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12:00 AM
@CraigFrancis But I use this function in js what you gave me and it seems to me it is the closest to the ping value so I left it
 
@PeeHaa I bet you use excel for shit.
 
Dude. I am the proud owner of a ECDL. The fuck is wrong with you!?
 
@DEVDJ as long as your application doesn't rely upon that value in any capacity
 
@PeeHaa looool I really hope you actually did that
 
if it's intended as a visual indicator to a user, sure, use it... but don't write anything that is intended to be securely based upon it
 
12:02 AM
@DEVDJ email? craig at craigfrancis dot co dot uk? But the JS thing, it gives you a number, hopefully it’s close enough (with all the usual caveats).
 
I did!
It was mandatory even
 
what for??
 
@PeeHaa wat
 
My super useful education as system/network administrator
 
@Tiffany +1, there is no security value with it (don’t you just love JS)
 
12:04 AM
have you got an ECDL?
no but I can hack into the server and give myself one
2
 
🤣
 
I have all kinds of stupid certificates from that time
ECDL, CCNA, MDMA
 
@PeeHaa I got myself a Cisco cert, that was helpful in adding a bit of insulation to my room :-)
 
lol
@CraigFrancis Wallpaper from a time ios was actual ios
:D
 
Wonder what the R-value is for a framed piece of paper… probably not great :P
 
12:07 AM
I had to configure the routers before I could start the second semester :-)
 
I don't think I ever went quite that pointless with qualifications, I have a couple of pieces of paper that say I know how phones work (something so simple I could build one out of shit I could retrieve from the bin) and a bobcat driving license (I know what two levers do)
 
@Trowski oh, I got all the info printed, I think it’s still upstairs somewhere, great for, erm, something about subnet mask calculations :-P
 
@CraigFrancis OK cool so you know how cisco kit works, do you know about networking tho? :-P
tbf I have considered doing ccna a couple of times, I really would like to know how cisco kit works :-P
 
@DaveRandom oh, I had to completely forgot all about that before I could do real networking stuff :-)
 
@DaveRandom I see your 2 lever bobcat and raise you a 3 lever forklift :P
 
12:09 AM
@CraigFrancis it's actually getting saner at the real-world end of the market, the high-end catalyst stuff is still all ssh and inpenetrable text config files but most stuff has web UIs these days, even the enterprise stuff
 
@DaveRandom I hope it’s getting better, last time I checked they were still hard coding passwords.
 
@DaveRandom I once was quite good at driving one of these: John Deere Skidder
 
...at the same time I set up a switch stack the other day that took me 4hrs to configure 3 bloody switches in a really stupid-simple layout so... might still have value :-P
 
@Trowski nice!
 
@Trowski oooooh that looks fun, 4 wheel steer?
 
12:12 AM
@Trowski Damn. Waaaant
 
@DaveRandom Articulated, so the wheels don't turn, the machine bends in the middle.
 
@DaveRandom burn it all down, who needs switches when you can have a nice open wifi repeater :-P
 
have fun with running 68 RDS hosts on that :-P
I kinda wanna see what unifi can cope with in an env like that but I don't have the balls, and I suspect the answer is "not all that much"
not without impractical cooling anyway
 
My dad worked in the lumber industry and I drove one of those to help him in my teens and early twenties.
 
@DaveRandom yeah, still a long way off.
 
12:15 AM
@Trowski s/to help/under the pretence of helping/
 
It was quite awesome. Though like so many things the novelty wears off and it eventually becomes work.
 
@Trowski true, but still good memories, and you can make us all jealous.
 
@CraigFrancis can you elaborate on this btw? not sure what you mean but prob just something I have never touched, I avoid cisco in general due to lack of experience, vicious circle
 
@DaveRandom oh, the Cisco stuff has had a few, erm… 2 sec
 
Yeah, my mom has pictures, I should get around to scanning those negatives.
 
12:19 AM
And I’m sure there’s more (just doing a quick search)
Anyway, best try getting some sleep, thanks for tonight, was good :-)
 
ffs that's ridiculous
struggling to work out what either of those affected product suites are so I don't think anything I am responsible for will be affected but will check again when sober
 
Reasons why I sold my Cisco stock some time ago.
 
