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@Danack Nope, I'm not aware of such a thing. Unless you mean actually registering a sigalarm handler
@FlorianMargaine Goddamnit
np - I don't think that's what he meant.
@FlorianMargaine Another day, another TLS vulnerability
Sep 7 '13 at 22:36, by Danack
One time pad or gtfo.
12:04
I blame it on rails
hehe
Used to be rails vulnerabilities every other day, now they switched to TLS
And I was looking for something else, but I found:
May 9 '14 at 17:11, by Dan Lugg
user image
@Danack You missed the part of the image where there's a tiny 1mm nail in the ground he's about to swing for
12:07
A tiny screw more like.
You still haven't written your blog post
Hi, can i ask a little confusion in mysql query here?
@Danack And when it hits the screw, the head of the hammer will fall off ;)
@king4aol What is it
12:12
HI stephen, Actually i have a table `categories` (`cat_id`,`title`,`bst_id`,`cat_parent_id`) here bst is 'business sub type' which comes from another table now i have `bst_id` like 10 but there are also some categories which have there own child like cat_id 1 have a child cat_id 2 and cat_id 2 has value 1 in cat_parent_id and bst_id 0 as it is categories child. I just want to retrieve all childs of a bst and categories child i tried this query but not working,
SELECT DISTINCT c.`title` FROM `categories` c
and i also tried OR in INNER JOIN, But does not work !
@king4aol is it a small DB can you send a pastie.org of an SQL dump
Unfortunately it is about 20mb ,should i send?
ahh nooo
so any suggestions :(
@Danack from an extension? overloading zend_execute_ex and maintaining your own counter…?!
@NikiC Yeah… always buy your RAM separately… That's the single most expensive component which hasn't any of its price justified… in an iMac
12:22
@bwoebi yeah....that does appear to be one way, but seems a little scary. That's the way pecl.php.net/package/memtrack does it.
Anonymous
so php is not uploading files to the server. Instead I get 500 internal server error from nginx, and nginx log says, permission denied in /var/cache/nginx/tmp.. chown/chmod does not seem to change anything. anyone had this problem problem before?
@samaYo I think you need permissions above the directory....let me see.
cash?
Is that meant to be cache?
Anonymous
yeah lol
@Danack you need +x on every directory up to root
12:25
Either that, or speeling the directory correctly.....
@Danack not sure what you'd do then… you also could hook in at pass_two() and insert your own opcode at each n steps… yeah. no.
@Danack let's speel :P
@NikiC yeah the wiki.php.net/rfc/php7timeline rfc wasn't really a good one, because it was done before we had the RMs officially (s)elected and it used improper/confusing terms in the timeline (had no mention of alpha/beta schedule, if you take the RC date of jun16 seriously then it was something unfeasible to meet when the RFC was announced but my concerns was shrugged of as RC can mean beta/RC but now people expect an RC in june)
Which June?
told Kalle that after the voting on RMs is closed we should announce the "official" timeline for php7
this june
12:28
;-)
@Tyrael yeah, it just took too long until we've finally selected RMs.
@Tyrael You mean real_timeline right :P
@Tyrael when are you going to formally close this unanimous vote?
@bwoebi it sucked that nobody but Kalle volunteered
then when he started to act as an RM Pierre brought up that he should be replaced with ab
@king4aol sorry had a phone call
12:29
literally stepping up at the last possible moment
(and then Pierre acting as it was a consensus that Anatol replaced Kalle)
@king4aol have your tried breaking you query up in to smaller parts and seeing what is returning the invalid resutls
@Tyrael (internals is sometimes mindblowing…)
nah, it isn't internals particularly just a couple of people
@Danack That's Zeev's hammer, with which he strikes down all the heathens who lack the PHP vision, right?
I mean you can't blame internals for Lester or Pierre
12:35
@Tyrael btw I think it would be a good idea to do what was done before, and move all the draft/open RFCs to 'Inactive' as there's a large number of them open.....of which I believe 17 are from one person...
@Danack any reason why you tell me instead of doing it yourself?
just curious if this is a political problem or technical
I think someone who has not contributed that much to the PHP project doing it might start a shitstorm.
And discussing it on the list would probably also not be a productive use of people's time.
Quick question: Should we favor index.html over index.php?
@TechWisdom No.....you should favour neither. It's better to not have URLs linked to any underlying technology, so it should just be /index or just '/'.
