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15:01
@peter true...
for fuck sake
this really is a fucking banana republic
but my intentions are for the decoratable class to be mostly for giving me the specific set of logic I need and that's all
IMO I don't like typing out the call to the decoratable class, then inserting it into the decorator
@tereško it's a mid-end clothing store?
instantiate the decoratable, and then turn around and pass it to the decorator is not as DRY (i'd rather insert a call to a trait in the decoratable class)
posted on March 12, 2015 by kbironneau

/* by Frankie */

user895378
15:03
@ircmaxell hehe the unintended irony is strong with this one
@rdlowrey his hypocracy knows no bounds
I'm sure it's fine, it really just depends on what you're using it for.
@ircmaxell well .. remember when last last week I was bitching about how the did not ship me my monitor even though on home page it was said that they can deliver deliver it even earlier
@peter Thanks!
Patterns are a solution looking for a problem. Until you actually know what the problem is, it's hard to tell what's right.
15:05
today I learned that the I wont get it even this week
and I know it only because I called them
It would also allow for me to add a trait/interface for validation from another source, like Laravel 5's "ValidatesWhenResolvedTrait"
Also, i've seen some cases where the patterns add a complexity that makes it hard to maintain later on.
right
but I like the readability of this:
$myHouse = new LakeHouse();
$myHouse->paint("blue");
$myHouse->bonusMethod();
versus....
$myHouse = new LakeHouse();
$myDecoratedHouse = new HouseDecorator($myHouse)....
or
@tereško oh no?
$myHouse = HouseDecorator(new $myHouse)...
15:07
@tereško that's not good
Laravel provides some really nice dependency injection tactics you could take advantage of instead.
I am not even mad anymore , the only emotion that I get is "sad"
@tereško Aren't those the only 2 emotions you have?
Hey, Zeev's STH proposal went up for a vote. Let's see how it's going
user image
2
15:11
yo, lol
@marcio !!
@DavidGraham hey man, still doing interior design?
I've simplified and updated it gist.github.com/prograhammer/…
yes!
could you tell me what you think now?
look at the constructor in the Trait.....it's more "decorator like" now
ok, let's see
@DavidGraham why are you doing this?
I mean, what is your motivation
15:14
I hate every form input class I've used....
@Patrick I told him to try again later because yesterday we were having the great RFC war and no one was interested on design patterns
so I needed a solution that would let me create a bunch of server-side logic encapsulations and then wrap those in a decorator to do stuff
@DavidGraham coffee refill is on it's way :3
@DavidGraham form input class? what is that?
and, every once in a while (break the decorator pattern) and may need to "ping" the decorator from inside decoratable (like a form input may need to know what just happened to another form input to adjust logic)
handles all the server side filling of inputs (like calls a database repo to fill a drop down)
input cascading (I want country to affect state to affect city)
stuff like that
15:17
Now that sounds a bit like over-engineering...
@marcio Let me know once you have absorbed the code :-)
@DavidGraham (sure... multi tasking slow poke here, be patient)
lol!
@Patrick to me "over-engineering" means "you are sacrificing readability/simplicity"
I think I'm working to get better readability/simplicity here
by having the child do the work of setting up it's own decorator
simply by adding a trait
plus I get the bonus of being able to call the decorator from inside (I know, breaks the rule of the pattern)
@DavidGraham where is HouseDecoratorInterface?
(nevmind, it's not really necessary to know where it is)
You don't need to see that.....it's just all the added functionality a decorator will do once initialized
yeah
15:22
@DavidGraham, I know what you mean. I don't think you can solve this with just a decorator pattern.
Yeah, but typical composition involves abstract classes still to achieve stuff
or several calls to instantiate stuff and drop it into other stuff
I work with TYPO3 a lot. And it uses a Request handler to automatically create models for your controller actions. But that's a whole process with validation and database column mapping and everything.
Well, with this approach, I could just add a trait/interface from Laravel 5's "ValidatesWhenResolved" trait....
and now I can inject the decoratable (LakeHouse) right into the controller
has my input and is validated
assuming LakeHouse is really my form inputs
@peter What is TYPO3?
and BTW i'm part of that camp that hates ORMs
It's a PHP web CMS
15:26
@DavidGraham before I tell you if I find it useful, you really need this? gist.github.com/prograhammer/… a variation from decorator that depends on missing methods doesn't seem good :/
It is by no means a good example of anything
But it does get some things right.
@rdlowrey I'd definitely like to see streams go the way of GMP, call me when you're ready to get busy for 7.1 :)
@marcio The decorator needs some encapsulated logic from YOU (the decoratable classes you will supply over and over)
