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how did you find out about that ?
 
anyone want a 75% off coupon for ori and the blind forest definitive edition on steam? it expires in like a week, I already have the game, and would rather see it not go to waste
 
yo paul
 
@JoeWatkins the twitters
 
5:18 PM
-42 anyway, we don't take extensions nobody cares about and dump them in core
@PaulCrovella have a star so it stays around a while ... I have no idea what you are talking about ... steam is stuff that comes off my tea ...
is that what this is ... an offer of a cup of tea ?
 
> I honestly don’t know why everybody settled on Quick Sort back in the day.
I'm confused… don't we anyway need quick sort for identifiers which cannot be mapped to a low number of bytes?
@JoeWatkins … steam… well… time for a steam bath.
 
@JoeWatkins it's a really nice platforming game store.steampowered.com/app/387290
 
I think he means stopped at quick sort ... we just kinda ... didn't work at it ...
 
@JoeWatkins makes more sense
 
@PaulCrovella huh, so steam is some kind of game dev engine ?
 
5:24 PM
@kelunik I didn't receive your last mail… internals mail distribution still broken…
 
is it new ?
 
Revised version of Programming Languages: A Brief Summary (h/t @psu_13 for the correction). https://t.co/ybqRm1eDXe
 
@JoeWatkins game store, mostly, though they do provide some services and whatnot to developers
 
so the "install steam now" button, what exactly does that install ?
the store ?
 
@Joe cat /dev/greenlet
 
5:27 PM
well .. this is a shame: 3v4l.org/FQYji
 
@tereško I agree … fixing it to accept arbitrary expressions which do not start with $ too would be great … but …
 
@bwoebi yes ... yes ... I haven't made any progress on that ... got sidetracked with work and php stuff ... I will come to it some weekend ... hopefully this one ...
!!reminder
 
Usage: !!reminder [ examples | list | <text> [ at <time> | in <delay> ] | unset <id> ] Try !!reminder examples
 
!!reminder examples
 
Examples:
• !!reminder foo at 18:00
• With timezone: (ie. UTC-3) !!reminder foo at 18:00-3:00
• !!reminder bar in 2 hours
• !!reminder unset 32901146
• !!reminder list
• !!in 2 days 42 hours 42 minutes 42 seconds 42!
• !!at 22:00 Grab a beer!
 
5:29 PM
@bwoebi .. but it is not simple.
 
@JoeWatkins It's fancy DRM
 
@tereško no. But it's a little BC break
 
@Leigh that's a thing I understand
 
@JoeWatkins basically. it's a bit more than that, but primarily exists to sell you games
 
@bwoebi php 8.0 ?
:D
 
5:29 PM
most double quoted strings containing { will parse error then … most… those which happen to have valid PHP expressions in them will suddenly execute code… @tereško
 
Sell you games that you can't use without their software
which tries to sell you more games
 
!!reminder greenlet at Saturday 07:00:00
 
Have a look at the time again, yo!
 
@bwoebi yeah, it would need to add escaping
 
Reminder set.
 
5:30 PM
@tereško adding escaping is the least concern … just talking about current code
 
thought, adding {{expression}} and requiring escaping for two subsequent { could mitigate it
 
@tereško hey, that's PHP, not mediawiki templates :-P
 
so these games can be written in anything I would suppose ?
 
@tereško dunno, weird… I'd prefer just { TBH
 
true, but sacrificing on the altar of BC is the php way :D
 
5:32 PM
rather innovative delivery mechanism, gotta be better than paying £40 per disc ... which is what I remember ...
 
The simple fix to make things cross-version-compat again is just switching double to single quotes
 
in php 9.0
 
So, there's an easy way to maintain cross-version-compat and thus not that much of an issue IMHO @tereško
 
@JoeWatkins the downside is you can't resell the games now, but it is way more convenient and tends to be cheaper
 
PHP 8.0 could do it too IMO
 
5:36 PM
@PaulCrovella I actually do
 
wow the console things are expensive
 
@JoeWatkins "console things" ?
do you mean the controllers and steam link?
 
or are you talking about PS4/Xbone
 
I was looking for xbox/ps logo on the link things but only saw windows logos and whatever ... so they are for normal consoles are they ?
 
