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15:02
when they say a cpu supports ddr3 ram with a range of frequencies, does it mean it cannot interact with ddr4 memory, were the motherboard to support it?
@PeeHaa And what about them do you dislike?
the comments here seem to suggest that only the motherboard have to be compatible, so that a "ddr3 cpu" could actually be used on a motherboard with ddr4 slots
@FélixGagnon-Grenier DDR3 and DDR4 have different sockets
yes
cpus do not feature sockets.
not "different CPU sockets"
I meant "different RAM sockets"
the I dont understand what you are trying to ask
would this cpu, run on this motherboard, even though the cpu says that it supports ddr3 only, and the motherboard have ddr4 slots only. does the cpu actually knows, expects a specific type of memory, or is that abstrated by the mb
@Trowski Less readable, harder to search for
@PeeHaa Looks tidier and easier to spot what's being used. It doesn't help that everything is of different namespace length before the class name itself. (if pulling classes from multiple namespaces)
> Tigerdirect.ca

Notice: Order Verification Required
15:07
@PeeHaa search is easier, not harder?
@kelunik yes. that's what I said :P
Without group use
Sorry, on mobile
15:09
@FélixGagnon-Grenier LGA 2011-3 in general is not compatible with LGA 2011 chips
Because grep works better there
those are different sockets (supporting CPUs that are two generations apart)
really?
well, yeah, it's evident from the name.
@kelunik grep only works better if you always use the fully qualified name, which makes no sense either.
ok, well that starts out bad
15:10
@FélixGagnon-Grenier each motherboard will somewhere have a full list of compatible CPUs ... somewhere
:D
@tereško so I guess I will have to resort to older motherboards ebay.com/itm/…
can I trust that LGA2011 to be LGA2011 and not -v3?
I think you can
but by look of that board, just dont overclock anything
it has almost now "power stabilization" (can't recall the proper term)
can you define a bit more what that is? stuff to prevent power fluctuations?
15:17
yeah, the capacitors near the CPU
right. overclocking would take more energy, so capacitors are needed to... what? prevent overheating?
!!? capacitor
Search for "capacitor" (https://www.google.com/search?q=capacitor&lr=lang_en)
• Capacitor - Wikipedia - A capacitor is a passive two-terminal electrical component that stores electrical energy in an elec… (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor)
• Capacitors - learn.sparkfun.com - Introduction. A capacitor is a two-terminal, electrical component. Along with resistors and inducto… (https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/capacitors)
• Afbeeldingen van capacitor - No description available (/search?q=capacitor&lr=lang_en&tbs=lr:lang_1en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwif5Mzx6YjUAhVEEl
can... can it be seen as some kind of "buffer"?
when you a "heavy" operation, it needs more power, which caused the a drop in the circuit .. which caused PSU to compensate, but if the load almost immediately goes a away, the PSU will slightly over-volt the entire system
the capacitors near the CPU are there to smooth out those bumps
I think I see.
15:21
when you overclock, you also raise the voltage to the maximum the CPU can take, but without stabilization, those bumps can cause your CPU to crash
hence - don't overclock on that board
is there a specification that correspond to that, like "capacitor capacity", or is it just experience and eyes that can speak of that?
it's based on "it looks that way" assessment
Evenin
@tereško so, if I am not mistaken, that motherboard seem to have three capacitors just beside each socket.
15:25
I think in general, it's not worth the risk to overclock unless you're a performance freak and you know what you're doing :P
and those look like server boards
yes, I believe I started to be in piece with the fact that this will not be a gaming build... even though I'll game on it anyway
@HamZa but the fun!
well, the options are quite limited: newegg.com/Product/…
do you really want a dual socket board?
well, I have two cpus
I could use a single board and have one as replacement for when my tinkering breaks it
... that course of action might actually be a bit future proof, as I could maybe ahve one that I could reuse after that server cpu hype, though the ddr3 limition is limitating
naah, all the single socket boards that I can find seem to be in the same price range as duals
15:34
well, it seems that is the cheapest I can have for a compatible mb. it's funny, I can't say what is the difference with that one, yet it's 80$ cheaper
aww crap, just when you're like "yeah, that seems cheap enough" and you realize it's in us dollars
@FélixGagnon-Grenier they also seem to need 4U blades (with EEB support, in particular)
but I am not certain about that
what is a "4u blade" ? memory?
can you cancel your CPU order ?
