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00:03
I don't even know what agile means...
first parts of the unicode string object work :-)
@ThomasWeinert mb_substr?
@ThomasWeinert Yay! BitBucket user!
The http://php.net web team is even providing hardware fixes to bug reports like http://php.net/66144 #php http://t.co/B07FuAMg0p
00:20
@webarto they allow private repositories for experiments :-)
@ThomasWeinert I use BB for everything private, it works good. No reason to pay $7 to Github, since it's private, you won't get collaborators etc.
I don't mind paying, I just mind paying for nothing :)
Most of my projects are private for the first one or two weeks, after that i publish them. but if nobody has even a remote chance getting the stuff to work i don't see the point publishing it.
others get deleted :-)
@ircmaxell are you alive? :)
00:43
@rdlowrey I can vouch for the link Benjamin posted. Very interesting.
user895378
@LeviMorrison I'm about halfway through right now :)
00:58
Good evening
just walked in to my apartment
Hate to ask, buuuuut.. Does anyone know of a chat that would handle .HTCACCESS?
and you found us on screen? :)
yup
like you were calling me :-P
:P
how was your day?
Some days make you question why you're in technology. Some make you question doing anything else. Today was the latter. :-)
01:02
Ah, has a twitter status for everything, so you don't repeat :)
:-P
nah, twas a very good day
Yay!
tension is over
you can go reset tonight
Today was a good day - Ice Cube
yup
nailed all of the interviews. I really felt great in there
disclose companies
@Fabien at least someone made it :P
we got crappy part-time offers, hah
01:04
6 letters, and you use them every day
fuckno
I'd imagine with your status companies should feel like you're interviewing them...
AWESOME
get me
@Fabien That's actually how I'd suggest you approach it too
Walk in, not as if you need to sell yourself, but as if they need you.
it really works well
01:06
Aye. Choice. I turned down 3 months freelance today. Principles.
@webarto I don't know if I'll want the gig, or if they will even offer me anything. But it was worth even trying
Same people who gave you glasses?
@ircmaxell Where at (if we're allowed to know)
3 mins ago, by ircmaxell
6 letters, and you use them every day
@SomeKittens 1e100 :)
01:08
@ircmaxell :)
Glad they didn't make you feel stupid :)
yeah, was really cool
even had a guy go "Woah, I never saw that problem solved like that, that's awesome!"
May I ask what problem?
@webarto heh. Nice.
NYC office?
I don't want to give it away, but it was an algorithm dealing with large numbers...
most people treat it as an array of digits, I treated it mathematically...
@ircmaxell have you seen some of the side guys?
01:11
Hard to tell if that's impressive or not without context :P
Still, I'm glad it went well :)
I couldn't probably solve it as array of digits, hah.
@webarto nope
@BenjaminGruenbaum it's not. Took me 3 minutes to write out the code...
NYC is f* amazing (looking at the pic)
it was more that I saw the other way that was the interesting thing
@ircmaxell they seemed to think it was impressive :)
01:12
@ircmaxell so the interview/presentation went well
Yeah, other perspectives are always good :)
Manhattan is a lot smaller than you'd think. Nice though.
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah, he did. :-)
@Fabien ummm... no, it's definitely not :-)
curls up and cries
01:12
When are you getting an answer?
Friend of mine works at bloomberg
@BenjaminGruenbaum not sure. Could be as early as Tuesday or Wednesday, but depends on a lot of things
@ircmaxwell we'll it was smaller than I had imagined.
Well, regardless of the answer I'm glad it went well. You deserve a meaningful job.
@webarto See the "black" tall building in the left of that photo? My office is exactly on the other side of that
01:14
If it's a no it's their loss :)
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes, but I deserve a job where I can grow, not just one where I can do good
@ircmaxell a big part of a good job is constantly learning new things. By meaningful I mean meaningful for you.
I'd never stick around someplace if I'm not learning. (Where learning isn't always programming skills by the way).
Yup
I haven't learned here in nearly a year
I'm sure you learned a lot outside the workplace though.. at least it seems that way from the outside.
said company tries to hire pretty quickly, so you should be good
01:17
I don't want to be hired quickly
I always have that fear since I work at a startup, that I'm not learning enough or growing the 'right' way.
@BenjaminGruenbaum yes, that is true, but I would do that anyway
@BenjaminGruenbaum If you're not regularly panicking, then you're probably outgrowing the position.
Startups... Not a big fan of that word
maybe not panicking as in 'AHH THE SERVERS ARE DOWN' but 'AHH I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS'
01:18
@SomeKittens I'm regularly panicking alright :P
@SomeKittens Not saying that happened, not saying it didn't. I do get a lot of 'X sounds cool, do X' where X is something I've never done before.
Which has forced me in the past (to the dismay of the people I work with) to sit down and actually read a book about something and spend time understanding stuff.
I deal with problems I have no idea how to deal with all the time - that's a big problem with start ups, I have no guidance for a lot of stuff. It's one of the best parts and the worst parts of it all.
Good if you've a lot of experience behind you IMO
That's what I like about my current workplace. There's enough gray hair here that us younguns get guidance.
@ircmaxell do you think you would have grown more or less if you were in an environment where growth occurred more inside the workplace and not outside?
@Fabien I disagree. If you have a lot of experience you feel like you're wasting your time often. I do things that I wouldn't do in a big company like deal with IT issues, write GUI, and work with multiple technologies that are somewhat uninteresting or routine.
I don't know
I'm willing to try
I just mean experience in an unrelated way to the new stuff you're doing. I'm in a position where I can do a lot of new stuff but my lack of experience makes it hard for me to determine if it's right. There may be a better way I don't know about.
Which can be unforgiving. :-/
01:31
@salathe BANANA
@Fabien Yeah, I've been in places like that (both technical and people). It'll all happen sometimes, but be wary of it happening too much
Also just found eregi used when strpos would have sufficed. Ugh.
@webarto Thought that was a sprite sheet and got excited.
03:21
Just wanted to ask a quick question, I'm creating a user profile system and I wanted to know if storing ALL of the information would be best on a MYSQL database? Then having it just read from there when the username is matched, etc.
Images would be saved on the file system obviously.
04:21
FU DOCBOOK
Fuck all XML.
04:44
Hi guys, anybody having experience in concrete5 cms?
i want to add full calendar in my site
but i dont know how to pass json feed in it
@rdlowrey I got interrupted half-way through. I need to finish :)
Hey can any of you reach leviathon.homenet.org?
I am at my parents' place and I strongly distrust their ISP and I can't reach it.
It may be down but it was up before I left.
05:02
Unable to connect

Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at leviathon.homenet.org.
Ah, it may have just gone down.
Of course, the moment I leave it physically it goes down ^^
xDDD Got to love that.
42 secs ago, by user2994429
Unable to connect

Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at leviathon.homenet.org.
same error i'm also getting
I could not reach to that url
Do you guys know the fastest way to make a website with a login, I'm a C/C++ guy and i'm too scared to write my own login system. Besides that I need it to just render some SQL data...
You can make some pretty basic ones.. The one I use is less than 100 lines of code for the actual BAREBONES of it.
05:07
@Mikhail Eh, what kind of website?
I'd use something premade for auth for sure.
Auth can be hard to get right :/
Well... If you have a timeout on requests, you usually do not need more than MD5.
@LeviMorrison It needs to display files and information about these files, and let other people upload... I think I have the SQL part and the render part in PHP, but I don't know about the login system. Is there some way I can make an existing package do the login part?
@user2994429 Uh, that's wrong. Please don't use md5 for anything security related at all.
xD.. I think I may have written the wrong protocol.
Nope.. From what I've read a salt of at least 60 characters, and a multi layered hash is secure.
@user2994429 I wonder if the real solution is have an authentication divorced form anything useful. If it leaks oh well.
05:15
this is why I hate all this framework hype
anybody tried Opauth
Did he forget to declare global $GLOBALS;? hehe
05:31
.. that post contains 7 different questions.
0
Q: Is it possible to work with pointers in PHP?

Erik LandvallSo I understand that references aren't pointers: http://php.net/manual/en/language.references.arent.php Question is, is it possible to work with pointers in php? Given the following example I would guess that's what we do when working with objects: class Entity { public $attr; } class Filte...

