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02:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

2:30 AM
Everyone is asleep... time to post a gif...
 
> $ composer require sentry/sdk
Package operations: 17 installs, 0 updates, 0 removals
  - Installing ocramius/package-versions (1.4.0): Loading from cache
  - Installing http-interop/http-factory-guzzle (1.0.0): Downloading (100%)
  - Installing php-http/discovery (1.6.1): Downloading (100%)
  - Installing clue/stream-filter (v1.4.1): Downloading (100%)
  - Installing php-http/message-factory (v1.0.2): Downloading (100%)
  - Installing php-http/message (1.7.2): Downloading (100%)
  - Installing php-http/promise (v1.0.0): Downloading (100%)
not_okay.gif
 
2:53 AM
Isn't it past your bedtime over there?
I'm up doing Calculus.
 
kind of.
/**
 * Creates a new Client and Hub which will be set as current.
 *
 * @param array $options The client options
 */
function init(array $options = []): void
 
 
1 hour later…
4:03 AM
i decided to try create the quiz myself i created a procedure that stores answers and questions in a text file that opens every time the code is executed.
Now i just need 2 loops 1 loop that stores the questions and answers into a form
and 2 loop would create a hyperlink that would open the form i just dont knw how to do these two things
so just like the text file they would everytime the code is executed
*open
 
4:31 AM
charging li-ion 18650 that are at 0.3v isnt fun
waiting for one to catch fire...
 
5:15 AM
@NikiC IT HAPPENED
7
 
\o/
 
@JoeWatkins Congrats! All green!
 
well, in one branch anyway, waiting for dmitry to fix jit in master ... says he can't reproduce it ...
 
Well... have a productive day all. Heading to bed. Night!
 
5:43 AM
Good morning
 
Good Morning Room.
 
6:07 AM
morns
 
6:34 AM
@JoeWatkins a miracle :-P
 
it's the best start to a day I've had in weeks :)
 
 
1 hour later…
7:47 AM
is there already the beginning of the tensorflow ffi php wrapper? Cant find the simplest start repo
 
yes, I've migrated mariadb to postgres in test!
 
thx
 
@JoeWatkins So, now just the macos + release + jit failures left right?
 
yep
although dmitry said he uncovered something to do with cli server tests, but I don't see them failing on azure and haven't looked on the vm yet ... I will later today though to see if I can reproduce those
the build on the vm and on azure are different, I manually compiled deps for the vm, probably we should try to build exactly as azure does, now that we can do it pretty reliably ...
maybe this is why he can't reproduce the math fails also
 
8:00 AM
insuperable incapable of being surmounted, overcome, passed over, or solved
 
might have something to do with the way I built glibc, but I'm totally guessing ...
 
You built glibc?
What libc does macos normally use?
 
urm, I'm not sure, see glibc source in /opt/src, I can't actually remember building it ... but I wouldn't remember ...
apparently I couldn't have built it ...
and they use their own I think
then I'm all out of ideas, the other deps don't look related at all
 
8:22 AM
@JoeWatkins is there a master build lying around on the macos vm?
 
PHP 8.0.0-dev (cli) (built: Jun 18 2019 13:01:31) ( ZTS DEBUG )
Copyright (c) The PHP Group
Zend Engine v4.0.0-dev, Copyright (c) Zend Technologies
    with Zend OPcache v8.0.0-dev, Copyright (c), by Zend Technologies
 
Or need to rebuild /opt/src/php-src?
 
it's in dmitry's home
(you have sudo)
dstogov is username
 
um and where is the home dir?
 
sudo su - dstogov
 
8:26 AM
@JoeWatkins thanks :D
hm will have to rebuild as release anyway
 
probably we should have a /opt/php/php-src-master
 
Damn is configure slow
 
I think I know why that is ... it's a dynamic disk ... and the physical device is not brilliant (I can hear you configuring, the disk is so busy) ...
I've since read it's better to used a fixed size disk, or a physical one ...
 
Never had problems with dynamic discs
 
me neither
never ran mac on a vm with any success before though ...
 
