all mine ...
 
:P
 
I heard that turn down for what was made in honor of Jon Skeet
skeet skeet mothaf$@!er
 
3:38 PM
though what I like about those two is that my control center looks like the fancy panel of the starship back from the good old movies
 
Jon Skeet, Reading, United Kingdom
973k 579 7174 7942
@AlmaDo not yet. he's been slacking
 
.. almost
@Gordon I think even if he does nothing, he gets 200 per day? just for old answers?
 
@WillParky93 don't ever make that typo again. it's Jon.
 
@AlmaDo yepp
 
Anonymous
@FélixGagnon-Grenier nah you haven't, sorry. I just don't agree with chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/39089612#39089612 that statement. Also contributing to Jeeves is kinda contributing to the Room imo but irrelevant anyway. It's almost impossible to upset me, unless your @Ocramius.
 
3:39 PM
Just kill me now
 
Jon Skeet just needs 27274 more reputation before he hits 1 million
 
This is always a fun read about our god
366
Q: Jon Skeet Facts

Bill the LizardI'm looking for Chuck Norris Facts style answers. In case anyone is curious, this question was inspired by Jon's own comment to this question. EDIT: If you're into cryptography, you may enjoy these facts. Now with official sanction from the powers that be!

 
He will likely find it in less time than it takes me to gather 100 rep
 
I wonder if there will be cake
 
3:42 PM
I think the S/O 'points' system is quite flawed honestly. Half of mine come from answering a single question about json_decode(). the answer was "pass true as the second argument", and it's been upvoted 500 fucking times.
 
shhh, just ride the glory
 
Most of my answers never get seen by the guy who asked the question
they just come to the site, ask then die
 
depends, is your answer "go die". maybe they do see it.
 
How do you know? Maybe it's your answers that kill them
2
 
@Leigh me likes the way you think
 
3:45 PM
I've held lots of mini funerals for them.
I'm hoping my ex joins SO soon tho
 
Anonymous
took a turn..
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Jeeves has nothing to do about it and the latter is actual arbitrary. FWIW the last round of @Wes by adding ROs was a bit weird to me (not judging the specific choices), but I don't get why.
 
wow that got dark pretty quickly
 
I just need someone to cuddle
 
@MadaraUchiha He has a way of balancing right on the edge
 
3:46 PM
you have your animu waifus
 
and then possibly convince to die
 
@PeeHaa Alright, I'll take your word for it. I guess it was rather coincidencial that some of the last ROs were also actively working on @Jeeves at the name of their nomination. I maintain that ROs have a higher responsibility towards ensuring new users understand this place, this is why they become ROs in the first place, managing the room and ensuring that it stays civil.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier So what bands do you like?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Agree. As a matter of fact not just new users
 
Anonymous
Fuck sake, keep it civil god damnit!!!
 
3:50 PM
indeed
 
Anonymous
done my bit.
 
I watched a black-hat talk from 2014 this weekend about how to break SSL if the server responds differently between malformed and correct encrypted data.
Pretty scary. Haha. Never planned for that.
 
The compression?
 
@PeeHaa ?
 
Wasn't crime 2014?
 
3:54 PM
You're going to have to use complete sentences, my friend. I don't know what you're asking me.
 
Ok work time has finished for me. Thank you all for being such wonderful hosts. I hope you have a fun rest of the day. Please don't forget to leave your site vulnerable to mysql injection and basic xss attacks. Hackers have to eat too!
 
I don't remember exactly how it worked. I know it hinged on using the server's response to determine the pattern which pads the data before encryption.
@PeeHaa Without padding RSA is easily breakable.
 
yes it is
well it depends
 
Impossible to close PDO connection when extending PdoStatement using $this – #75190
 
3:59 PM
And "easy"
 
4:20 PM
evening to all
 
4:39 PM
FIBER baby! Makes everything better, the ol' stomach and my internet.
 
@Fabor Fiber is so 2016. Quantum connections are where it's at. Screw the no-communication theorem.
 
heh
 
all – #75191
 
4:56 PM
@Fabor please, don't post 100MB gifs in the chat
can someone remove it?
 
