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12:38 AM
@Wes .....why rush it?
you could leave it for a few days to edit it.
 
Wes
because i am not going to
it is a small improvement, there is only so much time i intend to spend on it
 
 
3 hours later…
3:54 AM
@PeeHaa not sure if you're hipster enough yet, but I think sveltejs might strike home for you too :P
it's fucking fast, if you want to know.
 
@NikiC scheduled builds passed on both branches ... but this is ruined by this
 
\o
if timing is correct, then it would have to be the case that the time between these calls is 2 seconds:
$time = microtime(true) + 2;
  var_dump(time_sleep_until( (int)$time ));
or close enough to two seconds that the subsequent (int) cast is casting away the difference ...
this is infuriating ....
 
 
1 hour later…
5:29 AM
Good morning
 
6:17 AM
morning
 
6:45 AM
o/
 
0
Q: Changing size of bootstrap select pop-up on mobile devices

HosowuI have a bootstrap modal with a select input in it.I am trying to change select options size in mobile browsers.What css elements to modify for mobile browsers. I have tried to find out id of the element but i think you cannot inspect element a drop-down when it's open(correct me if i am wrong)....

 
Does anyone know if a shorter variant of the null coalescing operator has ever been discussed/proposed? I.e. the equivalent of foo($_GET['bar'] ?? null) without needing to specify the last null?
and if you say "just use @" I'll hit you.
 
What is the purpose to make even more short tags and variances? No more clean code?
 
Hello guys,need urgent help for question above.
 
@Hosowu just make your own version of select via html and js
you cant style the normal select/options very well
especially when you get such mobile selectors. But even in normal browsers they behave diffrent if youre trying to apply to much styling to the options.
 
7:47 AM
@user3655829 is that a reply to me?
 
The first answer yes
 
demeanor behavior toward others : outward manner
 
8:05 AM
@user3655829 how is an operator to give me this value if its set, otherwise null not "clean"?
 
its one more than ?? null at this point
 
huh
you're saying the mere existence of a new operator in the language is not clean, because it's another operator?
 
many things that do the same or things that do many different things are both signs of a badly designed language
 
morns
 
also, a symbolic language is often harder to learn, understand and use than a textual language
minimize symbols, and minimize the number of ways how to do the exact same
 
8:17 AM
i want to see ?? ??? (??? as the new null return) :D
then were going to proramm in question marks ????????????????????????
 
@Wietlol then why have any shortcut operators. Why have ?? when isset exists. why have ternary operator when if/else exists.
 
because PHP is a badly designed language
hides in bunker
 
Chinese Simplified Version is not the same with English Version – #78186
 
8:43 AM
Exponentiation operator gives incorrect result – #78187
 
syntaxerror through short operator here.
\o/
 
9:00 AM
o/
 
9:43 AM
Um, anyone tried building PHP with clang on linux? @LeviMorrison?
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lstdc++
 
le mornings
 
9:58 AM
variance is hard before coffee
 
Anyone know how to detect a negative zero without division?
and without checking bitpattern...
 
$tests = [
    -0.0,
    0,
    0.000000001,
    -0.000000001,
    NAN
];


foreach ($tests as $test) {
    var_dump(is_float($test) && (!($test < 0.0)) && (!($test > 0.0)) && (!is_nan($test))  );
}
> and without checking bitpattern
 
Visually inspect for the little - at the front? :-P
 
someone link to the sprintf implementation...?
 
10:13 AM
Turns out the best way to detect negative zero is to not bother. -fno-sanitize=float-divide-by-zero
Fucking language lawyer circlejerk going on at bugs.llvm.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19535
 
'maintainers' is the generic word to describe people who develop open source projects.
'users' is the generic word for people who use open source projects.

Is there a generic word for "companies that use open source projects" that doesn't refer to the individuals at those companies? i.e. not 'users'.
 
Morning, Room!
frugal company?
Nothing comes to mind. Maybe something like "open source supportive" "open source advocate"...
 
