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00:02
"Oh that's awesome... please say yes... please please please :) I've
always thought goto was a bit of a missing element in PHP since it's the
method of choice IMHO for fast and concise parsing."
omg
I'm going to have to code Haskell for a week now just to stop feeling so dirty :S
I can't believe that these are the people making the choices
I don't see a RFC for goto. I might be blind.
"Big +1 from here. It will signficantly simplify my error handling code :)"
loooooooooool
Hey, don't judge! :D
Wait, when was finally added?
00:04
With 5.3
that wasn't in 2004
was it?
Isn't finally newer than goto? That could explain it.
"I love gotos. Try/Catch is goto for poor people ;)"
@webarto thanks for the link
definitely made my month
hahaha
That reference made me want to puke, but since PHP didn't have finally until recently - I can get why people would want goto for cleanup code.
"Does a goto operator make sense in a language that wants to be more and more
OOP oriented and that has just introduced a new OOP model? Not so much for
me.

-1"
00:06
Top reason I buy Celebrations... the malteaser ones. Top reason I am disappointed with Celebrations... the lack of malteasers.
I watched Sara Golemon talks few days ago, it's kind of not boring to watch. I think she explained somewhere the reason for goto.
@webarto there is a case for goto if you don't have finally.
Erm, bad wording, the reason she implemented it :)
No, no goto, thank you.
obviously, goto is insane.
Oct 30 at 23:40, by webarto
user image
I used it few days ago for no reason, hah.
Just so I can add this "comment".
@LeviMorrison somewhat fixed scrolling and that "take me to parameter" parameter names
00:14
And now I get my mood ruined by another silly arguing: stackoverflow.com/questions/20169365/…
@webarto do you have another funny internals link?
Yes, pick a random thread :P
Not from the top of my head :(
Have you seen PHP sunglasses?
I've seen a link yesterday, but haven't check the actual picture
I was too annoyed of hysteria around php elephants
Yeah... I will remember you if I find something!
btw, some clojure and/or F# is a good way to relax after php
I was doing jQuery entire day :P
That sounded bad...
Oh, wait, it is bad.
...
I got a reply from a guy who posted ad on Careers... says that about 300 people applied...
00:20
@webarto nice :)
Maybe for him :P
No, f* job ads...
I'm better than that.
</ego>
I just can't figure out how in 2011-2012 I was showered with real offers and now that I'm exponentially "better", can't find a good one...
Too cool?
Or my expectations were low...
Your expectations grew
@webarto It hasn't been long though...
and good positions were filled
That would be it (probably).
Especially with remote work, they want to pay less.
00:24
@webarto because remotely you're less efficient
I was of thought that remote !== outsourcing but it's pretty much ==.
(/me provokes another arguing)
Possibly not a great time of year to be looking unfortunately. Not many projects are launched at this time of year.
Depends on company and individual, but in general, I watch movies all day.
So, yes.
One of the reasons too @Danack
New Year is coming, people don't want to work much now...
people don't want to work much all around the year
00:27
What's a sensible character to use as a separator in auto-generated class names, that are compatible with the Composer Autoloader? I just (re)learnt that underscores aren't because they assume they're in a different directory.
Things should pick up in January hopefully.
/me instead of finishing some jira bug wastes his time on SO/SO chat
@Danack just camel case without any separators?
@zerkms Sometimes you just that litt... no you don't, go work!
@Fabien Hey, what's up with you? Got a dream job yet? :)
@zerkms I'd really like a separator - the class names are being generated from other class names which could lead to it being really ambiguous.
@webarto lol. I am awaiting an interview time slot for an agency job. I have work up until January 01st atm.
00:29
Protip: employers don't like when you write "fuck your cover letter"
I was offered 3 months freelance with the prospect of more if profitable too but I turned it down due to morals.
Screw that, find a real job.
You know shit.
I'll take a job until I find a better job too though.
My only concern is the date I start losing money.
Yes, yes.
That date is here for me :D
It's unlikely I'll start something on 1st of December, so, one salary less.
@Fabien do you still work for your current company?
Erm, latest.
Yeah, 1 month notice. Dec 18th is my last day
00:33
@webarto I have a task "renew LI profile" that is overdue for about a year :-S
Haha!
btw, LI's API is the WORST API I've worked with ever
@webarto You got any prospects atm?
from both semantics and availability point of view
I had dozens of task, whenever I wanted to do one, "it's not a priority, let it wait", and when review comes, I haven't done anything really :D
@zerkms that's the worst popular website IMHO
00:34
last week it was about 50% chance for the "get my profile" request to fail right after you were authenticated with oauth
"professional"
It so annoyed
Notifications that are coming 2 days after are not really up to the job.
Yup, whole thing is broken.
"that are coming 2 days after" -- my bank sends all notifications next day morning
Found a separator: class email€user {}
:p
00:36
why would one want to have a text message notification about lack of funds on a CC on the next morning?
I don't follow
@zerkms So, I can party like wild and drain your money... yes. That.
They have a justification confirmed by some fellas who work there - at this moment the system all their software is built on top just doesn't provide other way of doing that
why was it implemented in such a useless way at first place?!
@Fabien I doubt so, I can't find a serious company... Excluding large companies I can't possibly work for atm.
Because developers wore suits and the bank hired them because they're enterprise?
Suits blech
It'd be nice to find non agency work
what is an "agency work" ?
00:50
Building loads of sites for clients
That's not happiness, I built like 30 sites, and scars are still not healing...
+1 on that
and btw, goto is awesome, just not for "everyday use"
unless your everiday activity could benefit the use of it
 