8:33 AM
Crap, I think I have to configure again...
 
it is slow to do everything, that's probably why we have 4 cores in azure for mac, but on reading about how to make it go faster, that looked most promising, since I can actually hear it struggling ... when we compile php on nevis, which is (more or less) the same workload for the disk, it's not nearly as busy ...
maybe -C might help, a little ...
 
Hm I can't fetch the php-src repo anymore
/Local/Users/dstogov/php-src/ext/opcache/jit/zend_jit_x86.dasc:1743:8: error:
      use of undeclared identifier 'tsrm_ls_cache_tcb_offset'
                        if (tsrm_ls_cache_tcb_offset) {
 
did you forward agent ? it's using git:@ url
I'll just change the scheme to https
 
I mean locally, not in the vm
 
oh, that's odd
 
8:40 AM
Does it work for you?
https does work for me, but git: doesn't
 
krakjoe@fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ git fetch
remote: Enumerating objects: 4, done.
remote: Counting objects: 100% (4/4), done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (3/3), done.
remote: Total 4 (delta 1), reused 3 (delta 1), pack-reused 0
Unpacking objects: 100% (4/4), done.
From git://github.com/php/php-src
   fb95043acf..571c6bc3f3  PHP-7.4    -> origin/PHP-7.4
   8cc26690b5..c34f7db5bc  master     -> origin/master
 
git ls-remote -h "git@git.php.net:/php-src.git"?
 
it's asking me for a verification code
 
verification code?
 
krakjoe@fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ git ls-remote -h "git@git.php.net:/php-src.git"?

Verification code:
git@git.php.net: Permission denied (publickey).
fatal: Could not read from remote repository.

Please make sure you have the correct access rights
and the repository exists.
yeah, probably because of the way I have jump setup ...
even when I add git.php.net as source, it still asks for verification, has someone moved a machine or something ?
when I remove my jump setup, it does this:
krakjoe@fiji:/opt/src/php-src$ git ls-remote -h "git@git.php.net:/php-src.git"
git@git.php.net: Permission denied (publickey).
fatal: Could not read from remote repository.

Please make sure you have the correct access rights
and the repository exists.
 
cmb
8:47 AM
@JoeWatkins, unless you're planning to push, use git.php.net/repository/php-src.git or even github.com/php/php-src.
 
yeah I have pushurl, read upwards a bit, nikita doesn't seem to be able to fetch
 
I can repro the jit failure
<?php
define("MIN_64Bit", -9223372036854775807 - 1);
var_dump(MIN_64Bit - 1);
Is enough to reproduce it
 
do the tests fail also ?
 
yes
cmp $0x4, 0x68(%r14)
jnz .L6
mov 0x60(%r14), %rax
sub $0x1, %rax
mov %rax, 0x50(%r15)
mov $0x4, 0x58(%r15)
Clearly an overflow check missing, now to find out why...
ugh how do you use lldb
it's always "unable to attach"
time to break out the printf debugging...
 
9:16 AM
needs sudo
because of the way it traces
 
ugh thanks
 
Need help
Can anyone suggest is there any alternative tool like POSTMan in PHP
 
okay, I think I have it
 
Can you share the link
 
9:27 AM
Can someone please confirm that git@git.php.net works for them?
nikic@MUNIT-271:~/php-src$ ssh -vvvT git@git.php.net
OpenSSH_7.6p1 Ubuntu-4ubuntu0.3, OpenSSL 1.0.2n  7 Dec 2017
debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config
debug1: /etc/ssh/ssh_config line 19: Applying options for *
debug2: resolving "git.php.net" port 22
debug2: ssh_connect_direct: needpriv 0
debug1: Connecting to git.php.net [2a02:cb41::5] port 22.
Ahh, the problem is the ipv6 connection
"fixed" (disabling ipv6 globally...)
 
Sam
Hey guys I have a general web dev question which isn't specifically related to PHP but I thought here may be a good place to ask. I've set up a micro services architecture with multiple services where a user can (if authenticated) consume so of its data. My question is however, if I now want to build a front end application, how would I go about allowing the front end to consume these backend services without auth?
 