I'm using the decorator pattern to not "FIX" an old piece of code, but I'm using it with original intent
@DavidGraham I meant the __call part (click the link to see the highlighted code)
I want YOU to provide the core logic for these houses (a few required methods that return things) and I'LL do the rest in my decorator
Well, since the constructor uses a HouseDecoratorInterface dependency, this __call is really just convience
the HouseDecoratorInterface is your rules
you're safe, the __call shouldn't be scary
// How we would use it...
$myHouse = new LakeHouse();
$myHouse->paint("blue"); // method added by decorator
$myHouse->bonusMethod(); // method exists on decoratable (but is inhanced by communcation with decorator)
see how the Decorator doesn't even look like it's in the picture here?
I just call the target class and run!
15:32
@DavidGraham ah ok, if it's just a convenience then you should get rid of it otherwise it looks like it's a necessary implementation detail :)
Ah
well, maybe not convience completely sorry....
well, it's both...
Its for convenience yes, as I showed how we can use it......but it also lets me keep the HouseDecoratorInterface as the holder of the list of methods we can call
otherwise I'd have to list those in the trait and have each one call the decorator's equivalent method
No point in doing that
the __call allows me to do $myHouse->paint("blue")
oh wait....
I think I get what you are saying....
if the trait will always be paired with the use of the Decorator....why not just list the methods in the trait (just have the trait in turn call the decorator's method)....
but that's ugly
and I think __call gives good intention
Only drawback is it takes that away from the decoratable LakeHouse....but LakeHouse is supposed to be more of a peasant class
Only noble classes get the freedom of __call, you peasant classes just do what I tell you
(and you can star that!)
@DavidGraham this is usually solved with extends... but ok, I'll try not be too picky
I know
but I hate when people say use composition over inheritance and then use abstract extend with interfaces (you just told me not to "extend" LOL)
plus PHP is a single inheritance language
/me sighs
and also, why should inheritance get the less verbose calls
@ircmaxell care to elaborate on that sighs?
I'd like to use more composition, in a manner that looks less verbose like inheritance
user895378
15:42
@DavidGraham by "use abstract extend with interfaces" are you asserting that interface Foo extends Bar {} is somehow equivalent to class Foo extends Bar {}
user895378
?
user895378
Because they're completely different. Extending interfaces is in no way anathema to favoring composition over inheritance.
@DavidGraham Ok, try the following... how would your interior design survive in a language without __call? would it starve?
@marcio Can you give me a alternative to the way I'm doing it? Like just give me how I would call it....
as opposed to:
// How we would use it...
$myHouse = new LakeHouse();
$myHouse->paint("blue"); // method added by decorator
$myHouse->bonusMethod(); // method exists on decoratable (but is inhanced by communcation with decorator)
what would your way be here?
How would the typical Decorator Pattern survive in a language without __call? That's how you get to the methods on the decoratable, right?
I'm using the same __call, but reversing it from the inside
@DavidGraham the point is, you are doing a strange form of "inheritance" using __call on a trait, not all languages will give you all these artifices, so your design pattern already has a lot of requirements. You should try to overcome this ;)
(+ I'm trying not to repeat all the other points mentioned by the others)
15:48
I don't think it's inheritance though? It's loosely coulped in that I can swap out the trait with another trait for some decoratables that brings in more dependency injections into the constructor
I can have TownHouse use a different trait than Lake House (a trait that adds not only HouseDecoratorInterface injection but maybe some other injection as well too, IT GREW without LakeHouse growing)
or I can add more traits, more decoration horizontally
although I can't add the other traits with __call (I only get that once)
as you pointed out
I guess the __call represents that this is the "default" decorator
Honestly I don't know what I think fully yet @marcio Hence I thought I would expose it here on chat.
user895378
Scalar Type Declarations could currently withstand 5 consecutive no votes and still be passing.
user895378
(this is what I do when I need a 2-minute mental break from code: review current RFC status)
@DavidGraham well that's all the input I can give you now without become repetitive, good luck improving your idea ^^
@rdlowrey and the other proposal needs 50 votes :D
yeah, I'll have go and see what happens using abstracts or inheritance even
and decide
thanks @marcio You've made this chat worthy of stackoverflow IMHO
I wish I could give you points in here
@DavidGraham this chatty is very worthy, you just picked the wrong momentum yesterday ;)
15:58
ah gotcha
s/chatty/chat/
@marcio maybe the trait should just be a shortcut collaborator call... that I can use on classes I want to call on in a cleaner way (and not use on classes where I will just use $myHouse = LakeHouse(); $myHouse->collaborator->doAdditionalThing)
