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3:01 AM
Minor Service Outage ・ Git Operations has Partial Outage
 
3:29 AM
All issues have been resolved!
 
so you say
 
 
2 hours later…
5:55 AM
I've added a closure to StackFrame proposal solving some ancient bugreport with missing information about closure collecting backtrace and this is fine I guess.
But then was referenced with a bugreport about adding objects to backtrace for exceptions, which is complicated cause it'd have to reference an object which might throw the actuall exception inside ctor
Now the only reasonal solution I can see is to use a WeakRef to that object, but dunno if then it all makes sense. For particular cases probably it would cause objects like services etc may still be alive and only the one failed at creation would have an invalid WeakRef, does that make sense?
FTR I haven't added closure to the proposal but only to my implementation to see if it wokrs
What is the hint about acronyms and uppercases for \PhP namespace? They all are case insensitive after compilation right?
 
Git mergin'.
 
6:11 AM
If I made a non-published wiki site for own purposes gathering all the RFC's I've made like wiki.php.net/rfc/brzuchal would it be a big sin?
I find it hard to find my own RFC's from the list
 
6:31 AM
When EG(current_execute_data) is cleared? I only found cases on shutdown, bailout etc. I was wondering if it's possible to pin a pointer to Exception and iterate over it later, but I guess the gc cleans all the arguments objects etc. in some cases, right?
 
6:43 AM
When the frame ends it gets cleaned up
 
Yes, but wouldn't it be dunno more performant to keep a copy in exception rather than a dump of all information inside array?
I'm trying to figure out if exceptions could be lighter
In fw's like Symfony and Larevil you often throw an exception only to produce a response like NotFoundException or similar which ofc is a big exceptions abuse IMO but that doesn't change the fact that it's used often this way.
 
Morning!
 
7:14 AM
\o
 
7:25 AM
@brzuchal the case of NotFoundException is still only a single exception thrown per request, the impact of that is not worthy of excessive optimizations imho
 
Maybe you're right. I worked with developers who used exceptions for flow control over in Larevil Jobs, then store the exception in logs and database and then continue with processing further jobs... masty habbits.
I also found uses for exceptions in validation mechanism which then are wrapped in another new exception, and another in higher layer - this causes stack trace being dumped from EG(current_execute_data) three times for storing in db and logging and putting back on a queue with the exception traces as well.
I know it's abuse but that doesn't change a fact that stacktrace is being built few times collecting nearly similar frameset shortened over the layers
And in the end no one gives a shit about the stacktrace much cause the only place where it's being inspected is the Sentry
It's just I think there're many use cases where the trace is no needed at all, but performed on every exception creation
 
@MátéKocsis Have you decided on whether we want to keep the value in the error message? If we do we would probably also want to do that in other places in the future.
I'm also cool with dropping it for now and addressing that later (the string preview is half assed ATM)
 
8:03 AM
@IluTov For a quick merge, easiest to drop it ^^
 
@NikiC Haha ok
 
8:16 AM
@brzuchal Do you want to withdraw the declare/halt_compiler RFC?
 
@NikiC TBH I don't know yet, I think it's still worth of voting on it cause I don't know if macro concept we discussed with @bwoebi should actually do that much with interacting to compiler state
@NikiC is there any other reason why it should be withdrawn? It's a simple addition allowing statements to look like a statements. The declare would be similar to const and __halt_compiler; to exit; - I still see it as an improvement
 
@brzuchal how is that related to macros?
 
@bwoebi my first impression was that macros could interact with compiler state and a core one like halt!; could replace __halt_compiler(); - statement :) but then after figuring out what macros could be with emitting ast etc. I see them better as not doing what I was thinking about, and do the powerfull feature they can which is parse and emit modified or new ast which is great.
 
8:37 AM
@brzuchal I think people.php.net would be better for that?
 
@DejanMarjanović it's basically the same with the difference that Session Tracking is fully automatic when enabled but less specific in terms of user meta data. Sending user meta data can be tailored to your needs but you have to specify what you want to use to identify users. This might have implications for GDPR compliance.
 
@NikiC Mind explaining what the problem is there?
 