1 hour later…
> I have a super simple php based bash script that I am trying to run on Mavericks.
sam
sam
02:39
Hi all, Does anyone know how to generate a twitter authentication url? Please don't send me to twitter's website. I've been reading it all day and still no luck.
sam
sam
@crypticツ I've read the documents but it doesn't make much sense
02:55
@sam what part doesn't make sense?
Remove some lines would be rude, right?
@toscho I'd say keep stirring >.<
oh kitchen jokes...
03:12
shitty programmers always comingle separation of concerns
03:23
Howdy folks
i had a quick question on how to call a js method from a file in php
If I did `echo "<script type='text/javascript' src='path-to-js'></script>";` followed by
`echo '<script type="text/javascript">', 'method();', '</script>';`.. Where method is defined in the js file. Would it be called?
weird the code isnt formatting :\
Any help folks? php noob here
@KodeSeeker no
@crypticツ . Sorry, but I dont get you?
JS cannot call PHP methods, it can however, access a PHP file via a request, which in turn will run the method.
or are you trying to run a JS function?
03:39
im running a JS function
ah ok I get the question now, misread. Yes, you can, just no need to write it out that way though. echo '<script type="text/javascript">method();</script>';
btw HTML5 does not require the type attribute anymore
but method() is defined in the js file. I would have to include the js file right?
@KodeSeeker yes
So I did exactly that here stackoverflow.com/questions/20170792/… but still doesnt help :(
@KodeSeeker view the page source and make sure it outputted correctly
03:47
@crypticツ Will do
04:10
did you hear what stackoverflow founder had to say about software engineering?
He sounds like a jackass
His blog post was so bad he had to mute the upheaval of logical rebuttals
"Uncaught exception 'Exception' with message 'Serialization of 'Closure' is not allowed'"
oh god
@webarto ^ ^ ^
Has anyone had the privilege of implementing sonata admin bundle in production with fosuserbundle aggregation?
Didn't think so..
@Jack my point was that it's not a closure
but an anonymous function
04:26
Do you write alot of unit tests?
@Jack personally I don't think serializing an anonymous function is a good idea
@JosephPersie define "a lot" ?
Otherwise I dont see much need for closures in php
Hah
@zerkms I guess they don't really make a difference between anonymous function and Closure? :)
Closures in php = revenge of serverside javascript programmers
04:35
alot of unit tests? I didn't know unit tests was a country / region? ;-)
unit test were*
@JosephPersie anyway, what is "a lot"?
is 100 "a lot"?
@JosephPersie No, was :)
I have no need to answer such stupid question
Do you revolve your existence around dumbass questions?
Well, seems like today I'm attracting dump questions and stupid answers
04:39
unit tests was? That does not work out
Neither does misspelling "a lot"
I love Sundays.
Some Q and A on SO were
I'm not a grammar nazi by any means, just in postulate of continuity for consistency purposes
That makes no sense, but whatever floats your boat.
@Jack what is the aim for **?
04:43
That is too bad you can wrap you peanut brain around that concept
The aim? Other than to propose its inclusion you mean?
@Jack yep, the rationale behind that
keeping in mind there is pow()
saving a single keystroke?
@JosephPersie No need to get personal.
@zerkms That's one reason, but it works well with gmp overloading for instance.
The ridiculous mundane syntax, not so much like using endforeach }
And it speeds up math intensive operation that involve exponents.
04:48
operator overloading in php?
@JosephPersie No, gmp operator overloading.
Hm, how would using operator instead of function increase performance of anything?
Doesn't one utilize implementation of another?
Ehm, exactly because it's not a function? :)
I thought it will be just a shortcut to pow() and that's it
so the difference is a function call overhead?
That's one difference.
04:50
:-S
that's php way )
GMP overloading is applicable to php?
to have multiple things with different names that do it differently but lead to the same result )
@zerkms Cool huh? =D
vs7
vs7
Hi Morning
I need a help
04:51
/me thinks about moving back to .net
/me hands over a help to @vs7
Ah... php 5.6
Indeed :)
vs7
vs7
Can we assigned javascript value to php variable ?
No
The JavaScript variable must be "sent" to PHP.
04:52
I would just use a math intensive language that can handle float precision
vs7
vs7
With Cookies?
I would obviously need it If im overloading arithmetic operators, sheesh
GMP doesn't do floats though.
@vs7 Cookies is a way.
It's definitely a day of stupid questions
Others include posting a form or making an AJAX request.
vs7
vs7
04:54
No actually I check if user email already in our data base using FB login in CI
@vs7 do you realize how php, javascript and http work?
It should be a requirement to understand a tcp packet and how it applies to http request before posting a question related of such matter
vs7
vs7
@zerkms ya i know them very well
@JosephPersie That would be a good idea to introduce licensing before programming
@vs7 you're kidding, aren't you?
@vs7 I wouldn't recommend you telling so on public for next year or so
vs7
vs7
what should be better to send ajax .... or first set cookie with JS and then get them by PHP $_COOKIE?
04:57
SWEBOK is a sorry attempt, lol
what is "better"?
which is better - an apple or an orange?
That is not a good separation of concern comingling responsibility between two languages
vs7
vs7
@zerkms if you cant help , than its better to go to other funny chat room
@vs7 it's hardly possible to answer questions that make no sense
Did SO just make a change to the review queue? I just had 20+ low quality flagged answers that were link only and most of them had the term "check out this link"
04:59
it's not possible to say which is better if you haven't provided what is better for you
comparison makes no sense without some criterias
@crypticツ I've already proclaimed today as a day of dump questions and stupid answers
For the most part javascript should be confined to dom manipulation unless you are using node.js
vs7
vs7
@zerkms I already listed above as i want to check if user is exist or not ... in with FB JS SDK in CI
@vs7 so? which is better for you - cookies or ajax?
which is more suitable in your case?
Why do most developers from India use code igniter, has anyone else noticed that?
@JosephPersie I did
05:01
0
Q: is it safe to use password_hash() hash in URL parameter