5:37 PM
@tereško what's your steam id? I'll send it to you
 
@JoeWatkins oh .. sorry ... those are shit. Dont look at them.
@PaulCrovella 76561198061728346
 
oh so the link things work on televisions
 
yes
 
oh but still require computer
 
also, yes
 
5:40 PM
so what's shit about the aio boxes ?
(other than price)
 
@JoeWatkins they are aimed at people who think that consoles are the best
 
I can detect I'm not supposed to think that ...
but if it's not for me ...
I don't buy the kids the latest consoles because they are hugely expensive, and then every game is a bunch of money ... wouldn't mind paying for a more expensive console if a few bucks a month is getting them the latest games ... is what I'm thinking ...
 
well, the all-in-one systems not upgradeable, with poor cooling, BUT they are "plug and play"
@JoeWatkins how old are the kids?
 
12 and 7
are they not suitable for that age maybe ?
 
you probably could just build them a basic gaming PC and give them a monthly allowance on SteamWallet
 
5:43 PM
yeah but it's fitting them in their bedrooms
 
@tereško okay, found you. I think you need to be on my friend list in order for me to send it (not sure, I'm bad at this steam thing)
 
I wanted elder one to have PC, but she got a laptop in the end ... there's nowhere to put a pc ... the younger can fit one in ... but you can't do it differently because they'll argue for the next 10 years ... they both have xbox 360 and wii, games for them are dirt cheap ... every birthday/xmas they are asking about ps4 and xbox one, I keep having to say no ... even though they get reduced all the time, the games aren't getting reasonable ...
they don't really play on the consoles, not really sure why ... guess it's because nothing good is coming out for them ...
 
@PaulCrovella I think that was you I added
 
okay last time I plugged a pc into a flat screen television permanently, it broke the television in a matter of days ... is that not a problem any more ?
 
5:48 PM
I don't think those two were related incidents
 
oh no they were, it burned the desktop image into the television ... the television was quite new ...
 
@tereško yep. crap, you need to open up to trades (the coupon is an inventory item)
 
lol
 
why is this shit so difficult
 
@JoeWatkins That's one cheap-ass panel right there
 
5:50 PM
@JoeWatkins I had that twice 10 years ago
 
it was a long time ago
 
I think they were samsungs
iirc
 
I think they were LCDs, more to the point
 
hey more to the point dave
 
can't remember but wouldn't have been cheap
(was for my office, where I'm never cheap)
 
5:51 PM
I have a machine connected to my maybe 7 year old TV, have had PCs connected to that thing for years, no screen burn whatsoever
@JoeWatkins well "old" would also do it
 
i have one connected to an old plasma flat screen.. get occasional temporary burn in
 
dunno if people even still make panels that are susceptible to that sort of thing
 
it stayed until it went in the bin a few months later, took it off wall and gave it to sister, thinking normal use would fix it ... never did
 
it's a thing I vaguely remember, but not a thing I have seen for a lonng time
You know it's really long when there are 2 "n"s in it
 
hmm, gaming pc may be reasonable then ...
 
5:55 PM
Well at the end of the day, screen burn only happens in areas of the screen that display the same thing for ages. If that happens while you are gaming, you are probably not playing the game very well :-P
 
erm ... kids seem unaware that things have off buttons ... but do know about pausing ...
 
make them pay the electricity bill, they'll learn about off buttons pretty quick
 
@JoeWatkins that's a purely educational problem
 
but that is true ... and I guess I don't need to panic if it's just not a thing any more anyway ... I haven't allowed pc to be plugged into any television for more than half hour or whatever since that happened ... it was an expensive mistake ...
 
you probably should read up on the TV's specs
it should have somewhere stated, if it can be used with a computer
 
5:58 PM
@tereško I tell them to turn stuff off ... they just don't, and I don't remember to nag them about it ... and am not the nagging sort ...
 
well, if they do not turn it of, take the HDMI cable away for 3 days
 
yeah ... so they can be all up in my business ...
 
and when you give it back, warn them that the next time it will be 4 days
 
they just switch devices when you take them away ... we tried that ...
 
ok, then do a "one day"
lol
 
5:59 PM
Or just thrash them with an HDMI cable
 
oh man, hdmi cables would hurt like hell
 
Man things were better in the old days. A kid really listened to a beating with a SCART lead, these modern things just don't leave the same kind of impressions.
 
