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9:00 AM
@Antono That's the goal, to share
 
@Shafizadeh ah got it. I was confused. Asker = Soldier in Turkish
 
user6061856
@Trucy true
 
i'm surprised when I saw asker on your graphic, lol
 
@JayIsTooCommon Wouldn't other people have to have told you that your work is valid in order for imposter syndrome to fit the bill?
 
@AdilIlhan really!!! interesting :-)
 
9:00 AM
@Antono employers look for that now.
 
Hi, fellow.
I have a missunderstanding of vagrant and the concept of box.
How could I vagrant ssh in something if `vagrant box` tell me that there is no installed boxes ?
 
That you are working in open source projects.
Like seeing work as a team.
 
user6061856
@SalOrozco Oh.
 
user6061856
@SalOrozco I guess I should start that.
 
@Baldráni if there is no a vm then you can't vagrant ssh
 
user6061856
9:01 AM
@SalOrozco But no one here uses Phalcon, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one.
 
user6061856
(it's a framework)
 
@AdilIlhan So this is higly strange. Where does vagrant ssh get his box if vagrant box dont see one ?
 
Don't use frameworks yet.
 
I have never worked in a team on any PHP project, I am just trying to get a good understanding so far
 
user6061856
9:03 AM
@SalOrozco okay
 
I think that is to advance for him.
He is still a beginner.
 
user6061856
@SalOrozco Wait let me check it out
 
user6061856
@SalOrozco You'd be surprised. O.o
 
Anonymous
@Jeeves you dead?
 
@JayIsTooCommon Nope. Not that I know of...
 
user6061856
9:04 AM
I looked at this before
 
First learn the fundamentals of programming.
 
user6061856
I have learned a lot. Although I'm still a beginner I can't say that actually.
 
Reckon I should wrap flysystem around an interfaced class so to prevent dependency errywhere?
 
user6061856
I have read up a ton on OOP and practiced with it in frameworks and without.
 
Just remember, some things might seem hard or difficult at first. You can learn anything. Stick to it. Don't give up.
Most frame works are no good.
 
9:05 AM
!!canon list
 
user6061856
@SalOrozco Yep. What I do is read up on it, do it with or without understanding it. Leave for a few days. Try again.
 
2 messages moved to Trash
 
That's a good way.
 
moin
 
user6061856
"If you are new to the language, this tutorial is not for you. This tutorial is aimed at people who have grasped the basics of PHP and know a little bit about object-oriented programming."
 
user6061856
9:06 AM
check
 
user6061856
mabye
 
user6061856
XD
 
Anonymous
moin joe]
 
moin Joe
 
Every day on this chat when @JoeWatkins says 'moin' it's a sign for me to go to sleep
 
user6061856
9:07 AM
"You should have at least heard of SOLID. If you are not familiar with it, now would be a good time to familiarize yourself with the principles before you start with the tutorial." I read up and practiced with it a little. XD
 
@JoeWatkins hey o/
 
\o o/
 
o/ @JoeWatkins
 
Anonymous
freak
 
user6061856
"This tutorial was written for PHP 7.0 or newer versions. If you are using an older version, please upgrade it before you start. I recommend that you use the current stable version." SHIT
 
user6061856
9:08 AM
I cna't download php 7 cuz internet sucks.
 
Jay on that link you gave him. I keep getting 404 page not found.
 
!!lxr test
 
user6061856
@SalOrozco lol
 
!!lxr strlen
 
[ -MASTER/ext/pcre/pcrelib/pcre_internal.h#369 ] #define strlen(s) _strlen(s)
 
9:09 AM
When I run it on my local server.
 
Anonymous
@SalOrozco ¯_(ツ)_/¯
 
user6061856
IDK why but Node.js, Socket.io, and Vue.js saved me from hating JS. XD
 
I thought the prefix dash was fixed ?
 
user6061856
But Node with express is a bitch
 
@JoeWatkins I was looking at @Trucy's pr :)
 
9:09 AM
Jay do you know why?
 
!!friday
 
Anonymous
shit, it's Friday!
 
I still haven't gotten into node.js, and I hate JS haha
 
9:10 AM
@PeeHaa Oh reminds me that you SHOULD NOT pull the pr
 
I know :)
 
node is easy
 
good :D
 
@JayIsTooCommon only a little bit ...
 
It's wrong, but I wanted to tell you how to fix it proper
 
9:10 AM
sweet!
 
But now I'm confused by how it works myself :P
Will bug @Ekin later
 
If you have access to Lynda.
 
Or I'll do it sometimes by myself
 
They have some good stuff on it.
 
Even better :)
 
user6061856
9:11 AM
@SalOrozco Node itself is easy. Node with socket.io + express is a pain to do normal things like you can php.
 
they are easy lol
 
The reason for some of it is that the master brnahc was just called MASTER
 
APPRENTICE
 
the routing
 
@PeeHaa WHAT
 
9:12 AM
Dunno what happened there :P
 
user6061856
The routing. ?
 
It's hard for you because, you are new.
 