fmaskis it safe to use password_hash() produced hash in URL as a parameter ? password_hash() hash contains +, = or it safe to use in URL ? I am not using it for password purpose in URL so no security suggestions please.

may be it's a part of their primary school education
vs7
vs7
I think Cookie .. because then i need to set session if user already exist
@vs7 so now you found which is better for you. Now you see my point?
And teresko's link just confirmed it's a weird day today
The issue with CI is it has no learning curve but it results in a bunch of concrete implementation that is usually bug ridden and lacking code coverage
and it's a lot of copy-paste tutorials/articles about it over the internet
05:03
Hah
no, lack of learning cure is not a CodeIgniter issue
so you either copy it from somewhere or ask on SO and wait for someone to write code for you so that you were able to code it
then repeat until another project is done
So you think codeigniter has a learning curve?
Im sorry, it must have flew over my head what exactly is so baffling about the framework
i think it is not an issue
But the issue is that because there is no learning curve there is no abstraction and therefore tons of code coverage responsibility
Zend, although did a good job of delegating ad hoc implementation to the corporations that use it
vs7
vs7
05:11
Is session is valid if i set it in ajax request?
it's another question that makes no sense
you cannot "set" session
especially from client side
@tereško stackoverflow.com/q/20171257/251311 - another win
> thanks a lot I'll ask it at yahoo. I am deleting it here. – fmask 54 secs ago
05:26
the issue with stackoverflow is its a bunch of new developers asking newb questions or syntax hurdles, otherwise a lack of technical documentation in opensource projects but I must say it serves its purpose
it must be so wonderful to know what is "the issue" with each and every thing
 
