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4:26 AM
sometimes, on windows, I `git add .` in a legacy project where having exactly what is present in the filesystem is actually primordial. sometimes, that's long, because git will list warnings for bad line endings for each file, which can be crippingly long. I,m trying to find windows equivalents for `> /dev/null` but the readily available `> NUL` or `> nul` (in case these are different) return `out-file : FileStream was asked to open a device that was not a file.`.

so. how's one supposed to ignore a command's output on windows. or, alternatively, is there a way to instruct git not to whine
it's impressive that literally every formatting attemps in my previous message failed
not a single word between backticks worked
 
4:39 AM
(if you're keeping track at home: using git config core.autocrlf false prevented the git command from generating output but it's really not faster, maybe the problem is the filesystem sigh)
 
 
5 hours later…
9:11 AM
eugh, I hate hate hate git's whole line-ending handling; like so many "automatic" systems, it's well-intentioned, but incredibly irritating
consistent line endings should be the responsibility of the IDE / editor, and code review tooling, not the version control system
also CR should be a syntax error in every compiler, and the problem would go away pretty quickly :P
 
 
1 hour later…
10:13 AM
Also fun if you have a format like Makefile in the repo that requires a specific line ending format
 
\o
 
 
1 hour later…
11:22 AM
@AllenJB you can use .gitattributes to set the line ending for specific file names git-scm.com/docs/gitattributes
just don't do what I did and accidentally set it for image files
 
 
2 hours later…
1:01 PM
morning, am here to complain again on PHP, union types are pretty cool, but inability to test ($foo instanceof Foo|Bar) is so fking annoying, and when there's more than just 3 any assertion or conditions based on types are waste of chars in code :D
 
Well there was work to do an is T construct in PHP but implementation details were the problem IIRC
But we're aware of the problem lol
 
anyone heard on some ideas to invent some kind of construct like ($foo is Foo|Bar) ... new modern allowing unions and intersections?
Oh, thanks
it'd be lovely
sometimes I got a feeling like functionalities land in new PHP versions but all around is still missing modernizing because of these new functionalities
like the above example
 
You can't shove new features onto long time users at once, also I would think it avoids a lot of bike shedding
 
1:46 PM
But then you got a new feature which is exciting but in practice you find out missing points, then you have to wait unless a year for next release
You start feeling frustrated because finally get nice tools but likely to pew on thei'r use
 
the flipside is that you get a year to think about exactly how the extra bits should work
long proposals with lots of fiddly sub-features are quite hard to discuss, because it's easy to get distracted by a discussion on one part and miss a big design flaw in another
 
there's always field to complain, some projects don't have constant maintenance budget
 
PHP definitely suffers from a lack of longer-term planning, though - no road map, no tracking of "future scope" from one RFC to the next
 
releasing sort of experimental features sooner might help?
yes
exactly this is what's struggling me, got a time and budget to make a refactor on some bigger project, then I sit on it excited to use some new features, start using them then realise that this is missing, this is not possible, etc. and I know in mind that for a long time won't have the opportunity to sit on it whenever the missing pieces land in language
 
yeah, I can definitely sympathise with that
 
1:53 PM
the awareness of missing pieces and that they might also never come to the language
is awful
at least with a roadmap I could put a comment in some places, a // TODO: saying what to do next when updating
 
indeed
the problem is we have no leadership structure to define and implement that roadmap, just a bunch of people scratching their own itches
 
yeah, but how likely could that change?
not possible I guess
 
no, it would need quite a dramatic change in the project culture, to accept some kind of "steering committee"
and, of course, money, since those people would need to be working on it a significant proportion of their time
it might be possible to agree a roadmap without any of that, but when I've mentioned the idea in the past the response has been a resounding silence
 
I mean, I have a personal road map on things I want to work related to the type system
But I don't have the time really this year until June
There was also the ADT roadmap, but that got pushed off the rails due to IluTov's illness
 
More thorough RFC's which cover edge cases would help, but I guess this would also slow down the release process and add bike shed
 
2:13 PM
@Girgias That and also I'm still somewhat unsure how the matching/extracting of values should work and whether full pattern matching is worth it.
 
@IluTov Fair, but I for sure got distracted/burnt out on working on the type system ._.
 
@IluTov I've found that even a simple instanceof type match would be helpful. Expanding that into extraction is also good, but there's benefit even before that.
 