In other words the trait is just an additional thing for cases where 90% of the calls I don't want to repeat with ->collaborator
keeps calls clean
and I'll take away the "decorator" aspect and just have the constructor call some initialize class
I'll go back to standard delgation, but the trait will just be a shortcut for add __call and cleaner code in use
I mean the __call will be purely for convience (not required as you pointed out)
sigh....no more "interior decoration"
Now more like a facade
$LakeHouse->paint() looks like it has more functionality (but thats a facade in that I'm just using __call)
now I'm getting you right @marcio ?
16:14
@DavidGraham why not stop trying to create a pattern and instead solve the problem that you want solved?
^ that's not a bad idea
@Patrick because we live in a php age that is more bureaucratic than pragmatic
I should propose a "Context Sensitive Lester RFC" (mean joke)
8
> The bit I am more concerned about is the further dilution of the
docblock annotation as people will adopt type hints in place of the
already existing annotation and again we loose a lot more than we gain
:(
He really thinks type system and dock blocks should be related and the solution is to expand the dock block support.
Maybe a Trait can be an example of how you would use the required (from interface) method in a class. So you get the rules (interface) and then suggested use (trait). So the trait could tell you that your constructor should inject a dependency. Interfaces can't tell you that you need a dependency.
*** Interfaces can't tell you that you need a dependency. ***
*** A trait can be supplied for you to use, that will remind you to import in that dependancy ***
In other words, you are NOT restricted (like Inheritance) but your class is sort of anemic without its collaborator.
16:30
@marcio would it only ask questions like you're really unconfident in your statements?
16:42
@nikita2206 I think the body text would basically be "firebird firebird firebird?" over and over again
user1596138
Does curl with PHP suck?
Yes
user1596138
1/4 (identical) requests doesn't happen
@ircmaxell so... does the coercive STH RFC vote mean that the v5 vote is now extended to 25th or...? I realise v5 says explicitly that is what would happen in this situation but it seems like it's making it even messier, esp. in light of the direction in which this is going, and based on what Zeev said in response to the voting schedule of Bob's fallback RFC I don't think it's what he's expecting.
user1596138
16:47
It just sits at pending
@Jhawins That's unlikely to be cURL's fault
user1596138
@DaveRandom Well, it is.
@DaveRandom yes, it's extended until the 25th, unless Zeev withdraws his vote
user1596138
There's nothing else going on in the script, at all.
The only problem with cURL in PHP is it's API, it's not fundamentally broken in terms of functionality though
user1596138
16:48
It's just taking a painfully long time
@Jhawins Are you sure that it's not waiting for either the TCP connect or HTTP response?
user1596138
Oh it's waiting
user1596138
But same client can use curl from CLI and send identical requests and they return instantly.
@ircmaxell It would probably be worth saying that explicitly (or at least, reminding people who didn't read past the vote box in the RFC) that this is the case, or I suspect that there will be people declaring the votes null and void or some crap like that
user1596138
3/4 requests return "instantly" through PHP, the other 1/4 usually just don't happen.
16:50
It looks like you're finally on to a winner, would be best to try and avoid any potential further argy bargy over it
@Jhawins Seems likely that it's a problem at the other end, because of concurrent connects or concurrent session usage at the application layer or something like that
3 mins ago, by DaveRandom
The only problem with cURL in PHP is it's API, it's not fundamentally broken in terms of functionality though
People would have noticed by now
It could be a borked install on your server, what's your libcurl version?
@DaveRandom saying what explicitly
@Jhawins apart from anything else, you could trying switching to a PHP streams-based solution and seeing if that makes a difference. Are you using any funky stuff like curl_multi_*()?
Not that I discourage the use of Artax (or similar) but I just doubt it will solve the problem
user1596138
Actually it was curl... But it was only because I didn't notice the extra curl init I typed out.
user1596138
Which actually momentarily killed the server after ~60 requests
Too many unspecified variables, which libcurl version? built with which resolver? easy/multi?
16:56
@ircmaxell That the vote is now open until the 25th, mostly because of news.php.net/php.internals/84620
He's clearly under the impression that voting will end according to regular 2 week rules
@DaveRandom it will, if nobody does anything
it's clearly worded in the dual-mode RFC that voting will end when the other ends.
I know, I just don't think Zeev does because of what he said in that mail
@DaveRandom actually he's saying that he thinks the deadline for rfcs is tomorrow - he corrected himself in the next email.
@DaveRandom yes he does
posted on March 12, 2015 by kbironneau

