« first day (2286 days earlier)      last day (2888 days later) » 

14:00
I've already done that ... no idea how that helps with giving wireless devices addresses, would the dhcp requests goto asus ?
should do yes
wifi is L2
so DHCP DISCOVER should just be relayed to broadcast if the tpl has DHCP disabled
14:01
I can't bring myself to spend any more money on internet connection ... this month I'll have spend £220 on connecting to the internet ... that's unreasonable already ... will consider a new router next month ...
whether it will actually do that is another question
but I'm not really sure the server needs both lines anyway ....
if it has them and uses them, it will make the internet crap for all other devices in the house anyway ...
probably not, it should only really be there for redundancy
@DaveRandom well, there's nothing so critical if it's down for a few hours once a year
and there's no easy way to configure it to work in redundancy mode for one machine, and load balance all the others ...
14:04
> I think the specification will have a long future, instead of looking back and taking historical "cruft" with us.
So much that @kelunik ^
@JoeWatkins In fact @JoeWatkins I suggest this (DNS wise): create wan1.krakjoe.ninja and wan2.krakjoe.ninja. Those are the A records that get dynamically updated. Then make nevis. a CNAME to one or the other, and if you need to then just switch the CNAME to point to the other record
That's what I tend to do, give an IP address an A record, and make the names of things that people actually access for things into CNAMEs
the ddns client can only update one wan
Do you know what firmware it's running? the Asus
latest
or at least, the web interface will only update one wan
14:06
checked yesterday
@JoeWatkins pretty sure I could knock something up to run on the server itself to deal with that issue
can't use that ...
I guess this is a tweaked version of their firmware
I read a comment from the author that he has no idea how dual wan works, and so doesn't touch it ... so not running that ... also it had merlin on it when I got it and couldn't see a way to configure it even
@bwoebi But the shutdown hook doesn't need nested loops, it just needs to be able to continue old loops, as it has its own call stack.
14:08
@kelunik yes
nested loops are not an actual requirement
Well, unless the testing framework or such is going to be supporting nested loops
> You should ask them directly, as I don't touch the Dual WAN code. It's too complex (and undocumented, so I don't know how it actually works).
@kelunik and creating new loops
Basically I know draytek OS, and I know windows RRAS, those are the routers that I know basically everything about in terms of actually configuring them. I used to dick around with netgear and tp-link, I abandoned everything else in favour of draytek a long time ago because they are feature rich, actually work properly and have support channels that real people who speak english and understand networking actually respond to in a timely fashion.
Did you ask about your problem on snbforums?
14:13
The last router I had before this one was a draytek 2820 that I had for about 6 years, never had 1 single problem with that wasn't entirely my fault, and the only reason I replaced it is because I needed a vdsl modem.
@Leigh done a bunch of searching at different stages ... if I can't have dual wan ddns, then it makes everything too hard - you configure a route, the router reboots and sometimes gets new addresses and can invalidate the route, so you update the route and over and over and over for days on end ... the things I needed to work were stable dmz access to server and ddns, and that's working ...
@bwoebi github.com/async-interop/event-loop/pull/… < If I write down those requirements, point 3 seems to suggest we need stacked loops, no?
Gah, can't curl to php-fpm via. the socketfile, what am I missing? Just literally doing curl --unix-socket /path/to/fpm/socket.sock http://localhost/index.php
it wouldn't be terrible if I could use both lines on everything, but it is terrible that I've spent so much money on getting on the internet this month ... it works ... so I give up trying ... maybe next month I'll have the energy to try again, and can always sell the equipment I have to recover the costs ... but for now, I'm happy that access to server is stable and everything else - the bandwidth chewers, firetv etc - are working with both lines ...
@Sean I'm not familiar with the unix socket option, but I guess it expects it to accept HTTP requests, not FCGI requests.
14:17
@kelunik Oh yeah, of course
@Sean Yes, exactly, it just sends the HTTP request over the unix socket instead of a network stream.
@kelunik yeah, actually does… though for what I use it, it's just doing I/O and no signals, so not too tragical if we happen not supporting stacked signals
@bwoebi Yes, stacked signals aren't that important I guess.
I'm inheriting an app that uses laravel /o\
Guess what step 1 is \o/
Anonymous
:P
Anonymous
14:18
learn Laravel of course
shoot previous developer in face ?
