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8:00 PM
"rtfm" is not the same as "wtf it was that easy!"
 
Looks like having some private space between me and queen is going to cost me a lot
 
yeah
 
I think we can add examples...
 
@FirstStep You can start offers right now, though ;)
 
RTFM is rude i guess
 
8:01 PM
@Tuna the current meta points to the be-nice policy
 
@ColdFire Definitiely! But you can easily disguise these with helpful links.
 
which means ""If you don't have time to say something politely, just leave it for someone who does." <-- break that and it is an offensive flag
 
@TimCastelijns Sup
 
@TimCastelijns hey
 
@TimCastelijns Sup
 
8:02 PM
you were missed by queen
 
@Tunaki If I flagged a post for mod review, and it get's deleted in the VLQ queue, does the flag result in helpful?
 
I mean if we ask "Is "stop dumping homework here and rtfm" rude?", that's just goinf to duplicate lots of other posts...
 
@PetterFriberg Be nice basically. DVs and CVs aren't going against that rule, no matter how much newbies complain about that.
 
The status-quo is that nobody agrees...
 
@πάνταῥεῖ I agree in fact this is what you should do not pass a snarky comment
 
8:03 PM
@Tunaki well replace RTFM by RTM
 
@ColdFire Better replace with a link as mentioned.
 
@Tunaki Find me meta on that... my idea is to included a lot of similar border line examples
 
@πάνταῥεῖ yeah that was a joke
 
@ColdFire I'm old not dumb, or lacking sense of humor! (You're not allowed to cite that)
 
@πάνταῥεῖ i guess lacking sense of humour
 
8:06 PM
@Tuna basically my idea is to push for the removal of all that stuff, that we get declined flag is ridiculous.. if it is not well then explain it to me...
 
ok gn people have to go to office tomorrow
 
I'll search for posts yes
But if we want to post something, it should be something that is intended to change the status-quo.
 
@TimCastelijns taylor guy where are you
@Tunaki
@FrankerZ
 
@Tunaki You see my last message?
Now that we're in nightcore mode
 
8:09 PM
@FrankerZ no
mod flag is still pending, whatever happens to the post
unless a mod acted on it
 
You're absolutely sure?
 
well gn song for you guys
gn all
 
Night
 
@Tunaki That is my objective... push the bar down... if you have ideas for me perfect
 
@FrankerZ Yeah.
 
8:10 PM
If you like to setup meta ok, I can give you examples since I have been saving some goodies.. (border-line) stuff
 
@FrankerZ Cya
 
@FrankerZ I did see it.. and forgot about it :) thanks for reminding..
 
@PetterFriberg Leaving?
 
@PetterFriberg actually he is not i am sleeping
 
8:11 PM
lol I saw Night : )
 
@πάνταῥεῖ i see , will watch tomorrow
thanks
 
@Tunaki It appeared to have gone helpful after the post was deleted. Just wanted to make sure the mods acted on it, because the flag wasn't really related to the post.
 
@ColdFire ok, then sleep well!
 
I was saying night to cf
lol
 
well if you want any help regarding meta you can ask us @PetterFriberg
 
8:12 PM
@FrankerZ what was the flag about?
 
The review queue guy
 
@ColdFire Thanks
 
ah the robo from this morning?
well then you can be rest assured that they're banned from reviewing now :p
 
@Tuna you like to setup the meta?
 
I need to search for existing ones and set up a context
I am honestly not sure what to ask right now.
 
8:15 PM
For me important is to solve the border-line ones (and I have examples of them) and to know what to do about the fuck ones...
 
For now, I see like a n-th "Is it okay to post answers to dupe questions?"
:)
 
Yeah maybe, but mods are declining flag so they are saying it's ok
remeber the spam/abusive flag problem... 1 meta seemed to have solved that issue
 
strictly speaking
it was only solved because Undo had a strong opinion on it
and it spread through the mods in general
 
since I do not want to go after mod (complaining about flags), instead I want to create community consence and discussion on it
 
the 'official' is still flagging as NAA... (and that mods won't decline or dispute offensive - which isn't quite the same as saying they'll accept offensive)
 
8:19 PM
@Tunaki Yeah because they speak about the problem, I think same is with comments. THe only stuff we need (that is not in current meta), is examples... we need to cover all of the basic border-line stuff
 
Gathering real examples sounds nice yes.
 
I have already started that...
I have been thinking about this for awhile, but need the stack app post, since I do not lilke the meta to be about the project, but only about the classifying...
 
yes
 
I will continue on my stuff some, then push it to git, but for me it ok if you like to take control of post and target it to make change...
 