But fiber baby :P
Yeah, tbh if gifv was supported it would've been fine.
 
:cough: dark theme
 
@Fabor Listen here bub
 
@Fabor maybe you have some type of brain damage or something, but not everyone uses chat from desktop with unlimited bandwidth
 
Still waiting on my bug report bounty @MadaraUchiha :P
-_-
They really haven't got an unlimited package in Lativia yet?
 
5:01 PM
@tereško fixed?
 
tnx
 
hi, short code example, why this does not work? pastebin.com/9kWrZQAm
 
100mb gif === cause for petty attacks? classy
 
Floor Decimal Numbers With Precision
 
@Fabor sure, I have unlimited. But for someone outside Latvia, your "joke" probably did cost about $10
 
5:01 PM
!!notworking
 
Madara fixed it. and FWIW I didn't know the size of the image.
 
Nov 15 '14 at 23:43, by Danack
Do you mean it stays at home eating cheetos and play xbox?
 
I don't get any errors in NetBeans IDE
 
@tereško Well as mentioned I wasn't aware of the size. If they were that concerned about bandwidth costs I would expect them to have a gif blocking extension or something. Much like a parental filter.
 
seems to be correct to me, based on whats on php.net for number_format()
 
5:11 PM
What's the difference between <FilesMatch> and <Files> in .htaccess ?
 
the <FilesMatch> is underneath it
"Essentially both will do the same..." - stackoverflow.com/questions/14792381/…
from google.com
 
thank you
 
5:36 PM
does CI views load just like how ajax load ? something like without refreshing of page ?
 
mornin
 
5:56 PM
How do I add .js to this?
<Files *.png>
    Order Deny,Allow
    Deny from all
    Allow from ::11
</Files>
<Files *.(png|js)> doesn't work
<Files *.png, *.js> doesn't work either
 
huh... I start to think I have anger management issues. Just getting out of standup, and I get really emotional about how the api is designed, or about having that or that service behave in a guessable way, or being told I should not think about it and just do what I'm told.
 
Ok, does anybody know what's ~ in this? <Files ~ "\.(png|js)$">
 
@assertchris yo :D
 
hey @assertchris & @ircmaxell
 
6:04 PM
hey friend! long time, I'm sorry
I've been super quiet these past few weeks
 
Yo @bwoebi!
So, I'm toying around with the idea of building a new language on top of PHP designed to compile down to PHP (and be fully interoperable)
the pre-processor idea was just the test bed for the concept (doing live compilation via require/autoload hook)
Sort of like Kotlin, but for PHP
 
so keen!
 
I've got some thoughts down, and am curious to know thoughts and ideas
 
cool. you thinking something like google docs or github for collab?
 
6:07 PM
@ircmaxell basically another language which is still the underlying PHP, but with a great deal of change for improvement?
 
@AbhiBurk no, and they are not views but templates
 
@assertchris I have a private repo spun up for the parser/compiler/etc and am adding some docs there and ideas. Not sure where to collaborate on the language itself, but want to take that step first
@bwoebi well, it would target compilation to PHP, so you could import PHP libraries and call them, and php libraries can call into the language
 
@tereško so their is only the option to use is ajax
 
so some of the semantics must be kept, but a lot can be gotten rid of...
 
@AbhiBurk who are these mysterious "they" with no other options?
 
6:10 PM
am I allowed to use free gmail to send confirmation emails from my website
 
@tereško what ?
 
or am i required to use gsuite? Ive tried to look at the tos and I cant find anything about it
 
@user7594714 need to create an apps password and use the smtp server details you find in the settings tab
@user7594714 google.com/… (except instead of Gmail password, apps password)
 
@ircmaxell May I ask as a layman, why? :)
 
"This limit restricts the number of messages sent per day to 99 emails;" damn
 
6:16 PM
@Fabor few reasons, not happy with the type system state, and can drastically reduce verbosity while maintaining the ecosystem...
 