maybe. not sure, as it seems to have shipped
wait, no, those are not blade (I think that was only for 2U)
google "4U EEB"
AFAIK, that's what you need yo actually crew it in :D
15:43
oh
yes indeed, what the hell am I about to put this in
you really need to cancel your order
or you will end up with two expensive keychains
I must say, I was trying to talk you out of buying those yesterday
@tereško you believe, that I would have to pour too much money in that for the fun I would get?
you need a board to put them on (noone is making those anymore, hence - the price) and you need a EEB compatible case (I am not sure if there are any none-4U options for that ... it's not ATX as that ebay pages says)
getting RAM, GPU and drive would be easy
quite frankly, I am a bit out of my depth here
Does "I call deep" mean "that thing is mine, because I said deep sooner" ?
^ never heard of that expression
15:52
@bwoebi It works better, because usually you use the FQN. Didn't say it works perfectly well.
really? however not sure what I wrote is the one I heard in the movies :-)
And I only said that, because @PeeHaa said the other thing is easier to search.
You can call something like, a common phrase here is "I call shotgun," which means the person who calls it gets to ride in the front passenger seat
@Shafizadeh the expression probably is "I call dibs"
That makes more sense.
15:53
@tereško yes yes. thx
And yes, it's because the person called it out first
@Shafizadeh now you know what to google :P
@Tiffany I see, thx
@tereško yes :P
@Trowski Is there any reason to use threading in amphp/parallel instead of just multiple PHP processes?
@tereško these actually does not seem to be that much non existent newegg.com/Product/…-11-‌​854-018--Product
I would have had to buy a new case anyway
16:02
ah, I had a question about aerys
ah, so some ATX cases support EEB
is it a master process creating the server socket and fork/exec, each child running epoll_wait on the server socket?
@kelunik I assume the threads are faster and lighter-weight, but I haven't actually tested what sort of speed or memory differences there are. I planned on looking into creating a Channel implementation that was threaded, which would likely give threads a distinct advantage.
and, there is also that cheap $150 mobo that would not support overclocking if eeb was a nogo
16:04
@Trowski As everything has to be serialized anyway, I guess the only benefit is having the serialization in shared memory instead of passed via IPC?
@kelunik Right.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier that one just has a bad description. I am quite sure it is not ATX
@Trowski Should we mark all implementation details as @internal so we can break them whenever we want?
How can I separate a variable of a number? I mean I need to remove the dot in the second line 3v4l.org/P7XfQ
16:06
The user shouldn't have to care about the actual execution anyway.
I don't want to be a pita, but it does seem the dell precision, from which the mobo comes from, is a mid-tower chassis i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/shared-content/data-sheets/en/…
in any event, I'm prepared on buying a full tower case if necessary
@kelunik Definitely, if it's not public API then we should be free to break it, but which specific details are you referring?
... also, no, I can't cancel the order
and return policy seems like trouble, but I'll see next week
@Trowski I'm not really familiar with the library, so can't tell. I just expect things might be non-optimal and I'd like to be able to change those without breaking all the apps.
16:09
@FélixGagnon-Grenier it's not so much about the case size as it is about screw holes ... ans whether the motherboard try is lowered (like Define R5 case has)
@PeeHaa Guess so, you submitted it to Reddit.
@kelunik Obviously everything in Internal namespaces is internal and I suppose should be explicitly marked as such. I don't recall any public methods being intended to be internal… Did you intend to do some docs updating for that lib?
@Trowski Someone familiar with the library can write those docs... maybe you? :P
Morning.
16:23
@kelunik Heh, okay… :-P Are we ready to tag any other libs, such as byte-stream or socket?
@Trowski RC there you mean?
@kelunik Yeah. 0.1.0-RC1?
For byte-stream at least.
@Trowski I'm not a fan of tagging a 0.x release as RC
Or is there a reason to do RCs on 0.x versions?
@Trowski Could you have a look at the open issues there, please?
@Trowski I don't see a real advantage of tagging RCs there TBH.
16:26
@kelunik Thats fine, just tag 0.x versions immediately then.
@Trowski I'd just tag them once Amp v2 is out.
@kelunik I didn't...
read it again
I was summing up things against group use
@kelunik I am scared
@kelunik If a parser yields a promise, should it be handled just like a coroutine then (success value sent, failure thrown)?
