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22:00
I think rot13() is good enough for password encryption :)
@Jack in 99.9% there are more expensive pages than authentication to use for ddosing
Surely the unexpected stupidity will baffle the hacker.
@zerkms ... That wasn't serious ;)
@Jack lol unless it's a script kiddy :P
@zerkms possibly :)
22:01
he should just store passwords as rot13
or base64
@NikiC do you think I might think you're serious there? :-)
@HamZa Nay, because you need two different functions for encoding / decoding with b64.
Whereas rot13() can be applied twice for decode.
aha I see
@zerkms you never know...
22:03
@Jack Just store them in plain-text and be over with it.
You just have to tell your users they can't use exotic characters and they're limited to how long their password is.
No need to encode/decode at all.
Just don't have passwords at all ... trust in the user's morality.
^^ That
here are some cheerful Finnish for your night:
@Jack :-S
22:05
561
A: What technical reasons are there to have low maximum password lengths?

Tom LeekTake five chimpanzees. Put them in a big cage. Suspend some bananas from the roof of the cage. Provide the chimpanzees with a stepladder. BUT also add a proximity detector to the bananas, so that when a chimp goes near the banana, water hoses are triggered and the whole cage is thoroughly soaked....

@HamZa I wish I could upvote it twice
same here
> After some operations, you have five chimps who are ready to punch any chimp who would dare touch the stepladder -- and none of them knows why.
haha
@HamZa F5
oh, I need to wait for 24hrs
crap
@zerkms password_hash (they were using it), and I answered that MD5 & SHA1 are fast and without salt only slightly "better" than plaintext.
22:07
@webarto what did you say?
@webarto " only slightly "better"" they are much better actually
btw, was that question particularly for hashing passwords?
since for some things md5 still can be suitable
@zerkms in that a db admin can't accidentally see a password, yes. In all other ways, not really ;)
like for checking integrity
@NikiC if the password is strong - it's nearly impossible to brute it
say it's 20 characters
@zerkms eh, bounty :P
@zerkms That's why it is slightly better ;) Keeps the strong passwords safe
22:10
@NikiC I just don't get what Generator::throw is good for? It's the same than just throw…;?
@zerkms Yes, specifically for password. I understand, but they do bank software, and that's not acceptable there IMHO ("trick" question). Was also asked about MD5 collisions (regarding integrity check).
@NikiC for strong passwords it's much better - it allows to keep them secret :-)
bye guys!
@zerkms If you use md5 like crc32, then yes
That's what md5 is for, no? Integrity checks.
22:12
I.e. if you just use it as an error checking code it should be okay.
@webarto what about md5 collisions? what was the qn?
But you can't use it to ensure that a file hasn't been (actively) tampered with
That's what you have HMAC for.
Or openssl_verify.
@zerkms at the moment, I have a list of 3500 MD5 (unsalted) passwords from one hosting company (got it when WHMCS fail was published on localhost.re). If I "crack" or get even one password, that's bad, do you agree? :)
without a username? heh
22:14
@Jack yeah, iirc hmac-md5 is not broken yet
still wouldn't use it though
Good evening
@Jack Basically "What's (MD5) hash collision?" ... and I answered a bit expanded... I feel raped, I answered questions from 5 different areas. PHP, HTTP, JS, MySQL, HTML/CSS.
@webarto yep, the thing is - for such occasions the dictionaries are used
@webarto you probably should have mentioned:
1. the birthday paradox
2. n(n-1)/2 * 1/m^2
@webarto Yeah, did you feel technically violated? ;-)
-1 union select 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,(SELECT CONCAT(id,0x3a,firstname,0x3a,lastname,0x3a,address1,0x3a,address2,0x3a,city,0x3a,country,0x3a,ip,0x3a,email,0x3a,password) FROM tblclients LIMIT 1869,1),0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
@Jack ^ :D ... Kudos to that localhost.re guy.
@zerkms Yeah, I suck :) Lost concentration after fist hour, heh. Thanks.
22:18
my the longest interview was 4 hours
Oh man :D
for the position I'm currently holding
Was about to ask that :)
and actually the best interview I've ever had
Same here, only I haven't got the job, heh.
22:19
I've only had two interviews ... for two jobs :)
that guy perfectly found the boundaries of my knowledge about everything
@Jack I've failed .net position interview one day
I would have failed that too ;-)
don't regret it - they didn't believe md5 is 128 and sha1 is 160 bits and I had to use google to prove that
such a shame
@zerkms Saaaaame. I recapped everything later, I things I was lacking.
wut?!