@brzuchal especially halt! shouldn't be really possible as macros are on parser/AST level, not lexer
 
@Gordon I am sending "user ID" already to see how many users are affected primarily. It can be I have 1000 of "Script error." but 2 users affected. Think it's covered by Datenschutzerklärung/AGB since users must login first to use the application. Thanks :)
 
@Derick Yeah, did the update, now I guess need to wait 24h for the changes to take an effect, right?
 
8:45 AM
@Derick set_error_handler $context collects all the variables in scope and may change refcounts on them. Opcodes are not happy with that. This was fixed by performing a full copy of the context, which is ... expensive
Part of me thinks this is appropriate punishment for people whose code throws enough notices for it to matter
2
Also, I've come to realize that I've pushed nowhere near hard enough for the "reclassifying engine warnings RFC"
 
@bwoebi Yes, I realized that. But didn't knew it at the begining. That's why I said here some time ago that I may drop the RFC with declare and __halt_compiler, but now I know it 's not like that
 
At the time, this was mostly about making the language stricter, but I've since realized that these notices are a huge technical liability for us, that we've mostly been ignoring.You can make the engine crash in so. many. different. ways. by a nice combination of notices and error handlers
 
@IluTov I concur with Nikita: let's merge your changes without this first :) And we can discuss the problem separately. Although, TBH I still don't think it's needed because in case of any problem, one can add an explicit default arm either with logging or a custom exception. + There's the security aspect of displaying random values in exceptions about which I was reminded by Nikita a while ago
 
@MátéKocsis Works for me :)
 
@NikiC yeah well, but isn't that rather the fault of the opcodes emitting the notices not having a clean enough environment allowing for arbitrary code execution at notice emission places?
 
8:50 AM
@NikiC Xdebug does copy local vars too all the time, and I wish I could make that faster (by just bumping refcount) --- right now it uses ZVAL_COPY, like in:
 
@bwoebi Yes, that's the technical liability I'm talking about
It's really, really hard to make throwing of notices safe
@bwoebi See for example github.com/php/php-src/blob/…
 
fetch General error ・ PDO MySQL ・ #79808
 
@NikiC ugh.
 
@bwoebi And this is just baseline "doesn't crash" safety, I don't think that code is correct where array separation is concerned ;)
Which is why ... things in the engine should either throw, or be completely silent.
 
@NikiC can't we just … delay notice emission until opcode end? and then jump to a temporary notice/warning/error-handling opcode handler?
 
8:58 AM
@bwoebi not really, because that would result in incorrect behavior for people who use a warning to exception error handler
They would still see the side-effects of the operation
 
true
@NikiC but we're not always guarding that in vm currently
root@testsrv ~ # php -r 'set_error_handler(function() { throw new Exception(); }); $a = []; try { $a[$b] = 1; } catch (Exception $e) {} var_dump($a);'
array(1) {
  [""]=>
  int(1)
}
this still has the side effect despite of throwing due to undefined $b
We're currently sort of inconsistent in preventing these side-effects @NikiC
but TBH @NikiC I do not consider side-effects that bad when you throw due to programming error. I mean … It's just a side effect, and not the world in flames
As in: little practical gain in preventing these
 
9:25 AM
@bwoebi Maybe you're right
 
Wow rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON not passing ?! and I thought it'd be just a formal vote
@beberlei would it be possible for RFC Watch to always highlight "No" bars in red? It's confusing if you don' pay much attention to the legend.
 
10:07 AM
max = (x > y) and x or y
lua wat
 
help
 
@brzuchal the sky is the limit ;)
 
Yeah, I guess am not the only one who asks on something something :D
 
I didn't realize that lua is such a bad language
 
10:24 AM
@Tpojka :D wasn't considering it as a weird word
 
:D
 
You can also say "paręnaście" (12 - 19) which is included in "kilkanaście" (11-19)
Probably :)
 
@NikiC What does that even do?
 
@Derick (x > y) ? x : y
 
@NikiC a ternary probably
 
10:35 AM
@bwoebi I am not sure if I got you correctly, you saying 1.xB documents is a small amount for ES? Not sure if your PB stands for Petabytes :P
 
@DejanMarjanović yes it does stand for petabytes
 
So you basically say I suck, which is true of course, but what to do instead of bringing bags of money to AWS :\
 
it's not small, but I've been used to much larger datasets … I mean, logging of one week is already 1 billion docs
 
Yeah, true... 300k-700k updates per minute is my problem me thinks, it slows down everything and crashing, might be implementation (probably).
 
