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3:21 AM
moin
 
4:08 AM
 
4:29 AM
Moorning
it's really strange that when a Java oriented person hears the fact that I use PHP they dismiss me as a programmer, that's really strange
 
Morning everyone
 
mor
 
4:44 AM
@tereško wideaperture.net/blog/?p=3851 followed 8 steps and feels bored and stopped, i was doing it in virtialbox.
you are right about it.
Sep 15 at 9:44, by tereško
@SagarNaliyapara well, the "hard part" is the installation, since you will have to do it from terminal with no GUI while reading the manual
 
5:01 AM
!!dad
 
Why did the can-crusher quit his job? Because it was soda-pressing
 
Wes
@ziGi let them laugh. their language is fucked up too, in many ways more than php
 
I agree
It's just that I don't understand why people get married for the language they use.
I also code in Delfi, Java, C++ and Python in terms of OO languages
 
posted on October 05, 2016

New Cyanide and Happiness Comic

 
5:11 AM
Whoever invented ORM is an idiot
for letting idiots use it the incorrect way cause they lazy
@Wes can you give me an example of more fucked up things in Java compared to PHP
 
there is none
java for ever
 
Hahahaha
@MohammadSalehSalehi so what's the good thing about strongly typing things
and checking for nulls everywhere
 
@ziGi I don't think so. they are a revolution in modeling databses
 
Wes
i'm not really an expert of java @ziGi but for instance, generics. you think they work in java, but they suck in reality
 
What is a revolution in modelling DBs?
@Wes I was gonna say the same ^L^
:D
 
5:18 AM
@ziGi every good this has dark side
 
Generics are quite non-generic
@MohammadSalehSalehi nice excuse
I believe good things shouldn't have a dark side
and Google recommends against using nulls
You can actually really easily avoid them
 
Wes
specifically the variance is poo. a language implementing generics properly is C# which in general has a robust type system
 
Hssssss
C#
:D
 
Wes
that is actually a superior language, imho. i would use it if it was open/not bound to microsoft :P
 
Q: Why do Java developers wear glasses?
A: Cause they can't C#!
 
Wes
5:21 AM
maybe the funniest thing in java is RuntimeException (unchecked) extending Exception (checked)
 
Hm, can't do bold anymore
 
Wes
also crap is the ambiguity of primitives and their boxed version
 
yuuup
 
morning
 
5:42 AM
@Wes thats not half as funny as the mess that is SplExceptions
 
Wes
@Gordon that is an extension even if someone pretentiously called it "standard"
 
'nin
 
@Wes that sounds like you assume it not to be widely used
 
standard and spl are two different extensions, also everything is an extension, SPL really was written to be part of the core language
 
Wes
"standard php library", not ext/standard
@Gordon they should've been more critique about it before starting using it, imho
spl wasn't heavily marketed, it's not even documented, so it's not php only to blame
 
5:52 AM
spl is not documented?
 
Wes
many things aren't
 
there is plenty of blog posts about spl and there have been quite a few presentations about the stuff in it at conferences.
 
What about DDD vs Three Tier
 
@Wes find some
I think what you really mean ist "not everything has examples", but that's by far not the same as "not documented".
 
Wes
it's just the arguments list
brb
 
5:57 AM
what is missing in your opinion? that's complete docs to me
 
Wes
6:09 AM
maybe
 
Why don't they change the namings of the functions in PHP to not be array_<something>
but just use array<Something>
 
Wes
still you can write working php without touching spl. in my mind that makes it still an extension, even if "standard php"
@ziGi that is not really an advancement
also hey joe forgot to say that :D
 
@ziGi because function names are written with underscores. only method names are camel case
 
@Gordon wtf
seriously
what about CONSTANT_NAMINGS
so you say that if I make a global function it has to be named calculate_circle_circumference_global_function(r)
 
@Wes hardly an argument imo. you can write working php with a tiny fraction of the standard extension. basically all of the array and strings functions are convenience functions that can be done with the basic operations for those.
@ziGi no. just calculate_circle_circumference
 
Wes
6:14 AM
spl, not ext/standard
 
Also, one more thing, why are array functions sometimes starting with the array as first argument and some take it as a second, thrid
and some return an array, and some return a boolean and have an array by reference
 
@Wes no, I mean standard. there is loads of convenience functions in there.
@ziGi constants are written in uppercase with underscores
 
Wes
weren't we being critique to spl only? :P
ext/standard makes much more sense than spl
 
E-mail cannot works in php through cpanel..
 
