« first day (3410 days earlier)      last day (1538 days later) » 
00:00 - 11:0011:00 - 23:00

12:00 AM
@DaveRandom Yea, it's stupid that it actually expects .<img extension>$
 
I think it might be Referer: based client side, but iirc even that didn't always seem to be the case
 
Is Jeeves on vacation?
 
If it were me writing this, and this is just me, I would actually crawl the URL and inspect the Content-type headers rather than rely on the URI
 
@PeeHaa's server died a death
and we don't have alternative hosting atm (read: neither of us has been arsed to sort it)
there's a new bot in the works though
but we should really revive Jeeves in the interim
 
Stackoverflow does images wrong altogether. Look how badly they screwed up the aspect ratio on my profile pic
Yet the actual image is fine: i.stack.imgur.com/aB0YD.jpg?s=328&g=1
 
12:02 AM
isn't that gravatar's fault?
 
No
I don't have a gravatar
 
I've never had an issue with gravatar actually
just use it, it does work
 
Regardless, I'm saying SO sucks at images
period
 
I don't really trust WP with anything at all, but it's not like it's private data
 
no wonder they outsourced it to imgur
 
12:03 AM
WP?
 
I have zero problem with that, imgur do that for a living and SE don't, I don't mind outsourcing stuff so I don't have to think about it
@Tpojka gravatar is part of wordpress
or like an offshoot of it
 
Oh, I forgot. Now when you mention. :+1:
 
@Sherif you can escape markdown in SO: \-\-\- ta da \-\-\-
... oh it doesn't work now
it used to work -_-
 
One of best Jeeves' tweets is about WP. :D
 
!!blame @balpha
 
12:04 AM
`test`
 
@Tiffany sometimes :-P
10 mins ago, by DaveRandom
putting a backslash at the end of inline code is an unwinnable game
 
I swear \-\-\- used to work
 
@Tiffany I've never seen a flavor of markdown that allowed you to escape it. And I've seen about 45 different flavors. I know because I had to write a parser that translated between them all and I spent weeks reading through various markdown "specs"
 
I think you only have to escape either the first or last
:boobs: -> ( . )( . )
no ides
neither of them got rendered though
 
There's a reason why you can't easily escape markdown btw.
 
12:06 AM
I remember because I had tried it once, and it didn't work, and I was showing off about how much I knew about escaping stuff in SO chat, and it happened to work that time... but now it doesn't :|
 
I'm not surprised. If they did do it at one point it would have likely caused more problems than it solved.
 
``` maybe it was this syntax ```
\-\-\-asdf\-\-\-
 
don't blame markdown, chat isn't really markdown
 
Because markdown is already marked down. The moment you add an escape sequence to it, you're technically in markup land.
 
\~\~asdf\~\~
 
12:08 AM
it's a very small and very retarded subset
 
lol
 
Oct 15 '10 at 7:49, by pestaa
I hope we'll be able to exchange a couple of PHP-specific ideas here. :)
first ever message in #11, we need to have a 10 year anniversary party :-P
 
test`ing
 
yeh it's fine in the middle

Sandbox

Where you can play with regular chat features (except flagging...
gentle reminder btw :-P
 
433
Q: How do I escape a backtick ` within in-line code in Markdown?

smartcavemanHow do I escape a backtick ` within a code block? This is probably a duplicate, since I'm sure it's a common concern, but I can't find a question that addresses this specifically. How do I write List'1 with the "1" character still in the code-text format?

 
12:11 AM
`try and make this work`
oh that worked
there is definitely a thing which is impossible
`
 
There are lots of things which are impossible in markdown
 
`\`
that's it
 
``` this ```
 
you can't do <pre>\</pre>
there's just no way to do it
there may be a way but I never found one
and I tried, like, a lot :-P
was trying to special case it in Jeeves at one point for some reason
 
SO uses Daring Fireball flavored markdown so it's full of holes.
 
12:15 AM
chat is it's own little snowflake though
 
WAT? They don't reuse the same markdown parser?!
Blaspheme!
 
no it's a small subset and fully client side
oh no that's not right
 
It's fine that it's client-side. Most markdown is. But why the divergence?
 
there's a client side one which doesn't behave the same as server side
@Sherif you'd have to ask balpha, but I think it's something to do with oneboxing
+ keeping chat lightweight
 
oneboxing?
 
12:17 AM
as in when it magically renders images and tweets and stuff
that's the CSS class name it uses for those block elements
 
heh, is that what it's called
TIL
 
unofficially I think :-P it's certainly what #11/#17 refer to it as
(i.e. the people that put real effort into making bots)
 
oh huh
 
They took it from a meta post so I guess it originated somewhere on SE?
 