1 hour later…
07:00
Issues, everywhere!
@Jack A lot of blabla this pow discussion…
Is there an RFC for constant array dereferencing? Or is it something stupid to even ask for? =oP
@crypticツ doesn't that already exist?
@crypticツ wiki.php.net/rfc/constdereference implemented in PHP 5.5
@bwoebi something like this viper-7.com/BFVmOi
@crypticツ then it's a stupid thing to ask for:
07:14
aww =o(
constants can't be arrays (E_COMPILE_ERROR)
then it should be a RFC for constants to be array values too
isn't a constant just a variable/value that does not change? If so, anything that you want as 'readonly' would be a constant right?
basically yeah
07:29
I see so much code where define() is used to create application settings among other things, since the value is globally accessible so like say CONFIG_ITEM1, CONFIG_ITEM2, CONFIG_ITEM3 etc... If arrays were allowed it could be define('CONFIG', ['item1'...'item2'...'item3'....]) and then access it via CONFIG['item1'] opposed to having a half dozen constants floating around while still maintaining the readonly nature. I know this is a bad example and I'll get yelled at for it =oP
07:50
moin
morning
the engine does already support constant arrays but doesn't expose them to the user ...
Do you know if there a reason why it's not?
only that it is super wasteful, which was a problem in the 90's when define() was implemented ... not so much today
most of the time, it's just more suitable to use simple types for constant values
there could be a reason I can't think of, mind you ... it seems almost like an emission on purpose ... the reason I cannot see the reason might be because it's nothing to do with code ...
'mazing ...
08:05
to think we know more about space than we do our own oceans, and have only explored less than 5% of it.
there just might exist a Kraken =oP
hmmm krakenrum.com apparently you have to be 21yrs old to look at pictures of alcohol O_0
is that some porn site?
alcohol porn
riiiigt
there must have been a really confused focus group which came up with that idea
@tereško stackoverflow.com/q/20172493/251311 - you'll like it
08:25
@zerkms I was going to instruct some of my beginner students to learn CI, so, this matters for me, as well as some other people !! — Ako 7 mins ago
not sure if evil or stupid
hehe
@tereško btw, it's just "worst"
you have not really been exposed to CakePHP all taht much, have you
neither to CI
and it actually annoys me when someone uses CI to express codeigniter not "continuous integration"
Afternoon
08:50
@zerkms join the club =P
@AshwinMukhija - hey
@MadaraUchiha Yeah, I guess MVC is not appropriate for web, that's why there is no MVC framework, but a lot of MVP using MVC as a buzzword. May be MVP is not that bad at all.
@bwoebi Yarr ... btw, do you think I should add the **= token as well? hehe
Forward Secrecy sounds nice :)
@zerkms So what you're saying is that Travis doesn't run on CI?
09:08
I don't know why high rep users are answering crap like that.
He's not that high rep.
Just the other day we saw a question being answered by not one but three high-reps, one of which is 200k+
23.5k is pretty high. It is to me anyway.
Good alternative .... — hek2mgl 32 secs ago
No it's not! ^^
@vascowhite because he wants to feel smart and useful
Not sure about the former.
09:17
or the latter :)
Everybody wants to feel useful, right? ;-)
I don't this morning, I have a huge hangover and I'm feeling pretty f'ing useless!
I'm sure that sentiment is shared with a couple of your organs ;-)
lol, yes. My brain and my liver for a start.
That's why I only drink at most one beer ... served in a bucket =D
what's the reputation required for casting delv-vote?
@AmalMurali 10k+, but IIR, you needed 20k+ to not be require to wait to vote
morning :)
@tereško Needs to wait 48 hours before I can cast the vote.
Users with reputation >= 20k (more precisely, the “trusted user” privilege; 4k on beta sites) are not subject to the 48-hour waiting period for deleting closed questions with a score of -3 or lower.
Yep
Aren't we the privileged ones? ;-)
09:31
:D
@Jack a lot of repfarming and anybody could be there
glorified janitor, ffs
btw @tereško, do you even sleep ?
only on national holidays (actually I sleep 6+ hours a day)
lol
09:33
Sleep is for the weak.
sleep when you're dead.
@Jack Mm. I think your answer is the correct one. :)
@tereško By 6+ you mean 6 <= hours < 24 ?
@AmalMurali Can't exactly remember how I know that ... but surely the php-src would corroborate it ;-)
I sleep 4 - 5 hours on working days. I think it's enough. :P
@AmalMurali no, it isn't really
you need to sleep more then 4 hours for the "defrag" to kick in
09:41
I try to sleep for about eight hours to feel refreshed.
8h is great
I usually go to bed at times like 1 AM to 2 AM. Since I have class, I have to wake up at around 6. So can't sleep more than 4 hours unless I go to bed early (which is hard :P)
@AmalMurali addiction to SO ?
nah. just reading random stuff, IRC, videos. what not
Controller changes the model state and sends a message to the View informing which layout should be used. The view queries the Model to get the data and binds the data recieved from the Model to the layout. Anyone tried such a workflow?
09:48
At a glance that looks okay.
yes .. though, controllers altering view is an exception not a rule
Anyone else getting frequent 408 Request Time-out errors on SO?
nope .. could be your regional CDN
23
Q: 408 Request Timeout, is it just me?

wafflesDuring the day, almost every day, I get a handful of 408 Request Timeout pages when doing stuff on Stack Overflow or Meta Stack Overflow. Is this an Australia thing, or are others experiencing this intermittently?

@tereško Another approach i am thinking of is to have a routing system which tells the View about the layout to use for the particular matched route
@tereško another problem is that if the View queries the Model, then the Model should should have a contract with View via interfaces
09:59
Contract via interfaces sounds like a good idea :)

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