@Gordon SOTHISISAVALIDCONSTANTANDHOWISTHISREADIBLE
 
6:18 AM
@ziGi with the notable exception of array_map, all array functions take the array as the first argument iirc
 
Hello Community
Need help to solve this issue ASAP stackoverflow.com/questions/39864540/…
Stuck for more than a Week
Any help would be appreciated
 
@Wes half of ext/standards is unneeded convenience functions
 
Anybody pls help me to solve this issue...
E-mail cannot works in php through cpanel..
 
@abdul Use SMTP Mail
 
@ziGi YOU_FORGOT_THE_UNDERSCORES
 
6:21 AM
Ah, sorry I did not see that you said WITH, I read the word WITHOUT
 
@AnkitShah yes i already using SMTP
 
@ziGi as for the return values and the reference: a lot of these are direct wrappers around their respective c functions
 
but email cannot send
 
@abdul What error is giving?
Going in Spam
 
nothing displays ,but email cannot be send in cpanel
@AnkitShah
 
6:22 AM
Error reporting enabled?
 
@Gordon ok, I am just asking, cause people always attack me when I say PHP with the dollar symbol thing and the language methods
I needed some clarity
 
yes
 
Check for the server logs
@abdul
or ask Hosting Provider for Support
 
@ankit shah this is testing mail code <?php

if(mail('shahul@iyristech.com','testmail','hi welocme.'))
{
echo 'success' ;
}
else
{

echo'failed';
}
?>
thank you @ankit
 
@abdul Bro this is not SMPT
*SMTP please refere to URL which i have given & it's gonna work
please USE SMTP
 
6:25 AM
ok @ankit thank you
 
It would be nice if there was a library which has a method mail and when you call it and the mail is received to fire an event email_recieved or something
Unfortunately the mail creators don't have a standard protocol for that I think
 
@ziGi I know the reaction from java people. but when you ask them about when they last used php, it's usually around php4. and when I tell them what php can do nowadays, they usually are surprised.
 
I do the same, but they still say "Meh, we are sure it still can't catch up with Java" :/
 
user6619012
6:46 AM
can anyone check this question and review code : codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/143285/…
 
7:14 AM
@user5348fh8y5 are you @nsdlfefinedieicbe and if so what has happened to your account?
 
meurning!
 
user6619012
@Gordon no , his account exists, he is team mate....
 
@JoeWatkins ping
@JoeWatkins see twitter DM.
 
Anonymous
7:38 AM
morghi
 
Anonymous
!!wotd
 
deleterious: harmful; injurious.
 
7:54 AM
!!rebecca
 
@Epodax Only 1 day, 16 hours and 5 minutes left until Rebeccaday, OMG!
 
\o
 
@Ocramius: Do you know by chance if/when Doctrine MongoDB extension will drop the deprecated driver ("mongo") and pick up the new ("monodb") one?
 
moin
 
Anonymous
8:04 AM
morn dave, sean
 
@user5348fh8y5 he is your team mate? how many people are on that team?
 
@Sean reviewed, minor changes requested
 
@JoeWatkins Do you have to be a child to sign up for the class?
 
also I hate that multi-line if (preg_match, can you put the expression in a var and collapse the if to one line @Sean?
 
It doesn't matter that much but it really makes my face twitch
> No JavaScript frameworks were created during the writing of this article.
lol
 
morning
@abdul why ?
 
!!rfcs
 
is there an equivalent for ZEND_STRL for zvals?
 
@Epodax ha, and yes
@Gordon congrats, you have discovered the only macro in PHP that does not exist ...
4
 
@JoeWatkins not so sure about that :)
 
@Jeeves You OK man? That kinda took a while...
 
@JoeWatkins Does it count if I'm a child mentally? - Jokes aside, sounds like a great initiative.
 
Anonymous
Isn't he supposed to unpin the other one?
 
Yeh that's always been semi-reliable at best
 
Anonymous
8:22 AM
ah
 
Guess who wrote that bit
 
Anonymous
poooooHaaaa
 
I'll give you a clue: their name rhymes with piss shite.
 
Anonymous
lol
 
@Epodax I wanted to do it for a while, I found buried deep in the gov website yesterday that there are grants available for getting such things off the ground, which was the only thing stopping me ...
 
that's just the len
 
@Gordon that's two macros then though
 
I said len ... I meant length ... same word in world of c ...
 
well, I guess then: congratulations to myself >.<
 
there's no macro #define ZSTRL(s) ZSTR_VAL(s), ZSTR_LEN(s) @Gordon
but what do you need that for? @Gordon
 
8:26 AM
I can guess why he needs it ... it's because PHP 5 ..
 
to pass that to functions that require the val and the length
 
@DaveRandom uh … so rhyming with "Chris Wright"?
 
