@JoeWatkins @LeviMorrison So... I still don't have a better idea of what to do now that I did 2 hours ago. Pulling the vote would look like a blatant "we pulled it because it's losing". But I don't know what other "campaigning" is possible or appropriate. And it's hovering just below passage right now.
If you were to pull it, I would certainly think it better to frame it as pushing Nikita's solution to the fore, to buy yourselves time to try and come up with a less complex solution (if such a solution is even possible)
@beberlei we got ac, but haven't been able to use it for the last week or so because decorating with windows/doors open ... this should be the last night ... itching to switch it on ...
@JoeWatkins Yeah, I don't think it can really be materially simplified. The previous semantics were kind of simpler on a technical level, but less intuitive
imo we tried both ways, there's nowhere to go from here
@LeviMorrison do you pass zend_string or zval into rust or always copy the memory before? would be interested in your approach to mingle rust into a php extension for obvoius reasons :)
If it is withdrawn, the challenge is that 80, maybe 90% of its use will have already been met by foo(...), making the value proposition significantly weaker.
The exception is if I can read it, understand it, it makes sense to me. Most things are way over my head presently, so I abstain. Joe's blog post is in the back of my head.
i hope you don't withdraw, first there is still a chance that it is passing, you have to hold out to the nay sayers, their feedback can feel like it weighs more, but doesn't have to be. second, while it takes time, v2, v3, v4 proposals of things have usually been materially better than v1 and with innovation it just sometimes needs to take its time
Thing is, there's 2 ways an RFC fails and then succeeds later. 1) It changes considerably, for the better. 2) The culture evolves and people "get it" now.
@MarkR And my usual hot take is TS is just a preprocessor with a static analyser run, nothing you couldn't do in a PHP built tool, you'd need to add support for stuff in Pre but it is doable...
I don't know what's left to do on 1. And 2... chicken and egg problem.
I mean, technically it's possible to pull out named arguments, but I don't think that's actually beneficial, or really simplifies things.
And now I'm wondering if the RFC explains the edge cases TOO well, because that gets people caught up in those rather than the common cases, which are dead simple.
glosing over edge cases could also be a factor to vote no, I am glad these are xplained so well, because i still ponder about my yes votes on JIT and fibers, which both glossed over a lot of things :)
well it would potentially be an argument for glossing over things now that i think about it ;) but not sure if thats good
And I've been out in front of the wave before. It's unpleasant.
It's also rather demoralizing that of all the stuff I've been trying to work on or collaborating on for 8.1, it looks like I'll be batting about 1 for 6. :-(
I need to reread it again, but when I read it last week the semantics seemed fine to me and I very much see use for this, but there are a couple of things I wanted to do for PHP 8.1 which I didn't have time/motivation
there's some truth to some things coming too early ... in fact, nearly everything I ever wrote came too early for php, and eventually got in somehow, sometimes using some of the code I originally wrote, sometimes not ...
but here, I don't think that's going to happen ...
@Girgias IMO, Nikita's proposal is useful, but not complete. The unary function case is the one I especially want myself. The delayed function is, honestly, icing.
I just hate the idea of having a picture of how a series of features will fit together to be more than the sum of their parts and being unable to convince people of it, in some way other than giving them a few versions with just one of them and seeing the pain of the missing features.
@Girgias did you look at code yet ? it seems easy on the surface, but the hoops you have to jump through to make it work are ... on fire, and trying to kill you ...
Maybe make contributing to docs easier? Though the cost for general audience is annoying, even though it's unclear what the cost will be, and hopefully can't be abused any worse than GitHub actions are by cryptobros
@JoeWatkins I started looking at it, but I meant on a conceptual level not implementation wise, my issue is that the VM I'm starting to grok it a bit, but how functions and objects work still confuses me as I haven't worked with them in an extension really, and partials is the intersection of all of these things
Especially the whole trampoline thing
Like function initialization cleanup is where I got stuck with è@<SpecificException>expr` sooo
@GabrielCaruso My keys are on GitHub. I accidentally committed with the wrong email address but signed with the correct key because GitHub Desktop (which I installed the previous day) screwed up my global ~/.gitconfig file.
I see... IMHO I still think we're better putting together a community discord to direct people to for help. Put people together and hope that most the problems solve themsleves by people being nice which, i hear, occasionally happens
(Assuming PHP moves to(wards) GitHub Issues) Could GitHub Discussions be used to try to try to help filter help requests away from Issues? I suspect it may become a complete mess of completely random, often framework specific queries, but at least it wouldn't be in Issues.
Another alternative that might help: externals.io but for the users mailing list, with the ability to post. (I'm kind of working on the theory that at least some people submitting these issues don't know where else they could easily ask about behavior / ask for help before submitting a bug)