@CraigFrancis my e-mail is: contact [@] devdj . pl
 
recemmend editing that out ^
edit history can be viewed by humans easily, bots less so
 
@Trowski looks like something I would see driving down the highway, with a huge amount of cars behind it
so many farm vehicles around here XD and they have to use public roads to get to farms
 
12:31 AM
@Tiffany Yea, I have routinely been one of the cars caught behind one of those things.
It doesn't matter in what direction I go when I leave the house I drive past a lot of farm land.
 
me too...
 
@Tiffany The tires are 5 ft. tall. If I ran over your car the main indication would be the crunching metal noise (and probably screaming).
 
@Trowski yup... have definitely driven past one :P
 
Well, that particular machine would never travel on a paved road.
 
though, I'm one of the people that pass, use my turn signal, give the person a wide berth, then quickly try to pass them
 
12:32 AM
Though of course it's common to see farm equipment on the roads, yes.
 
@CharlesSprayberry I drive about five minutes out of town... farms or forests, far as the eye can see
 
@Tiffany Yea, I love it. I'm currently living with some family members... my mom had passed away then my FIL got real sick and couldn't work all in the middle of the pandemic so we've been helping him out.
He lives on like 40 acres of forest though so I walk out the back door and it's like 15ft to the tree line
My dog gets to chase a lot of deer and rabbit and squirrel and chipmunk and <insert wildlife>
 
@Tiffany Here's a video for a better idea of what that machine does: youtube.com/watch?v=w9vxeJ3DKEI
 
12:54 AM
@Dharman Ah, if there is an in-progress patch please link it from the RFC.
I hate it when Amazon has exactly what I'm looking for, but it's out of stock. :-/ Doubly so when it was in stock 2 days ago.
 
@Trowski ahhh, I have definitely seen those on the roads, but much less frequently than other farm vehicles
maybe twice?
 
@Tiffany Huh, wow, driving on paved roads destroys the tires quickly, so I'm surprised.
 
maybe a kid who doesn't know better?
 
Not that I'm doubting you, they maybe would do it for very short trips.
Very slowly too.
 
Someone would like to evaluate and express an opinion, what to add and what to change in my WAF which I am currently writing?
 
1:07 AM
@Trowski never thought I'd be googling farm vehicles. My grandma's place is connected via a state highway, I have to drive through three small towns to reach it. The "largest" town has a population of ~500, the smallest... about 50, with acres and acres of farm land in between, so it's not uncommon to drive them in between. Wracking my brain to remember the last time I saw the largest vehicle, but it would've been years ago
one of my aunts lives in the middle of nowhere... I have to drive off two gravel roads to reach it
Another aunt lives on a farm, also in the middle of nowhere, but at least the road is paved
 
"If directions to your house include 'Turn off the paved road'… you… might be a redneck."
This girl (I'm assuming) was sitting in my driveway this weekend: i.imgur.com/alZnTTC.jpg
I live about 5 miles north of town on a river. Common to see turtles at this time of year looking for a place to lay eggs. Usually they stay closer to the river. She was about 500 ft inland.
 
1:27 AM
It's hard to see the size without a banana, but that looks like a proper turtle
 
The shell was about 50 cm in diameter.
Don't want to get too close to the business end, that's a snapping turtle. They can remove fingers and toes.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:07 AM
Which PHP version made it so all Traversables are either Iterator or IteratorAggregate? Not seeing it in release notes.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:10 AM
\o
 
\o
 
6:28 AM
@Trowski ping
 
 
1 hour later…
7:50 AM
@NikiC Do you see it's possible to fix it so that it works with readonly properties?
 
8:15 AM
ping @RemiCollet
 
@LeviMorrison PHP 8
 
Is there any plans to implement a ":" operator for PHP 8.x? python can do
>>> [1,2,3,4,5][1:4]
[2, 3, 4]
It would be cool if we could do the same thing with ":" in PHP to extract slices
 
@JoeWatkins yes ?
 