haha
 
/me makes dinner, later
 
@DaveRandom that's why Asian kids do better ... traditions
>:D
 
6:01 PM
this is escalating quickly
 
they do mostly do as they are told ... or else I wouldn't be considering any of this ... them not turning stuff off is a product of their environment (everything requires power)
I guess I could switch their machines off remotely if they were pc's though ...
or could be configured to shutdown at bedtime even ...
 
now, that's a technical solution for an education problem
 
well it's not like I haven't told them ... we've had this discussion twice this year and we are on day three ... still, they will fall asleep with their televisions on tonight, and probably their bedroom lights ...
I fall asleep with the tv on too ... don't you ?
 
nope
 
actually twice since start of holidays, not quite this year ... but the last time we chatted about this in this room, I talked to them, and that was literally days ago ...
 
6:05 PM
does your tv not have an auto-off feature?
 
@JoeWatkins now you know where they got it from ...
 
I was really expecting yes there ... you sleep in silence ?
@PaulCrovella urm urm ... I .... haven't checked that ...
 
@JoeWatkins you seem to consider this to be alien
 
@JoeWatkins Don't fall for games, they'll waste too much time … especially given that you have children…
 
@bwoebi considering them for the children ... I don't do games ...
@FélixGagnon-Grenier well ... yeah
 
6:10 PM
@JoeWatkins Don't you have a daughter who learns programming?
 
yeah, the elder one
 
@JoeWatkins still selling her soul to Python?
 
when I was your age we had to program our own games. in basic. uphill, both ways.
 
@bwoebi ?
 
6:12 PM
nice^^
 
@PeeHaa well… you changed tabs to spaces…
 
You always mix tabs and spaces in the same file?
 
WhyNotBoth.jpg?
 
:D
Also tabs are devil's blood
Everybody knows that
 
> Of course. If you don't know who you should piss off, use a ~3.2 character width indentation to be sure to piss everyone.
 
6:14 PM
@bwoebi yeah, she is still using python ... it's not a bad thing though, that's what they use at school ... she's familiar with php and java to about the same level ... though nothing really complicated yet ...
 
what's her rebellious phase gonna be? ruby?
 
assembly is fine
@PaulCrovella I think COBOL would be far scarier
 
@JoeWatkins No. We don't have any electronic devices in our bedroom (unless we bring our phone or something).
 
@LeviMorrison are you punishing yourself for something ?
 
6:17 PM
@bwoebi you can make a good living maintaining old cobol software.. it runs a frightening amount of things we rely on and nobody learns it anymore
 
@JoeWatkins I cannot… except really tired…
@PaulCrovella nah, NEW things in COBOL
 
well that's just sick
 
@PaulCrovella but yeah… well… at some point it should just be ported to something more high-level
 
@bwoebi well I generally don't fall asleep unless exhausted
 
@JoeWatkins No. It's just how I grew up and I actually like it ^_^
 
6:19 PM
@JoeWatkins In that case I would have 30 hour days regularly at least … like 20 awake, 10 sleep … In that case I'd be probably exhausted for bedtime
 
@Danack IT WAS A JOKE. NOT MEANT TO BE REAL…
 
also, I can't stop working and go to sleep straight away ... unless falling asleep at desk with peanut butter sandwich in beard .... I usually have to do something else for an hour or so ... driving or watching documentaries usually
 
@Danack the title, for one
like everything in it
 
@JoeWatkins I can, but usually only when exhausted… Otherwise I read a bit in bed … usually between 15 (rare) [30 is more likely] and 2 hours…
 
6:21 PM
oh, the words. Right.
 
@LeviMorrison I grew up with 6 brothers and sisters, for a while ... which may explain the aversion to silence at night ...
 
@JoeWatkins Turn volume down until you don't hear it anymore, gradually over a couple of months…
@JoeWatkins I do have my desk in my bedroom … but once I decide to go to bed, I usually don't touch electronics anymore and phone will rest on desk.
 
my phone makes noise all night ... literally last night was the first time I turned it off at night, because it was too much ...
I switched it back on at 3:30am ... too see what was going on :D
 
@JoeWatkins what type of noise?
 
vibrating and email noises
 
6:26 PM
@JoeWatkins seriously…
 
yeah serious
 
@JoeWatkins I suggest priority mode :D
 
@JoeWatkins well, doesn't your phone have a feature to disable vibrations/noises during night or such?
 
offices in usa and other countries, it never stops ...
 