@NikiC tbh not really worse than the relatively commonplace [[ $X -gt $Y ]] && echo $X || echo $Y` in bash, except with words instead of symbols
 
10:42 AM
At least they have ternaries. Go does not
 
@IluTov Trying to look into that dynasm issue for match ... but really lost here
It doesn't really seem to have a concept of 64-bit immediates at all
mov64 seems to be the only thing that handles them, with special code.
 
@NikiC :/ does Dmitry have any input on it?
 
Guten Morgen
 
10:57 AM
@Ocramius I've checked datatypes, it's text/long/boolean and some nested, I don't see additionalProperties on them, probably that's valid just for "object"?
@Tiffany Moin moin
 
@NikiC I realised why you ask now, is that cause of you don't like it? I saw your thumbs down on a PR. Sure it's easy to keep the status quo without changing anything. But that only confuses and tend to introduce other syntax weirdness like hard to distinct between statement/expression I'd say.
 
@DejanMarjanović that's the default. In practice, you don't want any magic property on any document, as it causes a massive amount of index trashing
 
@Ocramius Default is false, right, right?
 
@brzuchal As mentioned, I think it's more the disliking of inconsistency/fragmentation than liking one syntax over the other.
 
we'll never get out of inconsistency without changing anything
 
11:05 AM
@DejanMarjanović default is true in json-schema
objects with additional properties are valid by default
 
@brzuchal That's true. But the ratio of effort/reward will be difference. In this case, the adding the additional syntax does not seem worth it to me.
 
PHP is full of inconsistencies, you can't reduce the number of inconsistencies without providing alternative and deprecation process.
 
Meh, back on the ignore list it is
 
@brzuchal Well, which features are worth the hassle is highly subjective.
 
@cmb I see ci.appveyor.com/project/derickr/xdebug/builds/33972048/job/… is still failing (due to the syslog issue). I'm happy to fix that myself, but I'm wondering why this isn't failing with PHP 7.4? Is this an API that changed in PHP?
 
cmb
11:17 AM
@Derick you have introduced that with github.com/xdebug/xdebug/commit/… for PHP 8 only :)
 
ah, yeah, I reported PHP's error callback again
Do I just need to use php_syslog instead of syslog ?
 
cmb
@Derick I think so.
 
OK. I'll give that a go (might force push to your branch/PR)
 
cmb
:D
 
@Derick Xdebug is not compatible yet with PHP 8, right?
 
But you need Git's master, not a released version
can't make a release yet, as Nikita and Dmitry will likely "break" things still. I expect a Xdebug 3 alpha at when 8.0.0RC1 hits
 
@Derick No problem, people were fighting in the company because of that, just want to confirm that. Thank you
 
Yeah, if you want it with 8, use the master branch - but also read 3.xdebug.org/docs/upgrade_guide
 
11:39 AM
Amazing, thanks for that!
We're having fun with PEAR/PECL
 
@IluTov Sure, also features showing up are not on a roadmap cause that don't exist therefore features showing up on discussion are also subjective feelings about what should be improved.
We can debate about what's worth or not. That doesn't change the fact there is no idea on what should be discussed and is worth discussion.
It seems like syntax purity is almost never considered a thing worth of try.
 
@brzuchal I don't mind discussion at all. I'm just sharing my opinion :) I think that's better than saying nothing and then voting no regardless.
 
TBH a question if I wanna withdraw my own RFC bugs me. I feel like it's saying someone to just go away with it.
 
11:57 AM
Hi everyone, I'd like to ask a few internals question if you don't mind :)

1) What is ReflectionUnionType::isBuiltin() supposed to return?
2) According to the Union Types RFC, I'd expect "self|parent" to error out because the engine could figure out it can be minimized to "parent", but it accepts this type as it is. Is this expected, or should I file a bug?
 
