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12:18 AM
We are now getting on for the 11th hour of indexing hhvm...
 
@DaveRandom I know certain people want HHVM but
I've personally given up on it.
You can't even compile it in a reasonable amount of type on a typical dev laptop.
Until they fix some build-time issues I won't touch it again.
 
but HHVM is used by facebook and everything that comes from facebook is made from bunnies rainbows and happiness
 
I'll let it run until I get into work tomorrow, if it's not finished by then I will kill it
once this initial index is done it's done, moving forward it will be much faster because it only has to reindex changed files
I can copy the indexes to the other box as well so we won't have to go through this twice
 
any indication of how far along it is?
 
no clue
ftr also this is partially my fault because I forgot to exclude tests
same goes for php-src
That may or may not prove annoying when you are searching for stuff, we shall see
if it does I will tweak it to ignore the tests, although first time I tried to do that it didn't work but that was the older version of opengrok
 
12:32 AM
 
12:48 AM
Why did I read "unsupportable" there?
 
Incoming bot spam, sorry in advance
 
fail
 
so close
 
blame jay
 
y u use single quotes???
 
12:52 AM
10 messages moved to Trash
 
!!lxr zval
 
[ /Zend/zend_types.h#84 ] typedef struct _zval_struct zval;
 
!!lxr-5.6 zval
 
[ /Zend/zend_types.h#55 ] typedef struct _zval_struct zval;
 
!!lxr-7.1 zval
 
12:52 AM
[ /Zend/zend_types.h#84 ] typedef struct _zval_struct zval;
 
sexilicious
 
using the json api now or still scraping html?
 
Still scraping HTML but I just redesigned the whole architecture of the plugin so making it use the JSON should be simples
 
noice
 
It's now several classes in one file but you can't have everything
 
12:57 AM
sounds like time to break stuff out to a lib
 
Well the plan is that in the not too distant future we will be able to put plugins into their own repos
since the actual logic that's wrapped up in the plugin is pretty specialised to our use case in Jeeves, I'd rather wait for that
Some of it may be generic enough I guess
but a significant amount isn't, anyway
 
I am creating a deposit system in HTML, where I have a number input with the ID 'value' and I need to pass this ID into some PHP code as an int, so that the user can select the deposit amount. Any ideas?
 
woah opengrok added code folding
 
1:13 AM
Yeah I know how to do that, however I would prefer if it could be done on the same page
Without sending a post req
 
Well you can't pass data to PHP without sending some kind of HTTP request, either by navigating away from the page somehow or with ajax
PHP is on the server, it doesn't know what is happening in the browser unless you tell it, and the way you tell it is by sending an HTTP request
 
Alright guess I'll have to do that hmm
You know any HTML?
I'm essentially trying to create a deposit system where the user can choose from a list of payment gateways and be redirected to the payment gateway's payment page with one button.
 

JavaScript

Topic: Anything JavaScript, ECMAScript including Node, React, ...
that's a mostly-JS job, probably
/me sleeps
 
ah aight, thanks for the help and gn
 
2:11 AM
Good evening!
 
Yet another regular expression based routing framework posted to Reddit: JustRoute
 
mrning
 
2:27 AM
@LeviMorrison no tests, gpl v3, router copied to example folder, example uses require_once '/JustRoute.php'; (wut), code is a mess, no composer package... looks like someone learning php wanted to make something to see if they could rather than anything that should be put out for others to use
 
2:42 AM
Good evening!
 
mornin'
 
 
2 hours later…
5:10 AM
!!rfcs
 
morning
 
o/
 
5:21 AM
@tereško oh wow .. great advises .. thank you so much!
 
morning
o/
 
\o
 
6:11 AM
o/
 
posted on February 15, 2017

New Cyanide and Happiness Comic

 
6:24 AM
mornin
 
and PSA: FFX and X2 HD Remastered bundle 50% off on Steam today
 
since the steam winter sales I try to stay away from the store
 
FFT or GTFO
 
don't tempt me
 
6:27 AM
my windows is still broken so I can mostly avoid buying stuff
 
I should break mine then ^^
 
also GTA V and Mafia III are 50% off
 
I didn't think that would be possible since I have very little time to play in a week but I actually had an overdose of video game recently so I am not tempted to check the store again for a time
fallout 4 killed my nights
 
windows :)
 