12:20 AM
tbf I like to bitch and moan about chat but considering it was basically built by one person in about 3 months 10 years ago, it's pretty fucking good
I couldn't have done a better job in those conditions
 
I did
 
remind me how many people are still using that now, a decade later? :-P
 
Hasn't been a decade
 
This room has existed for 9.5 years, that's as near to a decade as makes no difference
in terms of the internet it might as well be the middle ages
 
No, I meant it hasn't been a decade since I wrote that chat.
 
12:25 AM
that wonderful "whoosh" sound you just heard was my point sailing past you :-P
 
Didn't hear a thing.
 
/hides
seriously though, I have Start Trek to watch, bbiab
 
I used to work for one of the top 5 banks in the US. There was a guy there that wrote a Cobol function in 1987. It never broke once. Until one day in 2010.
 
I played with electronjs today and wrote app that shows jokes from various apis.
Probably several kB at most. It is being compiled to 167 MB. :D
 
O_O
 
12:27 AM
@Tpojka Oh, is that all?
 
Maybe wrong selection of language and/or compiler definitely. :D
 
Sounds normal for electronjs
 
I suppose but isn't it too for use. :)
 
I mean electronjs basically embeds chromium into an executable so...
 
Good point.
I didn't try if I'd use something like indexedDb where it would be stored: next to app itself?
 
12:30 AM
I have no idea. I've never touched electronjs to be honest. Don't have any practical use for it.
 
god damn it original scene rip of picard is broken
now I have to wait a whole 3 mins for a PROPER
#firstworldproblems
 
3 minutes should be quite enough for beer can opening. #justsayin`
 
I'm killing it by listening to the Fall Out Boy song that's been in my head for about a week
(who I don't even like btw)
well, "don't like" is a bit strong, it's certainly not generally at the top of my playlist :-P
Also I currently cannot recommend this highly enough:
(give it 90 secs before you turn it off)
 
I have to say, I'm not a big fan of teenage pop artists, but Billie Eilish is not half bad.
Despite all the emo she's actually a pretty decent artist.
 
she is interesting, in the same way as Adele was interesting at that age (but also different)
 
12:42 AM
Well, Adele was interesting because of her voice. I never even knew what she looked like until about a year after I'd heard her on the radio.
 
@Tpojka I want one!
 
Ace of Spades or Floppotron? :)
 
That is the coolest thing I've seen all year.
And I'm including the sneak peak I got at the iPhone 12 prototype.
 
Check this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd_IISXafRc

:D
 
12:46 AM
imagine how long that took to program :-P
but yeh that is epic
 
Now I definitely want one
 
Every element (instrumentâ„¢) has it's range of tones and for someone with musical ability it is quite shorter time then for one with no those. :D
 
they look like all 3.5" floppy drives, I really associate that noise with 5.25" drives
this feels like an epic rabbit hole to fall down, which I am going to hold off on at least for the 45mins it takes to watch star trek :-P
 
:D
This is all I watched that is related to GoT.
 
1:01 AM
uh huh
 
1:37 AM
So, quick poll of the room... if we added declare(target_version="8.0") and compile-errored if the minimum version wasn't at least that... how many times would Zeev try to stab me?
 
Can I stab you too?
 
<?php8
I won't stab ftr, I'll let other people do it
no point in ruining my DBS check certificate
 
<?php8 leaves too much scope for code exposure and wouldn't play nice with point releases
 
the main problem with that approach btw is that what will actually end up happening is Warning: Unsupported declare
for the next 20 years
ain't nobody got time for that
at that point you may as well just AoT compile and have done with it
(which, ftr, I'm not completely against)
 
Well with namespace declares we can realistically expect to get many more declares, so IMO now would be the time to pre-empt it
I'm planning on adding at least 2
 
1:46 AM
yeh but backwards compat is the name of the game with PHP
whatever you do there has to not blow up in your face if you are running 7.4
at least, not in a weird cryptic way
I get where you are coming from, but it feels like the beginning of an unpleasant journey
 
That logic naturally extends to saying we could never add any other declares, as they'll all throw warnings on previous versions. I think we would benefit from a "don't even bother contining" one
 
I would argue that composer already does that job for you (version-wise at least) and that any replacement for composer would do the same
and that if you aren't using composer you are an idiot, to pre-empt that argument
a file-level declaration doesn't feel great
 
People should be using composer, that doesn't mean the contents of the composer package are the same as what its run on
 
or at least, doesn't feel any better than a syntax error
@MarkR "php": ">=8.0"
again, if you aren't doing that you are an idiot
 
Okay, and how many installs actually run composer vs just bundling everything?
 