Morning
 
12:18 PM
@OndřejMirtes 1. isBuiltin() is only available for ReflectionNamedType(). Or was it just a typo?
 
cmb
isn't it inherited?
 
no
But I was also wondering a while ago that it could be in the abstract ReflectionType, too
 
12:35 PM
@MátéKocsis should I keep the "string given" part in the PCRE type error messages? I'm using the union type check so it can only be a string github.com/php/php-src/pull/5750
@cmb do you see a reason why ext\mysqli\tests\mysqli_stmt_attr_set.phpt is now failing on Windows in github.com/php/php-src/pull/5803 ? I thought I figured it out by getting it to work on release builds but now Windows is breaking my heart :(
 
@Girgias Personally, I'd keep them for consistentency with other similar messages, but I remember that Nikita asked for the removal of these, so I'm ok with it, too
 
@MátéKocsis Well it's only one specific instance of it and it's a rather weird edge case so yeah
 
Morning Phpeople o/
 
@Girgias FYI, I started working on the resource migration of OpenSSL. Slowly but steadily :'D
 
Nice :D Good luck with that one :p
@MarkR Yahallo
 
12:51 PM
\o Morning
 
@OndřejMirtes 1. That method does not exist 2. This is "best effort", because detecting all cases requires class loading. I think we might want to drop this entirely in the future, because things like type aliases would interfere with it.
 
@NikiC I always understood that as basic sanity checks which do no harm
 
@bwoebi yes, that's how it is intended
 
obviously, if you have type aliases this would be actually restricting, if we were to check these as well
 
1:11 PM
is there a generalrule when to create n new table in a db ? instead of inserting the data into one table ?
 
@Amundsen a table has a structure representing a thing, if you have diffeent things you have different tables. say "users" and "articles"
so you would introduce one table per thing, and not one table and put all the things in there
 
Also, most dbs have a column limit
 
@beberlei so if I have a config file with n keys and each key have x values I need to create a new table for each key right ?
 
@NikiC isBuiltin() is part of ReflectionType so it can be called on ReflectionUnionType too so it should do something, even if it's always false (which I'd like to know). Or am I wrong somehow?
 
@Amundsen no thats excesive "configuration values" can be a table, but it gets into tricky issues already with column types and what the primary key is
 
@cmb Seems it worked, merging. Thanks!
 
cmb
yw
 
FWIW, I'm up for the other improvements too at some point.
I will need to add more Xdebug binaries for the ZTS variant too
And should I still bother with 32-bit for PHP 8/Xdebug 3?
 
@OndřejMirtes the method is not part of reflectiontype, at least not in php 8
probably I moved it?
 
@Derick dont bother with 32 bit
 
1:24 PM
What makes you say that? :-)
 
we track what our customers use, and 0 use 32 bit
 
You don't support WIndows at all.
 
ah you mean for dlls, sorry
 
I was asking @cmb about Win32 builds ;-)
 
yeah sorry for my uninformed comment
could have read up :)
 
1:26 PM
should
 
cmb
@Derick I think the php.net community will have to decide that.
 
@IluTov github.com/php/php-src/pull/5821 maybe this will work...
 
@NikiC Alright, documented (if you did it on purpose): github.com/php/php-src/pull/5822
 
@OndřejMirtes thanks :)
 
@cmb I might just not make them, and make that choice for them, to get them to upgrade to 64 bit builds instead.
 
cmb
1:33 PM
@Derick it's, of course, your decision. However, there may be PECL builds available, but let's discuss that next week or so (there'll be an announcement from PHP on Windows team soonish).
@Girgias I can't reproduce locally; is that maybe a parallel test execution issue?
 
gd-webp cannot allocate temporary buffer ・ GD related ・ #79809
 
Wow, we've reached 50 people in the room... I think that's the highest I've ever seen
 
I can quit
 
@cmb Hopefully that's the case, as I have no clue why, will try to redo the CI pipeline a bit later to see if it's still there
 
So it won't :/
 
1:41 PM
@cmb OK. Please let it just be: screw 32-bit ;-)
And yes, PECL would still build them. It's just that I won't (or support them)
 
2:03 PM
@IluTov err, nevermind. I thought it worked, but apparently the function doesn't get jited at all anymore ... for some reason
 
2:17 PM
@NikiC Hm.. I don't understand the whole .lua part but from the .dasc it does look like the function should get jitted.
 
@IluTov I missed an offset adjustment, which made the encoding step fail, and we just allow that silently :( If I fix that it still crashes because the offsets look a bit off...
 