8:30 AM
memcached extension is pretty far behind on releases, I'm happy to do the odd bug fix and merge the odd pr, to keep releases moving, if you're happy to take on the pecl bit ?
I don't know a whole bunch about memcached, so can't actually maintain the thing properly, but maybe we can just keep it moving a little ?
 
@JoeWatkins perhaps Michael Wallner a better candidate than me
there still a huge PR from him to fix the MemcachedServer, but it rely on libmemcached 1.1.0 (fork not yet released.... waiting for more info)
 
aren't you packaging for fedora anyway ?
 
yes
The Fedora build already includes tons of patches ;)
btw, I'm fine in runnig some more test ° the release process of a 8.x compatible version
probably the building the changelog will be a challenge ;)
@JoeWatkins I also start my usual TODO for 8.1 and extension, github.com/remicollet/remirepo/issues/177
(waiting for alpha1 official announcement to make more noise about 8.1 already available in my repo)
 
I'll shoot off a couple of emails and see if we can just move forward, I'm not looking at merging major features or doing anything new, just keep releases moving forward ...
 
Hrm, I made the mistake of looking at the intl collator implementation :(
 
8:38 AM
@RemiCollet yeah that'll be today, but likely evening time, I'm meeting with ben/patrick to walk through with them
 
@JoeWatkins btw libmemcached being dead is a major issue for this extension, so I have huge expectation on m6w6 fork
perhaps I will also have to raise again the "imap" issue for 8.1 (looks like it is now unable to handle connection with some serveur using TLS1.3, and SNI, IIRC gmail...)
 
@RemiCollet nice
 
8:59 AM
@JoeWatkins I can be reached here all day
 
@JoeWatkins I think it make sense to merge #474 which fix deprecated call (inet_ntoa), missing header and ipv6 support
(btw memcached protocol is a bit broken in libmemcached 1.0.18, so really work as expected in libmemcached 1.1.0....)
@PatrickAllaert Hi !
 
@RemiCollet Hi @RemiCollet
 
9:15 AM
@RemiCollet I skimmed it, I'll have a proper read later on today before I send any emails ...
 
9:27 AM
@JoeWatkins I have submit a minor change to Michael for his PR
damned CLA requiring a Google accont...
 
10:01 AM
Anyone know anything about mysql's full group by/functional dependence detection, when combined with parameterised queries?
 
10:22 AM
The best (and only realistic) way to access http request headers from an extension is accessing TRACK_AVRS_SERVER?
 
10:41 AM
regards memcache, is there really a need for a new libmemcached when the competing extension (the one without a d) is apparently more maintained? see here: externals.io/message/102375#107928
having two extensions has always been a) confusing for users, and b) a dilution of effort
 
cmb
Can memcached be replaced with memcache in a backward compatible way? According to the docs (php.net/memcache vs. php.net/memcached) that doesn't seem so (but the docs may be seriously out-dated).
 
I admit to not knowing that; it just bugs me that we have two such similar extensions, with no clear explanation of which one anybody should use
 
their apis are different
 
different in a fundamental way, or just a "things aren't named the same" way?
if both are going to be maintained, it would be good if someone could at least add a note to the manual acknowledging that both exist
especially if there's some actual reason to choose one or the other, beyond flipping a coin
I'd add one myself, but it would have to say "Note: This is one of two extensions for interfacing to memcache. They're maybe a bit different, and occasionally one of them goes a while without releases. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
 
11:10 AM
morns
 
cmb
@IMSoP guess nobody has a reliable crystal ball to look into the future :)
for some time it looked like memcache has no future, but that changed
then I thought memcached would have no future, but aparently it has
 
11:27 AM
is there a way to enable debugging on phpspreadsheet?
 
11:52 AM
maybe someone should make a new extension called "memcachedd" ;)
 
well, one wraps a library, the other doesn't isn't it?
 