@JoeWatkins sure … but YOU sleep.
 
6:26 PM
On Android the feature is called priority mode.
 
@LeviMorrison oh that's it, ok^^
 
but it could be for me, if I'm conscious, I'll look ...
I mean it's always for me, but I mean it could be something that requires my attention immediately
 
@JoeWatkins life continues without you for a night…
@JoeWatkins no it won't.
you sleep and sleep.
 
it happens quite regularly
 
It's your boss' responsibility to have someone else ready during your sleep or unavailability in general…
 
6:28 PM
I can choose my work hours, but I can't choose everyone elses ... I feel obliged to work that way
there is only one me, certain things I am responsible for alone
 
like your health and sanity
 
@JoeWatkins If a bus factor of 1 is acceptable, these things must be uncritical and thus can anyway wait until next morning…
 
you will eventually be in a similar position bob ... unless you purposely avoid it ... I don't know why I didn't ... I feel most useful this way I guess
when you are the only person who understands code which everybody relies on ...
 
Wes
i always fail at everything i put effort into
i just cooked the worst thing ever. not even if i was starving i would finish it
 
@JoeWatkins possibly. But this still doesn't force you to be always on call
 
Wes
6:31 PM
the fuck...
 
but it does, when offices are opening when I am clocking off
nobody hires two of us ... unless facebook, google, or one of those (which I don't think I could work for) ... you hire one, and everyone else is just whatever they can find ... and then you're backed into a corner ... you can't let whole teams stand still ...
 
@JoeWatkins well… I probably will no matter what sleep through the night… I don't have a too light sleep (a blinking phone or such won't wake me) and most importantly don't hear anything during night…
 
plus you actually are responsible for your own code, no matter the time of day ... if you get a message in the middle of the night and it's stopping more than one person doing their job, you cannot in good conscience ignore that
this is the sort of things I'll come back to pc for ... not anything, the constant noise is just annoying, but I need to allow it most of the time in case the kind of thing happens where I am actually required ...
 
only thing waking me would be perhaps vibration… but then I either learn to ignore vibration or I wouldn't be able to have a good sleep anymore
 
@JoeWatkins it's not your code, it's your employer's code. you just happened to be one of the people that wrote it
 
6:37 PM
the one ... there is literally one of me, nobody else can change code I wrote ... it's always that way ...
 
@JoeWatkins I have quite a talent moving away from vibrating sources while in bed…
 
try moving toward them, you might find you're into it
 
haha
 
I agree with @bwoebi. No code can be important enough that someone should interrupt your sleep
 
@PaulCrovella I thought that'd be rather a thing for women?
 
6:39 PM
I'm just saying there are no other C programmers, not that I write such complex php that nobody can join in ... in case not clear ...
 
@JoeWatkins Then they should hire one
(unless it's a company of just 5 people)
 
you wanna come work with me ?
 
hello guys
 
I dunno if you noticed bob, but there aren't that many c programmers ... we are a dying breed ...
 
@JoeWatkins first let me do bachelor, then I'll have to decide whether to seek jobs or continue with masters…
 
6:40 PM
@JoeWatkins Something something, no they just smell that way.
 
plus we are expensive ... for what they pay me, I don't even know how many php programmers they can hire ...
 
@JoeWatkins there are quite a bit of C++ programmers… they should be able to do C too
@JoeWatkins I have no idea what you're paid…
 
yeah but places tend to hire one, like I said, unless one of the really big companies ... where I don't really like the idea of working ...
@bwoebi more than they have ever paid any single php programmer, even managers ... and it goes up every year ... sometimes twice ...
 
guys can you help me with a small issue of linux-php ?
 
@Kain just ask.
 
6:43 PM
@JoeWatkins What are PHP devs paid then?
 
/minute?
I'll take that job :-P
 
Recently I moved from windows to Ubuntu so when i write a wrong php code it's give me a ERR 500 not where's the wrong code is ..
 
!!canon errors
 
385
Q: How to get useful error messages in PHP?

CandidasaI find programming in PHP quite frustrating. Quite often I will try and run the script and just get a blank screen back. No error message, just empty screen. The cause might have been a simple syntax error (wrong bracket, missing semicolon), or a failed function call, or something else entirely. ...

 
6:45 PM
@bwoebi all php programmers start as junior and pay is crap, less than £25k, (which is about average for php-only programmers) ... you can jump quite a lot after the first year, if you can be given a senior role ...
 
