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07:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

7:21 AM
\o
 
@JoeWatkins I'm confused by your merge in github.com/php/php-src/commit/…
It doesn't match the PR and looks wrong
 
is HAVE_GETIFADDRS not defined for the stub ?
 
You #define HAVE_GETIFADDRS in net.c, but that has no impact on stubs
@JoeWatkins It's generally available, but not if you define it in some unrelated .c file
 
what's the correct way to do it ?
 
@JoeWatkins Add the defined(PASE) to the stubs or move the HAVE_GETIFADDRS define higher up into ... somewhere
 
7:28 AM
php_network.h ?
 
Basically needs to be included in basic_functions.c as that's where the stubs are included
 
I just added the define to stubs ... sorry about that, it was genuinely just occurring to me that the define might not be available to stubs
 
7:50 AM
omg this is so painful, it's taking a full minute to switch between conversation and change tabs on pr
 
8:25 AM
hmm... why ZVAL_NEW_ARR has been removed... there is no way to create an array using a specific dtor (ZVAL_NEW_ARR + zend_hash_init)... using array_init means zend_hash_init will be called twice
 
cmb
Is Dmitry's No on deprecation of autovivification on false concerning?
 
8:54 AM
morns
 
@RemiCollet it's unused in php-src, and we thought it was misleading
ZVAL_ARR(&zv, ecalloc(1, sizeof(HashTable)));
zend_hash_init(...);
my internet is back, yay
 
9:13 AM
@cmb Don't think so, otherwise he'd given more detail I think
 
cmb
or maybe he thinks that he'd talk to a wall anyway
@Dharman, wiki.php.net/rfc/mysqli_default_errmode is implemented, but RFC still says accepted; the Implemention section needs to be updated as well. :)
 
 
1 hour later…
10:45 AM
Hi guys
 
11:20 AM
@ln-s Hey ln -s / Freddy
 
Hi Craig what's up
 
@ln-s Usual, avoiding work, u?
 
lol
Kind of the same
I'm in weekend mode already
 
I've been like that since, erm, March?
 
lol :D
 
11:24 AM
This is probably my bad memory, but were you having difficulty at home a while back?
 
also trying to design a strategy to convince the CEO that our current code needs a modern approach, it's so legacy it hurts
 
@ln-s Do what I do, just start changing things, it's not like they know what's happening.
 
Bit more complex than that the guy actually codes a bit
 
ohh, the "codes a bit" can be an issue.
 
yeah
 
11:30 AM
(don't get me wrong, I want more people to code, but there is a type of person who seems to think they know more than they actually do).
 
Yeah that's the case
he becomes his own obstacle
 
And you hit the same problem I do... trying to convince people about an idea... I try to keep it short and to facts/points (but that often causes defensiveness), and doesen't address the emotional side (which I'm guilty of as well).
 
I need help with a verb, "When an item made of raw/natural material needs to undergo a process of time submerged/filled with a substance in a given period of time for it to be ... (adjective here)"
 
if it's food, I'd say marinaded
 
Not food
 
11:37 AM
infused?
 
hmmm no
we have a word but the equivalent in english is not really what it is
we say "curar" as in to heal
 
what's the material?
 
It's a mate cup made of squash
accent on the A on mAte
 
ohh, is this is the tea thing, where the cups and pots need to be used every day?
 
Here I'm not using it I am "curandolo" lol
I smeared the inside with butter and I added used yerba mate into it, I have to leave it like that for two days
This process is known as ...
in English please ? lol
There HAS to be a word in english
 
11:44 AM
You probably shouldn't be asking someone who is dyslexic :-P ... but infused, cured... 2 min
 
Damn you say cured ?
 
erm, maybe not in this case
not sure, I'm trying to get my brain to think of different words that might be related
 
preserve (meat, fish, tobacco, or an animal skin) by salting, drying, or smoking.
cured ^
 
yep... which is why I think it's close-ish, but probably not right
the idea being that it's being left to process
 
undergo hardening by a chemical process.
"the mastic takes days to cure"
That's it!
Right ?
```
How to cure a mate gourd?
Mate gourd curation steps:
1- Introduce moist yerba inside the gourd (cover the mate completely). ...
2- Introduce warm water or mate temperature water (158 to 176 ° F). ...
3- Let it sit for 24 hours.
4- Remove the yerba with a spoon.
5- Scrape the skin to remove the membranes of the gourd.
```
yeah it's cure ...
 