1:52 AM
literally all of mine, without exception, and everyone else can fuck off :-P
(I may have had a few drinks)
but the point stands
 
@DaveRandom Do you happen to work for MS, by any chance?
They share this philosophy: "everyone else can fuck off"
 
no, but I understand their mentality. People are fucking retards, and sometimes they need to be shown the back of a hand.
 
In fact, I believe that's their mantra.
 
the cost of giving people leeway is eternal blue
 
@DaveRandom More like MS does whatever's best for MS without regard to how it effects everyone else.
OK, mostly Bill Gates era MS, but still...
 
1:55 AM
people don't understand computers, and that's totally fine, I don't understand how fire alarms work, but I also don't complain when the people who do understand fire safety tell me what to do.
 
That doesn't always mean the people who make decisions about fire safety are necessarily right or that they're doing what's best for me.
 
true, but that's what open source is for
 
Remind me again, when did MS actually start contributing to OS?
oh ... right
 
democracy (mostly) works
I am an idiot, so is everyone else, I will listen to people who know more than me about stuff, I expect the same in return
I don't promise to be right all the time. but it's definitely better than 50/50
 
Not exactly the ideal attitude to condone.
 
1:57 AM
E_SUBJECTIVE
 
I admit there are those smarter than I and that I can't know everything, but I certainly reserve the right to think for myself.
 
I refer you to the earlier comment that "I don't promise to be right all the time"
I am quite happy to challenge/be challenged
but sometimes I cba thinking, and the same is true of literally every other human
 
@DaveRandom That doesn't dismiss the defeatist attitude of "I am an idiot, so is everyone else, ... "
 
that's not defeatist, its just realist
 
Is it?
 
2:00 AM
I am proved wrong daily
I think I'm quite clever, clearly I am wrong
what evidence do I have that doesn't apply to anyone else?
 
I'd posit a more realist attitude would be to suggest that if you poses any form of intelligence you should use it to help others improve rather than assume they're incapable of improvement.
 
I didn't say that, "idiot" != "unteachable"
 
It doesn't?
My dictionary says different.
 
you dictionary was also written by an idiot, though. That's an inherent property of my argument :-P
 
In any case it doesn't help to walk in with a negative outlook from the onset.
 
2:02 AM
idiot means "doesn't know", not "can't know"
"cba knowing" is kind of separate
I cba knowing loads of stuff btw
I really do not give a flying shit about loads of stuff
I trust other people to know those things
 
You have more faith in people than I.
 
not at all, I also think that people are idiots (see above :-P)
this is essentially a somewhat crude description of how to define "society" as an abstract concept :-P
 
Well, you certainly imply that you are more trusting than I. I like to think that I can only trust people by witnessing their actions and that takes getting to know someone which requires some time. In the mean time I trust few and rely mostly on my self to make informed decisions. I don't default to trusting in others until I've found verifiable evidence that they are very trustworthy.
 
everyone is stupid, so lets limit our stupidity to particular areas, so the average stupidity is lower
we also have science, which is a framework for determining how stupid everyone else is
if you have a better model I'm happy to hear it, but essentially the pinnacle of human achievement is accepting that we know fuck all
 
@DaveRandom I view science as a framework to reaffirm one's own belief system actually.
The scientific method, after all, was invented by Muslims to prove that the Quran was truth.
 
2:10 AM
how did that work out for them? :-P
The whole point of science is "prove me wrong"
 
Went pretty well until an imam decided that science was the enemy
 
the basic position is that everything is wrong
 
I'd say pretty good given that it brought about the Renaissance.
@DaveRandom I don't see it that way. I see more as "give me a reason to keep going"
Which sometimes is reassuring
 
Al-Ghazali wasnt it
 
@MarkR I honestly don't recall any accepted scholar of Islam declaring science was the enemy.
 
2:13 AM
Science is all about objectivity. e.g. I am subjectively the best person on earth, and that makes me objectively a cockburger. Which one seems more likely?
I am also more than a little bit pissed
both subjectively and objectively
I am, however, at the point of pissed where I can mostly spell stuff correctly
 
You are a bit like a drunk man arguing metaphysics with a squirrel in the park :P
 
@DaveRandom You miss half of science. You first have to start with a theory. What can be more objective than external reaffirmation supports internal thesis.
 
I feel like I don't come off worst from that observation so I'll take it
 
Without a basis for experimentation (your hypothesis) the scientific method doesn't prove or disprove anything.
 