@TechWisdom O>o
12:43
I have a decision to make. Client & Server side are completely separated. I can make my index with .html or .php extension
this is actually a html page
woops
Anonymous
TIL: SSD is basically a silent hard disk with little more speed and nothing more :/
but .php gives me better power to use configuration variables
@samaYo A lot more speed...
@Jay No, you set how long you tell them to last for or the user deletes their cookies.
12:44
@samaYo And shorter lifespan
Anonymous
ah that too @Machavity
Jimbo, were you talking to me?
@TechWisdom what @Danack said.
@samaYo what did you think an ssd was before today?
Anonymous
RAM
12:46
@gor
@tec
Anonymous
@Gordon
@gordon @Danack, haha, what do you mean by /index or just /?
Anonymous
So, now ssd is out I have to decide what's more important. processor vs ram vs ghz
I have an index, and the htaccess redirecting to it
12:47
@samaYo you do want an ssd
and wonder whether to make this page .php or .html in aspect of performance
@samaYo SSD is the first best upgrade you can make
@samaYo They're actually very similar in how they work. Flash RAM is what makes up a SSD but RAM requires a constant power source
@samaYo This is meant to be a light-ish computer for doing work on isn't it?
the URI is /
but the question is about the file itself
which is being retrieve to the endpoint user
I made some bench marking with chrome, and actually sow when the index file was with .html extension the time of retrieval was in avg: 85ms
and with .html extension: avg of 30ms
but this is on a virtual box env
12:50
wow
You are really benchmarking extensions of files??
Anonymous
@Danack Yes! well, sort of. I need to open two VMs, PHPStorm, Firefox, Putty all at once and not have to hear the fan noise, or without overheating the laptop. / cc @Machavity @Jimbo
if its about performance, disable AllowOverride in your apache conf and put the htaccess rules in the global apache conf
@samaYo PHPStorm is RAM heavy in any decent sized projects
@Jimbo wat?
@PeeHaa, it's not about file extensions, but about the fact that php make a longer trip due to its code
12:52
So what?
@Danack PHPStorm uses a lot of ram in any decent sized projects - I had to up the watches count because this project has 5M+ LoC
Anonymous
can 8gb ram corei7 dual core laptop handle that? @Jimbo
That is not going to be the bottleneck in your application
longer time to the index file to come back to the user
Unless you are doing something very stupid
12:53
@samaYo The things you need in order are i) a decent SSD, i.e. not a cheap one that might fail with 2 years ii) a decent amount of ram I find I am limited by only having 8GB. The CPU speed will almost not matter at all, unless you're having to do load testing.
@samaYo Sure, with a 512 SSD that's good
but index is really important, all of the clients are there
so every ms is important
lol
@Jimbo That is many lines of code.
@TechWisdom No it is not
12:53
@Danack All of it procedural stuffed in classes :D
People don't see any difference when you are talking about ms
ok thanks
so no problem to keep using PHP?
I would look at it from another way. Is it a simple static page use html does it contain logic use php
Anonymous
@Danack how can you tell a good from bad SSD? all laptops seem to just tell the size of the ssd and not much else.
minor things like domain prefix of local / prod
12:55
Also note that you can always put a proxy in front of the thing which makes more sense @TechWisdom
@Tyrael Who expects an RC in june? I don't
what do you mean by proxy? how can it help me? do you mean with speed?
Which is easy with nginx.org
Anonymous
@Jimbo why? if ssd is basically a hard disk, I could cope with 128gb and use an external hard drive to store movies and such..
I think everyone went into this expecting the release to be delayed by a couple months ^^
12:56
I will read about it
@PeeHaa do you mean proxy will help me load balancing?
@samaYo If you want to be lugging an external hard drive around with you fine... much easier to just go for the 512 SSD in a laptop without juggling things around
@TechWisdom Different things
@samaYo I don't know, I'd have to do some research, but the Intel ones have been continually reliable I believe. And when the description of a laptop doesn't include the manufacturer of the SSD, that's usually a bad sign.
cause I have never used proxy
Do you know what caching is?
12:57
yes
memcache and default in mongodb
so proxy caches things?
Can do so
static pages?
You can put nginx in front of apache to cache responses
Good afternoon
how can it know when do the pages have new data to cache?
@NikiC yeah, somehow… but not more than that couple I strongly hope ^^
@PeeHaa, haha nice, I read it
so, if the index page is heavily changed, no any advantage of using proxy=cache?
Anyway, I will research this topic @PeeHaa. Thanks a lot for focusing on the important things!