@Crell I think it could make sense to introduce ADTs without pattern matching or any fancy syntax first. Then we can see if it's necessary.
 
I agree, both can be added separately in any order. They're just both better when combined, which is a good thing.
Do you have any capacity to get back to either at the moment?
@brzuchal wiki.php.net/rfc/pattern-matching - That's the RFC that @IluTov and I had designed along with enums, although it was not fully implemented and not yet proposed.
 
@Crell Yes I do, it's all about what I want to work on now :P I was doing some thinking about accessors but Nikita and Bob weren't happy with my suggestion ^^ So unless I find a good solution I'll switch over to something else.
 
2:25 PM
What were you thinking about with accessors?
 
2 days ago, by IluTov
@bwoebi You're familiar with Nikitas property accessor RFC right? Is it correct that `$foo->bar[] = 'baz';` requiring references and not going to the `set`ter was the primary reason he wasn't happy with it? I think I might have an idea to get around this, but I'm not sure if it makes any sense at all. The goal is semantics like Swift where instead of the value being modified in place if is copied, modified and then passed to the getter. https://gist.github.com/iluuu1994/ffaff27dc1177bb130c973a6e7757072
 
Ah.
Well, my php-src code skillz are still nothing useful, but I'm happy to help in other ways if you figure out what you want to work on. :-) I think pattern matching or ADTs are both perfectly good options, though I also have my functional punch-list if I could bribe someone into helping with that...
 
@Crell Well the relevant part is this gist. gist.github.com/iluuu1994/ffaff27dc1177bb130c973a6e7757072 Swift creates a copy of the value and then passes it to the setter. Nikita and Bob aren't happy with the implicitness of the performance overhead of the copy.
 
If clap you clap want clap to help clap write clap some clap documentation.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk
 
She lives! Were you still interested in helping with pipes? :-)
 
2:37 PM
I'll poop out some code, but I've lost the heart for fighting for it
 
:-(
I had a thought on it, actually, after seeing some Elixir code. The previous version envisioned the RHS being a callable. What Elixir apparently does is take an actual syntactic function call, MINUS its first argument, which gets provided by the LHS. Would that make any sense for PHP?

For example, this: `$foo |> bar(1, 2)` would be equivalent to `bar($foo, 1, 2)` instead of `bar(1, 2)($foo)`.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, but felt it was worth mentioning.
 
I really yearn the time I can go back to writing C code, because I'm loathing dependent type theory and theorem provers atm
 
LOL.
 
@Crell I dislike the magic that lhs is simply injected at first arg
@Girgias C's type theory is basically "Can it be stored in memory? Okay."
 
@Sara exactly just let me do stuff
 
2:47 PM
The main advantage to it would be that you don't need to have a "higher order factory" function to prepare something for a pipe. (My Crell/fp library is basically a long list of those, and there's a lot of ceremony to eliminate.)
 
C++11 has made me a convert. C is far too chaotic
@Crell And main disadvantage is: Magic.
Why first arg? Why not second? Or last?
 
Yeah, that's the downside. But it could be a performance improvement since it would eliminate a need to call a function to return a function.
'course, had PFA passed that would be a solved problem.
 
That said.... I've seen angry C++ templates who's sole purpose it breaking out of type jail. My favorite being:
template <typename NoSeriously, typename DontCare>
NoSeriously sudo_make_ma_a(const DontCare& whatever) {
union {
DontCare a;
NoSeriously b;
} pivot;
pivot.a = whatever;
return pivot.b;
}
Then you can:
auto fine = sudo_make_me_a<someRandoType>(thatThatIsWrong);
 
You know, maybe the original design of PHP which said fuck type theory wasn't that bad
 
Actual template was slightly more involved as it had to work with varying type sizes and other things, but that was the jist, and that was definitely the name.
 
2:52 PM
@Sara "I don't like magic" "I like C++" Ok pick a side.
 
C++ isn't magic, it's madness.
 
any fixed position like that is going to be inconvenient for some built-in functions, e.g. $foo |> str_replace('a', 'b', $$) is much more useful than $foo |> str_replace($$, 'a', 'b')
 
There's a difference between Arcana and Chaos.
@Crell We can improve the internal efficiency of 1st class callables if they turn out to be popular.
Actually, I don't know that they aren't efficient, I haven't looked at the implementation.
 