@Sherif nope, the entirety of science is about putting your data along with your conclusion, so that others can try to obtain the same data and reach the same conclusion. How you arrive at the data, or the desire to obtain it, is not science precisely because it is subjective.
everything else is just fluff
it's an epistemological framework, nothing more
 
2:18 AM
You fail to recognize the epistemology behind it.
 
I'd also like some kudos for spelling that correctly without google
after 6 cans and half a bottle of wine
I am totally the best
 
LOL
kudos
 
I'm also aware I may be making no sense, ftr
but subjectively I don't currently care
 
I'd say you're about 80/20
 
@Tiffany will message me on whatsapp tomorrow when I am making a bacon sandwich and being sad, I might care then
 
2:26 AM
lol
I was partway through reading all of that when you tagged me
I'll be making cinnamon rolls tomorrow
Semi-related, but why are you awake @DaveRandom?
 
tbf i didn't wake up til >12
it doesn't bode well for monday
I also @Tiffany you regularly message me at like 4am so you can piss off :-P
 
My phone goes on DND mode post bedtime. Unless I'm on call and then pagerduty is allowed to disturb me.
 
you aren't even drink wine straight out of a bottle because you cba washing a glass
that's not a thing to be proud of but it's still a thing
 
@DaveRandom yeah but it's because I go to sleep at 8pm my time and wake up at 3am, so 9am your time
 
my gf also is doing the same thing despite me having done the washing up in her house ~12hrs ago
who's the real winner
:-P
@Tiffany all the cool people are asleep at 8pm
:-P
 
2:40 AM
I was legit asleep at 8pm... fortunately I woke up at midnight
 
@DaveRandom I'm sometimes in bed at 7. Tonight didn't work out that well cause late laundry
 
@MarkR "fortunately" is pushing it
 
I've not had a full nights sleep in months
 
I have to be in Preston at 7am on monday
 
I usually sleep a few hours in the evening, get up again around midnight, 1amish and start work again until 5 or 6... then sleep until noon
 
2:42 AM
not even the people who live in preston can be arsed with that shit
@Tiffany my phone is broke, I can see you messaged me but not what you said :-P
(getting a new phone on tues)
@MarkR "As i take hits from bong.."
by which I mean, i used to sleep like that but now I sleep mostly like a normal person
 
interface ModuleUpdateLoopAlwaysAvailableHandlerInterface

PHPStorm: Wait, that's illegal!
 
no, that's java
HandlerInterfaceBeanStrategy
@MarkR tbf PHPStorm has a point
 
@DaveRandom lol. TL;DR drugs help with my hip but I just stretched in such a way that it's going to hurt in the morning while putting sheets on my bed :S
 
changing sheets is for wusses
(that is the opposite of what I think :-P)
 
I've ignored my hip for several years, and it's biting me in the ass now
Almost literally
 
2:52 AM
Hips don't lie, but they ain't got teeth
 
It's not like it's a big reach
some people don't mind a bit of biting tho
 
But in honesty, I think it's my complete lack of exercise that's done the most harm
And trying to catch up on the past two days isn't helping
 
$wine ^ $spelling
it's definitely hitting
@Tiffany butt in honesty you mean
$spelling--; $comedy++;
 
Lol
 
I really need to work on my fitness... hard to do when I'm mainlining chocolate digestive biscuits to give me the energy to work 12 to 18 hours a day
 
2:54 AM
@DaveRandom fuck off.
 
@DaveRandom as opposed to the THC:CBD I took, pain is lessened but don't feel high
 
isn't that the whole point of legal :-P
 
Not if I want to function
And I prefer functioning :P
 
re-read that...
@MarkR riesling, crisps, fags and cooked meat is where it's at
 
I prefer my neurochemistry to only be influenced by yorkshire tea
 
3:01 AM
The word "only" is my entire problem with that
 
@DaveRandom I don't smoke, if that's what you're implying, tobacco or otherwise
It all goes through my stomach
 
that is biologically false :-P
but also fine
I do not endorse smoking
although I do enjoy it
 
I don't endorse it or enjoy it, lol
 
next time you are on the left hand side of the dutchie, get on it
otherwise, smoking it legit bad
(mkay)
 
Left hand side of the dutchie...
 
3:08 AM
it's also soooooooo goooood
 
@DaveRandom it messes with my lungs and throat pretty bad. You know, because inhaling something burning isn't supposed to feel great, right?
but that's why I avoid smoking anything now
 
7 mins ago, by DaveRandom
I do not endorse smoking
if it's not working for you, don't do it
 
@DaveRandom which is why I said I don't enjoy it :P
 
3:35 AM
And on that note, goodnight
 
4:22 AM
@MarkR Personally, I prefer Tetley tea, but yorkshire is pretty damn good.
 