@Sam when you say "without auth" you mean SSO I guess?
Because if you mean SSO then the backend services should be already authenticated and the webapp doesn't need auth
 
Sam
9:44 AM
@Code4R7 Well I'm not really sure. If you consider sites like Yelp, if you go there website you can view a load of recent reviews without being signed in, but to create a review you need to sign in. However if you try pulling a load of review data from their backend service via something like postman you'd get denied access
 
they got diffrent rate limits and access rights for anonymous access and access with a propper session
 
Sam
And is it possible to verify (via a header) that the request is coming from my specific application and completely deny any request coming from things such as postman?
I'm hesitant of using headers because you can easily manipulate headers in things such as Postman
 
@Sam no. Its not 100% safe. You always can implement a bot that does the same as your frontend
You can reverse engineer every private api out there.
 
Sam
oh really
Even paid APIs?!
 
They got a access system. You wont be getting to the point to create a propper api_key or something like that
do you access all the diffrent backend services independent or do you have an api gateway?
 
Sam
9:49 AM
I use an API Gateway
I use Ambassador and looking at using ORY oath keeper as an access control mech
 
@Sam this is what X.509 client certificates are for...
 
Sam
@DaveRandom Not familiar with that
 
well, to an extent, it might still be possible to extract the certificate from your application
 
in the frontend?
 
@Danack If you were to create a V2 of Auryn that switched from runtime DI to compile time, type-safe DI, assuming you were working with a fully compiled language, how would it work? It would basically generate factories and that's it?
 
9:51 AM
getambassador.io/user-guide/advanced-rate-limiting ambassador hat all the access things youre looking for
 
you can only do it if you are restricting your users in such a way that they must get a cert from you to access it
 
oh
This feature is supported in Ambassador Pro. Ambassador Pro helps developers and operators accelerate their adoption of Kubernetes.
 
actually now I say that I'm not sure browsers support that kind of narrowed scope
 
Sam
@user3655829 I'm not using the pro version
 
Sam
9:54 AM
99 problems and money's 1
 
but its like that. You have to make an access system with diffrent rate limits. Probably with jwt or similar stuff
 
Is this correct? (English perspective)?
> We're currently use "UTM" to make landings trackable.
 
good enough, yes
I don't like the word "trackable" but I think it's valid
I would probably go with "to track landings"
or "to facilitate the tracking of landings"
 
I see, thx buddy
 
Sound interesting. Are you a rocket scientist?
 
9:56 AM
I meant, is it ok to use "we are" and then word "use" without "ing" ?
 
or just playin ksp?
 
@Shafizadeh oh I missed that
yes it should be "using"
 
should be "using"?
ok thx
 
"We use" or "we are using"
either is fine
 
I see, thx
 
Sam
9:57 AM
ahh looks like they do basic rate limiting too
 
@user3655829 lol just got that :-P
ugh yeh I don't think you can reliably restrict the usage of client certificates like that, unfortunately
but also... stop trying to hide public APIs
 
Sam
@DaveRandom bummer
@DaveRandom Well I only want the APIs to be consumed by my web app, not directly by the user
 
what you are doing falls broadly into the category of "security through obscurity"
@Sam why?
that's the key point, really
 
no dont waste your time at that topic. You can even get the facebook api because of this. They arent real "public" but you wont never make such a thing only for you useable
 
what do you gain from it?
Security through obscurity (or security by obscurity) is the reliance in security engineering on the secrecy of the design or implementation as the main method of providing security for a system or component of a system. A system or component relying on obscurity may have theoretical or actual security vulnerabilities, but its owners or designers believe that if the flaws are not known, that will be sufficient to prevent a successful attack. Security experts have rejected this view as far back as 1851, and advise that obscurity should never be the only security mechanism. == History == An early...
 
Sam
10:01 AM
What do I gain from keeping the api's internal?
 
> The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) in the United States sometimes recommends against this practice: "System security should not depend on the secrecy of the implementation or its components."
When people try to hide stuff it makes it look like they have something to hide, and then people will want to know what
you might as well put a button on the web site labelled "do not press this button"
what's the first thing you will do if you see that button? :-P
 
@sam in a normal architecture with forms and normal php scripts behind that youre trying to force the user to use a webbrowser to access the endpoint of the forms. There is no way something else sends this post request to your endpoint.
 