[ Heat Detector ] SCORE: 5 ★★ (Regex:true NaiveBayes:0.99 J48:0.05 OpenNLP:0.01) comment cc: @PetterFriberg @FrankerZ
 
8:23 PM
@queen fp
@Tuna we should also involve @AndrasDeak in this post, since he stands on the tough side : )
 
good night
 
Oh, the page just loaded
 
@FirstStep N8. Dream of queenie
 
lol
 
8:25 PM
alright I'm going to start a dump list of related Meta, not necessatily in any order
 
I was replying to @ColdFire
 
and as a find them
33
Q: What to do when users do not understand/appreciate constructive feedback?

SmokeDispenserEdit: since the question is gone, for reasons of documentation and making this thread useful for future readers, I'm adding a photo of the thread I took with my phone from when I flagged OPs comment. This question thread, especially this comment is really disappointing. edit: The comment from ...

 
@πάνταῥεῖ relax okay :P It is still an afternoon :P I will day dream of her
 
I already have had lots of discussions with Andras and I think he is good to provide insights in this matter
 
12
Q: When should comments be flagged as "not constructive"?

StijnI flagged two comments in IE ignores my js If IE ignores your JS, let your JS ignore IE as well! and If you're sure that your javascript setting in IE was on but your script doesn't run,, just uninstall your IE, and try running with other cool browser like chrome and mozilla. It's easy....

 
8:27 PM
SmokeDispenser : )... the security guy
 
@FirstStep Ah, thought you will get out. It's 22:27 here though.
Stay in
 
@Tunaki You need to find the high rep users snarky stuff : )...
 
9
Q: At what point are comments classified as rude or offensive for off-topic questions

phwdI'm honestly looking for some advice on flagging comments, my perspective may need a little refresher. I came across this question Cant change my Username which was off-topic, so I left a comment stating that Stack Overflow is a site for programming questions, not end user support. Though a littl...

 
I was replying to Cold fire, but when I hit the enter all the later chat popped up. Don't know. Anyway wuhuuu not leaving yet
 
16
Q: What does Stack Overflow do about users who are very rude?

l46kokI asked a question today about WPF Binding, and then a user (55k reputation, so I assume a fairly active one) promptly answered my question. But he proceeded to leave comments like "Why don't you read the documentation next time and save us all the trouble?" I eventually just got tired of the c...

 
8:31 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ
 
@Tunaki Actually this is interesting since Jan did realize that with "not code writing service" he as being a bit rude...
 
I just noticed that you are in Germany. My favorite second country
 
9
Q: Are "tl;dr" comments considered rude and/or are they discouraged?

keyserI know that comments doesn't have to be very constructive, and I have to admit I leave some "google it"-like comments every now and then, but is it frowned upon to leave a "tl;dr"-type (too long;didn't read) comment? Just to make myself perfectly clear: Scenario 1: A person asks a very complex...

174
Q: What's with all the rude comments recently?

tvanfossonMaybe I've led a sheltered life until recently, but it really seems that comments are getting ruder and ruder. I've seen on questions by new users (rep of 1), particularly those for whom English is a second language, that people are really quick to put in a comment like: "Worst question ever" or...

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
83
Q: The rudeness on Stack Overflow is too damn high

Konrad RudolphWe’ve been there, we’ve done that. I know. But I have to air a feeling of powerlessness against certain disruptive users, and I think that Stack Overflow should have a better mechanism of mitigating this. Case in point: the (quickly deleted) question Why does two tasks created after each other ...

 
@Tunaki post was posted in Aug 18 '09 lol "recently"
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
very good one
I'll quote
> The excessive rudeness has been discussed numerous times before, but there seems to be no answer to it. No matter how many times downvotes are applied, questions closed and comments supplied, more and more rude and insulting questions are posted.
note the duality between rude comment in respond to question and rude questions to begin with
v--------------------------- FAQ -----------------v
61
Q: Etiquette for posting civil and informative comments

Robert HarveySometimes I leave a comment like "Stack Overflow is not your personal research assistant," but am accused of being rude. How can I craft a comment that is seen as civil to the community and instructive to the OP? What tone should I strike in comments? What are some examples of bad comments and...

 
8:35 PM
[ Heat Detector ] SCORE: 9 ★★★★ (Regex:true NaiveBayes:1.00 J48:0.99 OpenNLP:0.96) comment cc: @PetterFriberg @FrankerZ - tp
 
^------------------------- FAQ --------------------------------------^
 
I hope that's not the FAQ
 
faq proposed
the best after
 
@queen tp
 
someone mod flagging report above?
 