Anonymous
I've got my eyes on this one. digitec.ch/en/s1/product/… never mind the 13" screen (I have a 22" monitor), but apart from that ... imho I think it's ok. what do you think? @Danack @Jimbo
Oh, Dell.
@TechWisdom Did you do an actual benchmark of your site instead of zooming in into specific parts first?
Anonymous
13:03
not bad for a noob programming by a noob heh..
No, I didn't. Just looking in the dev of chrome
@samaYo I don't know anything about specific components - but 8GB ram would be slightly limiting. It's the only thing that really gets in the way on my laptop.
@samaYo Absolutely not. Plus, it's over a grand in UK £. You can get a macbook air for the same price, with 8GB RAM, 2.2GHz i7 (up to 3.2Ghz turboboost), 256GB SSD... and you'd have much greater re-sell value (they hold a lot)
How do you offer me to do a real benchmark?
@PeeHaa, I forgot to tag
Anonymous
13:05
@Danack maybe you are doing something beyond the average php developer does.
wow great! thanks a lot @PeeHaa!
Also, @samaYo - 8GB RAM will let you run one VM without worrying two much about resources, but any more than that wouldn't be feasible
@samaYo I have 8 gigs in my thinkpad and when i run my vagrant vm, firefox, chrome and phpstorm I am already approaching the limit
Have 16 GB if you want to live comfortably… have 32 GB if you never want to care about RAM limits anymore… @samaYo
Another issue I have: MonogoDB mentioned their db take care for caching. Does it mean we should give up on chache at all? Not using memcache for example? Or still we should use the combination of them?
13:09
@samaYo As Jimbo said, it's the running multiple VMs that gets tricky with 8GB. It's possible, just requires tweaking of config and accepting that those VMs can't load too much data. Though if it's user upgradeable, you could just get 8 to start with and upgrade if it's actually a problem.
hi guys
@gordon
So you prefer 16GB?
can you elaborate about: "if its about performance, disable AllowOverride in your apache conf and put the htaccess rules in the global apache conf"
@John Hi!
13:10
@TechWisdom if you use mongodb you will have other problems than caching ;)
haha like what?
Anonymous
@Jimbo @Gordon well, I can't find an alternative. I don't want to use mac, as It would require me a lot of time to get used to it and setup everything from scratch.
I am using resize class github.com/gavmck/resize/blob/master/php/lib/resize-class.php to resize my image
but the problem is if image is big like 2+ MB
then its taking time to crop
any suggestion to reduce this time
I am using Doctrine ODM, and it's great, I am not thinking about mappings at all. No ORM waster time at all, @Gordon
oh, now I see you sent a link
I'll take a look
Anonymous
@Danack yeah, that's a great tip, since ram can be easily upgraded. I will start of with 8gb and see what happens after that.
13:12
@John Try to use more ram? Just an idea
system is already upgraded and again asking client to increase is not possible :(
@TechWisdom If you use Doctrine in a project would there still be a need for an RDBMS like MySQL
Anonymous
@Gordon what's your thinkpad model? I wanna take a look and see how it compares to the dell xps
@StephenWolfe, really? Now I feel no need for RDBMS
can you give examples?
@TechWisdom no i am asking what do you use
13:15
@NikiC If only fatals had been converted and we'd be avoiding some of this mess.
OK, so I read a lot, and no need for antoher thing at all!
And I came from MySQL and Oracle
take a look at Foursquare
@TechWisdom I want to build a project using Doctrine, but I dont know much about it. Is it used instead of MySQL
Mongo DB itself is instead of MySQL
You don't have to use Doctrine in order to use Mongo
It's only a great ODM
which maps your objects to collections (=tables)
and gives you the option to forget about serializing things to db
or from it
okay maybe i need to do some small tutorials on when to use it and why and how.
you say you did a lot of reading on it. Anything you can reccomend
Did you use mysql before with any ORM?
I did, and found out several things I can recomend
13:18
@TechWisdom no
OK, so if you have an object, in RDBMS system, it's really not easy to store it immediately
@TechWisdom basically I want to build a project using ORM and I am using zend2 and it looks like the recommendation is doctrine
oh I see, Doctrine have both RDBMS ORM and both MongoDB ODM
@TechWisdom when people talk about storing objects in a database what do they mean?
ODM is like ORM but for non rational dbs
13:19
:/
@NikiC Don't let good become the enemy of great.
have you every stored data to my sql?
if so, you have stored it with INSERT INTO statement
13:21
but in OOP you have objects, with state (variables) and behavior (methods)
what server side language do you have experience with?