I know the end goal which is use amp, but I am not sure yet how to get there :P
@kelunik that sounds like an argument against: you would usually think to have found everything and miss a few things
16:38
@PeeHaa Next step is probably callbacks and the time they're really executed (they're not executed while the echo sequence runs, only after that), then promises, which make use of the return value and use a placeholder instead of no return value + callback, and then coroutines.
@Trowski I guess, yes.
Not first the event loop?
I have been going back and forward with where to go from now
@Jimbo remember to tell the others that left to go through the PRs at github.com/ShittySoft/trivago-cqrs-es-workshop-2017/pulls if they can :-)
ShittySoft lol
@PeeHaa Not sure.
@kelunik My initial concern is that's doing too much.
16:40
@Patrick Try ZioBrando?
@PeeHaa it's my de-facto organisation for consultancy gigs
every client gets a repo there
awesome
Yes, @Ocramius always spams my newsfeed with that.
@kelunik I would love to drop every uniqid() usage if I just had UUIDs :-P
@Ocramius Just use UUIDs?
@Ocramius even random_* is better than uniqid
16:42
@Trowski Oh, that's fun: yield yield $somePromise; :D
uhm …^^
@kelunik no, because I'd have to require a library just for that one testing mechanism...
@Ocramius You already have bin2hex(random_bytes(16)), which is strictly better than UUIDv4
@Ocramius Please respond that to internals.
1 min ago, by PeeHaa
@Ocramius even random_* is better than uniqid
16:44
No, because there's a moron on that thread that still keeps bragging about "I don't use composer because reasons"
:-P
I used to be that moron
I don't even wanna get started responding to that
You still are A moron
probably THE
I know I know :D
16:44
@Ocramius Don't respond to that, but that it's often enough used to be in core and not require a library.
@Ocramius Don't recall seeing Lester reply yet…
@Trowski :D
lol
@Ocramius Did Yasuo reply?
@Trowski How do you want to solve backpressure?
16:46
haha
@bwoebi unsure
btw, I just made a package that makes composer EXTREMELY difficult to use: github.com/Roave/composer-gpg-verify
@kelunik I'm not sure the parser is the place to apply back-pressure. The generator can call another method that could affect the code reading from the source and sending data to the parser.
^ @bwoebi could finally sign releases...
@PeeHaa btw, you need to keep up with expectations, you can't keep seeming to be useful
@Trowski Just being able to yield here would make backpressure really easy.
@kelunik I should also do that.
16:51
@Ocramius I hope I can :) For some reason this was scary for me
@kelunik Let me think about how that could be handled. Need to focus on work that pays the bills now.
@Ocramius I had trouble following his talks, find it hard to understand him.
Is it becausea hea talkse liak an italiano?
@kelunik I haven't seen the point in it yet...
@Ocramius i guess so
we have an italian on the team, maybe he can translate :D
16:55
@Patrick anyway, I can do workshops about designing APIs, but I'm not enough into DDD to say that I can hold a DDD-only workshop
more about implementation than the managerial part
user1804599
Where can I read about the VM bytecode and bytecode interpretation?
What's @rightfold doin in here too? :O
user1804599
I like PHP and I like writing compilers and VMs.
I'm so sorry!
@Ocramius we have a little DDD code already up and running, but we need someone to look over it to make sure that we are going into the right direction and give some feedback. And we have some trouble figuring out how to properly event storm, we got walls full of post-its but I'm pretty sure we are doing it wrong ^^
user1804599
16:56
I'm writing a VM (not for PHP) and I now have to design a bytecode language.
user1804599
I have done if before but never compared it to anything else.
user1804599
So I don't know if it was the proper way to do it.
I remember @igorw and @ircmaxell made a workshop about it at PHPBenelux in 2015 - maybe they got some material?
no prooph though, all POPO
@Patrick you got event-storming problems and you don't want to get ZioBrando? O_o
My event-storming is entry-level anyway
user1804599
16:58
@Ocramius Thanks.
@Ocramius well it's just one thing. Having someone look over the code is just as important
And the talk that I tried to watch didn't leave a good impression. Maybe I should try a different one
@Patrick poke me if you need that then - you are in Schwaiziland, right?