(can't just accept zend_string*)
 
@Gordon rewrite the functions to accept zend_string*?
 
hmm, snprintf?
 
8:28 AM
ah
 
@Gordon but snprintf needs first len, then val?
 
that's true
 
now that you mention it :D
 
:-P
 
I think I am getting the hang for this. slowly, but I do. Is this how it's like to code C: try to implement the simplest thing possible. write some naive code. compile. get tons of errors. start googling for errors and macros. add macros until no more errors. compile. run. segfault. repeat.
 
8:32 AM
you don't stay naive forever
 
most C devs I know are weird people. i guess weird comes after naive.
 
thanks
 
:D
 
@Gordon sitting in c lesson at university :D kindy weired langugage and weired people over here :D
 
@traxstar what?
@Traxstar what u told???
 
8:37 AM
u asked something..
 
i can't understand ...
sorry what u asked?
 
u asked for help
and i want details for your problem
 
you are wasting the worlds resources by doing that ...
 
@JoeWatkins me ?
 
Spot on @DaveRandom, cheers for the feedback
 
8:42 AM
@Traxstar ...hmmm ok
 
@Traxstar yes, you.
 
@ziGi the worst is the fact that objects that pass type checks in Java can be null.
 
@Sean no worries. I always feel kinda crappy about it like I'm saying "no, not good enough" but that's not how it's meant
that's just my thing I guess
 
@DaveRandom :P Direct is best.
 
Oh well in that case you SUCK, fixitfixitfixitfixitfixitfixitfixit
:-P
 
8:48 AM
Hahahah. Can never unhear that in PeeHee's voice
 
I'm a fan of calling a spade a spade ...
having feelings about code is ridiculous
totally unrelated to anything, but has anyone got big trees in their garden ?
 
@JoeWatkins my moms got one. She's hoping to move house before it needs chopping down.
It's right next to a telephone pole, and the wires kind of go through the tree......it's going to be a nightmare when it needs to be got rid of.
 
there are several, very large and very leafy trees, they are covering everything in leaves, three times yesterday I raked up all the leaves ... I just dunno what to do with them all, am I allowed to burn them, or should I take them somewhere ... also how long can I leave it before grass dies ?
any answers to any of that are useful, so long as it doesn't involve raking the garden three times a day
 
@JoeWatkins used to
 
https://www.iwight.com/Residents/Environmental-Health/Environmental-Protection-Pollution/Faqs?id=2167

There are no “bonfire bylaws” on the Isle of Wight so there are no restrictions to the time of the day that you can burn. However, if you cause a nuisance to your neighbours then action could be taken against you.
If you are going to burn then:
• Locate the bonfire away from your neighbour’s property.
• Burn only dry waste.
 
8:57 AM
oh wow
 
You probably need to pile them up to let them dry, then start a bonfire with some dry wood.
And then once the fire is going, add the dry leaves a chunk at a time.
 
they are mostly dry coming down, the ones from two days ago are now bone dry
 
Trying to burn them when wet, or trying to burn them before the fire is hot, may produce quite a bit of smoke.
Best time to start a bonfire is probably early afternoon......people won't be eating, and a lot of people won't even be at home.
 
right, so I could just start a fire with some lumpwood, the stuff that people burn inside (no smoke) right ?
 
@Danack Aw, you were talking about leaves, not neighbours
 
8:58 AM
First one, then maybe the other.
@JoeWatkins yeah - if you really wanted to step up your "burning stuff" game - one of these would be good:
 
I hear old tyres can really get a fire going
 
I like, it feels like I should have some fire kit, if fire is going to be a thing ...
 
Keeps all the heat in one place, stops all the ash from going everywhere, makes a nice bit of circulation of air, which limits how much smoke is produced.
 
also you could turn it into a proper furnace, it has holes ...
 
9:01 AM
fyi when I was growing up, I lived in a small village in Essex.....one of my friends had like 3 acres of land. His dad bought a small flamethrower to be able to light the bonfires he had to make to clear his land of scrub each year.
 
a long enough pipe welded in, and a hairdrier on the other end (or two), and you have a furnace ... I've melted soft metals that way ... and two hair driers ...
 