/* by proudh0n */

@Danack Ahh OK that makes more sense
@rdlowrey Using dev-master and everything's working great so far. Will you merge #80 when you have a sec, just to stop the annoying death red bar :-)
user895378
@Jimbo done.
Thankyou lovely
user895378
One of my least favorite things about PHP: php.net/manual/en/internals2.memory.persistence.php
user895378
17:08
I think I'm going to disallow the use of the new SSL_CTX resource things with persistent streams.
Hmm Still trying to create a 'dummy'code' for setting up watermarks in PHP
The I have to creating something that will endup in creating a watermark form my image
@rdlowrey not having an issue with that.
anyone know what algo underlies sort(array $arr)?
It's just an exercise. Is there an easy way to display fast the image?
oh the things SO likes to remind me of dugan.io/s/rdlowrey_you_slay_me.png
@mikedugan I'd be surprised if it wasn't a quicksort.
Basically every sort function uses quicksort I think, pretty sure the manual says that as well
Hello, sorry for my htaccess question, but who knows may be you can help me? stackoverflow.com/questions/29016479/…
Suggestions where I should write my functionality to add the watermark itselve to the img.
@Duikboot isn't a watermark just another image?
Then why not something like
class Watermark implements Image {}
and then maybe a method like
overlayImage(Image $image, $x, $y)
or something like that
Some day I too will find out how to do the code markdown in the chat :D
17:41
@Hypn0tizeR For the record, using Apache as a proxy is a horrible thing to do, and using mod_rewrite as part of that is just unspeakably horrible
Also may be an XY problem, what are you actually trying to accomplish?
I have an URL example/something and I want to access everything within it by simply going to something
@Patrick put multiline text on text box and click the "fixed font" button on the right.
@Hypn0tizeR And presumably http://example/something is located on another server? Do you control the http://example/something website?
yup, I control both of them and set up the hosting as needed, the only thing I have to do is just to set it up to properly work :)
@Hypn0tizeR Then why not just create a DNS record that avoids all this proxy nonsense?
i.e. point the root A record for the something zone to the server in question, and set up the virtual host for something to serve the same directory as example/something as its docroot
In fact, your nomenclature for the example is confusing. Let's say you have two domains, source.com and proxy.com. You are saying that you have a website on http://source.com/proxy.com/* and you want to be able to simply write http://proxy.com/* in the browser. Is that correct @Hypn0tizeR?
17:50
Well, I have no roots as "something", everything is served as per URL, not directories.
yes
that's correct
Then you simply need to configure different virtual host containers to handle them
Ugh, not done that for a while :-P
Could you please answer to me how can this be achieved on question's page?
@Hypn0tizeR Not really without seeing your existing configuration. Do you already have any <VirtualHost> blocks configured or is everything just served through the default host?
yup, wait a minute
17:55
(worth noting that I've not configured Apache for a while and I might be a bit rusty)
I'll update my question with what I have in virtual host
While looking through vm_def code… Found some bug: 3v4l.org/V7ubh
Issue is that once the function ptr is cached it's never checked again…
I am actually in love with Florence Welch. Just throwing that out there.
@DaveRandom I glanced at that and thought you said @FlorianMargaine for a sec
Well that's a given, he's French
18:03
@DaveRandom Hey, I've updated the question with how virtual hosts are set.
@Hypn0tizeR ...but that seems to indicate that //something serves the same content as //example anyway? They both as the same directory configured as DocumentRoot...
Hi guys , I am trying to move away from phpunit for testing our API responses ( primarily json data ) . any suggestions ?
@DaveRandom Yup, PHP does all the stuff and use the same bootstrap file when accessing //example and //something.
@Hypn0tizeR So you use $_SERVER['HTTP_HOST'] to serve different content?
user924016
18:10
@PeeHaa lol ? =] did they take down the PeeHaa droplet?
@Hypn0tizeR : have you checked this ? httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_alias.html
@DavidGraham grabs popcorn... if you think the chat room wasn't very receptive, wait for the comments on your question.
@DaveRandom Well I'm really interested if there is a way to achieve this without changing anything in PHP. Because I'm not using HTTP_HOST to detect what content to show, but the first segment returned by REQUEST_URI
@Hypn0tizeR OK well I would argue that's the wrong way to do it (that you should modify PHP instead) but it does make it clear what you need to do if you are going to rewrite:
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} !=example [NC]
RewriteRule ^.*$ %{HTTP_HOST}/$0 [L]
You might need something else in there to stop it looping but all you really need to do is prepend %{HTTP_HOST}/ to the URI
And then route it to the PHP script
I'm going home but I'll be back on in a couple of hours
@DaveRandom Hm, got it, will let you know if that worked.
18:24
0
A: How do I avoid inheritance and still make it look as though I'm calling one class?