@Ocramius yes. Zurich
we are waiting for a response from mathias verraes with some suggestions, I'll also bring up your name and maybe ziobrando. Maybe we'll have to do it with multiple people. I just hope it gets through with the CEO, took us forever to get the workshop with verraes approved and now he's booked out -.-
@rightfold what kind of vm do you have?
stack or regs?
user1804599
17:11
Stack-based.
user1804599
Heap objects are all immutable, which is a nice property for the GC.
user1804599
So mutation instructions only operate on local variables.
ok, so the easy choice
user1804599
:p
17:23
@rightfold What design is considered good depends on the characteristics you want it to have ^_^
@Ocramius I don't remember any material. I remember doing it tho... I'll check with Igor
For example if you want a compact bytecode you might use something register based with an implicit accumulator register.
17:42
$sql = "SELECT * FROM follow WHERE following = :user ORDER BY follower ASC LIMIT 10 OFFSET :offset";

$stm = $conexao_pdo->prepare($sql);
$stm->bindParam(':user', $userpage);
$stm->bindParam(':offset', $offset, PDO::PARAM_INT);
$stm->execute();
offset is not working
is this right? $stm->bindParam(':offset', $offset, PDO::PARAM_INT);
Binding to an offset is usually not supported by DB platforms
@Ocramius what to do so?
You'll have to pass in an integer there, not a bound parameter
in the safest way?
"SELECT * FROM follow WHERE following = :user ORDER BY follower ASC LIMIT 10 OFFSET " . (int) $offset
user1804599
17:45
@NikiC Apparently Zend is register-based.
user1804599
Thanks.
@Ocramius still not return more values from db
user1804599
Oh, I recall that article.
@OtávioBarreto what does it do?
17:48
I am testing with 2 rows from db , it should load the next one
but it does not load
no error messages
Write a test case?
I am sending the value 10 in the offset var
that's normal then - offset 10, limit 10, given 2 records on the DB, is 0 results
do you think it may be the problem?
why? does it happen and ho to solve?
Offset should be 0
17:52
ohh got it
lol
everytime the user click load more button the $offset var is incremented by 10+
this is the right way?
10 next 20,, 30 ...
First page should be 0
otherwise the first 10 results are never visible
the first 10 are visible in the page, on click button it pefform a ajax call to load_more and send the $offset var
every click it sends more 10 to the $offset var
$(document).ready(function() {

var userpage = "<?php echo htmlspecialchars($donearray); ?>";
var number = 10;

$('#showmore').click(function() {
$.ajax({
type: "POST",
url: "load_more_followers.php",
data: {'userpage': userpage, 'number': number},
success: function(html) {
$('#showmoreresult').append(html);
$("#loaderIcon").hide();
number = number+10;
}
});

});

});
in load_more_followers.php page $offset = $_REQUEST['number'];
Hello people of PHP
but the frist 10 are already loaded in the main page, on peform the ajax call it load more 10
don't know if my logic is right but this is how I imagined it
18:08
@Trowski @kelunik I have have not touched any of this for ages and you should do whatever seems like the right thing
@DaveRandom Wasn't there something like: pgsql allows for async connect, but postgres only async queries?
Anonymous
Who manages web-php?
@JayIsTooCommon levi basically :P
Anonymous
@LeviMorrison you suck :D
@bwoebi It's ext/pgsql vs pecl/pq, @Trowski implemented pq support into amp/postgres
18:19
@DaveRandom yeah, that
I mean, wasn't that the drawback of ext/postgres?
@JayIsTooCommon ?
prefer pq, use postgres if not available
oh, it's implementing both…
well, then there's no point in amphp/psql?
user1804599
@NikiC What is sizeof(_zend_op)?
18:27
@rightfold large
@rightfold 32
user1804599
And this is kept in memory for the entire program execution?
yes
user1804599
Thanks.
@rightfold … there are not that many ops.
user1804599
18:28
OK!
user1804599
In one of my VMs I decode bytecode during execution.
user1804599
Using a struct is indeed much easier.
@rightfold it is a bit less flexible though
user1804599
Well, some things are nicer.
user1804599
For example an instruction to load a constant string can directly point to the string, instead of through an index into a constant pool.
18:30
like that
or limited number of args
(unless you have ridiculous things like dummy op_data opcodes :-D)
user1804599
I'll have to write a bytecode decoder anyway, but I think I'll decode them into a arrays of structs.
@PeeHaa This was actually something I was curious on, hopefully this is a good post...
user1804599
Whatever works, for now. :P
@bwoebi nope :-)
@Tiffany I hope so too :P
@rightfold was this afternoon good?