11:48 AM
I think so... but you are talking to the idiot that barely got a passing grade in English, the only language I speak (yep, I am actually embarrassed about that).
anyway, good luck... I've gtg, back in an hour (ish).
 
Good luck o/ thanks for the word
 
12:02 PM
@cmb Thanks. I just changed it. Hope it's ok now
 
cmb
ta
 
12:18 PM
@cmb When the idea being discussed changes multiple times...and Tyson says "the implementation is not obvious"....that does not fill me with overwhelming confidence that the idea and implications are fully thought through.
 
@Danack That was regarding null, which I have added to RFC based on the comments, but then removed before voting. The original RFC was to deprecate on false only
And I agree, deprecating on null would be a nightmare
 
@DaveRandom They made a video: youtube.com/watch?v=U6n2NcJ7rLc
 
@Dharman It still seems that getting most of the implementation in place for something like to have edge-cases would be good.
 
cmb
12:35 PM
I agree. If Dmitry foresees implementation difficulties, there indeed might be tricky edge-cases. Thanks for asking on the ML, @Dharman!
 
Step 1) draw a black square.
Step 2) draw a white line diagonally across that square.
Step 3) Rotate the image 3 degrees.
Step 4) Wonder how tf the line gets two steps in it.
 
@Crell woops, we forgot to test examples before re-posting ... could you do that please while updating the rfc, I've fixed the typo/mistake in code already but don't have time to write tests today, will come back to it tonight, or over the weekend some time ... they were minor mistakes in code, no reason to panic ...
 
@Danack Don't rotate the image, what happens then
 
cmb
1:06 PM
@Danack FWIW, GD has different issues (missing pixels near right bottom corner). image manipulation is hard ;)
 
1:22 PM
Step 5) Go back and use $imagick->setImageVirtualPixelMethod(Imagick::VIRTUALPIXELMETHOD_BLACK); to stop it from warping the edges....
 
1:39 PM
@cmb that moire pattern certainly gives the image a nice 'textural warmth' to it.
 
@JoeWatkins What gives with example 14? Is that one of the bugs you fixed?
@Sjon More 3v4l feedback: With a long code block, the toggles in the bottom left of the screen hover over the last few lines of the output. That's... eew. Can those just get pinned to the bottom of the screen, or tucked away somewhere, anything but a hover-over?
Also, I don't know what's up with the Optimizations example. That seems odd.
 
cmb
1:59 PM
@Danack github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/ext/gd/libgd/… might not have been the best idea
 
@Crell that's fixed
14?
if you mean 16, that was also bug
(fixed)
 
Ugh, yeah, 16.
OK, I fixed the other typos, which were mostly leftovers from the 50 previous drafts. :-)
 
:-)
 
@cmb I ported nearly everything to use EXTENSIONS (github.com/php/php-src/pull/7141 still missing). So I think now windows could be adjusted to not load any exts by default
 
cmb
@NikiC yeah, I've seen that. Thanks! There are issues with LDAP and likely some other exts (timeouts ...); I commented on the PR just yet. Will look into it over the WE.
 
I noticed in the appveyor logs that there are some exts with slow skipif, e.g. snmp and ldap. Do you think it would make sense to simply rm the php_snmp.dll and php_ldap.dll files if we don't want to actually test them?
 
cmb
oh, that would be a simple solution as well
but testing would be better
these exts are not tested by MSFT, btw
Maybe @DaveRandom has some tipps how to set up an LDAP env for the tests suite on AppVeyor?
 
2:40 PM
Yeah, that would be better. But at least these are tested on linux
 
you're making me feel lazy with all this activity ...
 
/me cracks the whip.
 
zend_partial *partial->argc which type is that ?
 
Morngins all o/
 
Hi Peter o/
 
2:50 PM
Happy Friday \o/
 
3:04 PM
In zend_fetch_dimension_address when the container is a reference, I think I need to add a deprecation notice too, but I have no idea how to write a test case for it. There's also no error for the other scalar types here
 
@PeeHaa \o/
 
3:21 PM
@JoeWatkins You haven't been lazy as far as I can tell, Joe. Don't worry about it :)
 
3:36 PM
Good afternoon everyone. Does anyone suggest an alternative to MAMP Pro, which is possible to create virtual hosts?
 