Jason McCrearyPHP 5.4 introduced Traits that could achieve extending a class with additional properties and methods without traditional inheritance. A contrived example: class Sedan { use CarTrait; } trait CarTrait { private $carToPaintOn; public function paint(){ // paint some ...

user924016
@PeeHaa lol =] wait I get it now.. it was the customer who was attacked not the droplet. Congrats man [= gj
@marcio Oh maann, enjoying the show at: stackoverflow.com/questions/29017200/…
@marcio gimme some of that popcorn!!
@DaveRandom <3
@marcio Look at the experience of those guys answering
Now are you seeing Interior Decoration anywhere?
18:47
does anyone know what this is suppose to do? I inputted en_US and nothing happens us1.php.net/manual/en/locale.canonicalize.php I thought it was going to change _ to -, but it didn't and the docs say nothing else about what it does.
@DaveRandom That love is worth all the pain
user924016
Moorning =]
@RonniSkansing your cv is impressive
@crypticツ That's because en_US is a proper locale. Try en-us, it'll get transformed properly. Irritatingly it doesn't like a lack of dash or underscore.
thanks! =o)
user924016
18:54
@VamsiKrishnaB =]
new blog post in 2 minutes
user924016
^ yay
posted on March 12, 2015 by Anthony Ferrara

The other day, I was directed at an interesting question on StackOverflow asking if password_verify() was safe againt DoS attacks using extremely long passwords. Many hashing algorithms depend on the amount of data fed into them, which affects their runtime. This can lead to a DoS attack where an attacker can provide an exceedingly long password and tie up computer resources. It's a really

2
Hello Everybody
I am having a problem with order by and group by
I am trying to select the Max id of a field and order by those that have not been read. I did something like this

$recup_id = mysqli_query($connection, "SELECT MAX(`id`) AS id FROM ojm_chat WHERE (`read_statu`=0 OR `read_statu`>0 ) AND (`from_id`='$id_ojm_peoples' OR `to_id`='$id_ojm_peoples') AND

(is_deleted!='$id_ojm_peoples' AND is_deleted >=0) GROUP BY (IF(`to_id`='$id_ojm_peoples', `from_id`, `to_id`))

ORDER BY `read_statu` ASC LIMIT 5 ") or die(mysqli_error($connection));
That code works only that it does not order it
Is there a way to make it in a normal order ?
19:18
> we only need to try approximately 128 passwords to get a 50% chance of finding a hash with a leading null byte
Not quite, for the same reason that trying 256 passwords doesn't give you a 100% chance of finding one. Instead 128 passwords gives you 1-((255/256)**128) = about 39%. To get to 50% you'd need to try ~177.
will edit
@ircmaxell @ircmaxell because the password is char*, and brcrypt will reset the pointer on null bytes, is it possible that passwords in UTF-8 charsets are going to be weakened?
@PaulCrovella updated
(I don't know enough about the underlying encoding to know if null bytes are omitted from UTF-8 encoded chars)
@Leigh possibly
19:25
29
A: Can UTF-8 contain zero byte?

paxdiabloYes, the zero byte in UTF8 is code point 0, NUL. There is no other Unicode code point that will be encoded in UTF8 with a zero byte anywhere within it. The possible code points and their UTF8 encoding are: Range Encoding Binary value ----------------- -------- ------------------...