10:29 AM
@Danack OSS consumers? (assuming they don't contribute back)
 
@Stephen I'm trying to write something that puts the pressure to pay for open source on companies....although that word is accurate, consumers to me implies individuals.
 
Anyone have something to add to wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecations_php_7_4?
 
I see. maybe just be specific? "private companies that consume open source software". I think the word consume ties in to the cost part, you just need to link it inexplicably to an organisation rather than a person
 
> wiki.php.net took too long to respond.
 
I had to reload it a couple times. It's working now.
 
10:33 AM
am I missing something, or there's no programatic way to identify if a traversable is actually rewindable, right?
 
haha
 
kind of lacks pith.
 
Ah
Freeloaders
 
what kind of payment are you hoping to encourage? ongoing (i.e. subscription) or one-off donations? or support contracts?
"Info for Businesses" is short and sweet?
 
10:37 AM
one-off payments first, invoices next, recurring payments eventually, never support contracts.
@Stephen yes......though it kind of lacks the indication that links them 'using open source'.
 
right.. this is for a site about the software itself, so their staff may be there to download/whatever, and wouldn't necessarily know the context
then again that might help make them click on it. Maybe "Enterprise Options"
 
Open Source Contribution
 
@kelunik responding here for now. we cannot cover the case you mentioned because we can't guess how the arrays is being used. that could be a map also
 
@StatikStasis .... I would assume that means contributing code
 
Hello?
 
10:39 AM
yeah...
Open Source Aid
 
what we can do is resetting the auto increment on newly created arrays, at least there
 
"Support this Project" ?
doesn't guilt them much though
 
Open Source Endowment
^That's used when giving back to an institution... could be good?
 
@WesAtWork How is using as a map related to auto-increment.
 
"Learn how to support the Open Source your company uses with this one weird trick"
 
10:41 AM
@Stephen I'll be announcing and publishing the project in a few days....you'll be able to see the context then. The actual payment pages will be hosted on the actual projects site. Most people won't be looking at this site, except for those people who might want to prosecute me for fraud.....
 
Sponsor Open Source
 
Open Source Backer
 
> The is_writeable() function is an alias of is_writable(). is_writeable() is notorious in the sense that it has a spelling mistake in its name and since the introduction of is_writable() been considered soft deprecated.
 
@kelunik i am not sure. if an array is used as map and array at the same time, are we sure that unsetting a value in the map doesn't do something weird to integer indexes?
 
10:43 AM
@NikiC I think you mixed the misspelling with the correctly spelt one there.
 
Open Source Philanthropy... or just something something donate
 
anyway, that's out of scope for my rfc, which just makes sure that foreign scopes don't get weird auto increments. nikic might want to do what you are suggesting, though chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/46548049#46548049 check here
 
@WesAtWork It won't do anything to existing indexes, just pushes without any key.
 
i am not against that though, i mean it would be great if unset cleaned the holes... but if i understand correctly it's not doable for performance
 
@Danack disclaimer: most of that is not from me but from kalle. I don't see the error though? is_writable is correct, is_writeable is incorrect, right?
 
10:51 AM
@NikiC British/American spellings.
...
probably also makes a difference how often someone uses the word 'writ' in their vocabulary.
 
cmb
I think we should follow American spelling. Otherwise we could consider to introduce aliases for imagecolorallocate() etc. as well.
 
ok so failing a programatic solution, does anyone have a resource (either human language or source code) that identifies the built-in PHP traversables that are not rewindable?
@cmb an American client once asked me to "de-Queenify" a passage of text in an app. I wondered what the heck he meant to start with, then I realised he just wanted me to spell some words incorrectly :P
5
 
@cmb I don't care strongly, but this isn't about adding ones, but allowing one that is going to be in a non-trivial number of code-bases to continue to exist or not.
 
In what english do you guys code you applications? Just wondered a few days ago
we do use both :XXX .___.
 
cmb
@Danack, I don't care strongly, either. Removing that from the RFC is fine for me; keeping it for voting is fine for me as well.
 
11:01 AM
@Danack Any reference on that?
 