@Girgias What I've learned over the years is that you can have a successful language that has no types, or very robust types. It's the in-between "kinda typed" that sucks. PHP manages to dance around that by having the choice of no types or kinda-typed, which gives you an escape hatch.
 
I do know that $foo = $bar |> baz(...); gets us a long way along, and expanding that to full PFAs would nail it.
 
2:54 PM
@IMSoP Unfortunately I think the $$ is a band-aid for a bad standard library.
 
@Sara It's not FCCs I'm concerned about. It's these: github.com/Crell/fp/blob/master/src/array.php
 
@IluTov So let's write the standard library (aaaaand, I just got BINGO)
 
@Crell that's true, but I tell you, pure functional dependent type theory language is where madness resides
 
It's an area I want to learn more about. :-)
 
@Crell looking at the match section I feel like it ought to be like that from the beginning without the need for 'is' keyword (I mean match () is {} without the is part
 
2:56 PM
@Crell If you want to lose your sanity, it's a great place to do it
 
@brzuchal Maybe, but that ship has sailed.
 
@Crell I'm not saying we're good as-is, I'm just saying I'd rather the solution were less magic.
 
I was drafting a switch statement proposal before the match expression which would do what match does now leaving match for pattern matching
now it's too late for the change
@Crell yes, but that's sad and bothers me
too bad
 
@IluTov I'm not sure that's necessarily true; no set of functions can predict every possible use
 
I feel like I should raise voice about that louder back then
 
2:59 PM
My side mental project is figuring out how you would write a language that has objects but no methods, because |> keyed off first argument would work for any type automatically. So pipe is method, and all functions are methods.
Wouldn't fly in PHP today, of course, but I think if designed for that originally it would be cool.
 
@IMSoP I generally don't think that you should be able to use the pipe operator for different parameter positions. Something like $str |> contains($bar) is easy to understand. $bar |> contains($str, $$) results in more cognitive overhead. There should always be a clear "subject", if there isn't piping is probably not something you should do. That's why I'd probably prefer a fixed set of methods that work on some scalars, like strings and arrays.
 
Easier first-class higher order functions would work there as well.
 
I don't know, left-to-right is generally easier to read than nesting; e.g. return formatPrice(getPrice(getProduct()) + 1, 2); vs return getProduct() |> getPrice($$) |> $$ + 1 |> formatPrice($$, 2);
 
One of the many reasons I want to have a pipe operator. :-) It's a small addition that offers a ton of power. (Though I have since concluded that we also would want a concat operator.)
 
@Sara heck, I could live with a new standard library and "corrected" parameter orders, if we had something like declare(new_parameter_orders=true) on a per-file basis for 5-7 years (after which the declare would become redundant).
 
3:09 PM
@Crell would that be like preparing a pipe but not passing into the LHS yet?
 
Then you still need to remember the param order. I'd rather move the subject to the LHS of a pipe so that it's completely obvious.
@IMSoP github.com/Crell/fp/blob/master/src/composition.php - Both compose() and pipe() are things that are useful. pipe() is, IME, more important, but compose() is also important. (I previously thought short lambdas was enough for us to not need compose(), but I now think that's wrong and a first-class compose operator would also be useful.)
 
@bwoebi I think that's a bad idea, just sharing code suddenly becomes dangerous. Scalar methods fix that problem in a nicer way (at least for those kinds of functions).
 
@Crell is that a yes?
 
It would work better with array functions (type error when passing the array to the wrong position) but pretty fatal for string functions.
 
it's hard to picture what that compose() function does without an example
 
3:17 PM
@IMSoP Essentially, yes. :-) See "A composition operator" in this article for how the two would get used together: peakd.com/hive-168588/@crell/aoc2021-review
 
Can anyone help me with this issue i'm trynna solve?

I need to create one main array that has all the keys and values of other arrays. Basically if there is data in the reference array then add that to the main array, if there is no data, continue to the next one until the main array has all the possible data combined from all the arrays.

Basically i need to map the structure of an external database. Some reference arrarys have empty values and others have arrays inside of arrays so it has to be recursive.
 