object handles are not pointers
hi everybody
05:50
Good mooorrrnnning
06:05
anybody have a favorite Node.js tutorial?
wrong room
hi
Anyone plz help, in wamp I want to make sub-domains, i created it like first.localhost , second.localhost but now requirements is ip based, like 123.456.789.012 is this possible?like first.123.456.789.012 , second.123.456.789.012 lol....how to achieve it? or port based sub-domain is possible?Actually I want different cookies on same computer accessing through ip address
123.456.789.012 is not an ip.
it was exammple
PHP sunglasses are now on sale, get them at http://php.net / sunglasses
@web2students.com There are no numeric TLD's, so ... I doubt this will ever be possible.
user652649
<- owned @Jack
hehe
user652649
i always liked being rickrolled tho xD
06:40
asked at stackoverflow
1 message moved to Trash can
@pradeep this is not a question dumping ground.
07:03
How would you implement business logic splits for different users (experiment) ? I mean, is there any better way then just let the method go to configuration and check if this feature should work for current user?
07:16
So lets say users are signing up to bring food to a party, it gets save what food they are bringing in the DB and I was thinking about doing a like statement and if nothing is returned then it echoes out the item
I can't seem to get it right though
Can someone show me how I would do it?
Anyone?
07:32
hi to all
how to list sale products in magento
07:49
Alright, so I need 17 point ... !
1337 :)
08:11
Hi guys, How to convert mysql result set to array without using mysql_fetch_assoc() function? because this is not worked for me...
08:39
15 points now.
user652649
guys any suggestions about this http://pastebin.com/igbhRZ9h ?
i think it's subjective, right?
user652649
also morning
user652649
08:55
i mean the first one would only make sense if i want to make the instance immutable from the outside, but in that case i wouldn't have the "setSomething" method
The power operator is living up to its pow()erful nature of kicking up a fuss =p
What the ... how does Bill Gates appear twice in the list of people to follow on Twitter ...
09:32
@Jack operator power is proportional to mailing list input :-D
=D
For a moment there it seemed to become a dick measuring contest, like "who cares about your personal experience, VB rules the world biatch!"
gmp_pow() cannot handle a negative exponent ... oh fark.
go hunting @NikiC for that :-D
09:49
Oh, GMP only deals with integers, so that's absolutely fine >D
Let's start cracking then!
Who have Skype ?
microsoft , mostly
and, no, we will not "contact you on skype" to write free code for you
lol
10:09
@tereško I dont want you to write for me free code
Afternoon
0
Q: Can we varied a class name during creating a new object?

VinayI have two classes written on different php file having same name. I want to load one at a time. For this i search many places .. and i found this piece of code. I want can anybody elaborate what does it doing? $class= $this->controller.'Controller_'; $controller=new $class($this->registry); P...

he brings shame to your tribe
@tereško I almost want to wage war on his tribe.
Let me take out my bone spear.
10:25
some people seem to think that simply replacing words from language X with direct English translations will somehow, magically transform the sentence in proper English
A lot of people don't have English as their first language. That does not excuse bad grammar, but it's at least not as bad as naming variables and functions in language X
@bwoebi wow, that was easy :) github.com/datibbaw/php-src/commit/… cc:@nikic
Gives an odd error when you try to use negative exponent though hehe
main(): Shift cannot be negative in xyz.php
@AshwinMukhija english is my 4th language =P
@tereško Let me guess, your first language is PHP, right?
10:36
Second languages is MVC
@tereško Does it make sense to have a common ancestor for the M, V and C in a framework? Somewhat similar to the Object class in Java.
nope
while Vs and Cs are classes, M is not even a class, but a layer
and what would you views and controller have in common ?
But, the M is going to be implemented as a combination of DO and DM classes, right?
model can contain domain objects, mappers, services, table gateways, repositories, units of work and some other things .. it depends on how you actually implement it
Table gateways?
10:44
basically it is an alternative for mappers
Found it. So it's like a combination of mappers and services
it is more like and transitional form between active record and data mapper
You should write a book on MVC.
yeah , right
my self-confidence level is way too low for that
you communicate very precisely, you'd be a good technical writer I think ...
10:48
Blegh, stupid Wiki syntax.
Oh, when you start writing about something you know about, you can ramble on and on
... which is usually the exact opposite of "helpful"
Not necessary. It then depends on the level of knowledge you have.
Nobody wants to read a rambler :)
Rambling is a only a figure of speech in this case. When you are explaining something technical, you can keep it concise and at the same time, voluminous.
user924016
10:52
Mooorning
0
Q: Can't run exec()/shell_exec() on 1&1 server

DheedI'm trying to run a php file in background without success using one of those function: tets.php: <html> <head> </head> <body> <pre> <?php $ex='php5 -f /homepages/23/d293813614/htdocs/amazonmobilewebsites/extendedcomingsoon/admin/run.php'; exec...