@NikiC can't find a good one. en.wiktionary.org/wiki/writeable is listed as a word, but it seems most dictionaries don't list adjectives.
do you know how to exclude a file name from github search results?
as:
> Test is_writable() and its alias is_writeable() function: error conditions
makes looking for actual uses hard.
 
11:25 AM
@Danack nope ... github search is really bad with duplicate files :(
practically useless
 
11:51 AM
writeable is not a word
 
Adjective: writeable
  1. Alternative spelling of writable...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
sure, it's used as a word, but it is definitely not a word, the word is writable ... it's not a word in the same way as irregardless is not a word, nevertheless people use it, and if your job is to be a dictionary, then you better define what it means ...
in proper English it's not a word ...
OED ^
they consider it a misspelling, not an alternative/non-standard word (like they consider irregardless), but wrong ...
 
anyway, how y'all folks doin?
 
just waiting for the week to end
 
hmm... you know, you could do a lot of stuff before that happens
for example, you could write me a switch instruction
 
12:07 PM
too hot, can only stay cool in pool, or with aircon (car or home), can't turn on aircon at home because it will make computer shutdown, can't go out in car to cool down because working, and can't go in pool because wasps everywhere until dark ... exhausted, all the time ...
 
where u live?
 
spain
 
and how warm is it there rn?
 
~40 degrees by 3pm some days, average about 35~, but holding ~98% humidity for couple of weeks now, air actually feels heavy to breathe, almost thick to walk through even ...
noteworthy, this is only my second summer in Spain, so I'm not very used to this yet ...
 
u are on holiday?
 
12:11 PM
no, live here now ...
 
funny enough, it aint summer yet
on a side note, my language works now
from source code to executing the generated .exe
\o/
 
that depends how you define summer, the climate in the south where I am is sub-tropical, so for 10 months of the year, I experience weather that I would only have experienced at the height of summer in the uk - where I was born ... it's basically summer most the year round ...
so, what's next ?
 
todo:
- methods
- classes
- type safety on expressions
- inheritance
- type arguments
- function overloads
- extension functions
- function lazy parsing
- star imports
- default imports
- program metadata
- libraries
- annotation processing
- contract classes
- compound types
- type boundaries (union types)
- class initializers
- class constructors
- numbers
- booleans
- characters
- null characters in strings
- file-io
- tcp-http
- lazy
- async
- traits
- multithreading using fibers
slowly removing items from this list
currently working on generating virtual tables and registring methods
want a switch case on that
 
that's a long list
 
it sure is
it is also not necessarily in order
 
12:19 PM
one or more of us has implemented or has tried to implement almost everything on that list for php ...
 
nor exhaustive
wut?
 
Just found that on a customer's computer
 
doesnt PHP have most of what is on that list anyway?
 
@Wietlol r11 has been/is the incubator for lots of rfcs/php projects ...
 
r11?
 
12:21 PM
Also we have beer
 
room11, here
 
https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/11/php
 
now that I think of it... php does not have most of that list
 
It has a lot of it
not all necessarily as core language support/actually released yet
 
or refused at rfc stage in the case of unions
or n/a in the case of all the things it has, like binary compatible strings, and all that simple stuff ...
 
12:22 PM
it doesnt have fibers, traits, (maybe async), lazy, type boundaries, compound types, contract classes, extension functions
 
I'm sure there was a fiber thing
is it a pecl ext?
 
there is, it has traits (of a sort, they can't implement interfaces, but they are what we call traits)
 
what do php traits do?
 
extension functions are impossible without AOT compilation and strong typing
ditto a lot of type related stuff
 
@JoeWatkins I ran into some snags with ubsan on macos
 
12:24 PM
@Wietlol copy-paste units for the compiler, sort of partial classes, although that's probably the wrong words ... so we call them traits ...
 
well not necessarily AOT but much of it doesn't play nice with the "autoload" paradigm
 
I really really hate macos
 
@NikiC I'm watching ...
 