6:50 AM
hi guys
 
hey
 
hi guys
how to handle this php fatal error? 3v4l.org/s6VpA
I used try catch as well but its not working
 
you declared method getName and called getFirstName
 
I just wanted to capture if any undefined method is there in class
 
oh and don't use php5
 
6:59 AM
} catch(Error $ex) {
generally we use } catch(Exception $ex) {
 
there's a new exception hierarchy in php7
 
no but i am using php 5.5.9
 
yeah, I guess that ... don't use php5
 
how can I server is already configured with php 5.5.9 and we cannot make changes in that
:(
 
you can, and must ... php5 is not maintained anymore
 
7:01 AM
ohh
can you give me that where its officially mentioned that its not maintain any more because I want to convince my senior
 
thanks
 
morning Joe,Gordon
 
o/
 
7:15 AM
@JoeWatkins, I want to get into core php dev at some point. I know a bit of "C" , know what pointers are , etc. but not that great.. what should I be learning ? - Thanks !
 
7:38 AM
moin
 
Morning
 
@JoeWatkins can you send a letter to my workplace saying that using php 5 is definitely dangerous?
@PaulCrovella for fucks sake, I'll just launch my browser in a VM if it goes like this…
@JoeWatkins What's the difference between an Error and an Exception ?
 
@Trucy cheap burner chromebooks. can't be too careful.
 
@PaulCrovella be sure you destroy them afterwards
 
Sometimes I hate my life. I pretty much have a cart blanche for PHP conferences for my team. We are located in the Netherlands. If the best PHP conference was located in Barcelona or Madrid or whatever, it would have been fine to go there.. but noooo.. the most decent one is in freakin' Amsterdam. I can't even find excuses to pick another one instead ><
 
7:47 AM
@DamienOvereem At least you can go to conferences :(
 
It should be a priority for most teams imho. Atleast bi-yearly. The effect is not as direct as most people would think, so it can be a hard-sell to managers. But the true effect is that it opens the minds of developers. Maybe they wont even use any techniques they saw at the conference, but at the least they will know and remember that there are always several different approaches for any situation.
In my own team there is a very clear result to those conferences. The weeks after visiting one I see a huge increase in new ideas and concepts. Some not even remotely related to any visited talks.
 
agree. when I started going to confs it took me to a whole new level. it helped me grow as a dev. the entire social aspect of coding is not to be underestimated.
 
@DamienOvereem that is valid if the goal of the managers is to keep the developers at a good level
I get laughed at when I speak about PHP 7, ZF3 or Angular 2 (using PHP 5, ZF1 and angular 1 here, because "we've always done so"™)
 
Well yes. There is that odd bit of reality where managers of dev teams are like carpenters using hammers to level stuff out and using their best chisels to pry out nails.
 
the world is getting worse day by day
 
7:55 AM
@Vamsi this then this and reading php-src code
 
@Trucy do you know the story about the monkeys and the bananas and the water spraying? tell it to anyone who tells you "we've been always doing it this way"
 
I don't know that story, but I'm making one up anyway.
 
@Gordon That sounds like a good idea, but they won't listen as "it's just a metaphor"
 
I must say though Trucy. The way you sell your technical necessities is also extremely important. If you want to implement stuff like PHP7, ZF3 or Angular 2.. be sure to translate the time and effort it requires to implement those things to business goals. Goals can be: employee happyness, higher project throughput after completion etc etc.
 
@Trucy errors were introduced because we converted what were fatal errors in 5 to exceptions in 7, and we didn't want catch all blocks catch(Exception $ex) written for php 5 code to catch those exceptions ... so an Error is an exception, but is not related to Exception ... engine errors now extend Error (TypeError and so on)
 
7:57 AM
@DamienOvereem I tried to sell it, using a major argument: security
Didn't work
 
I see one mistake there: security usually isn't a major argument...
Yes, it should be.. but usually it isn't.
 
what ?
 
@DamienOvereem "reduce employee drug and alcohol dependence"
 
For most companies security becomes important the second things go to hell. Up until that time people hardly want to invest in it.
 
if they aren't going to listen to the whole php community and internals, they aren't going to listen to me whatever ...
 
7:58 AM
Thats a good goal @PaulCrovella :)
 
go work somewhere good would be my advice ... this is not a battle you should have to fight ...
 
@DamienOvereem in France, it is. We have the CNIL (National Council for Informatics and Liberty, something like that), and they're literally anal about security of personal data. Thing is, I'll gather personal data, thus be subject to the law
And "it's faster, more maintanable, thus costing less" don't work
They like their habits
 
I agree with Joe there. If a company's "Why" does not match your own: find a new job. You will never be happy. If for you stuff like quality is important, and the business doesn't match that concept.. leave.
 