@IMSoP More specifically, pipe is compose($list_of_fns)($lhs_arg); At least conceptually.
 
gotcha :)
 
@drpzz My first question is why. That seems like a wasteful thing to do, and using big nested arrays is almost always the wrong approach.
@IMSoP But really, read that whole article if you want to know my over-arching plan/desire which I have no ability to implement myself. :-(
 
It's so that we could have a structure of the database for importing data. There is no documentation. I need to know all the possible keys and values which we can then map with out own database
 
3:22 PM
@drpzz What are you trying to achieve
 
Importing data from an external database that has no API nor documentation
 
What kind of database
 
A products database where there is a partner program but there is n api
It's for my client
 
That's not what I meant
 
@drpzz I'd break it down this way: given a "target" array and a "source" array, loop over the "source" array; for each key, you have three possibilities: it doesn't exist in the "target", so just copy it; it does and is a simple value, so add it to the list of possible values for that key; or it does and is an array, so you need to do something more clever
 
3:25 PM
Is it a relational database or a nosql database
 
relational
but the data is coming in a nested format
 
get the simple cases working first, and then think about what you want to happen with nested arrays; which is probably just to call the same function recursively, until it gets to a non-array value
 
there is no database connection directly, data is coming from the fetch request which the store itself uses to print data
@im
 
@drpzz then don't mention the database, it's a distraction; just say you have some API responses that you're trying to analyze
breaking the problem down is always the key
 
exactly
 
3:27 PM
Yeah my bad
 
@Crell We have a concat operator, it's called .
Unless you mean something like the unhinged screed I just sent to internals@
 
@IMSoP Thats what i've been trying to do haha
 
ooh, can we overload the + operator to combine functions? ;)
 
 
3:32 PM
@drpzz step 1: foreach ( $source as $key => $value ) { if ( ! isset($target[$key]) ) { $target[$key] = $value; } }
step 2, change to $target[$key] = [ $value ]; so each key has a list of values, and add else { $target[$key][] = $value; }
then add a check for is_array($value), and do something like $target[$key] = merge_recursively($target[$key], $value);
 
@IMSoP Ughh.. let me process this haha, thank you though
 
fwiw - binary ~ operator is still free for use
 
@Sara Function concat. I don't know if $fn = $fn2 . $fn3; is what we want, or even possible.
@Sara Have I mentioned that a pipe operator and a new streams API seem like they would play nicely together :-) (Although probably only if we mixed in generators somehow.)
 
cmb
@Sara /me grabs popcorn
 
4:16 PM
Right, but what does it *mean* to concatenate a function?
$fn1 = function($x) { /* fn1 code */ return $something; }
$fn2 = function($y) { /* fn2 code */ return $somethingElse; }

$fn3 = $fn1 + $fn2;

$fn3 === ???
 
That $something is passed to $fn2 as $y.
 
@cmb I did my best to stress that I'm just a c++ nerd thinking out loud, but I fully expect a Reddit post proclaiming "STRING BUILDERS COMING TO PHP 6!"
@Crell Okay, so $fn1 + $fn2 === $fn2($fn1(...))
 
cmb
yes, that's the usual definition
 
"usual" implies others do it, do they?
((genuinely don't know, I've never seen this before but that means very little))
 
cmb
well, it's called function composition
 
4:19 PM
TIL
ION.... Noticed that we're missing manual redirects for enums, so I'll just be adding those now tyvm
https://github.com/php/web-php/commit/3e95ce285989a7a7f08b3a058ed97e958ce5fa94
Because EVERY TIME I GO LOOKING AND CAN'T FIND THE RIGHT MANUAL PAGE
 
There are languages that do composition backwards. I don't understand it and think it's wrong and horrible.
 
Wouldn't that just be the order in which callables are passed ? Or what do you mean by "backwards"
 
@Crell To answer your original question: Sure. There's not a technical reason why we couldn't do that. Just need to convince people there's a usage reason for it.
At that point, you essentially DO have pipes, just using the + (or maybe .) operator
Or hell: $foo = $bar >> baz(...) >> qux(...);
Just because I'm a chaos monkey
Right-associate that stack, at each point wrap the calls into a concat trampoline, bob's your uncle
Maybe allow consecutive concats to stack, to avoid too much recursionyness, but that's easy enough
Actual pipes would be simpler, of course, since you only evaluate the stack once, instead of potentially having to keep the composition around, but.... eh....
 