@Derick Seems xdebug breaks if PHP is compiled with ASan because the size of zend_fiber_stack changes. Probably means I should move that to be the last member of zend_fiber_context, yes?
 
zend_partial *partial->argc which type is that ? :D
unsigned small int or what ?
 
Probably uint32_t
Assuming I understand what you're trying to ask…
 
You did
 
4:13 PM
@Trowski I'm not sure what that is to do with Xdebug?
 
@Derick It shifts the offset of fiber->status, so the value is garbage.
 
What does Xdebug shift? It should shift anything?
shouldn't
 
@Derick The issue is that __SANITIZE_ADDRESS__ is undefined when compiling xdebug, so this is skipped, and now the offset of the status field is different than that of php-src.
fiber->status instead had the value of fiber->stack.prior_pointer.
 
@Trowski Doing conditional field inclusions based on a define seems like a bad idea?
 
It's wasted memory otherwise.
 
cmb
4:57 PM
@Trowski if that is a public header, there are still issues. E.g. php-src compiled without valgrind, but ext compiled with valgrind; then ext could access zend_fiber_stack.valgrind. Or simpler: sizeof(zend_fiber_stack) may not match.
 
@cmb An extension really shouldn't touch zend_fiber_stack.valgrind. It will also be meaningless if php-src was compiled without valgrind.
Though overall I see your point, as now the extension has a field that points to junk.
 
cmb
In that case, it's not meaningless, but a bad mem access; compiler won't tell, though. Can you make respective parts of that header private?
 
@Trowski you might try allocating the extra needed fields in stack allocate
 
@JoeWatkins The fields should always be a part of zend_fiber_context.stack if valgrind or the sanitizer is being used.
zend_fiber_context is meant to be used in fibers defined by an extension, so I wouldn't have control over that unless they're part of the struct.
 
you can't return the stack pointer from allocate ?
ie
> static zend_fiber_stack* zend_fiber_stack_allocate(size_t size)
now the size of zend_fiber_stack doesn't matter, because pointer, and the details about the size of it, and what you do with that memory is hidden in allocate ... not sure why that wouldn't work ?
so if valgrind is loaded for example the return (and allocation) is sizeof(zend_fiber_stack) + sizeof(int), and the same for other fields ... no ?
 
5:10 PM
Well, sure, though then we have another alloc.
I'm actually wondering if the extra fields are needed by the sanitizer, because it seems I can reuse the original pointer and size without issue.
 
well we do and we don't ... emalloc does not result in syscalls, we don't need to be so careful about avoiding that really ...
well, it looks like the lesser of two evils to me anyway
 
If the valgrind int was always there that's probably fine, it's only a few bytes.
 
you optimize this sort of thing when it proves itself to be a problem anyway, then you have the chance to come up with some local caching mechanism for blocks the sizeof zend_fiber_stack and reuse those allocations, but I highly doubt it would be a problem whatever
mostly you can probably leave it to the allocator, or ignore it, because you're not really calling malloc
 
@JoeWatkins Makes me think zend_fiber_context should just be a pointer in zend_fiber as well.
Eh, though that would complicate another fiber implementation if only given the context pointer, so never mind.
I think leaving the valgrind int there is fine, as a pointer to a stack will just use the same additional memory.
 
that's true, so see if you can do without asan ones ... I've no idea ...
 
5:18 PM
Looking at what boost did, seems I can.
@JoeWatkins Should I squash #7137 or should I fix up the commits so there's a clearer history in master?
 
squish 'em
 
6:03 PM
@JoeWatkins So you'd rather I malloc a variable size zend_fiber_stack rather putting it as the last field?
 
6:31 PM
Hello, chat! Do you know if there were changes in logic how an inherited class copies or reuses parent create_object handler between 7.4 and 8.x /cc @NikiC
 
I want to build PHP manual locally. How do I do that?
but I have PHP 8 installed and not PHP 5
Isn't there a working up-to-date release of PHD?
 
7:03 PM
I could be creative with the main_fiber_context stack, zend_fiber_context *context = emalloc(sizeof(zend_fiber_context) + sizeof(zend_fiber_stack)); context->stack = (zend_fiber_stack *) ((uintptr_t) context + sizeof(zend_fiber_context)); Not sure if that's too creative though :)
 
7:16 PM
@Trowski that's not what I meant
 
cmb
@Dharman hmm, isn't PhD compatible with PHP 8.0 yet?
 