it looks like traits are what I call module classes
 
Either I'm misunderstanding something or macos loves giving back unaligned pointers from libc/syscalls
 
12:25 PM
Seems a shame to uninstall Yahoo Messenger, like intentionally killing the last of a species
 
@JoeWatkins do you know of any other trait classes?
the traits I mean, I copied from Groovy
it is also called horizontal inheritance
or a fancy version of decorators
 
In PHP terms, traits are sort of the opposite of an interface. An interface is a type without an implementation, a trait is an implementation without a type
(I don't like them very much, ftr)
 
@NikiC that totally sounds like a thing it would do ... lo and behold the first result for "macos libc unaligned" brings up a stackoverflow post where someone is confused by apparent alignment of return from some network syscall
 
this is a basic example of traits how I designed them
 
12:33 PM
now they need one for lions as well
majestic green flaming lions that is
 
@NikiC maybe we should just run ubsan in a sane place, and other sanitizers, there's not much point fighting with the strangeness of mac on this is there ? maybe they could be run weekly on a different pipeline, so long as they are run (and green) before each release is tagged, it's all good ... and if we can go green on ubuntu first, then we can see what noise is caused by mac strangeness and maybe attempt to fix it ...
but it's not a good yardstick ...
there's much more value in a green sanitized build on ubuntu than on mac, and it's probably a bit easier to achieve right now ...
 
@JoeWatkins I wanted to go for macos because clang has a stricter sanitizer than gcc
 
we can't just install clang ?
 
we can but ... well try it
I wanted to test with clang locally but some configure stuff failed
Something something libstdc++ linking
 
I get clang-7 by default, is that a problem ?
 
12:38 PM
That's what I used as well
 
ok, I'll have a go at a build on nevis
 
Also we have some header detection logic that is gcc specific, because -dumpmachine returns a different result for clang
 
I had that issue too, but on windows
 
That's why for example gmp autodetection doesn't work
 
google said I had to install visual studio
but LLVM's clang download/install worked without vs tho
 
12:39 PM
We should probably fix that, but I'm not sure what the right way to get the target-specific include path is
and unfortunately gmp has no pkgconfig :(
 
okay well a disable all build is fine with clang, I guess the problem comes with compiling with intl, so trying that ...
krakjoe@nevis:/opt/src/php-src$ sapi/cli/php -m
[PHP Modules]
Core
date
hash
intl
pcre
Reflection
SPL
standard

[Zend Modules]
looks fine ...
 
what's the configure line?
 
krakjoe@nevis:/opt/src/php-src$ cat config.nice
#! /bin/sh
#
# Created by configure

CFLAGS='-fsanitize=undefined' \
LDFLAGS='-fsanitize=undefined' \
CC='clang' \
'./configure' \
'--disable-all' \
'--enable-opcache' \
'--enable-debug' \
'--enable-phpdbg' \
'--enable-intl' \
"$@"
you can play with it, I'm not using the build ... but it seems to work and generates many errors when I just do sapi/cli/php -m
-j32 rebuilds on nevis are quite fast ...
 
if you enable pcntl?
fork detection in pcntl is the first failure for me
 
[PHP Modules]
Core
date
hash
intl
pcntl
pcre
Reflection
SPL
standard

[Zend Modules]
 
12:48 PM
hm....
 
by any chance, had you tried to enable i386 in the environment that is failing to build now ?
because that super messed up everything for me, I had to manually remove a tonne of stuff to fix it, then remove the architecture ...
 
cmb
@Wietlol, yep, compiling on Windows with clang (without VS) should work, but it's barely tested.
Actually, clang support is flagged as experimental, see https://wiki.php.net/internals/windows/stepbystepbuild_sdk_2
 
Wes
1:01 PM
fastest way to copy an array such that it resets the next auto increment value? :B
 
char *h_addr;
memcpy(&h_addr, &hp->h_addr_list[0], sizeof(char *));
@JoeWatkins ^-- I'm blind, why does that "always overflow the destination buffer"?
 