Have annotations been merged yet?
 
@LeviMorrison Not the new syntax I assume? Yeah quite a while ago.
 
Yeah, the new syntax.
 
@LeviMorrison Oh, no not that.
 
2:20 PM
Or is that frozen on the namespace segment stuff?
 
@LeviMorrison Yep, it's waiting for that RFC. Not sure what plan B is at the moment.
 
Next week for my work's hackathon I'm hoping to pair an ast transformation with annotations for instrumenting functions.
 
@LeviMorrison Yeah given that the namespace token RFC alone will have a voting period of 2 weeks this won't happen in time.
 
I'll just work off of the PR then, no worries.
 
@LeviMorrison you could that regardless though with the old syntax, a yay or nay wouldnt change anything for what you would want to do
 
2:24 PM
Usually newer PRs are better as they tend to also fix bugs and things ^_^
 
that happend inbetweens already curtsey to nikita and in the Attributes amendments RFC
 
2:42 PM
@IluTov python.org/dev/peps/pep-0622 - Of interest.
 
@Crell I saw that one recently :)
 
I think my big question is how it would work in PHP when destructuring an object (the most likely thing to want to destructure) is not a thing, since there's no guarantee the constructor params have even the slightest bit to do with the stored properties.
Unless it only works on enums, not arbitrary objects.
(Where we can insist on that sort of 1:1 matching.)
 
@Crell Yeah we should definitely not do it based on constructor params.
 
The more I learn, the more I agree with the article I read a while ago that class-level visibility control was just the wrong idea in the first place; it should be on packages only.
 
From my pattern matching experiment. In this one you can match properties. It also supports getters but hopefully if 8.1 introduces accessors this won't be necessary.
 
2:49 PM
That... is a syntax I could get behind. Much better than the let keyword which just felt clumsy. Although the way it breaks the private/public boundary is problematic.
Asymmetric visibility control would resolve that, though, by saying you can only match on public things, and now public things are safe to make public-read.
 
To be honest, I strongly dislike matching into object properties. For a dictionary (stdclass/associative array), sure, but for objects themsevles, I'd personally rather see a method call instead of a match (to invert the logic)
 
@ircmaxell Similar sentiment. I did it as an experiment and I really had trouble coming up with actual good use cases. The only good one is ADTs.
Most of the time it's less confusing to just access to property like you would today, and pattern matching is rarely significantly shorter.
 
3:07 PM
BC break in parse_url in PHP 8.0.0-dev ・ *General Issues ・ #79810
 
sudo: cd: command not found WTF
 
cd isn't an executable, it's part of the shell
 
ah
 
@Tiffany sudo su
 
If you need to go cd'ing into places you're not allowed, elevate the entire shell
 
3:14 PM
then you can cd
 
needed to make sure that the mount to shared folder was still active, and it is
sudo ls -lta wordpress.local (yes, working with wordpress...)
 
@ircmaxell Yeah, I agree that you shouldn't do that … but you cannot really distinguish mere value containers from encapsulated objects … but isn't that basically covered by proper ensapsulation of state? So basically: follow basic established patterns of OO design
 
Our sympathies :(
 
!@#$, needed to add guest VM to my Windows hosts file to get everything connected, somehow mistakenly moved my hosts file to OneDrive, so I remove it from OneDrive and go back to C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc and... hosts file isn't there... and it's not in Recycle Bin, FML
 
How'd you manage that :O it's system protected
 
3:21 PM
I pressed "Move to OneDrive" instead of "Open with Code"
and the prompt came up, which I thought odd because normally it prompts me when I try to save, but though "eh, whatever" and pressed continue... yeah...
I'm going to take a break... because in a flurry, I thought maybe I could undo the damage, but instead I removed the shared folder I created yesterday, which had the nginx.conf file I built...
lol
 
@ircmaxell Did you see the enum analysis I did a while back?
(Since Enums are the main place that pattern matching would probably be useful in PHP, is my guess.)
 
At least shared folder is recoverable, annoying to have to recreate, but fixable. Hosts file I'm going to have to do some digging to fix.
 
@Crell I think structs would be also really useful with pattern matching, as in the example linked for python (associative arrays/stdclass)...
 