It runs... finally, but with a lot of warnings
I am trying to debug this to understand where I need to make a change to fix one thing and I hate this already
 
cmb
consider to provide PRs for better PHP 8 compat
 
Why is there such a mess in that codebase?
Is no one maintaining it?
 
cmb
and yes, code is ugly, and supports too many formats
@Dharman lol
I think for years only the most necessary stuff has been done; almost nobody still "alive" really understands the code base :)
 
7:24 PM
@Trowski I meant more like this: ideone.com/qh43CI
 
@JoeWatkins That will be a pain to use. I have another idea that may be the best of both worlds.
 
@CraigFrancis I'll say this here rather than privately as I think it's a more appropriate place. I've found trying to help you with the is_literal RFC quite frustrating as you don't seem to take feedback or advice from me. In particular:
* I said that the words you'd written didn't make the case persuasively and I was in the process of redrafting them to make them better. But you didn't take that advice, and instead spammed people in this room with the version I said didn't make a good case. Which both wastes their time, and makes the RFC harder to pass.
* I repeatedly said you sometimes need to back off and take a different approach when you're failing to convince people. Instead you kept forcing the point, to the extent that you started insulting people.
* I've said repeatedly that the string concatenation is the wrong thing to implement for exactly the same reasons that I said to you multiple times, including this Wednesday. So when you ask me in an email today "I hope I've convinced you that concatenation is needed" - obviously no you haven't. You are instead being insulting, yet again, trying to get someone to say the RFC is a good idea, when you haven't addressed their concerns.
People are often busy, and I've been avoiding talking about the is_literal idea in here, because (imo) people are pretty busy with other stuff, and there's still a bad feeling about it.

Feel free to do whatever you think is appropriate, but no I'm not going to give it a positive message when I don't think it's the correct solution for PHP.
In case anyone else is wondering, I think I can make a pretty strong case for the is_literal without the string concatanation carrying the flag through, but i'm not going to have the energy to do that while a shitshow is occuring, or people are obviously right in the middle of four other things.

/pub
 
Why did you leave the pub? :(
 
@Trowski however you achieve it, you want zend_fiber_stack to be opaque, you need the implementation details vg/asan to be private ... there's no reason code outside zend_fibers.c would need to access the fields of the fiber stack, right ?
 
@cmb What's the minimal PHP version that needs to be supported?
 
cmb
7:36 PM
@Dharman hard to say; for us maybe 7.2, but MySQL also uses the tool AFAIK
 
MySQL uses PhD? Why? :-)
 
cmb
ask Philip :)
 
@JoeWatkins Nothing outside of zend_fibers.c should touch any of the stack fields, right.
Not just the asan/valgrind fields, but pointer and size too.
The simplest solution would be to make stack a void* and only define zend_fiber_stack in zend_fibers.c.
 
few minutes
 
7:52 PM
Code shouldn't modify zend_fiber_context->handle either though.
At some point we have to just entrust coders won't touch things they shouldn't.
 
/me laughs.
 
diff --git a/Zend/zend_fibers.c b/Zend/zend_fibers.c
index 1a3757041a..e440b1e915 100644
--- a/Zend/zend_fibers.c
+++ b/Zend/zend_fibers.c
@@ -59,6 +59,21 @@
 # include <sanitizer/common_interface_defs.h>
 #endif

+/* Encapsulates the fiber C stack with extension for debugging tools. */
+struct _zend_fiber_stack {
+	void *pointer;
+	size_t size;
+
+#ifdef HAVE_VALGRIND
+	int valgrind;
+#endif
+
+#ifdef __SANITIZE_ADDRESS__
+	const void *prior_pointer;
+	size_t prior_size;
+#endif
+} ;
+
 /* boost_context_data is our customized definition of struct transfer_t as
that
 
@Crell Note that I'm speaking in the context of C, where I can do anything if I really want :P
 
/me laughs even louder.
 
@JoeWatkins So making stack a void* and defining only in zend_fibers.c :P
 
7:57 PM
read as avoid* ... giving it a name is all we should do, but the layout shouldn't be part of abi
 
@JoeWatkins Yeah, naming it is nice.
 
don't need typedef in .c
what's that ?
 
@JoeWatkins Oh yes, had just copy/pasta
 
you've changed calloc to malloc here github.com/php/php-src/compare/…
you're not relying on calloc there ?
 