IMHO having a lib implementing protocol detail, shared by various languages is better.... if the lib is maintained
 
are any other languages sharing it, though?
given how long it's been unmaintained, it's clearly not got a huge userbase
 
12:27 PM
this may be a micro-optimization, I'm not sure. I'm working with some already-written code, and it had an array_merge inside a loop. EA inspections said it's a "resources greedy" function in this context, and an article I found yesterday further emphasizes it. I'm thinking of trying to rewrite the bit of code that uses array_merge inside the loop into something maybe more efficient, but not sure if it's worth the effort
like maybe combining all of the arrays into one array using +=, then doing array merge outside of the loop
 
I usually ignore it unless it's becoming a problem
 
@Tiffany is your array potentially really big and the loop a hot path? if no, then it doens't matter
 
judging by the variable names (but not having read through the code line by line), it's pulling children media from a Wordpress site, though I don't know if it's just post-by-post, or if it's doing it from as many posts at once as possible
(code does use the per_page limiter from Wordpress API)
 
@Tiffany is your array used as a map, a set, a list, ... ?
 
map
 
12:40 PM
ouch... so array_merge() is definitely not a good operation
 
@Tiffany Unless the array is huge, anything that follows it up with IO is going to immediately drown out any performance benefits that would be gained by micro optimizing it
 
$map += $otherMap;
the + operator works efficiently at combining PHP "maps" (using arrays)
just note that the order is reversed
array_merge($a, $b) ==> $b + $a;
 
I'm going by the assumption that a map cannot have duplicate keys, but a set can. (I wasn't sure what the difference between the two were, so did a quick google before answering)
 
no, both can't have duplicates
a set permits just knowing if something is part of it or not, but there is no associated value
so basically, a set of strings can, in PHP, be stored in the key part of an array
$set["element1"] = true;
 
I see
 
12:44 PM
removing: unset($["element1"])
 
it is still a map in this case because it's a key-value store
 
that's because array cannot not have a value
so a set in that case is a map where the value is meaningless
I usually store null, or true
is something part of the set? => isset($set["element1"])
all those operations are almost all complexity of O(1) and never requires use of array_map(), array_unique(), array_merge()
 
I have used sets before, I think I've used like array_fill_keys to give them dummy data so that I can utilize the keys
 
avoiding using those functions on map can be seen as "premature optimisations", but I tend to disagree with that as this is for me not following best practices
 
thanks for explaining :D
 
Best practices don't exist in isolation though, and following one of them rigidly can cause problems elsewhere, be it through unnecessary complexity or other factors
 
that is a very old presentation I made on the subject of data structures and PHP, but it's almost 10 years old
 
@cmb do you plan to realse dbase 7.1.0 ? (FYI test suite passes with 8.1.0lapha1)
 
@MarkR True, but I've seen much more cases of defects and performance bottlenecks caused by not following data structures best practices rather than seeing problems because of applying them in a rigid way.
 
@Tiffany @PatrickAllaert i blogged about that recently too just with array_unique, but the one concrete example also combined thst with array merge, still slow in a loop but array_unique is even slower: tideways.com/profiler/blog/…
 
12:57 PM
Most performance issues in PHP I have seen that were not I/O were mostly because of incorrect use of data structures. Or about not picking the right strategy for the problem.
 
cmb
@RemiCollet oops, that's overdue; will try on weekend
 
@beberlei This is, Benjamin, the story of my life... Keeping repeating what about to do or not do with PHP's array ;-)
@beberlei I could have stopped reading after seeing array_unique(array_merge(...
PHP's array is simple to use, one structure for any use. However, it's hard to have something that is the most efficient in all cases. Usually, it's more efficient to have one dedicated structure for a dedicated problem. But that complexifies a language much more.
Thanks we have @NikiC that revamped it in PHP 7.
I wonder if there is a similar structure combining the use of array, set, map, list, queue, heap,... in another tool/language that is as efficient as what we have in PHP now.
 
Setting a variable in a class to NULL does nothing ・ Unknown/Other Function ・ #81123
 
1:12 PM
grumble grumble
everything I've tried to complete today has added another two things to my todo list, and I've been trying to get an hours sleep for the last 12 hours (since the middle of the night), and now there's less than an hour until the next thing I have to do ...
 
1:54 PM
/me slips @JoeWatkins some melatonin in a hot toddy.
 