Sam
Yeah I hear you. In the case of a site like Yelp, user can make reviews and review other reviews while navigating the site, but then charge companies access to review based insights. If those review APIs are public, nothing is stopping them from pulling the data and analysing it themselves
 
you wont try to hide the post endpoint from the user if this wouldnt be a microservice architecture
Sam, you could crawl the website. Its only 1 hour more work
 
@Sam yeh but that doesn't stop people scraping the site to get the data anyway
the trick is not not expose that data in the first place
 
10:05 AM
@JoeWatkins macos jit fixed by github.com/php/php-src/commit/…
 
basicly nothing changed with that microservices behind the scenes. The problems are only visible for you now. But they existed the same 30 years ago with big monoliths
 
Sam
@DaveRandom And how does that work
 
@NikiC awesome
 
Sam
I don't think its a very straightforward task crawling a website like Yelp for a specific set of complete reviews. You might get some, but not all, surely
 
They got a team of 25 devs whos task was to make it hard because the business of yelp and their business enemys was sometime to steal all the reviews
but they only made it harder not impossible
 
10:08 AM
@Sam depends what you are doing, but fundamentally: the data shouldn't be publicly accessible from the internet. If you have microservices talking to each other, restrict them by IP address (or that's where client certs might actually be useful)
but the public facing bit shouldn't be able to access that data
it's not like you are processing data on the front end (right?)
 
@JoeWatkins I'm also thinking that we should try to run sanitizers in CI ... if overhead allows
 
to give a better answer I'd need more specifics about what you are are doing and how it's wired together
 
Sam
@DaveRandom Yup, you're right. I have a Kubernetes cluster where all my services are internal and sitting in front of the cluster is a gateway, so the services themselves aren't actually exposed.. but, for my front end to pull the data, it will hit the API Gateway and request a set of reviews
 
@NikiC probably a good idea ... if the overhead is too much, we could do a sanity check on /Zend/tests (and maybe ext/opcache/tests) before/after the other builds ?
 
Sam
Which in its current state, is exactly the same as me just make a curl request using the same address that the front end uses
 
10:12 AM
@Sam "a set", sure, but presumably that's like 10 or something
Have a limit on the number of records that are returned at once/the request frequency etc
but I concede it's imperfect
I don't think that's a solvable problem though, nothing to do with the tech, just a pure logical problem
 
Sam
I guess I just need to be smart in how much is actually returning from the api calls
it sucks that I can't validate requests are coming from known sources. i.e. front end web app
 
If you expose protected data publicly, it's implicitly no longer protected
you can do damage limitation but it's never going to be a closed loop
ugh sorry my internet keeps going down
apparently it's 1997 again
which I wouldn't mind in many regards, but not this one
 
Sam
hahah
ah that sucks, I guess I just need to think of how I can limit it then
 
@JoeWatkins and the typed properties segfaults in your vm look like clang miscompile to me
 
@Sam again, this is a basic logical problem rather than a technology issue. The service is public - you haven't pre-authorized people to use it - which means that you have no established trust relationship with your users. If you expose data to an untrusted 3rd party, you can't really control what they do with it (and by "data" in this case I literally just mean the web server)
an HTTP request is just a blob of text, anything can generate that blob of text
if you get what I mean
not explained that very well
 
Sam
10:19 AM
yeh I do
 
I'm going to have to use php_time outside of ext/date @NikiC
 
@JoeWatkins I think I looked at that one before
 
@JoeWatkins it is already public though?
 
which means I gotta revert it in 7.2/7.3 or turn it into static inline in php_date.h
 
@JoeWatkins I don't think that one is related to php_time
It also failed previously
 
10:23 AM
ah this is the first time I saw it fail, so assumed
 
It's just that the time can change while the test is running
 
I mean, php_time() could also play into it, but there's also an issue independent of that
 
@DaveRandom we just added it, so could only export in 7.4+
no I think this is wrong:
			diff = difftime(expires, php_time(NULL));
			if (diff < 0) {
				diff = 0;
			}

			smart_str_appends(&buf, COOKIE_MAX_AGE);
			smart_str_append_long(&buf, (zend_long) diff);
(it uses time())
because expiry is set with (php user) time() which uses php_time, which uses gettimeofday, but the max age is calculated using (internal) time ... that's what's happening, isn't it ?
 