@Leigh rewrite everything to Amp?
Rewrite in CodeIgnitor!
Morning.
Amp is actually not a good fit for this
14:21
@Leigh nah, use Aerys and everything
Anonymous
@bwoebi Laravel is probably the better option in commercial :P
Could use Aerys I guess, but I wont
@Leigh :-)
@Leigh Yes, better wait with that for 1.0
14:22
It's an API gateway type of project, doesn't even really benefit much from h2
Anonymous
@Leigh Commercially, is it symfony that you use or do they have their own fw?
@JayIsTooCommon legacy is mostly bespoke, new stuff is mostly libs
Anonymous
nice
getting there
Anonymous
still using cake and ruby on rails here (Y)
14:24
:P
ruby.. cake.. red velvet?
jCakeOnRailsQuery
Anonymous
@Leigh aye
moin levi
does anyone know anything about CAA records ?
@bwoebi If you want a project on Aerys, rewrite the PHP bug tracker, has just 8232 lines currently.
14:27
someone does need to work on a new bugtracker
> Category: Standards Track
we're obviously never going to be able to drop it ...
It's fairly new, but it's standard record
@JoeWatkins We actually started that: github.com/bugcache/bugcache
@JoeWatkins But replacing the PHP bug tracker shouldn't be too hard, it doesn't have that many features.
@JoeWatkins Should probably have a generic update and add all that are missing
14:28
That's not a trivial list to generate
Trustwave is a pretty big name in SSL right, why would they ignore it ?
They probably just haven't implemented it yet
isn't that confusing, isn't it their business to implement it ?
it's not going to be superseded by some other new thing ?
@JoeWatkins Nope their business is making money
14:30
> Also keep in mind: I'm not aware of any other CA that implements CAA yet. So, while adding the entries is nice, keep in mind that most other CAs will be willing to issue for your domain regardless.
:-(
it sounds pretty useless to me if it's going to be ignored
Don't browser vendors also have to check it?
Personally I think adding support is harmless and potentially useful in the future
if someone has bothered to implement it, I would accept it - it is a standard and that's all the matters for this sort of thing (IMO)
I'm not convinced we have the knowledge to document it, or legitimate reason to add support for something that's not used properly by all but one CA
FWIW I am agree with random. Why would you look at CAs instead of the standard?
14:33
What if the guy is using a private CA on his private network, and wants to use it
to see how widely adopted it is, to try and find out if there is something in the pipeline going to replace it ...
No need to limit people because public CA assholes ar dicks
@Leigh Exactly
can some of you comment on the PR, so that we have consensus ... happy to be wrong whatever ... I just wanted a conversation and got one ... but not much good in here ;)
That random guy all started it
@JoeWatkins Well a userland application could choose to use that information as part of their own verification process
it is potentially useful for adding additional security measures in userland
14:36
sure, that's legit ... please say some of this stuff in public ... as said, happy to be wrong about it ...
it's also potentially useful if someone decided to implement a CA web interface in PHP
Also:
Comodo (soft)
DigiCert (soft)
Entrust (soft)
Izenpe (soft)
Let's Encrypt (hard)
Symantec/GeoTrust/Thawte (unknown policy)
The following DNS servers support CAA records:

BIND (Prior to version 9.9.6 use RFC 3597 syntax)
NSD (Prior to version 4.0.1 use RFC 3597 syntax)
PowerDNS ≥4.0.0
Knot DNS ≥2.2.0
Google Cloud DNS
@JoeWatkins is there an internals thread?
nah, just comment on the PR
14:37
It is actually being used. They are just dicks about the way they use it
@Levi Chris or I will do the opengrok setup, so gonna remove request for volunteers so we can pin that draft
morning
@Andrea LGTM.
oh yeah, +1 ... I think actually this has thrown some very useless errors ...
14:41
@JoeWatkins I feel like it kinds defeats the point of ignoring whitespace if you only ignore it at the start and not the end.
I might need to do some digging to confirm it, but I suspect the current behaviour could be a consequence of copying C
I think a similar issue came up recently, I've forgotten where though ... where we handle ws as C does for something ...
the intval thing perhaps ?
hmm, maybe
/me is afk, school run
14:45
I wonder if there's some cross-locale inconsistencies there. Sometimes we manually do *p == ' ' || *p == '\t' etc., but I wonder if we also use isspace(). Not sure if the latter varies by locale…
@JoeWatkins done
@DaveRandom thanks
@Andrea I'm not sure ...
seriously now, must go and get the kid from school ...