I got nothin
/me still hasn't stopped switching between reading that and this
(gdb) ptype struct hostent
type = struct hostent {
    char *h_name;
    char **h_aliases;
    int h_addrtype;
    int h_length;
    char **h_addr_list;
}
it doesn't matter how many times I look at it, it's not changing, neither of them are changing ...
 
Wes
1:17 PM
perhaps unsurprisingly, it seems to be array_slice($a, 0)
 
the memcpy is totally right, and it doesn't really matter what the type is, but I wanted the full picture ... it doesn't really help ...
 
@JoeWatkins waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait
 
it has to be a false positive, doesn't it ?
 
I remember something
 
1:20 PM
# define	h_addr	h_addr_list[0] /* Address, for backward compatibility.*/
 
oh
how annoying
 
That means I actually declare char *h_addrlist[0]
 
yep
TILBBTWHF
today I learned, but by tomorrow will have forgotten ...
 
Wes
i am getting keys preserved by array_slice even if preserve keys is false. wat
 
@JoeWatkins Today's TILBBTWHF moments are next year's TILs.
 
Wes
1:24 PM
> String keys are always preserved, regardless of this parameter nvm
 
1:40 PM
/me waves
 
/me waves back
 
Is there a tool for testing email (if email was sent, and the content of the mail) right now am using sendgrid but their sandbox mode is no help
 
@Ghostff check out mailtrap.io
 
I test mails in the development process via behat and webmailer/imap
it just works and is very simple
 
@JoeWatkins okay, so going that memcpy actually worked...
 
1:49 PM
progress is progress, even when painful ...
 
Make unpack return a 0 indexed array instead of a 1 indexed array – #78188
 
if only that were viable...
 
Im really just curious is all, How many of yall know how to code AND rebuild an engine, or lawnmower etc, diagnose common ailments with your car and climb a ladder with a chainsaw?
albeit chainsaws and ladders dont mix
Im fluent in all of it
 
@Stuart I do
 
+1
 
2:00 PM
and chainsaws and ladders definitely do mix all the time.
 
@NikiC microsoft just called, 15 is the limit
 
at least, when put against a house. They mix less so when against a tree
 
@JoeWatkins good enough :)
 
Nah, Ive tried in every way possible and you almost always get hit in the face / head by falling limb
 
yeah, it's doing alright now
 
2:01 PM
or knocked off the ladder
 
I saw a guy cut himself out of a tree once (I did a bit of work for a tree surgeon many years ago), fell 60ft with a pruning saw attached to his belt, landed on his tailbone in the middle of the lawn, got up an walked away with bruises and minor spinal compression
 
and when you try to jump, ladders provide a horrible base
 
@Stuart I do all of my own vehicle work except for timing belts and I fell trees on the side.
 
OMG Dave
 
I won't climb a ladder, but all of the rest of it I can do, as well as carpentry, welding, painting, and I'm qualified to work as a head chef in the UK ..
 
2:02 PM
sweet
 
welding is something I want to learn, but never tried
 
@Stuart my dad is one of these old it guys working at the beginning. He told me all i need to know about heaters electrics water pipes garden work etc. We never hired somebody for everything.
 
I also do a lot of carpentry. Used to build circular and elliptical staircases years ago.
 
I suck at carpentry
but Timing belts are gravy
 
I know the basic principles of how internal combustion works, dismantled 2 strokes a few times, but honestly I cba with it. Modern cars are basically a computer, a computer which I don't understand, I'd rather just pay someone who won't screw it up
ditto painting and decorating
 
2:03 PM
I learn how to do a lot of different things because I'm cheap.
 
I could, but I can't be bothered
 
@Stuart I don't have the necessary equipment to get the timing in sync.
 
Motors were only a topic with scooter tuning.
 
Painting is just NOT fun
 
yup, same with plumbing, wallpapering... all stuff I could do but it's totally worth the money to not have the hassle
 
2:04 PM
The only thing you need for timing is eyes and diagram with the exception of Ford Triton engines
 
sanded and polished a floor once, never again
 
and a few rarities
 
oh it is, I see in a fresh coat of paint the same ascetically pleasing thing I see in a finely finished piece of wood
 
Some Mercedes I think
 
it's just not as nice to touch as the wood ...
 