@JoeWatkins it's one of the things that's happening ^^
So yes, that one should be changed
Also, you can export new API symbols on stable versions
 
10:34 AM
really ?
 
it's not an ABI break, so why not?
 
I always thought we considered it an abi break ...
 
afaik as long as it's compatible (which new symbols always should be) it's fine
could be wrong though...
 
it was one of the reasons we couldn't merge phpdbg into 5.4, and I'm sure I've seen others avoiding doing that ...
 
what, you mean the rules are unclear? surely not :-P
 
10:36 AM
new symbols is okay
 
okay, cool
 
especially in the statically linked portion (which date is part of) there really can't be any problems with that
 
@Jimbo I'd maybe take a different path, at least for http requests. I'd generate an 'index.php' file for each http end point, that contains a lot of generated code that calls the appropriate factories + delegates to create the controller/handler required for that endpoint.
 
@JoeWatkins hm... we're definitely not ubsan clean ^^
 
:(
nobody ever checks anything ....
 
10:53 AM
FrankRailt – #78180
 
@JoeWatkins We're checking them now :)
 
DateInterval can no longer be comparable according to its public properties – #78181
 
^ there's a massive underestimation of what makes logical sense if ever I saw one
 
@DaveRandom It's funny how people try doing new DateInterval('PT3H') == new DateInterval('PT3H') and see "yah equals great" but nobody ever tries new DateInterval('PT5H') and sees that this is also true
 
oh actually @Derick I've been meaning to talk to you about this for a while, how practical would it be create something to "normalise" a dateinterval to a number of seconds, given a reference datetimeinterface object? I've wanted that a few times and you have to go all round the houses to do it, I was thinking something like DateInterval::getTotalSeconds(DateTimeInterface $refTime): int
@NikiC the whole thing is just vastly more complex than people give credit for... I would like a separate type for representing absolute timespans but I've never been able to come up with a clean way to do it because it's just too complicated
there's a difference between "interval" and "span", for one thing
 
11:11 AM
@DaveRandom What do you think about github.com/php/php-src/pull/4063?
 
oooh shiny, I will have a look in a bit, is there an RFC?
it needs really clearly defined and documented semantics, anything like that
I started work on operator overloads for $newTime = $refTime + $interval and $diff = $end - $start and stuff like that, fell down a proper rabbit hole and realised that some of this stuff is just fundamentally unsolvable in an unambiguous way
 
hello all users
 
no users here, bots only
 
Did you just call me a user?
 
I certainly feel used by you
 
11:18 AM
xD
Can anyone tell me a tutorial on how to get all the results of an editable table to insert into the database?
or one exemple...
I'm trying to make a table for stock entry
 
What do you mean by "editable table"?
(I have a suspicion you are about to get pointed towards the JS room btw)
 
o/
 
can i place a link for exemple?
 
it's likely that the majority of the work is front-end, from a PHP perspective you are just going to be accepting a form submission and putting the data in a DB, nothing complicated there
sure
 
but i whant to submit all entrys from the table
and not by row
 
11:25 AM
OK, so you just need to wrap the whole table in a <form> and have the <input>s with names like <input name="table[0][1]" where 0 is a row index and 1 is a column index
effectively coordinates
 
@DaveRandom I keep forgetting that the "table[0][1]" syntax is possible....I r gud programmer.
 
PHP will automatically decode those names so you can access them like $_POST['table'][0][1]
 
and how i keep track of the number of entrys?
 
that you need to do with JS, but basically just with a counter
 
humm
Then in your opinion if I put the table in the form posting to an insert file in bd, then I just have to access it using "table [0] [1]" to get the values?
 
11:31 AM
 
@NoobDEV-GBL yes, but don't use spaces, that will break it...
in the field names, anyway
 
@DaveRandom and if user needs more rows to make entry of mor products?
 
then you need to do that with JS, and have JS generate coordinate refs which make sense
but there must be stuff which can do that
JS is a framework for building frameworks
 
humm ok so e need to ask in js room for help on that xD
 
@Gordon love you 3000 :P <3
 
11:53 AM
@DaveRandom i made one simple exemple, can you see?
@DaveRandom here is the exemple jsfiddle.net/dg2npbv0
 
@NikiC this bug here bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=78106 might be realted to my customers problem. they are on 7.0.33 though, is the problem that old? the issue seems to mention using "opcache.enable", 0 in php requests. but the original reporter said he didn't even do that. Is this maybe also related to opcache_resets()?
 