All issues have been resolved!
 
Y'all prepare your eye bleach and please let me know if code regularly looks like this in the wild or if this is an exceptionally egregious example?
Im thinking its gonna be the worst anyone has ever seen
Posting here as all other rooms are dead
and posting here for yall to get a kick out of
I dont need any help
 
@PatrickAllaert TBF, I don't know how and with which syntax we could introduce sets, Python uses {} and even that doesn't work if you want to specify an empty set because it thinks it's a dictionary
 
@Girgias if we hadn't got used to short array syntax, you wouldn't need to ask that: array(1,2,3) and set(1, 2, 3) would work just fine
 
Its so F'd up that the green box below the heading (which isnt a H1) isnt even a div
 
2:05 PM
That's true lol
 
Its a mash of elements
How does code get this bad?
 
Didn't list(1, 2, 3) used to actually create a list? (Like back in PHP 3/4)
 
Oh I know... Templates
 
I've rewritten the preview on 3v4l.org - it should now be easier to test stuff in a single version. Let me know if you find any bugs
 
<3
 
2:12 PM
@Sjon I just saw this
Function [ &lt;internal:standard&gt; partial function sprintf ] {

  - Parameters [4] {
    Parameter #0 [ &lt;required&gt; string $format ]
    Parameter #1 [ &lt;required&gt; mixed $values ]
    Parameter #2 [ &lt;required&gt; mixed $values ]
    Parameter #3 [ &lt;optional&gt; mixed ...$values ]
  }
  - Return [ string ]
}
also, I'm missing a way to link to that result, when you eval for one branch, is that a thing ?
 
@JoeWatkins that's exactly what should have been fixed :D
 
cool :D
 
No wonder it just changed on me while using it...
Having branches at the top of the preview list is nice. When I used one, though, the page that loaded had no code box in it. I had to go back to using the branches tab.
Speaking of, @JoeWatkins, I just tested and nullsafe doesn't work correctly. If the object is defined, it works. If it's not, it fails with a null error.
 
@Crell did the #focus remain in the URL correctly when you were forwarded to the result?
 
Hm, now it works when I try it a second time: 3v4l.org/eQsec/rfc#focus=rfc.partials
 
2:16 PM
I went to /new
 
(Link for both of you.)
 
that behaviour is what I expect
 
Seems like undesireable behavior.
 
@JoeWatkins /new should only be used when you do not select a single version - the single versions should be processed through xhr
 
@Sjon btw, I'm pretty sure you can remove enumerations, but add pipes.
 
2:19 PM
@Crell it might be browser cache, I flushed cloudflare to be sure
@Crell yeah you're probably right
 
$d = $g?->bar(?);
that behaves properly, there's a null safe operator and it behaves as expected, on the next statement, there is no null safe operator, and you are expecting the behaviour of ?->__invoke, I think ...
(there's no reason to expect that, no null safe operator)
 
It may be expected from an engine POV, but fro a user POV, "Why am I getting a var-not-defined error with a nullsafe, isn't a nullsafe supposed to prevent exactly that?"
 
but there is no null safe operator
 
There... is? It was added in 8.0. You can blame Ilija.
 
no no, I mean on the line you expect to exhibit null safe behaviour
 
2:22 PM
?
Am I making some obvious and stupid typo, or are we talking about different things?
(Or both, which is also possible.)
 
exactly the same ^^
 
Oh, fascinating. nullsafe doesn't treat undefined as null.
3v4l.org/4XeB3/rfc#focus=rfc.partials - That's more like what I'd expect to happen.
I'm good with that behavior.
 
if you want null safe behaviour, you have to use the operator ... imo, it behaves correctly, and just as normal code does ...
 
@Sjon It just happened again. It seems to be like a first-load issue. If the first time I submit something after loading the page in a new tab I use a specific branch, I end up on /new with just the output, no code box. If I submit normally first, then do that, it seems to work.
 
@Crell yup, confirmed. I'm gonna fix that
that's a nasty bug, you end up on a complete borked page as well
 
2:33 PM
/me calls the Swedish Chef.
 