I should better get back to reading something from Eric Evans .. that usually helps with disillusion of grandeur
@Jack All thanks to my awesome code :P
11:10
morning niki
Morning
morning @Joe
@LeviMorrison , why have you messed up the php.net search queries?
He wrote he tried everything and nothing works. There is any way, which should works, he is not asking - which is the best way... But OK, I do not need to argue with rep hunter users, your answers will be always the best solutions, of course. Bye. — user0000001 56 secs ago
sometimes I get this urge to strangle people
11:27
Do you think this could ever be useful?
class test {
    public function helloWorld() {
        echo "Hello World";
    }

    public function goodbyeWorld() {
        echo "Goodbye World";
    }
}

$test = new test()->helloWorld();
$test->goodbyeWorld();
This code looks dubious.
Good moring
@tereško There's a fine line between a coder and a psychopathic killer.
@AshwinMukhija I am not a psychopath. Only a sociopath .. there is a difference. (reference)
@NikiC Yes indeed :) just two lines!
One statement, really.
11:31
@tereško Sociopaths are one step away from being psychopaths
Hence, a fine line. :)
I know that reference, since I love that show.
I wish at least one person in my company be aware of SOLID. Every coffee time turns into junior php dev fighting with senior devs crowd, trying to prove that SOLID is not a bullshit and he didn't invent it himself
People tend to blindly defend code they've written if they believe they are good developers.
user924016
hehe
I don't see anything wrong with defending your code, but you have to acknowledge the scope for improvement if it is shown to you.
Yes, IE not blindly :)
11:39
Okay, but can someone PLEASE try and fix this. — user2999920 2 mins ago
No love for $test = new test()->helloWorld(); ?
I reckon that'd kill off a lot of static abuse.
@Fabien That code won't work.
How do you mean?
@Fabien The first day in a company 6 month ago... Coffee time... Was listeting to the discussion of older and wiser about MVC. Telling them "i'm sorry, did you mean MVP instead of MVC" was a mistake probably)))
Unless you return $this from the methods, you won't be able to chain them.
While it's cool I didn't know about $test = (new Test)->hello(); but I was thinking more about implementing the functionality so it does work.
It does work already. However, calling bye() on $test will fail;
Because hello() does not return anything.
@an1zhegorodov The senior/junior relationship works that way everywhere tbf. Not just development. The best thing to do is not to assert that you're right but accept you might be wrong. Research more to ensure your answer then leave it there.
@AshwinMukhija I guess it makes sense that if you're going to be making a call to a second method of the class you may as well instantiate it the normal way.
Thank you for showing me $test = (new test)->helloWorld(); though
Wonder why I don't see it more often? Is there any stigma?
11:48
There is.
$test is null.
But a simple change fixes that
class Test {
    public function hello() {
        echo "Hello";
        return $this;
    }
    public function bye() {
        echo "Bye";
        return $this;
    }
}
You can then do $test = (new Test)->hello()->bye();
And $test will still contain an instance of Test
Ah, interesting.
I can practically feel that someone is right now writing:
$group = (new Context)->get('User')->find($id)->group;
$username = (new Context)->get('User')->find($id)->name;
11:53
@tereško That's brilliant, specially in a loop.
Only 54% of Americans want airlines to ban in-flight calls ... apparently 46% has no problems with taking crying babies and adding (probably) loud phone calls ... =S
Because screw memory management.
@Jack No one respects the quiet carriage on trains too :(
new Name('Suhosin');
Also hi
Identity crisis? Not Sweetie Suhosin?
12:00
Just bringing this in line with Twitter.
@Fabian. .mayby you respectless amaricns .. over here in europ we know how to treat eachother :P
lol
We do?
Have you ever driven in Italy? :D
Italy is an exception though :)
mafiosas ..
Warning @tereško I am going to ask about MVC, please feel free to ignore :P
hmm ..
I probably will, if someone produces a good answer
12:04
@tereško Did you really have to implement a classloader in Fracture? You could convert it to PSR-0. :)
@AshwinMukhija .. now you are just being nasty
So after my mini-blunder with http/mvc/stateless-ness I wanted to ask/read about the impracticalities. Obviously http has no state. In regards to MVC state is required in the view(?) which in browser terms is mimicked by sessions/cookies. This is what invalidates the model here because sessions are stored server side and cookies can be disabled?
also, Fracture is currently messed up, because I started to rewrite Request class .. and got distracted for a month
@tereško No. I'm just suggesting improvements.
I'm just wondering if I am on the right lines...
I believe there's also some issues with being unable to tell when a session starts/ends from the browser end which also causes issues.
12:10
@Fabien the view is hooked up to the model via the controller/presenter, and data is not necessarily passed through the session/cookies, but it could be passed as template variables, for example you could use Mustache. While there is no way to update the view state with changes in the model, you could, theoretically implement it with socket programming.