@JoeWatkins That's the plan. I'm working on side-projects at home, on recent technologies
@DamienOvereem I literally had an interview with an other company on Monday. Maybe the only other one IT company here. They're worse.
 
Personally I love the battle though :) Nothing is more satisfying then entering a messed up department and eventually get everything sorted from bottom-to-top. But it -is- a hard battle.. and if you don't enjoy it, you should not fight it.
 
8:01 AM
@PaulCrovella goes like this: 5 monkeys in a cage. ladder in the middle. on top a banana. monkeys like banana, so one climbs up to get it. once on the ladder, all monkeys get sprayed with water. monkeys dont like that. climb down again. after a while, they stop climbing the ladder. replace one monkey with a new one. monkey likes banana. climbs up ladder. other monkeys beat the shit out of him. monkey stops climbining ladder. repeat until all original monkeys are replaced.
 
"Quality is important! We're labelized and all!
– Do you do tests?
– Only for the labelizing stuff. Other way, it's too long and not important"
 
lol .. I pity you
 
@Trucy What does labelized even mean?
 
They also gave me a SQL test, which I apparently failed because I selected the wrong columns and use "right join" instead of "inner join"
 
@PaulCrovella result: whenever a monkey climbs the ladder, he gets beaten by the other, although none of these monkeys ever got sprayed with water. if you'd ask these monkeys why, they'd say: because we always did it like that
 
8:03 AM
@MadaraUchiha having a certification label
 
@Trucy Still no idea what that means.
 
for code that must conform to particular parts of EU data protection laws and such
 
505
Q: What technical reasons are there to have low maximum password lengths?

enderlandI have always wondered why so many websites have very firm restrictions on password length (exactly 8 characters, up to 8 characters, etc). These tend to be banks or other sites where I actually care about their security. I understand most people will pick short passwords like "password" and "12...

 
@Gordon what I'm gathering from this is if we all beat up the manager we get bananas
 
hahaha
 
8:04 AM
@MadaraUchiha I think it's a french thing. We have "Norme Française" labels (French Standard) about different things. Their products have "Norme Française" labels
 
@PaulCrovella Sarcasm at work, because punching people in the face is frowned upon by management.
@Trucy Ah, a "seal of quality" kind of thing
I see.
 
particularly if it's their faces
 
@JoeWatkins I don't think we have EU wide data protection laws. iirc they're working on it
I just hope they'll be as strict as CNIL
 
all members have until next year to comply, but will be found to violate regulation from last year ... so yes, the eu does have data protection laws
 
8:11 AM
yay!
ugh, they're using stock pictures
I don't know who is the "data controller" they're talking about, is it me, or my company?
 
your company
 
In France the developper who coded a shitty system can be sued by the data protection thingy
 
@Trucy The body which controls the data
Your company, in this case.
 
yeah, it's likely to be the company, but as I said, here I think I can be sued if I release a non-secure data collection platform
 
that could happen anywhere ... by proxy in a lot of cases ... entity 1 sues entity 2 for breach of contract or flouting the law, entity 2 sues employee for negligence ...
 
8:15 AM
oh, I see
 
meurning
 
Just like that guy with Uber who's wife found out he was cheating on her because of a bug with Uber.
 
I heard about that ... #bugsdestroylives
 
He logged in to her device once, ordered a ride, then logged out, then she continued to get notifications about his rides
 
although, he was an utter shit in the first place ... he destroyed his life really ...
 
8:17 AM
He's suing them for 45M euro
@JoeWatkins Of course
 
he'll probably win too
 
That doesn't change the fact that he's in the right here.
Their bug caused an invasion of his privacy.
He's a shitbag, sure. But a rightly wronged shitbag.
I can't believe I managed to pull that "rightly wronged" off.
 
(last time I bother you with this, I'll probably put it in workplace.SE) So what should I do? I told them that ZF1/PHP5 is unsecure, but shrugged. I didn't told them about data protection law. So if I release my application, my company could get sued and then they could sue me because I didn't secured their application enough, but only because they didn't want me to. What should I do?
 
pats self on back
@Trucy How much do you like your company?
 
@MadaraUchiha I don't
I just don't mind working here because I like the guy I work with and other coworkers are generally cool
 
8:19 AM
The "I want to stay on good terms" is "Suck it up, hope for the best", you're in the right here, I don't think your company would sue you in that case, especially if you have mail chains proving that you tried.
The "IDGAF" is to show them the law and the dangers, and get it in writing that they won't sue you if something goes wrong.
In all likelihood though, you aren't going to get sued either way.
 