18:35
@DaveRandom fine … rm all the things!
user1804599
@PeeHaa Sure, why not?
rm -Rf --no-preserve-bob @bwoebi
@rightfold I mean how did it go?
user1804599
That was yesterday.
user1804599
It went well.
user1804599
They will email me this week.
18:36
Really yesterday?
wow
I am missing a day this week somehow
user1804599
lol
nvm me :P
Cool
@PeeHaa I mistyped and accidentally deleted @PeeHaa … he didn't require a --no-preserve-* flag :-(
@PeeHaa What happens when there's a code block that is dependent on the result HTTP request? In the example you gave, you used echos, so wouldn't it output something like "1 2 $data 3 4 End"?
@bwoebi You cannot delete a rootkit bro
:P
@Tiffany I can give you more pseudocode
sec
18:38
danke
@PeeHaa Yeah, that explains why I was undeletable
that was a short post, but it made sense
I WANT MOAR
It only took me two weeks to finally just push the "fuck it, make it public" button
:P
@PeeHaa Where's your second post?
yeah, where's the second post?
18:41
in a local probably-next-post.md file :P
it's sad I have to hide my face when I laugh
@PeeHaa contents?
@PeeHaa yeah, put loop after that.
@bwoebi After what @kelunik suggested?
18:43
yes
k tnx
@PeeHaa In fact, you need the event loop somehow to explain when the callback is executed, so probably do the event loop first.
@Ocramius and @rightfold here's the repo from our workshop: github.com/igorw/cute-little-interpreters
@tereško you were right, the other motherboard was indeed not atx, actually, support told me all dell motherboards are custom shaped.
18:45
@kelunik I'd introduce the event loop as a concept, but not yet the actual accessors/methods
at this point, I have two options before having to pass the 1k$ mark: finding a used dell computer with both the case and mobo, or enjoy my expensive keychain
user1804599
@ircmaxell Thanks.
@bwoebi Didn't say that.
good, then we agree
I'd introduce the event-loop in the context of the explanations basically
18:48
Thanks @ircmaxell!
@ircmaxell do I think I should use frameworks or build in pure php?
I don't like frameworks
use composer
find libraries you like
don't use frameworks
depends on problem set, experience, team, etc
Then don't use them? Just make sure you take a weighed decision, rather than building garbage because you don't know them, rather than like them :-P
And yes, if you don't know PHP very well, you should likely use frameworks, since they took many decisions for problems that you don't even know anything about for you
@Ocramius I'd amend that to say don't know programming for the web very well, but totally agree
18:53
I think this is the first time I've heard someone advocating for the use of frameworks in this chatroom
It's almost as if it's not a black-and-white should/should not, but that can't be true because this is the internet.
@Tiffany what @ircmaxell just said
I learned about CSRF just because ZF1 had CSRF protection on forms, for example
good luck teaching CSRF to someone mixing HTML and PHP code (typical entry-level stuff)
fair point
or well, rather than teaching, having them find out about the vulnerability in first place
or LFI
or XSS
or XEE
@Tiffany Use frameworks, if you need something real and don't really know what you do.
18:54
etc etc etc
or injection
if you know what you do, then usually frameworks are more rarely what you need
@Tiffany Use heroin for that
@DaveRandom sumatriptan
I would probably trust a web developer to build framework-less stuff only after they've proved me that they are capable of planning something much much much more complex in a secure way
18:56
whatever floats your boat expands your capilaries
some frameworks are vulnerable too
and tbh, what I see in companies gives me confidence that 90%+ of all PHP developers just need nursing like little children
(from an architecture PoV)
@DaveRandom funny enough, sumatriptan actually contracts a blood vessel to the brain to help get rid of migraines
@Ocramius Yeah, good architecture is a much harder problem than most anticipate.
@Tiffany Oh I thought it was a vaso-dilator
18:58
@Ocramius My recent interview experience shows Rails/Ruby/Python/Node are exactly the same...
@ircmaxell I just work with PHP companies, heh
yes, just worked on a Java project and it was the same btw
thankfully I don't get migraines but my misses does, so I do actually have a bunch of those epi pen style things in the bathroom
@ircmaxell Also C and asm devs? (Just curious)
Yeah, I used to have a bunch, I need to get my prescription refilled.
@bwoebi didn't talk to any recently, but ASM I think have different sets of problems ;)
18:59
I'm actually kind of afraid of using the injections because they hurt. Or I'm just stabbing myself in the leg too hard.

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