@LeviMorrison If only fatals had been converted, we'd still be left with an even bigger mess ;)
Like, where you could just silently ignore typehints
so you made some class and instances?
13:22
Hello dear
please help me
so in RDBMS you had to map each local variable of the instance into the table
into a specific field
which was predefined
/me hates ORMs
with NoSQL as Mongodb, you can actually save the whole object
13:23
i want to use stored procedure in wordpress
@NikiC (that sounds like a good idea (hihihi))
@TechWisdom so like {'id'=>1}
without any predefined schemes
@PeeHaa, me too haha
yes @StephenWolfe
@NikiC No, that was the mess we were already in.
even more complicated things
13:24
@TechWisdom yeah i have got that far in my learning :D
Give me any reference site url
like hashes or like they called in PHP: associative arrays
haha :)
in Monogodb it's called subdocuments
So this is the Document DB
that's true!
where you store a whole array
13:26
that's right
but then how do you query it?
you have several ways
you can do it in the shell of mongodb
this is actually javascript
but if u are using PHP or any lang, you have dedicated drivers
to make really easy calls
@samaYo x220
@TechWisdom BRB phone call
MongoSingleton::getDb()->users->findOne(array('accessKey' => $accessKey));
sure
13:28
@LeviMorrison worse is better
@TechWisdom Goodbye sane ways to unit test your application :P
haha thanks a lot @PeeHaa
You helped me a lot :)
@TechWisdom not sure this is a valid argument. If the only aim is to be able to save objects without mapping, you could also use an object database?
Anonymous
@Gordon thanks but a bit old imho, any newer version you can recommend? below $1600?
@samaYo x240 :P
13:31
@LeviMorrison Yes. That's the bigger mess I was referring to
@Gordon, interesting topic, and I would say yes
these are not new ideas, and have been developed in the past
another advantage of mongodb is the scalling out ability @Gordon
which is really hard and almost impossible in RDBMS
due to transactions and locks
they are mainly scale up
@TechWisdom Must... resist... the.. urge... to... link... to.. the... mongowebscale... video
haha it's great you link those things here for us to read @PeeHAa
feel free to
hahaha that's true
so how serious is the data loss issue you have mentioned?
Anonymous
13:35
@Gordon thanks to you, I found out about the X1 Carbon
@NikiC me neither, but I already seen that date in blogposts
Considering I don't use mongo not that much :P
haha I hope so, I made a serious decision with moving to mongodb
@Tyrael oh god. It's out already. Now we have to skip a version because confusion!
lol
13:36
which is not with regret
this joke starting to get old
@Tyrael It really really really isn't.
PHP 9, EXPECT RC STATUS IN APRIL 2016
@samaYo the x1 carbon looks fancy but it doesnt have a decent docking station. does it have a matte display by now? the first versions didnt.
13:38
@DanLugg "There's no such thing as old jokes. To a newborn, every joke (every article) is a world premiere."
@Tyrael I see what you did thar.
@Tyrael There's also blog posts about how PHP 7 has a JIT. People blog all kinds of crap, especially if the blog is called PHPclasses
@PeeHaa, do you FED too?
I still think it is better than the "whre iz my unciode?!?!"
@TechWisdom: stackoverflow runs on SQL server, there are projects that RDBMS's can't handle because of the scaling issues, but far fewer than you would think
13:40
that's tru @Joeri, but I am also looking about developing speed
@NikiC yet putting up an official rfc then accepting it with an impossible RC date (even after the problem was pointed out) is asking for problems
but yeah, not the end of the world
my prediction and experience: it will be faster at first because you lack a schema, and it will be slower after a while, because you lack a schema
@NikiC 3v4l.org/dIJZq#vphp7@20150501 Can we please fix that ugly notice with __get in combination with a *PREFER*_BY_REF?
but I think it was a bad way to get consensus for an early php7 release
that's an interseting argument @Joeri
foursquare are using Mongodb
they saying it is the only db they are using
maybe no scheme helps you to be flexible with a projects that is always changing
and with big data information
Anonymous
13:43
@Gordon don't think so. I checked the 2015 edition, it's way too costly ... going back to xps :)
a bit old but shows you the general problem when people use a nosql solution but they still have the sql mindset: sarahmei.com/blog/2013/11/11/why-you-should-never-use-mongodb
@Tyrael I think it's better that way. Else it'd probably have been delayed even more…
(and most problems are usually easier to solve with rdbms so theres that)
Thanks @Tyrael, but I think one has to adopt different mindset when using Nosql
this article is controversial
I did not quote the article, but mentioned how people tend to have a hard time with nosql solutions
13:45
@bwoebi feel free
looks like bug to me
because they don't want the cost of an rdbms but then try to get the same/similar features
Also @NikiC any idea why extract() is using prefer_by_ref at all?