@Trucy seriously, work somewhere else ... be extremely loud about your intention to work somewhere else and take as many of your colleagues as you can with you ... give them the notice you are required too, and make it obvious that you are leaving because of their extremely harmful practices ... that's all you can do, if swaying minds already failed ...
 
@JoeWatkins That's not the wise thing to do.
 
how much more miserable could you be ?
 
The wise thing to do is have another place already set and ready, before doing that.
 
@MadaraUchiha I'll do that. Send mails, BCC'd to my personal mailbox so I'm sure to keep a trace maybe
 
8:22 AM
oh yeah, obviously
 
@JoeWatkins Err, dunno if it's a good idea
I mean, the whole being loud thing
 
@Trucy I wouldn't be loud.
Staying in good terms is always preferable to leaving and shutting the door
 
@Trucy it is your last chance to sway minds ...
 
(btw, I'm still in trial period)
 
8:23 AM
But I would look for an alternative, and as I leave, I would grab the CTO/whomever to a conversation and explain exactly why I'm leaving.
 
@JoeWatkins being loud is the worst thing you can do to sway minds. eg: SJW.
 
@MadaraUchiha or you can just leave without burning bridges
 
@MadaraUchiha good idea, I think I'll do that
 
@Gordon Right, that's what I meant.
I wasn't trying to imply you should stay in the company, just stay in good terms.
 
you don't need bridges to a bad place ... burn the fuckers, if they've made you miserable and wasted several months/years of your professional life, you owe them nothing, and won't be going back whatever
 
8:24 AM
@JoeWatkins vOv What benefit will you be getting from burning the bridge?
Aside from a short-lived satisfaction?
Leaving it open gives you the opportunity to come back when administration changes, or keep in touch with other like-minded employees
 
what benefit do you get from being dishonest about your reasons for leaving ?? you're going to have to tell someone why you are going, you might as well tell everyone, then everyone starts thinking about it, and maybe some management type decides to act
 
@JoeWatkins I never said be dishonest about your reasons for leaving.
I said be professional about it.
2 mins ago, by Madara Uchiha
But I would look for an alternative, and as I leave, I would grab the CTO/whomever to a conversation and explain exactly why I'm leaving.
 
by loud, I don't mean stand on the desks and shout, I mean make it very obvious why you are going, to as many people as possible ...
why shouldn't you discuss reasons with colleagues also, who are presumably fighting the same battle that you lost ?
if your leaving, and creating unrest in the workforce leads to good changes, then there should be no management or colleagues will resent you for that ... they should thank you, and apologize for wasting your time, and letting you down ...
 
you're :P
 
@Gordon My leaving!
 
8:28 AM
did you just try to correct my english ?
 
scnr
 
if ur*
 
Obligatory:
 
But I think I'll speak to a few coworkers about the reasons I leave when I'll do
For now, the plan is to stay here, code monkeying 39h/week, and working on side projects at home
 
@Trucy Also, How long were you on "trial period"?
 
8:30 AM
@MadaraUchiha 3 months now
It'll end next month
 
I see
 
At first it was 2 months, but "hey we're renewing your trial period because it's your first job and We'Ve Always Done So™"
 
I honestly don't know how it's like in Europe. Here in Israel, developers have huge power over employees because developers are in peak demand
 
(disregarding 3 FUCKING YEARS of prior experience in apprenticeship)
/me makes her luggage for Israel
 
Employers try very hard to appease us, because otherwise, we'd just go to any of their competitors in a snap
Israel has a ton of tech, and not that many techies.
 
8:32 AM
some of my first gigs were extremely terrible ... questionably moral even ... I worked for a whore house in Venezuela for example ... make no mistake, I did not care about any of this at that point in my career ...
 
@MadaraUchiha we have a serious problem about developpers in France
We're making too many developpers
Without regards about quality
 
@JoeWatkins I worked for Taboola, which is basically an ad platform for You Wouldn't Believe What This Clickbait Means
Great company, didn't really mind the product.
 
tbh I'd work for Satan/Hitler/Trump if they're a good employer right now
 
I hated most of my first jobs, I don't remember the very first ... just the really shit ones ... I wish I'd had some backbone ...
 
@Trucy The real question is whether employers care about quality.
Git Gud, then find a company that cares.
 
8:33 AM
my first job was at a used record store.. it kinda kicked ass
 
Hi guys. Is there a tutorial for new way of programming in php?
 