@zerkms they just didn't remember it? haha
22:21
I'm sure they didn't know
@Jack I had first in 2011 (I applied), second one went just with test task (they offered), and now I'm back to applying :)
also were couple of questions about .net they also failed at, so I don't regret I didn't get that job
and those days was hired in a bank
@zerkms i have failed a java interview ... because I was not informed that it was going to have a java interview
Yeah, if you know more than the interviewer, something is wrong.
it sucked from programming point of view, but I've got solid oracle experience
22:22
@zerkms nice CV :)
@webarto so outdated and poorly written
meh, CV's are shit
and cover letters... I wrote "f* your cover letter" in one...
It's like applying for mortgage...
22:25
@tereško +14?!
if you explain the js people that the same is possible in php, the reactions tend to be difficult
@zerkms don't look at me. It's not my fault
@webarto lol
22:26
just finished another talk about php + arduino
sigh
@Jack I use $_ for private and $__ for protected :P
Cool >D
22:28
nice way to end the week ...
protip: downvote before delvoting so if the trolls ever bring the post back it's easier to delete.
@JoeWatkins nice!
@JoeWatkins Beautiful :) Have you managed to get into DB?
@tereško 1 left for me...
0 :)
Ah...
22:31
@tereško 3 now
@webarto there's one on the doc page phpdbg.com/docs/anywhere
only just got around to doing some docs today, still bit of a mess, needs organizing, and more content ...
i will add one too, when I wake up in the morning
btw proxy server that change data in the default config are not fun.
@JoeWatkins I'm neck deep in s* this week, sorry for not doing anything...
sweet node compiled.
22:33
@Fabien Took long enough :o
TBH I went away and watched a movie
@Fabien why did you compile node?
@webarto it's no bother, don't worry about it :)
Raspberry Pi OS has some age old version for the default repo and it's a painful process to install some new repos because the $basearch is based off of uname which isn't overly popular
22:35
PHP 5.2, when I unset() a PHP userland variable and its refcount decrements to zero, will the allocated RAM be freed immediately?
@JürgenThelen yes
the gc has it own rules
5.2 ?! You should upgrade your servers at least once per decade
unless it's an object or resource, in which case there are other refcounts involved ;)
22:37
@JoeWatkins i.imgur.com/Ud8pqvv.png not bad :)
@NikiC: thanks
I am only a user,
@ThomasWeinert: care to explain?
@tereško: unfortunately some customers are resistant to any advice^^
@igorw robertheaton.com/hire-me (search for: DHH), I'll put "retweeted by Rasmus" in mine :D
btw , a nugget from job interview today:
people say that there are 3 job ads per programmer in LV
22:42
@JürgenThelen NikiC knows more, but in my experience the gc is not triggered imminently.
@tereško you (they) mean, lack of programmers?
/me MOV LV
@tereško They said that?
@tereško how did it go?
@Fabien they referred to that as "colloquial knowledge" and seemed like they agreed
@tereško It's like admitting the power of choice is in your hands.
TBH it's not to dissimilar in UK. Always some dev jobs on the go.
@NikiC i had some problems with the gc in libevent on windows, it crashed the php. At the moment the events are ignored
22:47
@BenjaminGruenbaum IMHO, it went well. I should be getting the call when they finish waiting for applicants
:) Good luck.
> I appreciate your interest in XXX GmbH and the position of a Remote PHP Developer for which you applied. After reviewing the applications, yours was not selected for further consideration. Thank you for the time you invested in your application. I encourage you to apply for posted and advertised positions in our company, for which you qualify, in the future. Thank you, again, for your interest in our company.
I am not qualified :D
I should recommend @tereško.
I AM NOT QUALIFIED FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION
22:49
Where do I get the further consideration qualification?
@webarto not enough zend certificates
well that's pretty hard to determine based on sheet of CV, right? :)
@tereško CORRECT
I am not even being sarcastic
I need more bling.
@tereško I know... it's probably that someone who has more certificates applied.
22:51
certificates ...
Applying for remote has to be a lot harder though.
^
Especially if you don't fly over and interview in person.
Yes, and salaries are 1/3...
"we are not trying to save money"
my ass...
You drive?
22:53
@Fabien my bike, yes
:p
I visited my new offices today. I can see the corner of my apartment from the window.
I have to use a mac (never used one before) too.
@Fabien w00t!
@Fabien fancy :P
Aye. Should be interesting. Unsure why everyone has to use one, especially considering money. But tbh I am excited to get a chance to experience it.
@ThomasWeinert did you report a bug?
22:55
@Fabien during my last holidays, i rode my bike about 100km per day
@ThomasWeinert Decent exercise as long as you're not a generally smelly guy :)
@Fabien It's a POSIX with fancy apps and icons in pretty case.
@ThomasWeinert on a bicycle ?
