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12:04 AM
@Trowski is that from the place i worry it might be from?
 
@MarkR Yep
 
1:00 AM
@Trowski why
Also
Apr 26, 2018 at 13:25, by Tiffany
static function All($class)
{
  eval('$all = '.$class.'::$all;');
  if ( ! $all )
  {
    eval('$all = self::findAll('.$class.');');
    eval($class.'::$all = $all;');
  }
  return $all;
}
 
 
11 hours later…
cmb
11:56 AM
@MateKocsis, about [#\ReturnTypeWillChange]: is that supposed to be effectless as of PHP 9.0.0?
 
@cmb I don't think we should do that as of PHP 9 yet. That functionality is the only thing allowing to implement the interfaces spanning many versions - realistically, when PHP 9 comes out many people will still be on e.g. 7.4. I'd rather target version 10 here.
 
cmb
Right; I'm also concerned about exactly this. I just fixed 2 doc examples, and deleted user notes which brought that up. And in this case it was about mixed which is only available as of PHP 8.0.0.
 
12:27 PM
The same with [#\DynamicProperties]... ?
 
@Derick I see no reason why this should ever be removed?
 
JRL
Yeah, that seems like the kind of thing that is going to fester forever in the language, like declare(strict_types=1)
it is annoying to me as a PHP developer that developers working on libraries are so much more interested in cross-version compatibility than the support life. i know libraries that still try to support all the way down to 5.6
 
@JRL /me waves in PHP 5.4. But I think we're a point where we're phasing PHP 5 out all over the board by now. I think realistic lifetimes of code is anywhere between 7-10 years.
 
JRL
yeah
it would make more sense to me if like... there was only one version people can use
but people can use older versions of a library for older versions of the language
 
@JRL for open source, sure. But then there are businesses, which want to sell products, which have to integrate with outdated versions.
And businesses obviously don't want to sell outdated versions of their code.
 
JRL
12:38 PM
heh
you're right of course, but i don't see why not. outdated versions have a great return on investment if you can sell them
which you could by rebranding the external versioning system
 
@JRL Yes, but you have to provide support and bugfixes. Unless you want to maintain X different branches. At which point it's easier to just consolidate it in a single branch most of the time.
 
@JRL Wait until this Thursday's phpnews podcast episode...
 
 
2 hours later…
2:32 PM
How would you define the difference between a Service and a Feature in software?
Eg: Would it make sense to rename Service Providers to Feature Providers?
If not, how do you define "Service"?
Perhaps as someone whose english is not the mother language, the sentence "service providers" doesn't come naturally - it involves a cognitive load to map it to a meaning - but it starts to make sense when thinking at it quite literally, as "provider of X" - so the key is not the "Service", but X. FooServiceProvider - the key is Foo
Just "Service Provider" doesn't make any sense without what it is providing, like Foo
I think this is where my confusion comes.
 
2:59 PM
I'll rename "ServiceProvider" to "Provider", so that FooServiceProvider becomes simply FooProvider
 
JRL
3:52 PM
you know, the most nervous i've ever been with an open source function i wrote was writing something to generate random numbers
because it's so easy to accidentally introduce bias
 
 
2 hours later…
6:09 PM
Keep adding sources of random and eventually you'll stumble upon a hidden variable for measuring half life.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:49 PM
3v4l.org/E6Y9V - Is there a particular reason why EnumName::Foo->value would work normally but not in an attribute?
 
@Crell -> is not supported in constant expressions -- yet
There's an issue about it
 
Ah ha.
 
And I even commented on it. :-)
 
Heh
 
7:55 PM
Thanks. (The question came up in a Symfony issue.)
 
8:31 PM
Anyone here using Jest and Selenium that can point me to a working config? I'm brand new to JS testing and am having a hard time getting the config working.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:47 PM
@DaveRandom I actually went to check whether you renamed the room in the URL or whether it's actually named that way :-D
 
JRL
11:35 PM
I find myself going in a circle
"I can provide a better math library through a self-contained addition, which will make it easier to include than the contentious things I keep coming across"
"If I do that, people are going to ask why it should be in core instead of an extension, so maybe I should make it an extension first even if math should be something the language itself supports."
"Well, to actually do some of these things I need to do things that can't be done in extensions."
"Okay, maybe I can improve extensions so that I can do the step that I would prefer to avoid but that will probably be necessary because of the RFC process."
"Alright, well actually, that might also be a lot of effort and this is like three layers removed from what I want to do, I should work on the math stuff again."
then back to the beginning
 
Are you talking to yourself?
 
JRL
yes
i've appologized to the room for that before... it's a common failing of mine
:)
 

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