@JoeWatkins okay ^^
@JoeWatkins you have a macro for that message, do you?
Is an entity saving its state changes an SRP violation or not? Does objects encapsulating state also include state changes?
I really like how simple the test for the whitespace change is.
@tereško Oh for fuck sake
> While some predominant feminist perspectives understand the dildo as a symbol of the phallocentric order, there are others which view it as a tool for transformative politics. Queer theory
@Andrea I think allowing trailing whitespace is exactly the opposite of what we want. Better disallow leading whitespace.
@tereško I stopped reading at "patriarchy"
Fucking third-wave feminists
The best thing I've did to my Twitter feed is blocking this kind of people
15:08
“third-wave feminists” is what people who dislike feminism altogether say
@Andrea I like feminism. In a Simone de Bauvoir sense.
(in particular, I notice that a lot of cited examples of “third-wave feminism” are actually from earlier waves)
@Trucy you apparently are not a connoisseur of the absurd
if you can convince yourself that something was once good and has now changed, you can pretend you actually don't dislike it
@tereško My second degree radar doesn't work well in english :(
15:10
@tereško Sounds like a good one for twitter.com/RealPeerReview
@Andrea I like the idea of women are just as good AND bad as men (and vice-versa)
hi, I was that there was a commit recently (github.com/php/php-src/commit/…;, which removes class_name from ZEND_BEGIN_ARG_WITH_RETURN_TYPE_INFO_EX() macro
while zend_type is a nice addition ... doesn't it breaks every extension which uses return type hint?
(if any)
@Trucy ideally sure
I think a lot of opponents of feminism confuse the goal and the status quo
"opponents of feminism"
Care to explain that term?
15:13
is it not self-explanatory?
"No I do not care to explain it, now get back to the kitchen and (sudo) make me a sandwich"
To you, am I an opponent of femininsm?
/me hides
it's too fucking early for this shit
feminists are pretty much the same as christians - they all go by the same label, but there is this small and extremely loud group, that makes everyone else look worse
15:14
@pinepain AIUI, no, because you can use a macro to construct a zend_type
@Leigh rule unknown rule 'me'
touche
@Trucy I don't know if you are, but I'm… very used to people saying “I like feminism, but…” and it turning out that they apparently do not
@tereško Emptiest vessels make the most noise, that's apparent in any group of people.
@tereško perhaps, but people also go well out of their way to find reasons to dislike them
on a completely different note
15:16
@Andrea I think that if I'm an opponent of feminism, I'd be pretty much destroying my current lifestyle
hey, an Ace Attorney fan
@Sean tempted to make a vessel related joke... but I feel the atmosphere may be a bit tense
hey, another Ace Attorney fan!
15:17
Have you played Spirit of Justice?
that's the most recent one, right? I intended to do so over Christmas, but didn't :/
I've played every other game in the series aside from DGS, though.
I'm still trying to finish the one with Godot
Impressive.
I really want to figure out who he is ._.
I only played the main series, I don't read japanese sadly :(
15:18
Also the Layton + AA crossover was amazing
@Sean oh, Trials and Tribulations is great
@Sean The best goddamn prosecutor, that's who he is
@Trucy if you want to play GK2 (the second Investigations game), there's a pretty good fan-translation patch for it
@Andrea I should look after it. But I have other games to finish (a lot)
@Andrea so i guess the code needs to use ZEND_BEGIN_ARG_WITH_RETURN_OBJ_INFO_EX now, which would be nice to mention in UPGRADING.INTERNALS or so
15:19
@Trucy fair enough :p
@pinepain that might be the case. you could ping Dmitry about it, he's the one who made the change
@kelunik that would also be reasonable. Maybe harder to justify for a 7.x release.
@Andrea if I am the one who's wondering, it might not be worth pinging him
maybe.
BT phoned and it turned into an argument ...