doesn't look like utf-8 is a problem
ah yeah, that's right
@PaulCrovella great
though UTF-32 is a problem
Was about to say, now what about exotic UTFs :P
actually
UTF-16 too
which is problematic
due to windows codepages
19:29
So you're not really safe with password_hash for exotic encodings, right?
looks that way (talking with Alex about that right now)
Yep, 16 and 32 both contain tons of null bytes all over the show, hooray, lets encourage the chinese to use bcrypt ;D
hehehe
either way, I may do a rush RFC to port scrypt into PHP for 7
You feel it's been "battle tested" enough now?
Already a PECL for it I believe
I really hoped not to (to skip right to the PHC finalist), but what choice is there
19:34
hi
well, we could pre-hash...
how you doing friends
@ircmaxell Do we have anywhere that defines what the "feature freeze" is?
@ircmaxell Are we sure it even needs an RFC? It's not a language implementation based feature
unless you meant updating PASSWORD_DEFAULT too
19:36
@Leigh I use that term loosely
and yes, I did mean updating PASSWORD_DEFAULT as well
that's a bit more invasive (I mean in terms of changing existing functionality, not just keeping it standalone for now)
@ircmaxell So the way I read that is that the 15th is a total cutoff for an RFCs that target 7.0 period.
is there any php class to send the message in viber or line
I just don't know if I have the interpretation everyone else has.
@Charles I read it the same way
19:37
@ircmaxell some of your codeblocks need linebreaks ... or a wider layout
@Leigh nobody would object to this
@NikiC I know, I didn't care about those blocks :-P
Of course nobody would object, but there's a lot of rabble rabble cutoff rabble rabble talk
sounds helpfull
thanks a lot for your help
@behzadbabaei Everybody with the direct expertise to assist you, answered your question.
user895378
19:40
@Leigh that's why I just don't mention things like my ext/openssl rewrite. I'll do a PR in a few days and solicit input before quietly merging it when it's ready.
where I don,t see any answer
/me claps
@Leigh this is something I'm going to target for all versions if we do need to change
Fly it as a secfix, hit 5.4 too, +1
I don't see the need to change anything
19:44
@NikiC ?
@Leigh precisely what I would do
There is no critical issue here
@NikiC how do you figure?
Providing scrypt is nice, but there is no need to change default hashing algorithms in sec-only releases
@NikiC We can't know how everybody who isn't us receives their input. UTF-16/32 passwords are going to generate (potentiall) significantly insecure hashes.
Well, the upshot is it's not leaking the user's password, it's only compromising the system (so the attacker can login as the user)
19:46
@Leigh UTF-16/32 will generate totally useless hashes (as they virtually always start with a null byte), I doubt anybody would have missed it if their db is filled with ten million times the same hash
but escalated privileges can lead to other things
@NikiC they aren't the same because of the salt
@Leigh oh, I'm not saying it's not a bad issue
@ircmaxell okay not the same ... but it does seem kinda suspicious if your password check doesn't work at all and you can log in as any user ;)
Is there a way to make it in a normal order ?
@NikiC how many people test that though?
19:49
People don't test that password verification works?
How many people test that verification of a wrong password doesn't work in an end-to-end test
I'd say many ... but I don't see why this has to be an end-to-end test either
well, simply calling password_hash("wrong password") or $user->login("wrong_password") won't have an effect because that's ascii
you'd need it to come in from outside the app, or outside any data-conversion routines (which nobody likely does)
meaning it depends on the charset that the user uses
Man, I wish I had my order of PHP-Popcorn already
i'd say we could call it a win early ;)
19:55
apropos of nothing:
Surprises you find when reading through the SQLite code. Somebody must've received a lot of calls. http://t.co/1yTAvYLHMx
@NikiC I don't think that's true (UTF-16 at least)
@Sara Did I miss some new drama or somethin?
@Leigh guess it depends on whether it is LE or BE
@NikiC well in that case, UTF-8 is also a factor :P
oh wait, no it's not
ignore me!
> LogAdapter::getLogger(self::class)->error();
Java like typing detected
Heh, is that from the Johannes guy?
I've stopped reading that thread after the first couple of posts, was way too Java-y for me
19:59
@Leigh Yes. he has 15 years experience of Java apparently.

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