Plenty of youtube hits for "DIY blast furnace"
 
@JoeWatkins grass is pretty robust but don't leave it more than a couple of days if poss
 
it's actually nearly all leaves, getting some grass from the raking where the mower left it, but it's like 99% leaf matter and sticks ...
so how often do I need to do it, keeping the grass alive ?
 
@JoeWatkins whether you are allowed is irrelevant, you shouldn't do it because it's horrifyingly polluting (srsly, wet leaves have one of the worst CO/CO2 ratios from a burn of anything you can think of) and entirely unnecessary because you can literally just take them to the nearest copse of trees and leave them there - and they will actually do the wildlife a favour there.
 
Anonymous
9:04 AM
@JoeWatkins BIG Compost bin :D
 
they are mostly dry when coming down (that's why they are falling down), and within two days are absolutely bone dry
there's too much of it for a bin
I would have to empty any bin that I can get in my car daily
 
@JoeWatkins just try not to let any individual blade of grass be without direct sunlight for more than, say, 3 days
grass sort of hibernates over the winter anyway (you'll note that it stays there but doesn't grow)
 
burning if it's totally dry is fine, right ?
 
If you really must but it's still not awesome when all you are doing avoiding putting it in a bin bag :-(
 
there's so much of it
 
9:06 AM
if you just fill up bin bags and throw a couple in the car every time you go anywhere it won't be too bad
 
I literally spent hours in the garden yesterday, and there's at least as much already
 
@JoeWatkins it's mostly air though
@JoeWatkins yeh I do know the feeling
it's what I imagine working in a mail sorting office to be like
it just never stops
 
it really doesn't, I may have them trimmed down a bit ... if this goes on for weeks it will be too much for any reasonable person
this won't go on for weeks, right ?
it's just season change, right ?
 
depends what kind of trees you have
 
I liked them when they were all leafy, and didn't think about what happened to all those leaves, just didn't occur that I would eventually be picking all that shit up ...
I dunno, brown, with green bits ...
does that help ?
 
9:13 AM
:-P
£40
got to be worth it
 
I have one of those, it really sucks
 
It both sucks and blows
 
it's better at blowing actually ...
only used the thing once, it really is the loudest, and worst tool I ever used ...
 
You clearly never owned a dustbuster
 
omg
exactly like that, the most frustrating experience, going over and over the same leaf ...
you could easily just bend down and pick up the leaf, quieter, with more precision, with less effort ...
well I got pix, but apparently none of my usb cables are real usb cables anymore ...
 
9:19 AM
@JoeWatkins I'm a bit confused now that I haven't touched the phpdbg-docs in a year … What exactly do I still need to touch on…
I do not really remember what I planned on …
 
we were thinking of a kind of tutorial like format
so we started with break and had a little example session, we just need to make similar examples for as much of the functionality as possible, I think ...
 
yeah, but I do not remember what's missing actually
 
what we have now was like a minimum viable thing ...
for mvp, nothing, other than review/reform content ...
 
yeah… I'm not sure what needs expansion right now
@JoeWatkins mvp?
 
minimum viable product ... I hate language like that ... I'm sorry ...
 
9:21 AM
Oh my, spot the /nice/ typo:

$x = stream_context_create([
"ssl" => [
"local_cert" >= __DIR__."/ssld.pem",
"ciphers" => "HIGH",
]
]);
 
So, what can I actually do there right now? @JoeWatkins
 
if you want to leave me to finish reviewing the actual content, then a useful thing would be being able to turn it into a browsable thing ... so that we can work on linking and stuff
or, you can look at the next command you want to write up ... up to you ...
 
@m6w6 I see nothing?
 
@m6w6 ugh
 
I don't, but don't feel silly saying that now ... I got nothing
 
9:23 AM
@bwoebi >=
 
@DaveRandom lol
I wasn't searching for parser errors^^
 
@bwoebi it isn't one :-/
Can we adopt [k] = v syntax and deprecate => please?
 
@DaveRandom oh, :-P
 
that would solve the arrow functions problem as well
 
9:24 AM
@m6w6 lol, nice.
 
that's already valid
 
This is not a parse error
 
@DaveRandom then we'll have the same problem with arrow funcs though
 
@JoeWatkins not as an array key though
 
array(
   $b = "thing"
)
valid
 
9:25 AM
@DaveRandom it is
list dereferencing
 
oh god damn it
{$k} = $v?
 
don't be silly
 
yeh I know, sorry :-/
 
10:00 AM
Did I dream it or was someone here asking about opinions on interface level constants a short while ago?
 
@lei why u ask?
 