15:34
D:
You have the right to cancel within 14 days if you're not happy with the service, iirc. Customer support is part of the service
"You do have static IP addresses" ...
ah those static IP addresses that change every time I reconnect
I'm happy-ish ... but £100 a month for something that is not quite what I want/need, it's very annoying ... and then to have to deal with total idiots makes it worse ... they rang me to get feedback and talk about a complaint I made ... everything would be much simpler if they would just let me buy IP's ...
gonna be on hold now for the rest of the evening probably
@JoeWatkins Are you on BT Business?
Because you can buy static IPs with that
15:42
I'm not
2x BT business = £70/mo, IP addresses are £5.50/mo, or £11 for 5
@JoeWatkins Which Chris?
@Andrea Making the situation worse is even less justifyable.
@LeviMorrison @DaveRandom
@Leigh talking to business sales
@kelunik yeah… you're reminding me of me wanting to deal with the alphanumeric increment/decrement asymmetry by adding the latter (rather than removing the former)
15:46
grumble. Remove the former
yeah
Definitely falls under "probably not what you wanted"
guys, i would like to ask a question about Redis. does redis has LRU approach to the persistent data?
i couldn't get detail about this question through google
You mean, not even the first hit? redis.io/topics/lru-cache
15:54
BT business is CHEAPER !!!11!!!!
Anonymous
What is a fancy way to pass object from controller to view in Symfony?
Anonymous
Should I just pass the object to twig, and let is handle it?
@JoeWatkins wow it actually is, £35/mo/line vs £50/mo/line, are the line costs extra for business?
nope, £29.90 (line/bb) + £5.50 (ips) x2, one off cost of £15 per line for switching
And if they switch you up to business, they might send you business hubs, which support PPPoE bridging, (according to Chris)
15:59
I told them not to bother (to speed switching up), with static ip addresses, I can just use equipment I got ...
(the tp-link things are already doing pppoe bridging)
they said it won't make any difference how quick the switch is, so I'll take them ... £8 one off delivery each
probably won't plug them in if I don't need too
if they can do the same thing, could get some cash back for the tp links
yeah, they can go back to shop ... "I meant to buy bags of sweets, not these curious electronic boxes" ...
@JoeWatkins I pulled some strings. Got you a broadbandbuyer.com/products/15293-draytek-v2860n-k, should be delivered to me tomorrow, I will program it and ship it to you.
wut, are you serious ? what do I owe ya ?
Well that's not strictly true, what I actually did was got me a 2860ac, you can have my soon-to-be-old 2860n :-P
16:12
awww, thanksyou <3
@JoeWatkins A non-alcoholic beverage of some variety :-P
@DaveRandom you got it, of course :D
Oooh, make it a milk
That should result in a generally tidier setup, it has 1 built-in VDSL modem so you will only need 1 external (which you can use 1 of the tpls for)
excellent ... but I did already fix both of those to the wall :D
no matter
I can use holes as pen holders, for when I need a pen ... never ...
16:15
Well you can cover the extra holes with the draytek :-P
ah is it wall mountable ?
Yes, although I also have a spare rack bracket for it if you have a suitable rack to put it in (usually not good for WiFi though, you want external aerials if you are going to do that)
wall mount is excellent
no worries, it has your bog-standard screw-slot-hole thingies on the back
switching to business with static ips on 31st
user image
3
16:19
I've realized that "digging down the rabbit hole" that I'm so readily to apply to Wikipedia, can also apply to MSDN's documentation.
@Andrea No, please don't remove it. It's really helpful for in process IDs to be unique.
I can't believe business is going to be actually cheaper ... also, it comes with 24/7 support, guarantees about downtime, and people who know what they are talking about ...
I would rather have guarantees about uptime though:P
@Tiffany Dunno. I mean that is true, but if we were to liken wikipedia to a decent acid trip, MSDN would be like a really bad trip with scary monsters which ends in jail.
@JoeWatkins I assume they bite you on call charges?
There's a penalty somewhere, the question is whether it's one you care about
@DaveRandom I'm not having a phone service ... I don't even plug in house phones ...
16:24
@JoeWatkins wow. Good job. Maybe I should also look into business services here…
all of us have mobiles with free/inclusive calls ... landlines are just another thing to fuck up the internet connection ...
Well no, basically no-one does, but it can't be the same service for less. There's a penalty somewhere.
well they say that your evening/weekend/whatever calls are free as a residential customer, but what they mean is included in the price
I made him read out the speeds several times, I checked it's actually unlimited, I asked him if its the same speed I get now several times ... it's the same fibre ... if I did plug in a phone, probably would get charged a bunch for it ... but not worried about that ...