Sounds exciting and difficult.
 
oh nvm
the limit is 2000 per day
 
@ircmaxell would there be typed properties, default to private, and such things, or are you thinking about something else, about the type state?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier yes, those things explicitly
 
6:21 PM
@ircmaxell interesting - wondering what features you're planning in introducing? :-)
 
quite a few. Here are my initial thoughts docs.google.com/document/d/…
2
happy to give comment access to individuals, but don't want to give it out too broadly... Shoot me your email and I'll add you @assertchris ^^
 
Primavera + Verano == Prerano? sounds nice!
 
so, @ircmaxell, how is Rails treating you?
 
@tereško don't get me started
though Ruby is quite nice, type system aside
 
:D
 
6:27 PM
@Fabor also cleaning the stdlib, introducing concepts like async/await (one can hope, probably using a third-party provider like amp), evolving the language quicker, pushing PHP evolution through popularity of language features from the new language...
@ircmaxell will check it out now
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier means "reborn" in Bosnian
 
@ircmaxell Prerano is not that easy to pronounce than e.g. Preno :-P
 
@ircmaxell cgpitt@gmail
 
@assertchris yeah, I haven't added any async stuff, but am fully open to it (I don't know the needs well enough today, nor how I'd compile it without seeing)
@assertchris copied
 
6:29 PM
@ircmaxell well, Chris already has some preprocessor macros for that … so, you actually could compile that
 
Is it easy to maintain this kind of thing alongside PHPs development? Maybe "easy" isn't the right term for what I am asking.
 
@bwoebi yes, but I'm not just looking for macro translation. I'm looking at if we can actually introduce behavior, not just shorthand
Maintenance isn't too hard. The difficulty is if php adds things like generics which behave differently
 
hopefully PHP would implement a similar behavior
 
I should add a section for things explicitly not supported. Like references, variable variables, etc
Actually, I think I can support references. Just through an intermediary...
Also, I am fully aware some of that doc is crazy sauce. Feel free to say so
 
6:52 PM
ill just go with amazon ses. its the cheapest
 
@assertchris not decided yet on the stdlib. Thinking of making calls to php code explicit, and redefining most of stdlib around type expressions...
So to call strlen, you would need to call php::strlen() which would use a map to determine parameter types and responses.
 
what if we base all type-checking around assert() and validate in compiled code. then there's 0 overhead in prod
so we convert:
def (any $a) = $a;
to:
function($a) { assert(special_is_any($a)); return $a; };
or something conceptually similar
 
Yeah, thinking along those lines. But the problem is php calling in, since there is no proof there..
So for internal code, definitely. But code at the boundaries would still need checking
 
7:44 PM
@ircmaxell guessing you're keen to use php-parser for this, because of all the type checking and inference?
 
I swear this is not a homework question, and please tell me why I was being downvoted for this question: How can I transpose $input = [5,4,15]; to $desired[5][4] = 15; Am I just having a major brain fart or..?
 
What have you tried?
 
something legitimate use cases of references
 
@kelunik is S.L. a type of company in germany?
 
7:57 PM
I've made this... which I find nasty: `
if(!empty($input[2])){
$return[$input[0]][$input[1]] = $input[2];
} else {
if(!empty($input[1])){
$return[$input[0]] = $input[1];
} else {
if(!empty($input[0])){
$return = $input[0];
} else {
$return = false;
}

}
}`
oh dang that formatting
 
Up arrow x2 -> ctrl+k
Chat doesn't like multi line markdown because it's stupid
 
@assertchris nope, it's based on a custom parser (though generated and very similar to nikita's). Will use nikic's to generate the code though.
It's not PHP syntax, but a new syntax
 
@PeeHaa No, why?
 
Trying to find out the country of a company
 
8:01 PM
@JaredDunham foreach ($input as $key => $value) { echo "Key: " . $key . " Value: ". $value }
 
oh <3
 
That's GmbH in Germany.
Google is your friend. :P
 
Yep I know gmbh
Didn't know whether it was limited
 
!!? s. l. rechtsform
 
8:02 PM
Search for "s. l. rechtsform" (https://www.google.com/search?q=s.+l.+rechtsform&lr=lang_en)
• Firma in Spanien Firmengruendung Wahl der Rechtsf… - Vergleich der spanischen Rechtsformen: Vorteile und Nachteile von Autonomo, spanischer GmbH S.L. un… (http://www.enterspain.com/?Business-in-Spanien/Rechtsformen-von-Unternehmen)
• Hurtan – Wikipedia - Rechtsform · Sociedad de responsabilidad limitada · Gründung, 1991. Sitz · Santa Fe · Leitung, Juan… (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurtan)
• Noge – Wikipedia - Rechtsform · S.L. · Gründung, 1964. Sitz · Arbúcies, Spanien · Leitung, Miquel Genabat.
 