@Sara You know, I'm pretty sure that oop4 redirect is broken
 
It does seem to be.
 
4:33 PM
Yeah we removed PHP 4 and 5 docs soooo
 
There is no langauge.oop page, sooooo yeah
language.oop5 still exists tho
 
Happens when you cram in all documentation for different versions into single pages
Right side bar |

v 5
v 7
v 8
 
Yeah, Tiffany had a PR to move the docs from oop5 to oop, but it would need redirection support, and have a combined effort by translations to move the doc files, and hopefully without breaking revcheck
 
If the excuse is "duplicate docs" that's just OCD
 
@ln-s We don't have PHP 5 anymore, other than relics
 
4:35 PM
Doesn't means there aren't 5 apps out there and people needing access to said docs
 
I'm inclined to remove the oop4 redirect entirely. It's already non-resolvey, and ffs it's FOUR.
 
@ln-s There are legacy Zend docs
If you need PHP 5, you go look them there
 
Feels inconsistent
 
I do appreciate being able to be more relaxed in my OSS commits than my Corporate ones: github.com/php/web-php/commit/…
 
@Sara I went all in on pipes/composition for Advent of Code this year as a research project. My conclusion was that pipes and concat are not quite the same, and it's valuable to have both. You can absolutely user-space implement one in terms of the other, but ideally they're different syntaxes.
 
4:37 PM
@Sara would it have to be string only stream or something more generic similar to Java streams docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/util/stream/Stream.html
 
@brzuchal In principle, no. We could have much more generalized streams, but I wanted to start with a simple concept for the sake of the thread.
 
I also have found myself using even a single level pipe quite a lot, especially for array operations.
 
I'm a fan of output streams as well.
 
@Sara It'd be really nice. I ask for more generalized upfront cause wouldn't forgive myself not asking now and complaining later that I didn't mention that.
 
Honestly PHP Streams really need a massive rework
 
4:40 PM
@Girgias They need a bloody molotov cocktail
 
Yeah, but also who has the greatest knowledge about current ones ?! ;)
 
@Sara I don't care what we do to them, but I have no knowledge about streams in general, so I'm not gonna come up with an implementation
 
I bequeath the next generation streams design to.... the next generation. I'm too old to rearchitecture that shit.
 
Well maybe, we could move them into Zend, and make streams a first class engine object, but eh
 
@Girgias mumble-mumble.... ZEND_STREAM.... mumble mumble.... laughs maniacally.... theydoesntknowdoestheyprecious?
 
4:43 PM
BUT THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE THE THING USED EVERYWHERE NOT DEFINED THERE
 
Cough.... what? Yes. No. Yes, I had musings around streams being a base interface (which could live in Zend/) and leave it to main/ and ext/ to define behaviors.
@Girgias Because layers of abstractions and because PHP4's object model sucked hairy butt
 
It's your fault?
 
@Girgias What? No. That's the wrong conclusion to draw.
It's Wez's fault.
When wondering about streams, the blame ALWAYS belongs with Wez.
 
points finger =D
 
@Sara So if I follow you correctly, you are talking about an operator for objects that lets the object return a new object that includes the RHS, but retains whatever context it already had, yes?
 
4:53 PM
1/ Because it usually does.
2/ Because he's a filthy foreigner.
@Crell Yes.
 
You just proposed a monad bind operator.
I support this.
 
I indeed did.
Though again, I narrowed the scope to dealing with string streaming for simplicity
 
Sure, but that doesn't really simplify anything.
 
Just right click and git blame ... even tho at that time I don't think git was even a thing
 
replace 'git blame' with 'git shame'
 
4:56 PM
@Sara Were you involved on YII ?
 
Once you have a bind operator, what you describe is all user-space monad implementation for objects with a given method on them. And you can do something totally different for a different object. There's no value in limiting it to just strings.
 
@ln-s Nope. That's front-end stuff. shudders*
 
Wasn't that framework made by yahoo or flickr ? I can't remember
 
Oh, that's not the thing I was thinking of.
Yeah, either way, I'm not involved with Yii in any way past or present
 
gotcha
 
cmb
5:06 PM
the frontend framework is/was YUI
 
uy uy uy :P
 
Right! YUI. That checks out.
 
5:34 PM
It really pains me how many proposals right now have been rejected or are blocked in some way that would all complement each other so nicely.
 