"new way"?
 
i mean like the updated way of creating php
program
 
"updated way"?
 
@EarvinNillCastillo Same as always.
 
8:34 AM
@MadaraUchiha yeah, hire some indians ...
 
what
what's with the indians
:o
 
@EarvinNillCastillo There's no "new way" or "updated way"...
 
Anonymous
mornin
 
i think i messsed up my question guys. what's the difference of php to other php frameworks
sorry'
 
@EarvinNillCastillo PHP is a language and PHP frameworks are frameworks?
Let's try like this, what are you trying to do?
 
8:36 AM
ohhhh
i wanted to try these "frameworks"
 
@MadaraUchiha That's the plan. It's just that I'm complaining a lot :p
 
learn php first
 
i know basics?
crud?
 
@Trucy Complaining is fine, as long as you keep your goal in mind.
 
^ frameworks are for when you understand what the framework does, and what tradeoffs you are making in using it ...
 
8:37 AM
and im having a difficulty to understand the session, because im a .net guy rlly, when i try to modified a php program with session variable, i don't know where to find the variable calling of it
thanks @JoeWatkins and @MadaraUchiha, also @Gordon
 
re indians: if you're not in the valley, you hire cheap labour ... I'm sure there are excellent indian programmers, but there are also a vast number that just because of economics are able to provide services for much less than their western counterparts ... I've nothing against indians whatever ... also
it was a bad joke ;)
 
@JoeWatkins We do a tiny bit of outsourcing here. It hurts every time.
 
@JoeWatkins most of the valley hires that cheap labor too
 
Anonymous
!!wotd
 
sine die: without fixing a day for future action or meeting.
 
8:40 AM
@MadaraUchiha shudders ...
 
@JoeWatkins Ideally, it's the "boring" stuff, like graphs, the things that would take us a long time and aren't particularly interesting from a programmer's perspective
 
mornininininings
dang linkedin robots
 
Anonymous
!!horoscope cancer
 
> ♋ Cancer | June 21 to July 22
So ashamed will you be about falling down the stairs that you’ll lie to friends and family, telling them your husband beat you instead.
http://www.theonion.com/features/horoscope
 
Anonymous
periscope facepalm..
 
8:40 AM
But integrating those almost always takes 2/3s of the time it would take to build it properly.
And I'm not even counting similar graphs and abstraction
 
/me is afk, school run ... also am late
 
@JoeWatkins Good luck o/
 
Anonymous
!!reminders list
 
Registered reminders are:
• @⁠DaveRandom http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/33706606#33706606 → Id: :33706826 → Saturday, 29th April 2017 12:01 (UTC) - Set by Gordon - Seconds left: 6318903
• what happens → Id: :35514705 → Thursday, 21st December 2017 00:00 (UTC) - Set by Trucy - Seconds left: 26666043
• It is tomorrow → Id: :35652264 → Wednesday, 15th February 2017 11:21 (UTC) - Set by Sean - Seconds left: 9303
 
Anonymous
!!remove 3
 
8:46 AM
@Trucy I've been the complainer in past projects. I consider it part of my responsibilities as a senior dev to call out issues. However, it took a while to learn how to do it in a constructive way. No one likes a complainer. No one likes negativity. People resist change they don't understand. So if you want to be the complainer, make sure to complain in a constructive way and focus on improvements and solutions instead of just complaining about the status quo.
4
 
3 messages moved to Trash
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom still doesn't like params :(
 
it was fine until someone touched it
 
Anonymous
s/touched/removed my shoddy code
 
removed your shoddy code it?
 
Anonymous
8:49 AM
you waited until I couldn't edit...
 
you had your chance
 
@Gordon I'll keep that in mind
 
God help anyone who I code review in this place
Morning 11
 
Anonymous
o/
 
(also, I'm kind of a junior dev, so they won't take me seriously because "You Don't Know 'Bout How The World Works, Kiddo™")
 
Anonymous
8:54 AM
@Trucy use logic to prove them wrong, they'll love it
 
@JayIsTooCommon Because that always works.
 
mornin
 
@Trucy they're teaching you how the world works via the peter principle
 
hey, good afternoon all of you
 
Anonymous
moin brzz Peehoo
 
8:55 AM
Ego > Logic, yo. Especially when you have a wonderful "Senior" in your name.
 
Anonymous
^
 
Mornings...
 
Morning!
If you swap half of your name around
It becomes HaaPee (Happy!) :))
 
or Pee aah
 
3 messages moved to Trash
 
Anonymous
8:57 AM
!!remove 2
 

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