@JoeWatkins Goes along with this as a guard in case it was already freed. Could drop that.
@JoeWatkins Oh, maybe I am now, good catch.
Surprised tests didn't fail, but maybe that's luck.
 
8:12 PM
is there any way for that to actually happen, double free ? there shouldn't be ... unless something magical with fibers that I don't know about ...
 
No, that would be a programmer error calling zend_fiber_context_destroy twice.
	zend_fiber_context *context = ecalloc(1, sizeof(zend_fiber_context) + sizeof(zend_fiber_stack));
	context->stack = (zend_fiber_stack *) ((uintptr_t) context + sizeof(zend_fiber_context));
 
not our problem, ditch the set null and extra branch
 
Is that too clever?
 
it's less clear, and so worse, imo ....
 
I think "avoid heap allocations!" was pounded into me a little too hard.
Especially since it's not a direct heap alloc.
 
8:15 PM
it's fine advice ... but yeah ^^ that ...
 
@JoeWatkins Any reason I often see emalloc followed by memset instead of ecalloc?
 
ecalloc checks integer overflow is the only difference, so avoiding that ...
 
8:33 PM
@JoeWatkins Pushed some fixes.
 
cmb
Does anybody know what phpdbg_webhelper is for?
 
@Trowski okay, good
@cmb you load it in your normal SAPI, executing phpdbg_webhelper will cause the execution environment to be written to a unix socket, which phpdbg can wait for data on ...
 
cmb
8:54 PM
Thanks! So on Windows it does basically nothing?
 
yes
@Trowski github.com/php/php-src/compare/… should that be calloc ? (uninit for asan seems bad)
 
@JoeWatkins No, the asan fields are written first.
 
okay cool
 
I would never sell magical pills
 
9:02 PM
Obviously you'd keep them for yourself.
 
ofc
 
9:54 PM
@Danack I’m sorry we chose not to use your approach. I have always appreciated all of your input, and I did respond each time you asked me to read your comments, I've also attempted to meet up with you multiple times, I believe I have addressed this in the RFC, and I delayed further discussion here and on Internals at your request, however we cannot wait any longer, due to the feature freeze date, and the data and ease-of-use bears out Joe’s approach.
Joe Watkins’ knowledge about the internals of PHP, our testing, and feedback from developers, led us to supporting concatenation. The difference in performance is negligible, and it makes it easier to use for the majority of users with little knowledge. The functions you devised can still be created by developers who want to use them, and I have put that code as an example people could copy in the RFC itself.
I certainly hope I've been friendly and conversational with everyone, and if anyone feels like I’ve overstepped their boundaries please let me know. I know it can be difficult with new people in an environment. While I obviously feel strongly about security and this issue, I hope I’ve been responsive to comments, and have worked hard to answer people’s questions, both in the chat and in the RFC itself (with a probably too long FAQ section).
I care deeply about security, and making life as easy and safe for developers as possible. I certainly hope I have not trodden on too many toes in my haste to do so. Apologies again for not using your preferred method. I hoped I’d expressed enough that this was never a personal slight, and I appreciated your input. It’s why I wanted to meet up with you so I could express my thanks in person for your interest and input early on in the process. I apologise for any miscommunication on my part.
/fin
 
only it's php code doesn't mean it would not be an injection....
... nor its correctly encoded. e.g. US-ASCII is expected, php code can be UTF-8.
or even other forms of unicode with zend.multibyte.
 
@hakre Sorry, is this related to a previous discussion, or the is_literal RFC which addresses injection issues.
 
@CraigFrancis you're welcome.
the notion "written by the developer" is a problem for both.
 
not sure I'm following
 
only a string is literal must not mean in PHP its intend is legit.
the php code itself can already be injected, the is_literal check is completely lying then.
it gives a false impression so to say.
 
10:09 PM
how can it be injected? (just trying to understand what you are thinking of)
 
just a straight forward example: overwrite the file on disk.
autoloading .... just poisen it.
 
cmb
if arbitrary PHP code can be injected, all bets are off anyway
 
if the file has been over-written and executed, aren't you in big trouble already?
 
so where is the right place to take care? in the code? or elsewhere?
 
(sorry, I should add that I'm dyslexic, I can struggle understanding)
so the RFC covers how it would be used... have I missed something, or not explained it particularly well?
 