Yeah, it's the result of no central authority. It makes large scale initiatives much harder to bring about.
 
Yep.
 
Like, if we decided to go all-in on a proper type system, we could be in a much better place that I think everyone would appreciate, but that requires long term thinking.
 
PFA, pipes, your bind-for-strings email, ADTs, pattern matching, short functions, auto-capture long lambdas... they would all fold together cleanly in all kinds of fun synergistic ways.
 
So instead we just have a deepening gulf between the stricts and the coercers.
 
5:37 PM
And we can no longer just rely on "Nikita just does whatever Nikita wants, so his plan is the plan."
 
o/~ When you are strict you are strict. From your first triple equal to your last unset cast. o/~
o/~ How do you solve a problem like coersion... o/~
o/~ Life is alright in PHP Storm. My types are all checked in PHP Storm. o/~
STOP BRAIN. STOP.
 
"Everyone writes a site in P H P. Everyone learn to write P H P."
 
How do you catch a type and pin it down? 🎵
 
@Sara What does o/~ ASCII stands for ?
Body odor ?
 
o/~ Nikita Popov, I'm askin' ya please. Would you write a patch to generic these? o/~
It's a musical note
 
5:40 PM
o/~ >|DEO|
 
Looks better in some fonts than others
 
🎵🎵🎵🎵
 
I don't have that key and can't be bothered to copy it from emojipedia
Quick poll: If I wrote some lyrics, who would bit willing to act out "PHP IDE Story"?
 
You want someone to sing it or what
 
Sing, maybe even film some attempts at the dance numbers.
 
5:43 PM
Needs to rhyme tho
 
Obvs
 
Has time to compose but not copy emoji mumble mumble
 
LOOK. DON'T YOU SASS ME
 
hahaha
 
@StatikStasis :D
 
5:43 PM
lol
🎶 <-- Another one. Placing here for ease to copy and paste. See... no sass... just helpful. =D
 
🎶 tbh I'll take the emoji rather than the smelly armpits ascii emoji (sorry sara)
 
LOLOL... that does look like that, doesn't it.
 
it does
 
🎶🎵🎼🎹🎧🎷🎺🎸🎻🎙🥁🪕
 
^Extra helpful!
 
5:46 PM
o/` Better
I could also state it's a guy trying to miyagi crane kick
 
Oooohhh conductor
 
(bool)$trueAsHell === boolval($trueAsHell);
^ This stands?
 
Nice touch
 
on windows: Windows Key + . to pull up the emoji keyboard :p
 
disgrace
 
5:47 PM
💨🙋
 
Saif on windows
 
Is that a note?
 
Someone just dutch ovened her face
so, not a note
 
Farts are musical... ish
 
Do Re Mi Fart
 
5:48 PM
@SaifEddinGmati O_o I did not know that... nice!
 
And on that bombshell, I'm off to make lunch
 
@Sara Bon apettit
 
🍗🍇
 
@StatikStasis you can start typing when you pull up that keyboard to filter, so pull it up, and type "Music" will show music related emojis
 
lol... yeah I figured that part out. Just did not know about the keyboard shortcut.
 
I remember well about that one
seems it was non-comical
 
ᴵ ˡᶦᵏᵉ ᵂᶦⁿᵈᵒʷˢ...
 
As a gaming platform? Sure
For a workstation ? Nope
 
I use Mac for music creation
 
I use windows for that, it's not that bad, plus I think I hate more apple than microsoft
 
5:55 PM
I wanted Logic Pro so I bought a Mac... but I use Ableton Live now more than anything... so did not really need to.
 
Correction: you are not using anything really :D
 
Dahm, peter coming in hard
 
Well... I do but on live sessions. I need to record. =P
 
:-)
 
I need to clone myself and take turns for working
 
 
1 hour later…
7:11 PM
function () use (& $notExists){};
Why php allow this ?
 
@Mwthreex All references are allowed when the variable doesn't exist. 3v4l.org/EiuJB
Creating a reference actually immediately initializes the variable to null.
 
> You can live anywhere outside of the US and are okay working during US business hours.
What is US business hours?
 