12:09 PM
/**
 * If no reason phrase is specified, implementations MAY choose to default
 * to the RFC 7231 or IANA recommended reason phrase for the response's
 * status code.

public function withStatus($code, $reasonPhrase = '');
So, the reasonphrase is optional, except when it's not.
 
12:19 PM
@beberlei if they're on 7.0.33 it's not related
This was a very recent regression
 
damnit :)
@NikiC thank you
 
12:43 PM
hello guys!
i'm facing a problem in php where i have a form that is getting the raw values from depending on "id" of the raw
all form values areworking as expected , but only the "select class" is not
the "select class" is showing always the first value in the option list
this is the select class code written in the code
<select class="form-control" name="Vendor">
<option <?php echo $Vendor === "Juniper"? "selected" : ""; ?> >Juniper</option>
<option <?php echo $Vendor === "Fortinet"? "selected" : ""; ?> >Fortinet</option>
<option <?php echo $Vendor === "Forcepoint"? "selected" : ""; ?> >Forcepoint</option>
<option <?php echo $Vendor === "F5-Networks"? "selected" : ""; ?> >F5-Networks</option>
output always showing "juniper" value because it is the first option , instead of showing the correct value in the raw
 
parens
 
@Bbishara use like <?php echo $Vendor === "Juniper"? "selected='' " : ""; ?>
 
still not working :(
 
eating chicken, fingers sticky ...
 
^__^
 
1:01 PM
@NoobDEV-GBL sorry I had real work to do :-P
give me 10 mins or so
 
still not working
 
then Vendor is not set, you can see from the 3v4l code that the correct markup is generated when Vendor is set ...
also, I'm out, it's too hot to be inside ...
 
@JoeWatkins send some heat this way please.
 
user11510746
1:18 PM
Hi all, I have a question about SASS and WordPress - stackoverflow.com/questions/56668603/…
 
> asked 4 mins ago
You'll need to debug this on your computer. No one will be able to help you until you can describe the cause of the problem......and once you know the cause of the problem, you won't need anyone else's help.
 
user11510746
Talking to me?
 
1:43 PM
yes.
 
user11510746
How much more information do I have to provide lol, if you don't have an input just don't answer.
 
2:00 PM
@Sema en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect you're blaming me when I point out you're looking in the wrong place.
 
Segmentation Fault in zend_execute.c:2572 – #78182
 
3v4l.org/deM4K Why does that give 'y'? :-)
 
@Duikboot the smiley face confuses me. Do you really want an answer?
 
 
I found out change the getString() method from private to public changes the answer.
I 'really' want answer on the Q: what is going in the BG that it changes the way it calls the function in X or Y because I change it to private/public?
I know ... A private property or method can't be accessed by a subclass of the class .. But... how does recognizes it?
 
2:49 PM
@cmb Should gd enforce somehow that alpha only goes up to 127?
I'm getting a ubsan failure due to negative shift and could easily suppress it, but as comments say that alpha only goes up to 127 anyway, I'm wondering if it shouldn't be enforced as well?
 
cmb
3:09 PM
@NikiC, I think alpha<=127 should generally be enforced. Which code is it exactly?
 
Large alpha occurs in ext/gd/tests/imagecolorallocate_variation5.phpt
 
cmb
@NikiC, thanks! imagecolorallocate() is suppossed to pass alpha==0. From looking at the test, this is likely an issue with r,g,b (where negative values are passed). Generally, we should really check for valid ranges after ZPP (I'd already started working on a patch for ext/gd; will finish that up ASAP.)
 
3:37 PM
@NikiC Thanks for looking into these. If we had the manpower it would be so nice if ubsan + memcheck + coverity were clean...
 
3:53 PM
finfo_file shows wrong mime-type for .tga file – #78183
 
@LeviMorrison I hope we can be ubsan clean by tomorrow
 
Fatal error caused after ini_set opcache.enabled to 0 and require_once – #78184
 
4:18 PM
@NikiC what do you think about declarable exception behaviour ? I don't like the idea on it's own, and think we need the config setting, but having a declarable as the authoritative source might be nice ...
 