8:36 PM
3 deleted comments now
make that 4 probably
 
Tunaki: stackoverflow.com/questions/38905550/… needs to be deleted asap.
Rude/Abusive. Porn images
 
[ Heat Detector ] SCORE: 9 ★★★★ (Regex:true NaiveBayes:1.00 J48:0.99 OpenNLP:0.98) comment cc: @PetterFriberg @FrankerZ
[ Heat Detector ] SCORE: 4 ★★ (Regex:false NaiveBayes:1.00 J48:0.99 OpenNLP:0.84) comment cc: @PetterFriberg @FrankerZ
 
oh fuck
 
I have no more flags
 
well ut's gone
mod nuked
@FrankerZ I didn't see the image!
 
8:37 PM
Is that a !!/report ?
It was a penis
 
already nuked
 
Well, if it wasn't already nuked
 
Yeah
clearly
 
in no way is that a serious question
@PetterFriberg A mod must have flagged as rude / spam
 
8:38 PM
You can't see it?
 
it kills directly the post and it sits at -1
and the user is destroyed now
all good
so, where was I
 
You can't see rude/abusive posts that are deleted?
 
@Franker hit the "and as find them" with a star... so we have the start of Tuna's meta search
 
@FrankerZ I can
So yeah, the FAQ
just read the comments there, you'll see how tricky the thing is
and then you have the 'safe post'
-2
Q: Comment deleted; what should I have done? Do I have right of reply?

davmacI just had a comment (on an answer) removed, possibly for being offensive, because the person who commented told me that they flagged it as such. I do not have the precise wording of my comment to hand, but the comment I responded to was: [some snipped] You could just check it, you know. I ...

-14
Q: LMGTFY link can't be added

vaultahI tried to paste a link to lmgtfy.com as the comment and I got this error: Why is LMGTFY considered bad and are there any other types of content comments can't contain?

the fact that the question exists shows that people want to leave those comments
 
@JohnDibling: I agree with you, but the powers-that-be do not. SE wants warm-fuzzy. — Robert Harvey Jun 29 '12 at 18:29
 
8:44 PM
^ yep
 
@Tunaki That post seems to contradict this one: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/317611/4174897
 
in the end mods are maybe conflicted themselves
@FrankerZ it does? how?
one is about comments, the other posts
 
Whoops
The link in one of the comments linked to this
 
-17
Q: Are we getting overly aggressive in comments towards homework questions (again)?

MakotoThere was a relatively basic question (10K users only) posted on SO today, and I had made a comment in hopes of prodding the asker to a solution. I came back to it about ten minutes later and saw this comment, which had five upvotes: Assignment doesn't count as a question... Please rea...

 
But take a look at those 2 posts
 
8:47 PM
@FrankerZ that post wasn't offensive
 
Was it random gibberish. I can't see it (Not in the 10k club yet)
That's what I was assuming
 
nope
it was
 
k, nevermind then
 
> Do nothing.
> Watch them burn.
> EDIT:
> Jeez, it was a joke :p
 
goes back to corner and lies down
 
8:49 PM
and somehow very related
363
Q: Should we add a "Do my work for me" close reason?

BohemianThis question was prompted by this SO question It's a classic example of a "paste in requirements and ask for working code to solve it" (typically such questions are homework, but not always). Firstly, do we all agree these questions are off topic? Secondly, if they are, how to close, because ...

62
Q: Is this constructive or am I just being rude?

asawyerIn this question: TextBoxFor displaying initial value, not the value updated from code I left the following comment: @AdrienTancrez Stop being a cargo cult programmer. Read the documentation and fully understand what you are doing. The issue you are running into here is because you don'...

afk a bit, lots of Meta..........
 
@Tunaki Yeah lots of meta my conclusion is that we are right these comments should be burned and we can be much tougher.. so why the heck to you decline a non constructive flag mod?... but I do not like to put it like this... I like to open the discussion among mods... gain support from SE to delete this snarky non-constructive crap... How to do this...
meeh my idea was to ask on how to classify showing examples of declined flags, border line stuff... but if you manage to have a better approach for change I'm all in
 
@PetterFriberg Still a bit afk but because the status-quo is
Grow a thicker skin!
Pretty much
 
Yeah, lets fight it... with logic...
 
@Tunaki I'm getting at rhino state right now, and the horn seems to get useful as it grows right now ;P
 
@Tunaki To tell the truth I had a long discussion also with Wayne Conrad, he is also very close to my idea, these comments should go... we should stop the grow skin issue at least on SO (for when your are btk)
Just burn'em all quickly... "If you don't have time to say something politely, just leave it for someone who does." of your comment will go up in flames...
 
9:02 PM
@Ferrybig Sup
 
@Hatman Welcome my friend
 
@Ferrybig I am your friend.
 
@Hatman That's just a confirmation of what I just stated
 
@Ferrybig Yes, it is.
 
@Hatman And now you're doing it again
 
9:03 PM
@Ferrybig What am I doing again?
 