Depends...
1st shift 8am-5pm
2nd up to midnight or 1am
 
Oh, ok so I need to know the TZ for Boise, Idaho, United States now
 
10pm, 11pm - 7am or 8am
Pacific
...I think
 
7:17 PM
@IluTov thanks for explanation
 
Nope Mountain
@brzuchal UTC/GMT -6 hours
 
oh, ok so it's -7 for me :(
 
So you're UTC/GMT +1 hours... yeah.
 
Yeah, that's too much
 
So you would be working from 3pm - 12am most likely
Yeah...
 
7:21 PM
unless I work 2x full-time jobs
:D
joking, no it's to late to finish work, I'm too old for that
although half of the working hours is complete silence at my home :D
 
If you find work on east coast of US you could work 1pm-10pm... or find opportunity where it does not matter when you work as long as you get work completed. =)
 
yeah, but that's team leader position I've found so most of the working hours possibly spent on talks, meetings, helpdesk arrangement, talks
it'd have to be strictly task-oriented mostly
 
True. The dev team is pretty spread out though on the globe
But at least a proper overlap with US is needed
 
7:49 PM
@TimWolla Btw sorry I didn't get to the review yet but I was busy with work last weekend.
 
before I waste time writing a scraper, does anyone know if there's a way to get out all the comments on a manual page from the main.php.net UI?
ideally some kind of CSV so I could keep track of which ones I'm ready to delete as I rewrite the page
 
cmb
@IMSoP main.php.net/manage/user-notes.php?action=sect might be the next best thing available. Maybe someone can do an export of the notes to CSV, though.
 
8:04 PM
yeah, that's what I've been using so far; the page in question has 54(!) comments though, so it's quite hard to work with 10 to a page
they're also all invisible on the actual manual right now, because the page was renamed
 
8:58 PM
@DaveRandom $ping++;
 
Does anyone have experience with React?
 
@Tiffany BUT WHAT IS THE COUNT THO!
 
@SalOrozco the JS framework or the PHP thing?
I'm fluent with the former
 
@ln-s $ping = 2
 
The js framework.
What do you think of redux.
 
9:10 PM
@bwoebi github.com/php/php-src/compare/… Would this be a compromise? This would allow you to avoid "{$:$foo + 41}" when the expression starts with a $.
Honestly, I have no clue why this wasn't allowed so far, as the change is stupid easy.
 
huh; probably nobody ever thought to try
 
@IluTov Thanks for the heads up, don't worry about it - plans can change and stuff happens :-)
 
I'm 90% sure PHP's string interpolation started life as a direct copy of Perl's, so each time the grammar was rewritten, the features were just retained
 
@IMSoP Very possible. Thanks for your comments on the mailing list btw.
 
I wonder if there's any obscure edge cases where that change would change the behaviour of a non-erroring string
 
9:15 PM
I'll be on vacation myself until early April starting Wednesday, so expect some delayed responses (and no commits) during that time. If the PR is fine and no further changes are requested, feel free to merge, though.
 
I can't think of any, but it feels harder to prove than with the $: version
it looks neat, though
 
@IMSoP I don't think it can. variable essentially is a part of expr so bison would error if anything in expr was ambiguous.
 
right, yes
seems almost too easy :P
 
function foo() { return 'muahaha'; }
var_dump("{$_ ?? foo()}");
lol
(and yes that works)
 
wait, how does that parser rule work? don't both T_CURLY_OPEN and T_VARIABLE need to consume the $?
 
9:27 PM
@IMSoP T_CURLY_OPEN doesn't actually consume the $. It just asserts that it's the next symbol.
 
ah; some kind of lookahead
 
@IMSoP Yes. github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/Zend/… Basically the position is just moved back by 1.
 
cool, that makes sense
I played around with the lexer a while back, seeing how easy it would be to get column numbers into parse errors
 
3v4l.org/eRSBP#v8.1.4 As you can see, the token text is actually just the {.
 
but like most of my internals contributions, it was all a bit trial and error
the answer, btw, is that bison has a facility for doing just that, but the performance cost might not be worth it for an on-demand compiler like PHP
 
9:51 PM
@Tiffany @MarkR pong
 
@DaveRandom \o
 
what's happening?
 
Following up with you since you didn't get back to me on Sunday :)
As requested
 
ah sorry, yeh my head is still kinda up my arse
 
9:56 PM
lol
Do ramble at me at some point in time this week or something, if it'll help
 
I am just trying to right my sleep schedule at the moment
 
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