@ircmaxell heading to bed. thank you so much for involving me in this. I'll check back on the doc tomorrow morning. :)
 
@kelunik I was googling wrong / with wrong terms :)
tnx
 
night o/
 
@PeeHaa Google suggested that when I searched for S L :P
 
@assertchris definitely, won't get to do too much more tonight, but let's definitely keep chatting on it
 
8:03 PM
I only got urbans and other weird stuff :D
 
maybe do a hangout or something (open to including others as well if they want to be a part of it)
 
marcio (yay) might be keen
 
twitter.com/_md might also be keen
 
Oh definitely. I'll ping him and add to the doc (I don't want to get too many people involved too soon, but don't want to actively say no to anyone either)
 
 
1 hour later…
Wes
9:33 PM
evenengs
 
Wes
10:18 PM
movies are so bland these days i can't even remember if i've already watched them
 
 
1 hour later…
11:30 PM
@ircmaxell Mhm, please no method overloading. It's one of the things PHP got right. At least given union types, we do really not need method overloading (i.e. if the code can be fully shared). Instead, be specific in your method name what exactly is happening. There is one name and there is exactly one method for that. Makes looking things up also much easier without having to compare parameter lists for differences etc.
Method overloading is ok for low-level things like in C++ where you can't just pass in a number, but need float and int separately even though the function body is (nearly?) identical for example. Using Method overloading for high level code with different function bodies is, if you ask me, a very bad idea. It just isn't needed and for the one valid in a ten thousand use cases it is really not worth it, rather detrimental due to the common misuse I typically see happening with method overloads.
 
@bwoebi method overloading is real good for polymorphism
 
@FlorianMargaine explain.
 
interface Renderer {
    public function render(HTMLTemplate $template);
    public function render(JSONTemplate $template);
}
 
yep. renderHTML and renderJSON please.
 
@bwoebi something like this ^
@bwoebi that's an implementation detail
 
11:44 PM
no, it isn't
 
it really is. If I pass a template from my controller to my model, I don't want my model to care about whatever it is, just call ->render($template); when you're done
do stuff like $template->provide('key', 'value'); and just call ->render($template) at the end
my example is literally polymorphism anyway, isn't it?
 
@FlorianMargaine then you are though effectively mixing up responsibilities … your code creating the template is also the one who shall properly route the template
not the one who fills in the data. That's a generic subroutine.
@FlorianMargaine also, that's the epitome of inflexibility. Your interface is dictating what can be rendered at all. It's not the interfaces task to determine that here.
 
yes, this example has wrong responsibilities and stuff, but the point stands: method overloading is real good for polymorphism.
 
Wes
@bwoebi + union and strategy if needed. much simpler than overloading
 
It is one of those things that can easily be misused
 
Wes
11:51 PM
i agree with florian but i don't like the idea of php doing the disambiguation automagically
 
I was actually looking forward to dropping the dollar sign - why do we have to type that every time!
 
what you really should have are possibly different implementations of Renderer. There shall be interface Renderer { public function render(Template $template); } … and class HTMLRenderer { public function render(HTMLTemplate $template) { … } } (note the type restriction here!)
 
Wes
and, i have no problems doing it myself... i'd dislike that sort of magic
 
@FlorianMargaine no, it doesn't. And I don't think you'll be able to find many good examples because the concept is actually flawed.
but just consider your own example … that's how quickly one can make bad decisions with method overloading.
 
@bwoebi You mean to say that method overloading is a bad decision?
 
11:58 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier in general, yes.
But given union types and default values, one does not really need method overloading or it should really be multiple functions with different names each.
 
I don't understand how that is even related
 

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