Have to go to Yorkshire Gold for the best of the best
 
4:43 AM
Alexa added to cart
What I like most about yorkshire is it's not a bitter tea
 
good grief thats extortion.. it costs £4.50 in the uk
 
4:59 AM
Well, I imagine the UK doesn't need to import their own tea or pay tariffs or shipping costs on it.
 
The UK imports all of its tea, it's not exactly native.
 
Really? Yorkshire tea is not grown in Yorkshire?
What a sham
> Alexa, cancel that order!
 
New Zealand and Shi Lanka mainly if memory serves
 
o/
 
5:02 AM
Something tells me if I drop by Whole Foods I'll find it for the same price there.
 
it's the mixture of tea leaves that gives tea it's name, not where it's grown
the only thing you can grow reliably in yorkshire is a beard
we have to import tea from amazon to spain, because pg tips are roughly 1 million euros a box of 40 .. we bought 1100 typhoo bags on amazon
they're shit, but I have an entire sack of them and use them three at a time
 
my sympathies :(
 
the worst is the tea marked "english breakfast tea" in the shop ... the people who make these have never seen a real cup of tea, it doesn't even taste like tea
 
You apparently haven't tasted Lipton tea.
 
not big tea drinkers in spain, they'll have a beer with breakfast before a cup of tea
 
 
5 hours later…
10:05 AM
Is this correct?
> we should keep codebase and databases on two different (separated) servers but in the same network.
 
entirely dependent on use case
 
when that practise is a good idea?
 
almost always
 
Configuring services, particularly for memory usage, (particularly for DB servers like MySQL) can get tricky when they're all on a single server, especially if the server is operating near capacity. With separate servers configuration is a lot simpler.
 
@MarkR what's the benefit?
 
10:10 AM
Allen put it well.
 
@AllenJB you mean server1 with 8GB Ram (for databases) and server2 with 8GB Ram (for codebase) isn't the same as one server with 16GB Ram (for both the codebase and databases) ?
 
A database is typically going to eat up all the RAM you've got on large production sets
You can configure it not to, but generally dedicated is best
 
I see ..
thanks
 
10:23 AM
@Shafizadeh The problem with doing it that way is that capacity planning becomes much more difficult over time as different software competes for the same resources. That and the fact that scaling vertically is almost always the way to go anyway so it makes sense to cluster servers together based on a logical domain boundary.
 
ANd it's not just memory. (Disk) IO patterns between code and database are also very very different
 
Indeed, but since most databases are harder to scale wide you tend to lean more towards memory optimization so that you can avoid the nuances of a distributed database solution.
At least up until you hit that ceiling and then you're forced to do so :)
 
@MarkR Your new RFC is indeed tiny :-) Would you be still be interested to talk about that, and also about wiki.php.net/rfc/use_global_elements (Tyson declined to talk about it)
I'd distribute a database for failover first...
 
@Derick function_and_const_lookup wasn't anything to do with me?
 
I know, it was Tyson.
But that doesn't mean you can't explain/chat about what it was ;-)
 
10:35 AM
It's all fun and games until you have to deal with a vertical database.
 
I wouldn't be comfortable speaking about another RFC I voted against if the author has declined. Now if you wait until I RFC declare(platform_min=8) and people try to lynch me, then sure :P
 
And then distributed is a nightmare you can't wake up from :)
 
A "Vertical" database? Never heard it in that form
 
A column-oriented DBMS (or columnar database management system) is a database management system (DBMS) that stores data tables by column rather than by row. Practical use of a column store versus a row store differs little in the relational DBMS world. Both columnar and row databases can use traditional database query languages like SQL to load data and perform queries. Both row and columnar databases can become the backbone in a system to serve data for common extract, transform, load (ETL) and data visualization tools. However, by storing data in columns rather than rows, the database can more...
 
Ah, these.
 
10:38 AM
Yea, I still have bad dreams from these :/
 
Was about to say "isn't that just an index table?" then saw that's what the article said
 
It makes sense with certain data sets as a performance optimization. But where the nightmare begins is when you want to distribute it wide.
 
i'm a big fan of document stores (like MongoDB)
 
shill
 
what
 
10:43 AM
Didn't you work for MongoDB?
 
I did. So what?
 
Well then... how can I trust anything you say :P
I joke, of course
 
OK, whatever
 
10:54 AM
o.O
 
00:00 - 11:0011:00 - 23:00

« first day (3410 days earlier)      last day (1538 days later) »