Jan 11 at 8:18, by PeeHaa
Just go cold turkey
16:28
I am. I don't participate any more at all
@JoeWatkins I would assume that's it, that's usually where it is (another job I did in the distant past is line/broadband service comparisons)
I am aware of that this is not mysql chat group but still I want to ask this "I have 300k records in my candidate table and there left join with country and address but the problem is its taking too much time to load only 20 records as I am showing only 20 in datatables
So How can make my query faster considering that i have added indexes to respective columns wherever needed"
By adding indexes
@DaveRandom Yeah, that's how this is turning out for me. I'm looking for API documentation for web.config, I thought it would be under Web Server Development. NOPE, it's under Windows Server > Common Services Framework. wat.
what Dave said, also EXPLAIN is sometimes useful thing to look at
16:30
@Exception start here
I have about 12 tabs open for MSDN because I'm trying to find API documentation
@DaveRandom business.bt.com/products/broadband - it's the premium infinity service, with some discount they are doing this week ...
@Trowski Any reason why Socket::send is protected instead of private?
@kelunik Not particularly. I noticed another bug in that file, so I'll change that at the same time.
@Trowski I want to keep the public API and non-public API people might still use as small as possible.
16:36
@Tiffany Here's my favourite thing about MSDN: VB Join() docs or wait is it this? Or perhaps this?
And obviously those are super-easy to find because the URLs make complete sense.
Oh no wait, the other thing.
PHP people seriously do not know how good they have it with docs
yes we do
PHP has docs?
@DaveRandom Are you sure it's not this?
16:39
@Dereleased maybe. But then again it might be this
@DaveRandom At least that method signature is exactly the opposite of the others
@Dereleased and if you do it in C# you can define an extension method overload to accept the args in either order for shits and giggles
@DaveRandom Although, that does allow it to be very php-like
If you use PHP to make a living, read this page http://bit.ly/2iARERu find ONE PERSON mentioned on this page and thank them. Do it today.
16:51
So documentation I'm reading, which LOOKS LIKE it's the newest, says I can use a feature called Web Site Administration Tool for modifying web.config files. Maybe that has something about the API! Page tells me nothing that it's a VS-only feature, I had to google it. I download Visual Studio Code since it's free with no licensing loopholes. I look for this Web Site Administration Tool. Nowhere to be found. It's a feature for an older version of Visual Studio
WHAT THE FUCK
page is missing nearly everyone, up to and including Nikita and Dmitry
@JoeWatkins oh, manual… already thought we shall thank ourselves :-D
yeah and you ... I was going to reply with a real list ... it's unreasonably long
probably why we gave up updating it ... but you're not allowed to remove stuff from php.net, because reasons ...
@JoeWatkins we have contributed a bit, but we're not active maintainers
I try looking for a third-party extension that MAYBE works like Web Site Administration Tool... I come acrosss this question involving VS Code and web.config (not exactly the same I'm looking for, but close enough)... they're using JSON. web.config uses XML. WHAT IS GOING ON. MY LIFE IS A LIE.
16:53
any list that doesn't include dmitry is stupid imo ... niki and dmitry are basically responsible for what php is today (ng) ...
no mention of Stas, he works harder than almost anyone ... probably anyone ...
@JoeWatkins Yeah... a lot of people are missing ^_^
> The following contributors should be recognized for the impact they have made and/or continue to make by adding content to the manual:
that's the second bit
oh no it isn't
16:55
that's from the first part with names
yeah, I just read it again ...
It's like running PHP on Windows, they were perfect for each other...
well Levi should be on there at least ... it looks the way it does because of him (and a few others) but mostly him I believe ...
Time to gib the hackson then
I'll bring corn chips
FWIW, everyone that's telling me to switch to LAMP or whatever the acronym is for nginx in place of Apache, I added it as a goal to my evaluation for this year. So some time this year I'll be switching from WIMP to LAMP. Assuming I'm not forced to change it to something else :/
16:58
I can't find the front page section referenced there ...
@bwoebi @Trowski Should we keep github.com/amphp/artax/commit/… as is or change it to pass the socket / only crypto information / change it to a crypto only notification?
keep it

« first day (2286 days earlier)      last day (2888 days later) »