2:05 PM
oh, matron
 
This week Im rebuilding my CR250's engine
I do everything myself
 
what is CR250?
 
from the septic tank up
 
it's a motorbike
 
oh
 
2:06 PM
More specifically 2002 Honda CR250R
 
this week I am putting a lot of effort into not snapping at people giving me crap over the phone. anything else is a bonus.
 
dont let the 02 scare you
 
that is almost what I expected /s
 
Its a 2020
now
 
@JoeWatkins My wife loves to touch my wood.
 
2:07 PM
I've heard that
 
been in rebuild mode 1+ year
 
I used to do all car/bike stuff myself, but I'm over getting my hands dirty, and my bike is too valuable for me to fuck it up ...
 
HAHAHA
What kind of bike?
 
triumph sprint gt 1050
 
2:08 PM
Also youd be surprised... The factory techs that service it at your local motorcycle dealer are not geniuses
or the best
far from it
 
I love it, it goes to triumph ...
 
@Stuart I have been wanting to buy a 250 dirtbike of my own. I live in SC but have a few family members in NC we like to ride bikes with in the mountains every once in a while. I am wanting one of my own soon.
 
@JoeWatkins didn't realise they still existed, I associate that with oooooold things (like British Leyland)
I know almost nothing about bikes because I am a wuss and proud of it
 
Yea but you know even the Trimph dealer "Techs" are not what most people think. The public just isnt aware of how much they F up that gets swept under the rug
Id much rather work on it myself
 
it's a proper British, but very modern, extremely fast and loud machine ... easily my favourite vehicle I ever owned ...
 
2:09 PM
I know these things, Ive worked in dealerships
 
The older I get, the more I like not being solely responsible for breaking stuff
 
Sweet
 
"Stealership"
 
Yes
I feel ya Dave... just not me
Off to polish the cases on my CR250
Yall take care
 
php is a shit, change my mind...
 
2:12 PM
We agree.
 
@DaveRandom yeah that, I'd rather just give over the cash and not worry about it ... I spent so many summers with oil all over my hands, totally over it ... that said, if someone presented me with a really great project, an old porsche/mini or anything with actual character, I'd get stuck in and love it, but for vehicles I actually need to use, too much hassle ...
 
@CodeSculptor No, I don't think I will.
:P
 
@CodeSculptor it is but there is nothing better than php out there
and php gets better every year
 
Zid
Hi,
Don't have enough hands-on on web dev. The query string I read before was like ?key1=value1&key2=value2

what kind of query string is this??
?filters[business_date]=2019-06-18&filters[branch_hid]=_654564d34
I didn't understand filters[business_date]=
 
@Zid it's commonly interpreted as an array
 
Zid
2:22 PM
Thanks.
Array would be filter[0,1,2,3]. Is it more like a map,dictionary,json?
 
@Zid yes, it's a map
 
Zid
I c. Thanks for clearing it. I'm doing a web api task all of sudden after years of separation when I initially worked for 5-6 months.
 
in PHP the word "array" tends to mean PHP arrays, which can be used as an array, map, stack, queue... they are a bit of a kitchen sink concept
@Zid parse_str() and http_build_query() are your friend. parse_str() has some undesirable edge-case behaviour though
 
@DaveRandom actually i like the array concept of php most :X Its not clean but i miss it everywhere else...
 
2:28 PM
sure, it wasn't necessarily a criticism... I have mixed feelings about it, sometimes I would like something that's more job-specific
but it's not obvious to non-PHP people, they see the word "array" and it doesn't necessarily mean what they might think
the only actual problem there is naming I guess :-P
 
2:43 PM
file cache strips last character of uname hash – #78189
 
2:57 PM
@DaveRandom I agree. I very much like the native array structure … Except for some edge cases and something like SplFixedArray has … overhead
 
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