@HamZa a brompton
22:57
@ThomasWeinert nice
I go almost everywhere on my bike: School, work, shopping etc...
@ThomasWeinert the wheels are so tiny! That sucks when it comes to distance per revolution.
@ThomasWeinert shall we engage in a race? :P
Both foldable.
@NikiC talked with pierre and igor, both say it is expected
22:59
@webarto how many gears do you have xD ?
@HamZa 21 :D low end Shimano
@ThomasWeinert oh? was it something about deeply nested arrays?
6 here, I always set it on the max whether it's in a crowded city or long roads.
Low budget ...
@webarto i have a recored top speed of 58 km/h - still interested? :-)
@ThomasWeinert o_O Are you sure it isn't 5.8 xD
23:01
@NikiC no if you add a stream event to the current libevent implementation on windows it will just return on the loop run
downhill with a 30km/h tail wind =oP
@crypticツ :D
@ThomasWeinert ah, okay. I have no idea how libevent works ^^
@ThomasWeinert YES, I'm way heavier than you + downhill = more speed :D
23:03
@NikiC timer event on the event loop work, add a stream event and it won't
Downhill + Speed Wobble = Code Brown.
@webarto btw, I've got this one decathlon.nl/nework-3-id_8222474.html
@webarto actually, the seed would be pretty much the same. Hell .. you actually might be slower, because of the additional air friction
same in Carica Io, ReactPHP and Alert
@webarto more interesting would be distance on a day
@ThomasWeinert I die after 10km... can't breathe on nose.
23:05
my max is about 180 on a 2 speed Strida
@tereško we would need wind tunnel to determine friction :)
bottom line: you are bad at high-school level physics
brb .. beer is empty :-P
@tereško lolwut
Hah, and you guys thought that this was a cv-pls. :p
23:09
what's confusing you ?
don't make me calculate it please
@Charles he doesn't deserve it. A clear helpvampire
keep in mind that your density would be the same or maybe even less
@HamZa Yeah, but as someone that's battled Zebra printers for eight years, I can safely say that I wouldn't willingly unleash the horrors of those things on my worst enemy. Not even help vampires deserve dealing with their crap.
@Charles lol
23:13
@NikiC: which C method/function in the PHP 5.2 engine executes the garbage collection?
@JürgenThelen _zval_ptr_dtor
@Charles Well, he got on my nerves with his lasts questions. I decided to loop through all his questions and see what should be closed. I also realised that he didn't accept even one answer. He doesn't deserve it, really.
Yeah, the rest of his questions are kind of crap.
> So in downhill coasting, weight pwns aerodynamics.
Which is not evidence, but I have a reason to think so.
@HamZa At least this one had code that could hypothetically work, if it wouldn't end up being an obtuse torture device for the next maintainer...
23:15
@webarto weight has no impact on acceleration
I'm bad at string parsing :D
0
Q: Cutting introns out of pre-mRNA

Dave ChenI have an RNA strand, and the enzyzme notanenezymase cuts the strand at specific sites. Two and one nitrogenous base by itself are cut and degraded, the sticky ends are then stitched back together. An example of this phenomenon is shown below: GGGAAAUUCCCCAAA GGGAAACCCCAAA ^ UU, since th...

@tereško in a vacuum
@webarto yes , and in non-vacuum the only significant difference is the air friction
well, it seems that he ripped it (or partially) with his google-fu. At the end of his post, there are so much questions that it's just clear that he doesn't know anything about the subject and that there was no research
Or is that Zebra thing soooo bad that even a non-helpvampire would scream for help ?
@NikiC: thanks, zend_execute_API.c, right?
23:18
two objects of approximately same size but different mass will accelerate identically
anyway, I am falling asleep
you're missing force :)
you are missing 3 years of physics
c ya
@DaveChen shouldn't you tag it as algorithm ?
@JürgenThelen ya
23:21
re
Is it possible to get a div HTML element in the PHP code, rather than on the client side using JavaScript?
tagged -- but I feel it should be easier than I imagine
@DestinyDawn DOMDocument!!
@DaveChen I know you can use DOMDocument but with DOMDocument, don't you have to generate the entire tag programatically?
@NikiC how do you think about interfaces foral of the magic methods?
@DestinyDawn could you explain the challenge ?
23:23
@DestinyDawn well here is xpath
@DestinyDawn how are you getting the html in the first place? is it in a different file?
@ThomasWeinert meh, you know I like regex :P
@DestinyDawn i don't really understand your question
hey guys
can i ask a PHP question?
Sorry SQL and database related question?
@MarcRasmussen Read the rooms description
> Discussion for all things PHP. BEFORE chatting in this room read : git.io/chatroom-pact
23:25
@HamZa @DaveChen @ThomasWeinert essentially I'm trying to create a 'chat' for example. Data is gathered from a MySQL database and appended onto a div tag.