Anonymous structs (assoc arrays) are the devil.
 
@bwoebi Oh I don't disagree. If there's a public property, pattern matching off it could be useful. But having ability to pattern match from method calls too (saving in a temp variable) would be really handy
@Crell why anonymous ;). I tried to get proper structs about a year ago, but didn't really go through
 
3:28 PM
With constructor property promotion and asymmetric visibility, I think that would be close enough to structs that we don't need another formal definition for it.
 
@ircmaxell Ah, I agree here :-)
 
@Crell two major differences: 1) ability to convert back-and-forth to/from arrays transparently, and 2) pass-by-value
 
1) __toArray() :-) 2) With better withX() support I think that could be obviated. Or make it a byval flag on the class when defined.

Making it a separate data structure from classes virtually guarantees that we'll be fighting over which functionality should be available to which (struct or class), which will inevitably mean all of it gets added to both eventually, which means we may as well just make it a flag on the class and be done with it.
 
How about...

#[Castable(array::class)]
#[Castable(int::class)]
public function __cast(string $type): array|int // must match annotations {
  ...
}
 
3:35 PM
I really go back and forth on magic casting often. A comparison method is the one that I would really want.
 
LOUD NOISES
 
@MarkR no - quiet voice
 
@Crell I think being able to have something akin to a comparable interface is cruelly lacking
As that would be pretty useful
 
fine, gawd! Just add generics and let people roll their own cast<type>(obj) to it and let the community sort it out :P
 
Casting on the other hand...
 
3:38 PM
Anyone want to partner on designing a working __compare()? :-) I can flush out edge cases if someone else can code it...
 
is there really a need for it? $this->compare($other) works just OK TBH
 
It's not for that. It's for usort().
Or rather, for allowing sort() rather than needing usort().
 
Meh, usort(function ($a, $b) { return $a->compareTo($b); }...)
 
class Point { public function __compare($b) {} }

sort($points);

I find that subjectively nicer if we can make it work.
 
like magic casts, it just makes me wonder what you're comparing
even for scalar types, sort has a bunch of different behaviour flags
which are effectively built-in comparison callbacks
 
3:43 PM
reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/hnjb5f/… who want's to tell them that FFI has no protections whatsoever
 
@MarkR lol.
 
usort($points, fn($a,$b) => $a->compareLatThenLong($b))
 
Because I doubt many people will get to the 'parting thoughts' bit
 
extend the partial syntax to method calls somehow, and you could write usort($points, ?->compareLatThenLong(?))
I'd much rather have that magic everywhere that used callbacks than the ability to define The One True Sort Order on a class
 
@IMSoP That expression hurts my brain
 
3:52 PM
@Crell seems unnecessary given the one-liner above does it already
 
@IluTov yeah, the syntax is awful, but the point is if we have smarter ways of calling named methods there's less temptation to make magic methods
 
@IMSoP Also, that might return two nested closures (each one param) or a closure with two params, not sure which one would be more correct. This looks very confusing to me.
 
I did say "somehow"; it wasn't a thought-through proposal in the slightest
 
@IMSoP Sorry, didn't mean to over analyse that :)
 
thinking about it, just make your method static, and partials already do the job: usort($points, Point::compareLatThenLong(?,?))
concise but explicit
although a short-hand for sorting where you want to apply cmp or <=> to a particular field or method on both sides would be handy; again, no idea what the syntax would need to be
 
3:58 PM
@IMSoP Or even just 'Point::compareLatThenLong'
(Or potentially better, type-safe syntax)
 
yeah, if we can make that resolve
function spaceshipSort($list, $fieldSelector) { usort($list, fn($a,$b) => $fieldSelector($a) <=> $fieldSelector($b); }
spaceshipSort($points, fn($x)=>$x->getLat());
 
Hello :-)
 
== usort($points, fn($a,$b)=>$a->getLat() <=> $b->getLat()); without having to write the ->getLat() bit twice
 
Does anyone know if it's appropriate/correct to add `"ext-pdo_sqlite": "*"` to `composer.json` for `require-dev` if e.g the tests default to expecting PDO Sqlite to be present to work?

I used `ext-…` stuff in `require` but have to admit never saw it in `require-dev`
 
@DarrenFelton Sort of looking at the moment. Any remote openings in your company?
 