@JoeWatkins I don't think it makes any sense
Or at least I don't see a use case for it
 
I don't have a clear one, and it couldn't do anything that ini_set couldn't do ... and I'm not sure what is bad about an ini setting ... but it would be better to get a thumbs up from dmitry, right ?
I think the general idea is that a library author (say, some auth lib) should be able to control exception behaviour independent of ini ... but I'm not sure what is better about declare over allowing them to set exception behaviour, other than it's slightly more convenient, but since this is surely a minority of cases, I don't know if justified ...
 
Without directory-based declares that doesn't really make sense
And I think even then this is not something that a library should control
Unless the library does something very weird, it shouldn't care whether or not backtrace args are collected
 
yeah I don't find it super convincing either, just trying to flesh out the argument because dmitry didn't ...
 
4:43 PM
Do we have any data on how often 32 bit builds of PHP are used?
 
the only example I've heard anyone use is some web books/tablet like devices are still 32 bit ...
you can probably get data on the windows downloads of 32bit builds from weltling
 
cmb
The windows.php.net download counts may not be representative, since many are using WAMP/XAMPP distros. XAMPP only ships 64bit PHP for a few months.
 
5:39 PM
Heading to the DMV so my son can take his test to get his license today! imgur.com/a/PPuAAmT
 
5:59 PM
@LeviMorrison Don't think about supporting 32-bit arch or not, just count the number of developers you'll miss when leaving out 32-bit. From little kids to people who use second hand computers in other regions of the world, small embedded systems, etc.
 
@Code4R7 I am just curious, not proposing anything.
 
Me too.. if any data is available, I'd very much like to see it
 
@Code4R7 and how does supporting their use-case trade off against making the 64bit versions nicer for everyone else?
 
It seems to be very much memory related.. 32-bit is more for systems with about 2 GB RAM (like VM's?). Anyhow, it looks like MS is moving office towards 64-bit by default. New computers are often shipped with 8 GB RAM.
So, no data, all guesswork.
 
there will be fewer 32bit systems every release. If someone really wants to try out an old system he can still download a old version of php
which will probably supported by the old os versions package manager
 
6:16 PM
Yo!
Is there an equation to determine the ratio between input/output length during base conversion?
 
@DanLugg hey, still alive?
 
@Danack Apparently.
Either that or I'm a bot, I'm not sure. I might be self-aware, that I'm unsure about too.
 
@DanLugg my instinct is that it's bounded by one divided by the other...
 
@Danack I thought so too, but is it that simple?
 
base 4 to base 8 is going to take twice as many chars...same as base8 -> base 16....they'll be rounding errors for 'not quite fitting' things. But yeah?
 
6:21 PM
Base64 adds overhead of 1/3 to 8bit blobs though :-/
Oh, its 8bit to 6bit ... that makes sense.
 
> Each Base64 digit represents exactly 6 bits of data.
yeah..
 
So ratio = sourceBits / targetBits
What about irregular bases; base37?
 
Personally I'd love to see 32-bit fade out. Also it could help to attract more developers to the core PHP team. (If at all you'd want that)
 
it'll still hold true mostly, and it's only the top bits that make the difference to the exect length.
hex 0xa0 -> octal 01200 (I think, kind of tired), but 0x30 goes to 0300, so slightly less than twice the number of chars.
@DanLugg and the same applies for irregular bases, it's just that the math becomes harder.
 
Alrighty, I'll iterate on this until I get a sample that demonstrates a ceiling length well enough
 
6:30 PM
@DanLugg there's 3 cases to show. ceiling, minimum (which starts with a 1 in both bases), and the flipping point between the two.
Also, who's homework are you helping with?
 
lol, my own? Wrote an arbitrary base converter to generate string IDs from UUIDs for an external system ... but they're changing their ID constraints (from [0-9A-Z]{20} to [0-9A-Z\-\.]{24} or something)
So I just wanted to know offhand what the exact ratio of changing 128bits to baseN would be (and know it as they do stupid fucking shit their requirements evolve)
 
6:45 PM
varchar(255) all the things....
 
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