Meh I know we are php in here but some offtopic question: I need a notebook with a DVD player to play movies on or connect it to a beamer. That's 90% of the main use. Budget 800 dollarz : I saw this one: shop.bechtle.nl/nl/product/… ( I know the text is in dutch but the specs are in english ;) ) I don't think I can get better for that money?
 
DVD in 2016 ? this is not serious
 
@kirugan Because +1
 
@kirugan I know.. but it is.
 
10:03 AM
@Duikboot ebay
 
sara said something about abstract constants
 
Need a new one :D (It's not for me )
 
I think that's the last mention of interface constants I remember, in that conversation
 
I just need to get the best notebook with a 'dvd' player for 800 dollarz which represents ... 700 euroz.
Yez from now on I'll ad az much z's az is canin my sentecez
 
@JoeWatkins maybe it was on twitter then, feels kind of overkill to have abstract getters for constant values
 
10:05 AM
yes, on the twitter it was
 
why would anyone need getters for constants anyway
 
yeah I can't remember the whole idea, or justification for it ...
 
morning2
 
it must be difficult when you are sara, or someone of that stature ... all ideas are good, to at least 100 people ... they may not understand the idea ...
then everything looks good ... if you don't adjust for bias ...
maybe sara does, not questioning that, but just trying to determine if an idea is good or not is more complex whatever ...
'nin
 
@JoeWatkins Not much of a justification presented: twitter.com/SaraMG/status/781335986223493121
 
10:11 AM
this is what I remember seeing
I'll be honest, I don't get it ...
 
Yea that's nasty, abstract is nasty
Wait, why does it need a getter...
 
na-a-a-a-a-sty
 
My justification is to remove the need for the getter entirely
but require an implementer of an interface to have the constant
 
I think it's a kind of backward way of making the constant part of the interface by making it part of the abstract ... I'm not sure why it looks like that, or what was happening when it looked like a solution to something ...
 
Loses some type info, but gains not needing a bunch of methods that return constant values
 
10:20 AM
somehow, in my head, they are not constants
 
+1 for methods
 
a constant with no defined value, which is what you have made in the interface, is somehow really wrong
 
You can override constants in descendant classes, so we're not introducing anything new
Also I'm a selfish micro-performance-gain fetishist
 
you can't really point at a bad thing, and say "look, my justification is this bad thing" ...
I'm always wrong about these things ...
 
No, you're right, it's a bad argument, I'm glad it doesn't sway you :)
 
10:25 AM
dynamic constant access is magic
 
We do not need support for that in form of abstract consts…
 
@JoeWatkins wat
In my book those are called read-only properties
 
it really happened
 
@bwoebi It's not dynamic.
 
10:28 AM
@Leigh it is. from the perspective of the parents class
The constant is dynamically bound at binding time
 
the more evolved the object model becomes, the more difficult it is to evolve, the more difficult it is to do the already hard stuff ... I think at this point, anything like this, needs exceptionally good justification ...
 
(as opposed to compile time)
 
we should concentrate on hard stuff for a bit, and see where that gets us ...
I don't want to listen to talk of JIT's and generics for the next 5 years, it's boring to talk about it now ...
someone do it ... go ...
 
@JoeWatkins Dmitry is doing JIT right now
 
hard stuff ... but that requires doing like actual work
 
10:34 AM
@bwoebi you're saying class constants are not added to the class definition at compile tme?
 
it will be actual work, there is no getting away from it ...
 
@Leigh class constants are, static::MY_CONSTANT access is only bindable at binding time
 
@bwoebi I was talking about interfaces requiring an implementing class to implement a const in it's definition, not about how it is accessed.
 
11 mins ago, by bwoebi
dynamic constant access is magic
@Leigh ^ I was talking about access though … and not replying to you there
 
When PHPStorm asks for a "Alternate Configuration File" for testing with PHPUnit, what configuration file is it referring to?
 
10:47 AM
what is an php storm, it sounds scary ?
 
@Sean apparently people like to use different phpunit config files like one for dev, and one for Use dist - like phpunit.xml.dist.
I have never understood why.
 
This is on a project level. I can either use a globally defined configuration file (wat?) or an alternate version, is just the phpunit.xml file?
 
Oh, I guess it's so you can have a local phpunit settings file that only runs the stuff you're working on. And if that file isn't under source control, there's no chance of accidentally checking in a config file that has been set to a single developers needs.
@Sean yes, just the phpunit.xml file - I think.
 
Ah, turns out I'm actually dumb.
What I thought was global is project scope. You're right
 
VINDICATION
 
10:56 AM
Woo, code coverage is working.
 

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