4:04 PM
@mark You can. Personally I'd probably have the tests themselves get skipped if sqlite was missing instead, but depends on the details.
 
@Cre
damn
@Crell k, thanks for the feedback. The majority of the tests are using it, i.e. it's pretty integral and running the suite without them wouldn't give the necessary assurance
 
What's the library?
Like, is it an SQLite abstraction tool, or an app that happens to use SQLite?
Actually... if sqlite is already a require, then it doesn't need to be a require-dev to begin with.
 
cmb
Username auto complete is tab, not enter. :)
 
And yet it still pinged me for @Cre. shrug
 
@cmb thanks, learned it the hard way

Reminds of the mIRC days: "press alt-f4 to get free…" <user disconnected>
The library is graphql-laravel => https://github.com/rebing/graphql-laravel/pull/654 => a better part of it needs the DB as that's one of the reasons for using the library

there's no `sqlite` in `require` because it's agnostic and depends on what the user chooses to use with Laravel.

(but for the tests it's basically required)
 
4:10 PM
Ah, so the tests just need "a database".
 
Yes
 
Honestly I'd probably still go for flagging the tests to be skipped if there's no DB, if possible. But I don't think requiring pdo-sqlite in dev is a wrong approach under the circumstances. </entirely subjective opinion>
 
Thank you :)
 
Script stops and delivers incomplete web page ・ opcache ・ #79811
 
5:25 PM
@Trowski Unfortunately my employer is currently in a hiring freeze.
 
@DarrenFelton If that changes, let me know.
 
@Trowski Datadog is hiring for a PHP engineer.
 
@Trowski Do you accept any crypto currencies? Would make a one time contribution of XMR
 
@LeviMorrison Thanks, will look into that.
 
@Trowski Feel free to ask me any questions.
 
5:32 PM
@DarrenFelton Umm… not sure what GitHub accepts. We could probably figure something out though, I'm not familiar with XMR at all.
@LeviMorrison You work for them?
 
@Trowski Yes. In fact today is my 1 year mark.
 
I've seen repositories add their address of accepted currencies at the bottom of their README.md. If you're not into that scene though I'll find a more user friendly option for ya. Happy to be a sponsor for a few months, as I really appreciate your websocket-client
Gratz @LeviMorrison!
 
@DarrenFelton Yeah, something more mainstream would be appreciated. The money goes to a company that I have to declare as income. Crypto probably would just muddy the waters.
 
You're right, it's honestly a mess right now. I've had to write my own software just for tax calculation purposes
 
Any support you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thousands of hours have gone into developing Amp.
@LeviMorrison My knowledge of PHP internals is pretty limited to be honest.
 
5:49 PM
I'm lucky OneDrive keeps a backup copy of files... recovered my hosts file \o/
 
@LeviMorrison So… I'd love to apply, but I'm committed to some other freelance stuff right now, so I'm worried a full-time job would leave me zero time.
 
@Trowski What is up with you and Derick doing contracts and freelance? :)
How long are you committed to your freelance?
 
It's lucrative and gave me free time, but now with Covid everything just stopped…
Though the end of the year.
 
Datadog is an excellent employer, in case you care :)
 
You hear that @Gordon?
@Trowski Full time can take less time than freelance sometimes.
 
5:59 PM
hello
 
@DejanMarjanović I don't doubt that at all.
 
@Trowski I'm not sure how much time you need per week, but Datadog only controlled my schedule during onboarding.
So depending on how much time it is you need you could probably make it work for half a year.
I talked to my team lead about hiring people for contracts or for part-time and I guess it's logistically more difficult than full time. It's not impossible though and in my most recent one-on-one I advocated that we hire Derick part-time :)
 
If the hours are flexible, that would be a great advantage.
It sounds like the position is more about writing code interacting with internals than writing PHP code.
 
6:15 PM
@LeviMorrison Is the position completely remote or would travel be involved?
 
@Trowski It's remote except for meeting each quarter, although right now those are fully remote too.
@Trowski It's some of both.
 
@LeviMorrison Yes, like everything. :-D
I'll consider it. I don't want to apply if I'm not ready since that will just wait their time.
 
What country are you living in?
 