but the means of having to repopulate the data atm is the issue?
@AshwinMukhija you must have missed those 10+ occasion when I have stated that PSR-0 is not compatible with PHP behavior
@tereško I must have. Why do you say that?
@Fabien Keeping data up to date between the model and view is currently an issue, yes.
php classes, namespaces, interfaces and traits are not case sensitive. This means that PSR-0/4 only supports PHP default behavior on windows (which has case-insensitive file system)
@tereško Oh, yes, I've actually faced that issue.
12:14
Between the model and the view? Not just simply in the view? IE changing pages on a form or something?
I am still trying to figure out what is Fabian's question ...
Basically just trying to understand why MVC is so impractical based on http's stateless nature.
I'm sure it's been explained to me but I just need to understand it more.
@NikiC The opcode ZEND_RECV_VARIADIC wasn't added to ext/vld; is that intentional? :)
the modern web is not really stateless
@Jack the ops list really should be generated via zend_vm_gen.php …
12:20
@tereško The protocol itself is stateless though
@bwoebi Does that also update vld though?
@Jack I mean there should be generated some static array the exts can use then
vld has its own.
the exts actually always needs updates if there is a new opcode
@Jack yeah, that's the problem: every extension must have and maintain its own list…
I see, so whoever maintains vld should update that?
12:23
Also isn't storing view state in session/cookies etc more like Web MVC (Model 2) ?
Oh, that would be Derick :)
@AshwinMukhija that only means that you are neither required to send request before nor after you send your cookies-containing-request
@Jack we have to maintain also such opcode lists in phpdbg or explain()
And if phpdbg ever gets integrated… we really should add that to zend_vm_gen…
because getting a ZEND_UNKNOWN opcode is not nice…
hehe
@tereško What holds state in modern web?
12:26
@Fabien Why do you think that the view holds a state?
@AshwinMukhija I'm not certain of anything by in my mind I have the example of a web form
multi page
well .. I'm no expert on this, but as I see it, the state is actually contained withing the requests
@Fabien cookies .. and session's that are also based on tied to cookies
@tereško Does that not fall under Web MVC rather than MVC though?
it has no impact on it
@tereško By that analogy, you are making stateful requests when you browse a static website?
12:28
Pedantically, cookies can be turned off too.
the problem with classical MVC is that it need a persistent model, which is kinda bitch to implement
@Fabien .. at which point you wont be able to use 99.99% of websites
turning off JS will have less impact on you then turning off cookies
@tereško yeah lol.
Well I think I have mostly got my thoughts together. I see the outlines of the issues, enough to hopefully not sound like a newb if asked about it.
@bwoebi Will phpdbg get pushed to pecl? :)
Hmm, btw, there's php-dbg too .. =/
Pretty cool I'd never use it but I could see it making money
@Jack No idea… They're talking about bundling it… not about pecl… so…
@Jack release date 2002.… ;-)
12:39
Hmm, that's true heh
@tereško You could implement polling, instead of persistent models
you can implement persistent model with sockets ... though it is highly impractical
Sockets are only part of it. How will you connect a socket to a database?
you mean websockets? :)
12:43
Which @rdlowrey is making :)
Yesh :D
Strange, my rfc magically went from draft to discussion ...
/me is currently looping this composition
shit got real @Jack
you cannot really refer to it as "song"
Databases themselves are just storage, so unless your assumption is that no data will ever come in through database imports/direct queries, you can implement a persistent model solely with sockets. Unless you implement a mechanism to ensure consistency between the database and the models themselves.
12:47
@AshwinMukhija model is not a "table abstraction"
@tereško instruments have a voice too ;-)
Though, the term song for an instrumental piece is not common I'd admit.
@tereško True, but your persistent models at the end would be table abstractions, even if it is implemented as a layer, instead of a class.
how ?! why ?
you are not making any sense
"persistent model" is a model that does not get destroyed after each request
it has no direct impact on how you work with database
And a persistent model will be persisted as what exactly?
saved where ?
why would you save an existing graph of live objects ?
it persists in MEMORY
it KEEPS RUNNING
12:54
good instrumental @tereško
That's the point. Your model persists in memory, but you need to keep it up to date with the database.
so how is that different from current work flow ?
It's not, except if you do polling, or you query the database to update the state of the model every time a request is made on that model, to ensure data consistency.
we seem to be talking about two completely different things
I said that persistent models, even if you implement them with sockets will not be a complete solution.

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