@pe
@PeeHaa @Jeeves thanks guys
 
@Kain You're welcome!
 
hello All
 
@Jeeves now do the whole turing test ...
 
@JoeWatkins Neither did I.
 
6:46 PM
good ...
lol
 
Hey everyone
Hope you all had good hollidays
 
can someone please help me read this json api.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?format=json
 
my eyes hurt...
 
That's not json
 
redis keeps killing itself
 
6:47 PM
@JoeWatkins 25k/year sounds like a joke if everything else isn't paid for you… I mean… rent will, depending on where you live, take a good 700-1500/month…
 
lol nice wall you have there :P
!!mdn jsonp
 
[ Tips and techniques ] There are a few different potential solutions here:
 
@Ekin Received SIGTERM scheduling shutdown huh?!
 
lol nice page @Jeeves
 
yeah @bwoebi I've been through this, basically: coderwall.com/p/j5osrg/when-redis-can-t-set-maximum-open-files but still not working
 
6:48 PM
@PeeHaa In soviet russia, you don't make puns..
 
@asifa Google jsonp
 
@bwoebi it's very crap, but aimed at the kind of people with no responsibilities ... juniors ... mostly late teens early twenties and living at home still, also, I don't know what they get in the USA ...
 
On a related note. Are you guys aware of the deprecation message in amp/redis @bwoebi @kelunik
Especially kelunik I think
 
@PeeHaa which one?
 
I am getting SQLSTATE[HY000]: General error: 1366 Incorrect string value: '\xF0\x9F\x8F\x86\n...' for column 'tooltip' at row 1 when I try to insert a value, so I tried using utf8_encode($value) and it still gives me the error message, any idea how I can make it valid?
 
6:50 PM
> otice Using the options array is deprecated and will be removed in the next version. Please use the URI to pass options like that: tcp://localhost:6379?database=3&password=abc
 
@JoeWatkins I don't think I'd like to start as a junior…
 
@PeeHaa update opcachegui
 
@Jeeves I didn't hear please
 
@PeeHaa Oh, ok. I go to Fargo High School.
 
55
A: MySQL throws Incorrect string value error

DanackIt's the character at the end of the tweet that's causing the problem. It looks like an 'emoji' character aka japanese smiley face but it's not displaying for me in either Chrome or Safari. There are known issues storing 4byte utf characters in some versions of MySQL. Apparently you must use ut...

aka change to use utf8_mb4 in mysql
very probably.
 
6:52 PM
@tereško I wish.
@JayIsTooCommon I had ot get up to take out the trash, then I went back to bed
 
@bwoebi you will never have to worry about that ... you are educated, and start as senior, if not manager or some supervisory role ... php-only programmers don't tend to have educated themselves formally ... if they had, they wouldn't be php-only programmers ... there are no degrees in php :)
 
Though you also ought to check that the string actually does contain valid utf8 chars.
 
@JoeWatkins I don't know ;o) I think I'll see once I seek a job … // dinner
 
@Danack Shouldn't the utf8_encode($value) assure that it only contains utf8 chars?
 
oh it is valid \xf0\x9f\x8f\x86 = TROPHY
 
6:53 PM
everywhere works differently, to service such a large network of sites, they tend to hire quantity over quality, there are a few very smart guys (one is a nuclear physicist, another used to be a CS lecturer) ... but mostly juniors ...
 
> Please note that utf8_encode only converts a string encoded in ISO-8859-1 to UTF-8. A more appropriate name for it would be "iso88591_to_utf8".
aka that function is horribly misnamed and isn't what you want.
 
I understand, so would it be appropriate to use a regex function to delete all non utf8 characters?
 
htmlspecialchars might be the function that does that.....but it would be better to change the data type in the DB, to be one that stores the full range of UTF8 chars.
4 mins ago, by Danack
aka change to use utf8_mb4 in mysql
@Alesana somewhat surprisingly, the utf8 column type can't store all utf8 characters. It fails to store characters that take up 4 bytes.
Feel free to delete stuff, or make your app work properly as you feel fit.
@JoeWatkins fyi that RFC was posted on the 23rd to the list. The email didn't reach me and there are some "is this email thing working" messages right after it.
 
Hmm I don't mind deleting it as I don't want to save characters that can't be displayed easily. Thank you
 

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