@Hatman confirmation
 
@Ferrybig What beautiful memories you have?
 
@Hatman And like usual, you just jump subject
 
@Ferrybig How many humans do you know that are green.
 
@Hatman If humans are green, it usualy means they are sick
 
9:04 PM
@Ferrybig I mean poems and jokes.
 
Why?
 
@FrankerZ I like talking to bots
Smokey has a !!/report command to report posts in chat if he doesn't detect them quickly, works in the SOCVR and Charcoal.
 
Yeah
I need to do that
Instead
 
[ Heat Detector ] SCORE: 4 ★★ (Regex:true NaiveBayes:0.00 J48:0.00 OpenNLP:0.06) comment cc: @PetterFriberg @FrankerZ
[ Heat Detector ] SCORE: 4 ★★ (Regex:true NaiveBayes:0.00 J48:0.07 OpenNLP:0.00) comment cc: @PetterFriberg @FrankerZ
 
@queen fp : )
 
9:11 PM
@PetterFriberg Can you flag VLQ: stackoverflow.com/a/38905218/4875631
 
so you know what @Petter
I have an idea
 
all ears
 
Let us lower our bar, the lowest level of all
 
Just throw shit at all the first posters?
 
9:13 PM
After all, every single official post is clear and SO rule are clear: don't comment or make it constructive
 
hmm that's lots of work...you remeber we moved stuff from bad to good : )
 
so I would flag everything fitting the 'not constructive' criteria
declined or not
collect the ones that are declined
perform stats on it
and then maybe ask on Meta depending on the result
It could be that they will be declined in majority or, at least, is a large percentage
if that happens, we have something to ask: why the heck?
 
hmm I think 1 specific mod is declining the flag... but often deleting the stuff and this strategy is more a post of "Mods you are doing it wrong" I would like it to be more "Let stop it with this crap, help me out"
hence I would avoid "Who is the mod that is denying these flags"...
 
well we wouldn't focus on a mod in particular. But in general, if flags are declined, you shouldn't have flagged
 
and set a good base line for what is not constructive like "20-50 border line comments" that according to rules are non-friendly...
hmm Tuna, the post seems anyway like "read this mod" and now tell me how you could deny this flag.
 
9:19 PM
"Let stop it with this crap, help me out" --> not everyone agree it's crap, is the issue...
 
I wanted more a community support, to remove these comments (and a background discussion among mods as for the offensive flag)
Then let'em answer... and tell us why... I have some really good users that can answer if no mod or SE chip in
I'm not really in for "Hey these flags should not be declined"
but I will think about it...
Imagine that we give 50 borderline comments in code snippet (that are non constructive)... now tell me which comment is not... am I wrong...
 
the answer will be 'all of them'
you know it
 
I would expect the answer to be "burn'em all", which means that we have meta that say burn'em... i
and in background we have moderators that will discuss this...
 
in practice, does it mean flagging them would result in deletion?
 
since some comments are declined flags..
 
9:24 PM
the whole thing in the status-quo is that they are a lot of unsaid things
what is said is that all of them are not constructive
 
like?
 
what is done is blurrier
 
meh 50 comments would cover pretty much all examples...
I'm really skeptic about hey you decline this flags post... but I will think about it...
 
The idea with collecting the helpful / declined flags on those would be to show that, in practice, the majority of those comments are deleted.
I hope.
 
Well already since for example in my case I have had helpful flag on exact same comment
so mods think and act differently which is ok for me...
Lets teach them right, lets give bad users (that pass these comments on posts) something to read.
If we do a good meta (with only minor mentioning that mods are declining these flags), I actually think we have hope that a mod will answer.
And we already know what the answer will be!!!!
 
9:30 PM
Yeah.
Ok.
 
if mod answer incorrectly you can bet that SE will chip in
 
Ok Petter. Sounds better.
Simple, non-opinionated post
 
I will continue some with my stuff, then pass it on to you... like the "request for feed"
 
Here's a list of real world comments that are posted every day on the site, is this ok? do we flag? Why are some of those flag declined?
 
if you like to post it for me perfect, you have more force then me
@Tunaki exactly
 
9:32 PM
ok that sounds great
 
we need to know since we are classifying this stuff, checking our decline flags does not really help : )
also checking bluefeet's feed does not really help : )
 
not that far from my idea, but more centered on concrete daily stuff (and we need to emphasize, really daily stuff)
because we'll still collect in some way the declined ones :)
 
give me a week then I pass on some raw stuff to you...
 
9:59 PM
[ Heat Detector ] SCORE: 5 ★★ (Regex:true NaiveBayes:0.00 J48:0.06 OpenNLP:0.96) comment cc: @PetterFriberg @FrankerZ
 

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