@Crell 3v4l.org/qlsci/rfc#focus=rfc.partials maybe explains better than just words ?
 
@JoeWatkins I already replied on the list with links to the earlier samples, so we're good for now. :-)
 
okay good
 
Determination of asm goto capability should be made by phpize configure script ・ *Compile Issues ・ #81124
 
@Crell fixed now (in js, might need a good reload). When submitting from the main-page there was some logic that still relied on the preview form
 
2:46 PM
$_SERVER['REQUEST_URI'] ・ Documentation problem ・ #81125
 
3:07 PM
o/
 
o/
 
3:57 PM
o/
 
o/
 
@Crell I was talking with @bwoebi about the pipe operator and he made the point that the order of evaluation is weird. For example:
 
some_call($baz) |> foo($obj->method(), ?)
It is odd that some_call($baz) will actually happen after looking up foo and calling $obj->method(), because it's just an AST rewrite that becomes:
foo($obj->method(), ?)(some_call($baz))
So I'm thinking that it probably shouldn't be AST only. We should probably compile the opcodes differently so it's like this:
$__tmp__ = some_call($baz);
foo($obj->method(), ?)($__tmp__)
 
Hrm. If the operations are all pure functions, it doesn't matter. And if they're not, nothing is predictable anyway and your code is already wrong. :-)
 
4:00 PM
(but of course, not introducing a new variable in the AST and that's a compiler tmp)
 
I am not conceptually opposed t a new opcode, other than it being beyond my skillset right now without a lot of hand holding. (And that describing it as a pure AST rewrite makes it trivial to explain.)
 
@Crell are you saying that the order of evaluation for foo($obj->method(), some_call($baz)) is technically undefined, except for the call to foo happening last?
 
@IMSoP I think he is, but I would counter that |> should be a sequence point ^_^
 
yeah, I agree that it feels surprising
 
@IMSoP No, the order of evaluation is definitively known. I'm saying that if the functions involved are all pure functions then there's a bunch of different orders that would end in the same result. So an unexpected eval order is not the same as an incorrect eval order.
Viz, whether some_call() is evaluated first or foo() is partially applied first, the end result is the same.
Making it a dedicated opcode instead would change the order from the current AST transform, but that would have no impact on the final result. (And might have benefits for xdebug? I don't know. @Derick?)
 
4:07 PM
@Crell sorry, that just strikes me as word play; if there's a well-defined order of side-effects, it's reasonable to expect the pipe operator to follow it
 
I'm not saying it should have a new opcode; just that we should compile it so that the lhs evaluates first, then the rhs.
 
@LeviMorrison I am willing to give that a try if you can talk me through it.
<-- still a newbie at php-src.
 
It probably should have a new AST representation, though, so that it gets passed to the compiler without loss of information.
Err, that's not quite right. I mean that when the compiler walks the AST that it sees it in time to do something.
foo($obj->method(), ?)(some_call($baz))
^ At that point, the partial of foo would have already be compiled, and you can't easily compile the some_call($baz) to a tmp before the partial of foo.
 
huh?
OK, updated version is what the VM would see right now, yes.
 
But if the compiler sees some_call($baz) |> foo($obj->method(), ?), then it can choose to compile them in-order.
 
4:12 PM
Essentially you're saying instead of desugaring to that, it should desugar to

$t = some_call($baz);
$t = foo($obj->method(), $t);
 
Right, just no variables at the PHP level; just TMP vars for the compiler.
But, you also technically did an optimization as well ^_^
 
I did?
Would that also make it more xdebug-friendly?
 
@LeviMorrison should be foo($obj->method(), ?)($t);
 
$t = some_call($baz);
$t = foo($obj->method(), ?)($t);
 
Ah, yes.
 
4:13 PM
^ This is the direct translation.
 
(The eval order is not super important to me. But being xdebug-friendly is important.)
Well, as I said, if you can handhold me through it I'm game to try.
 
I'll have to schedule it. Do you program on the weekends?
 
Less so now that TYPO3 doesn't mind if I work on 8.1 on company time, since we'll be using it for v12. :-) I can try to schedule time for it but the gf gets jealous.
 