USA
 
That would make things easy for me and Sammy. We're both US based. Our team lead is in Italy.
 
6:20 PM
Apparently Microsoft SQL merge jobs can mark data as replicated, even though some of the data was not merged because it got interrupted. Unless you do some queries to validate the data it will not try to push that data again without brute forcing the push. I would think Microsoft would have some better validation logic to ensure nothing is missing.
 
@LeviMorrison I met Sammy a couple times at MidwestPHP. So you were traveling to Italy each quarter?
 
6:45 PM
^ Has Rob Swire vocal in this one.
One of my favorite's from Pendulum. This is D&B (drum and bass) so it is an acquired taste if you haven't listened to it before. youtube.com/watch?v=6tb0CwlQW0M
This was a 2014 essential mix youtube.com/watch?v=mzycv3cjFpI
 
@Trowski Usually NYC, though occasionally we go to other offices. Went to Paris last year.
 
@Tiffany Anyway- there are some options to check out.
 
thanks, I'll check them out
 
7:05 PM
@LeviMorrison can I ask for advice ?
 
You can always ask, but I may not have any to give.
 
I worked as php programmer for small projects, I have applied to many remote jobs but no success untill now what I can do to rise my chances?
 
@AnasBari can you post your CV?
 
I'll share my linkedin profile
 
Competition for remote jobs is big :)
 
7:17 PM
:(
 
why companies want most experienced why there is no room for beginers
 
It's hard for beginners to get experience when companies want to only hire experienced people, that's true.
You can do a few things to gain experience though, such as doing programming puzzles in the languages you know. Doing the same puzzle in multiple languages can be a fun way to learn what each language is good and bad at.
 
@LeviMorrison are you working remotely?
 
was it hard to find your current job?sorr if it is rude
 
7:25 PM
No, I was recruited from people in this room.
 
@AnasBari i think as a beginner it makes sense to focus on one specific thought after skill, like laravel or symfony framework, React.js or something like this. your points in the CV are very high level technologies (PHP, Java, MySQL), it is harder to match that to a positoin
 
I am very lucky to have never had to really apply to jobs. Always jobs have come to me.
 
Well he is an USA citizen working for USA company... let's call him... lucky. :)
 
@DejanMarjanović To be fair Datadog does hire internationally :)
 
@AnasBari I see a gap in your career, try to get more experience, work for some company in your country.
@LeviMorrison You got a job probably because of your knowledge, other things are bonus points. Didn't mean to say you got it because you're from US&A.
 
7:28 PM
I took no offense. I am very lucky.
 
@DejanMarjanović because war in my country most of the companies closed
 
@AnasBari also in the positions you mostly mention what the work was, but less what your impact was on that project, what the things were that you added, changed or improved, maybe what you think your biggest achievement was. this way i could understand more what you can brin to the table
 
And lots of companies do have trainee programs it's just near 0% chance they will "import" someone from other part of the world.
@AnasBari I know, it sucks. Do you want to stay there or you would move?
 
@DejanMarjanović leaving is not very easy
 
@Trowski Not required, by the way; just bonus.
 
7:34 PM
@AnasBari a CV + the cover letter are about selling yourself to your potential employer. thats why i would always advise to to write a specific cover letter for each job you apply to, so that you can highlight exactly what they ask for that you already did. and even one level more advanced is to adjust the CV to the job by highlighting in every position a skill that you performed what is also asked in the job description
 
@beberlei do you this I must rewrite my CV to be more convincing
 
yes for example, you mention AI in your linkedin profile. PHP jobs are often not in AI. if you highlight this as the first thing you are interested in, then this looks like a missmatch.
 
I like AI ,But I think AI jobs are more difficult to get
 
PHP is web stuff, like Wordpress, might be the best choice at this point :)
@LeviMorrison You lucky data dog!
 
@beberlei I will follow your advice thank u
@LeviMorrison @DejanMarjanović thanks and nice to meet you!
 
8:17 PM
I have opened the voting for "Make constructors and destructors return void" RFC again, thanks!
 
8:45 PM
@moliata yaay! I really hope it passes 😊
 
@MátéKocsis thanks! I really hope this passes too :p
After all, this is my first RFC
 
9:03 PM
!!rfcs
 
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