and burn themselfs
which is imo the same thing that you just replied to me
@bwoebi because there are by-ref extraction modes probably
"Thanks @Tyrael, but I think one has to adopt different mindset when using Nosql"
13:45
@NikiC or rather… what's the purpose of PREFER_BY_REF at all since PHP 7?
@Tyrael, I see, that's true. so do you support Nosql?
is there any way to reduce the size of png and gif image?
@bwoebi for args that are either by-ref or not ^^
I think it has its place
people just tend to bandwagon
and then blame the technology
@NikiC that's not a reason. References inside an array are preserved in every case.
13:46
like what was happening with mongodb, nodejs and now docker
@TechWisdom: another mongodb downside is the lack of consistency when you scale out, and that only bites you when you are in a scaling crunch, which is the worst time to get bitten by it. Good discussion of it here: aphyr.com/posts/284-call-me-maybe-mongodb
pungent words
@NikiC yes, where does that have any use case?
@Joeri, that's right
13:47
@bwoebi they are preserved yes, but you couldn't create a new reference to an array element
You'd be violating by-value passing semantics if you did
to architect in mongodb makes you always ask yourself: "do I really need it to be fully consistent?"
if yes, so you better go with the normalization rules
@JoeriSebrechts aphyr.com is the go to place when comparing nosq solutions to pick one which suits your usecase. really detailed information and describing the common pitfalls
which can be applied with mongo
reference many and etc
@NikiC Anyway… extract() is doing an array fetch in zpp… so never accessing the zval at all…
if you don't have to be fully consistent, so you have lots of advantages with mongo
13:49
Personally I am more interested in column-oriented in-memory RDBMS's like HANA and VoltDB than the eventually-consistent NoSQL systems. The performance of NoSQL, but the benefits of ACID.
@bwoebi so?
@JoeriSebrechts, that's really interesting
@TechWisdom: that's true, but any real-world app will have some parts of the codebase where it needs to be fully consistent. That's why I would always advocate putting the core in an RDBMS and using an eventually consistent system for the parts that need to be "web-scale"
I'll take a look at them
@NikiC I see no reason for it to use prefer_ref at all?
13:51
@bwoebi As I already said, it's creating new references into the array
For that it modifies the array
To modify the array it needs a reference to the array
@JoeriSebrechts interesting!
I have searched a lot about combination between RDBMS and Nosql. The problem seems to be double development / two technologies which bring x2 bugs
@NikiC ... oh.
got it.
@bwoebi Any idea why this code may be present? lxr.php.net/xref/PHP_TRUNK/Zend/zend_execute.c#607
@JoeriSebrechts, when the parts of the codebase are fully consistent (which you absolutely right - happens a lot) you can use reference in mongodb
or do you talking about the problems it brings with scaling out
which I must admit - havn't yet used
@TechWisdom: i'm talking about things like reads not returning data which was just written because of inconsistencies between nodes, etc... like in the aphyr link i mentioned
13:55
@NikiC no, looks totally useless… copying back and forth without affecting refcount…
It hides the argument from the stack trace
But I don't know why
I dropped it and it didn't look like anything bad was gonna happen
I see, that's can be a huge problem if so. I'll read this link, I saved it
@TechWisdom: voltdb is by the guy who did postgres and vertica. There's a presentation he gave "everything you learned in RDBMS class is wrong" that explains why he believes in column-oriented in-memory RDBMS systems as the future of databases, but the video seems to be down right now: slideshot.epfl.ch/play/suri_stonebraker
@NikiC oh, while throwing the error?
@TechWisdom ahh I got to go do some more work. Thanks for the info maybe see you around
13:57
I saved it and would look when it up again. @JoeriSebrechts Can you explain what brought you to use these dbs?
@StephenWolfe, sure man, see you later!
@bwoebi yes
@NikiC but… stacktrace isn't saved there?
@bwoebi how d'you mean?
or is it in exception ctor?
yes
13:59
okay.
Yeah, makes no sense to me to hide it there.
@JoeriSebrechts, also- is this a full competitor to RDBMS? No need of combination when used?

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