@LeviMorrison I find this hack -> program substitution very funny for some reason :-D
 
(Part of why I'm so eager about getting stuff into 8.1; that's what I'll be using for the next 2 years, probably.)
 
4:15 PM
@bwoebi :)
 
cmb
@LeviMorrison ah, a well known term in the PHP community; at least for those reading the manual ("PHP does not (in the general case) specify in which order an expression is evaluated …") ;)
the special cases are ignored (except for arg eval order)
 
(I'm also open to pairing with anyone else on it, if y'all have time during work hours or shortly after.)
@Derick Are you going to send out a prep-sheet for Monday's partials interview?
 
5:09 PM
i hate this so much 3v4l.org/00Xqq
 
@SaifEddinGmati Check locale on startup, hard exit if it's not C
This is the only good solution to locale problems
 
and what if some lib decides to change locale at* runtime for the lolz :p
 
a new string manipulation API 🥺🥺🥺
 
Why can't I see the voting box on wiki.php.net/rfc/auto-capture-closure?
php-rfc-watch.beberlei.de shows that it's in voting
 
5:21 PM
actually, I may as well ask here - Is there a simple way to detect if the locale uses anything other than "." as a decimal separator? This is an ongoing issue with Imagick
@Dharman are you trying to imply that a computer program might have a bug?
 
As usual, the question is which one
 
One is a document that is edited by hand. One is a program that scrapes changes from that doc.
The details of what it does needed filling out.
 
@Danack don't think so, hack is re-designing the string API, currently it's HH\Lib\Str*(), but since hack has purity, string functions should be pure, but currently they access global state, for this, the solution is to add a new $locale argument that defaults to 'C' and can allow stuff like 'en_us.UTF-8'
 
Ahh, thanks
I want that one to pass, since it's actually useful as opposed to Short functions
 
which is way more predictable without the need for two separate APIs ( substr vs mb_substr )
 
5:27 PM
@SaifEddinGmati Hmm. An interesting choice. Any idea why they aren't just telling people to use something like NumberFormatter to avoid that insanity?
 
because NumberFormatter is also marked with <<__PhpStdlib>> attribute and probably needs a new API to replace it.
( basically no function that came from PHP is staying, everything is being reworked )
 
btw, I have actually seen a library change the locale in the middle of generating an SVG.....so half the numbers were formatted with '.' and half with ',' as the decimal separator....
@SaifEddinGmati okay, but still, why are they choosing to use locale at all, rather than not making that mistake again?
 
@Dharman We pulled the vote for @NunoMaduro to revisit some details. I don't know what his status is on that.
 
He appears to be near a swimming pool.....which sounds great tbh.
 
I mean, not a bad status to have...
 
5:33 PM
for a language that has HH\Lib\OS\execve() and soon HH\Lib\OS\ioctl(), that's not the weirdest part, but it is more mis-use resistance, as the locale you pass will only be used there, and if you don't pass a locale next time, it falls back to 'C', not the environment locale like PHP.
also, another cool thing is that standard library is written in Hack, rather than C++/Rust, which makes it easier for people like me to contribute, according to Facebook, there's no performance difference, and sometimes Hack code is faster than C++ when inlined.
 
DGF
Hey. Can anyone help me with this small noobish doubt? In laravel (and I guess in any other framework): imagine I have a controller that does something based on a bunch of querys/results. Should I place all the logic in the controller or should I place it in other places?
 
Logic goes in your model, not in your controller
 
@DGF Generally speaking, your controller should be minimal glue to convert request stuff into actual API commands, and then send off a response. Real business logic belongs elsewhere.
(That's true regardless of which framework you're using.)
 
DGF
@Dharman @Crell I was doing that, placing it in the Model and the Controller only "controlling". Was not sure if I was doing it right. Thanks :P
 
5:49 PM
@JoeWatkins pong
 
5:59 PM
@Crell Xdebug wants EXT_STMT in between each call, the whole |> syntax makes single stepping awkward, just as it do for chained fluent method calls.
 
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