10:13 PM
the rfc is certainly fine, and you can add that function. a function more or less, who cares?
it's just that I think with dynamic code and then in there adding a dynamic check, what is it for?
 
So I start off with the "Background" which breaks this down into 3 parts... the problem (injection vulnerabilities), where this check been used elsewhere (the libraries that Google developers use in Go and Java), and how it would be used by PHP libraries... and there is the "Future Scope" section at the end which covers a bit more detail for the next step.
 
hmm, go and java? doesn't that ring a bell? last time I looked these are compiled when distributed.
 
Yep, and that's why the proposed implementation in PHP is slightly different.
 
is_literal("Hi $b"); // true
 
Yep, because the $b above is a literal
You can try it out on 3v4l.org/#focus=rfc.literals
 
10:30 PM
not saying it makes the intend of the approach bad, and I've read the comments from library authors that they would love to have that and it perhaps is reasonable (but type-hinting would be of benefit for it maybe that is in the next steps part), but as the introduction goes that injection is hard and so on, and all the education ... this is all so true, we can hardly not skip it in the end.
 
We will be tidying up any edge cases later, while that looks a bit weird, it's still written by the developer... maybe try $_GET['id'] = sprintf('1') to play with a non-literal.
@hakre Thank you
 
@CraigFrancis that works, but mind the addition at the end. 3v4l.org/M64hL#focus=rfc.literals
 
With type-hinting, that might be introduced later (assuming people ask for it), because it's still a string (a sub-type?)... the reason we are going for a function is backwards compatibility (libraries can call function_exists).
@hakre Thanks, I've made a note of it... if you want to see it more in action, I've got some examples of how it can be used
 
yes that makes sense, static analyzers can tell it already today I suppose, or are hopefully aiming for it.
which won't help the library authors, that's true.
 
yep, one day... I'll be working with some static analyzers on using this as well, but we need something in the language itself, because we can't get every programmer to use a static analyzer.
 
10:42 PM
library authors hopefully know about about expectations since PHP 7.
 
I would hope so :-)
 
> we can't get every programmer to use a static analyzer
do they have to? it is merely what the concerns are.
same goes for using (or abusing) a library.
no one must be educated. you can still get 75% or so, maybe even 80%.
so 20% is already done.
 
it's called herd education
 
The manual says dl is deprecated. php.net/manual/en/function.dl.php Can we deprecate it in PHP SRC also?
 
It's not just education, but also picking up mistakes
 
10:48 PM
wasn't that "swarm intelligence" ? :)
 
that's bold, I like it ;-)
 
@Dharman no idea. maybe there was a reason? maybe nikic knows.
 
so these are the kinds of mistakes I see far too often... the developer making mistakes when using a library... and later, covered in the Future Scope section, we address the developers not using a library.
 
@CraigFrancis if it's with declare(literal=1); this could be even backward/forward compatible.
and we could have the future scope with 8.1 (joking, likely 8.2) already.
 
so what do you see happening when you do declare(literal=1)?
is that the native functions changing?
 
10:53 PM
that libraries that offer the feature (like internal ones) can be used that way.
like the PDO example.
 
@hakre PLEASE NO!
 
The internal functions, like PDO, would still need to accept non-literal values... that's why I note libraries creating trusted value-objects.
 
If this is going to be supported in PDO, the best way is to trigger deprecation and move completely in the next major
 
@CraigFrancis which you can since PHP 5 for userspace libraries, can't you?
 
but regardless, declare() is definitely not the way to go
@hakre no, you can't, there's no is_literal() in PHP, you can't know if a string is user input or not.
 
10:57 PM
@SaifEddinGmati which won't work. next major could do the deprecation and then next next major would do the removal. this is what you want?
 
@SaifEddinGmati Is that more in terms of creating a stringable object since PHP 5 ish?
@hakre The blocking is a long way off... deprecation is second
 
@hakre why? deprecation can be triggered in 8.1, and exception in 9.0
 
@SaifEddinGmati Maybe... I just don't want to scare anyone off at the moment :-)
 
yea, i understand that, and it's best not to include PDO and other stuff in the initial RFC
 
deprecation/warnings are good enough to get the conversation stated (so many people today make mistakes without knowing).
 
10:59 PM
because people are more likely to vote against it, especially since there's no way to tell PHP that it has been sanitized
 
@SaifEddinGmati don't think so. deprecation is one thing, adding a new (language) feature another.
 
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