<- gets a big FOAM clue bat and starts hitting @HamZa
@ThomasWeinert hehe :)
After all that I need to rollback my node version :(
@DestinyDawn something like $output = '<div>' . $data . '</div>';. It's unclear what you want
I'm sorry, I'm trying the best I can.
Okay. Let me give everyone a for-if code example.
23:27
@DestinyDawn If it's lengthy use pastie or something please :)
Alright
non blocking tcp chat in php, be there done that, bitbucket.org/ThomasWeinert/carica-io/src/…
Guys what is best pratice when thinking of Databases.
So basically you have a textbox, okay?
Above the textbox is a DIV tag that contains text that was typed from the client, then sent over to the database and then server returns something.

IE: User types "1 + 1" in the textbox. I want to insert "= 2" into the DIV tag above the textbox, without using javascript.
@MarcRasmussen lol, that's a vague and broad statement
23:29
Having a seperate table with multiple lines (of sort of the same data) or having it seperated by a "," in a single collum?
Say for instance you have a user table and a message table.
Then user sends a message and now you want a user has message table that conists of many users
@MarcRasmussen using "," in a column is an anti-pattern and should be avoided. You will end up hacking ways around in some cases and end up using regex on columns
it is ok for denormalized columns
what means data duplication
Was that simpler?
Well, explained enough?
@DestinyDawn So the user submits "1 + 1" and you return "1 + 1 = 2" ?
chat is not simple
23:32
@Hamza say for instance 10 users that were to recieve 1 message. would you rather have the id of the users stored in a single comma sperated line or have them stored 10 times in a table?
@HamZa Yes
@DestinyDawn please, what does that have to do with HTML ?
@HamZa I want to get the div tag on the page to display the "= 2" in the tag.
I am thinking about publishing my own json->xml logic, but i am a little afraid of the flame wars
Could you write some code and show us where it went wrong ?
"Getting a div" is easy, but getting a "specifically div" from a certain wild environment is another story
23:34
@HamZa Okay
@MarcRasmussen I don't know, depends on the project and the db structure
I implemented some logic to generate json from xslt, ended up with somthing that could be used in reverse (importing json into dom)
@HamZa basically as simple as this: pastie.org/8517875
inpu*tt*
@DestinyDawn (facepalm)
23:37
:-)
Still explaining it wrong?
;-;
I spelled input wrong, sorry.
@DestinyDawn Well, I'm wondering if I'm thinking too complicated or if it is really that simple
i want to share a message between 10 people, when one persons posts a message, i could just save the message in a single row and have a column with the names og all 10 people seperated by a delimiter. Or i could do like this guy posted stackoverflow.com/questions/20281552/… which would require me to save more rows, but might be more efficient.
It's been a long day. I'll go with that excuse.
@HamZa What are you thinking, may I ask?
@MarcRasmussen chat is complex in classic web environment, the requests are separated and short lived, this is the opposite of what you want in a chat.
23:40
^ I think he wants like a mini bbs or something
@ThomasWeinert what for?
@NikiC Stringable for _toString to know if something is castable to a string for example
or Callable for __invoke
class foo implements Callable { ... }
Just added XML and JSON configurators
@DestinyDawn Something like this pastebin.com/qMJ4uzLi ?
at the moment i can check if somthing is callable, but i can not declare it
same for most of the other features defined by the magic methods
23:46
@HamZa Yeah, kinda like that. But what I was aiming for was being able to reference the "result" div and append to the current HTML. Like if the current contents is "1 + 1 = 2" add "<br />1 + 2 = 3" like that
@DestinyDawn Euhm, this might sound rude. But how long have you been doing webdevelopment ? and how long PHP in particular?
@DestinyDawn how good do you know xpath and xslt?
> In discussing weight, we are assessing the weight of the rider, not the skateboard itself. .In a frictionless world, weight has no impact on the speed of a skateboard. In the real world, more weight means more inertia, which means the friction of the wheels have a proportionately less impact on a heavy skateboarder compared to a light skateboarder. Therefore, a heavy skateboarder will coast a further distance on level terrain, or will go faster down a hill, compared to a light skateboarder.
@tereško you got pwnd, you suck
@webarto that sound a lot like discussion about the friction of bicycle wheels
@HamZa PHP I'm quite new too. But I've been developing for the past 15 years.
I do have to go for now though. I'll post a more detailed question on stackoverflow later, sorry for not being too specific.
Thank you for your help, though!
23:52
nope
Why does it feel so difficult to downgrade npm?
and cyclists can fill about two weeks worth of data in about one day if asked about the tire resistance :-|

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