But now it's PHP-MASTER too
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa just say you were speaking German, no one will notice
 
user6061856
That is true
 
9:12 AM
:-)
 
Get familiar with hmtl, css javascript.
 
If you are trying to make a web application for distribution (someone would upload it to their own server to use it) then node.js wouldn't be ideal, right?
 
user6061856
Actually I just got the hang of routing.
 
that's obviously wrong, that pr
 
user6061856
I got routing and the other stuff done. I just need to practice with cookies and sessions. (I never use cookies XD)
 
9:14 AM
with node you have to create a server.
 
@Antono Cookies seem complicated but they're actually much simpler than you'd expect
 
user6061856
@Alesana I know, I just haven't used cookies in node. But I generally don't use cookies cause users can change them. O.o
 
A surgeon can do surgery. It would be impossible for us. It's easy for him, because he has already done it.
 
@JoeWatkins Yeah I know :( I think that was my JS side that made that PR: "move fast, break things, don't test, production is made for that"
 
user6061856
@SalOrozco I know. that's easy. http.listen(myawesomewebserver) :D
 
9:15 AM
@Antono O.o
@Trucy :P
 
user6061856
@PeeHaa ??? XD
 
orminxsgsdf
 
You haven't really contributed to @Jeeves until you broke production
 
@PeeHaa I just made one.
 
Anonymous
yomin ekin
 
9:16 AM
@Ekin \o/
 
angular
angular 2 is different then angular 1
 
@Ekin gesundheit
 
@PeeHaa I did break it some time ago with Jay (iirc), does it counts? :D
 
Anonymous
@SalOrozco claps
 
also, I'd reject PHPSrcGrok.php
 
Anonymous
9:17 AM
:P
 
lol
 
@Trucy Yeah fine :P
 
user6061856
Isn't Angular 2 not backwards compatible with Angular 1?
 
I think better.
 
@SalOrozco I don't know I wouldn't say "impossible". I think if I were following good instructions on the surgery I'm doing I might have ~5% success rate on a simple surgery
 
9:17 AM
lol 5 percent
 
@Antono was just wtfing about "But I generally don't use cookies cause users can change them. O.o"
 
and not nearly enough of jeeves is tested
 
> I don't use cars because cars kill people
 
Surgeons are on the same skill level as. Pro athlete.
 
user6061856
@PeeHaa What? XD
 
9:18 AM
Come on fixing someone heart.
 
Exactly
 
Someones brain.
 
Lol I said simple
 
!!github status
 
@SalOrozco WHAT ?
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins I might work on that.. I need to get unit tests under my belt
 
untested PR's should be rejected
 
Just remember ~150 years ago the survival rate on surgery was extremely low
 
@JayIsTooCommon seems like a good friday thing to do ...
 
People would get brain surgery for headaches
 
9:20 AM
^4 yes please :P
 
@SalOrozco s/surgery/lobotomy
 
user6061856
@PeeHaa I don't use cookies mostly because I don't need them. Plus hackers could change them and do bad things. I NO LIKEY BAD THINGS. O.O
 
Anonymous
@SalOrozco Just because it's Friday doesn't mean you can talk shit all morning :D
 
@PeeHaa should I delete my PR? It won't be accepted in this state (at least I hope), and I'll do it properly one day (if we still need the fix)
 
user6061856
I like to put walls between my app and hackers.
 
9:20 AM
lol
 
@Antono lolwtfbbqappelgebakstupid
 
Also no blind pulling please :P
 
I's night here.
 
Anonymous
@Ekin nooooo!!!
 
Should be going to sleep.
 
user6061856
9:21 AM
It's 12:21 AM.
 
@JayIsTooCommon yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis
 
@Ekin Testing is for the WEAKS
 
@Antono That is so stupid
 
Anonymous
noooo, there's not fun if you don't blind pull
 
Here it's 6:21AM. I need to sleep myself lol
 
9:21 AM
fun is when things work
 
@Ekin Are you looking at me? :)
 
I would be so very frigging glad to be weak :D
 
user6061856
@PeeHaa So? What's wrong with not using cookies? XD
 
@PeeHaa maaaybe
 
A single container per cronjob. Are they serious?
 
9:21 AM
@Antono Your entire statement is stupid
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins pffft 'work', who needs work ?
 
lol
 
user6061856
@PeeHaa Sounds like most of my words. shrugs Nothing's changed I guess.
 
Anonymous
@Ekin don't change him yet please :( I need him to blind merge my PR, then I'm all for reviewing! :D
 
@Jimbo containerize all the things ftw
 
9:23 AM
@Antono don't get discouraged. Remember we were all new at one point.
 
@JoeWatkins we're paid to fix things. If things works, we won't get paid.
/me smarts
 
Anonymous
oh wait, blind pulling, not merging. So blind merging is still ok
 
user6061856
@SalOrozco Lol, discouraged? You make me laugh. I'm beyond from being discouraged. Like, NO POINT OF RETURN. Everything now is just knowledge.
 
Some people here are on a really high level. Been doing it for years and years. So some questions seem dumb .
 
Alright I'm going to sleep now peace guys
 
9:24 AM
@JayIsTooCommon Dunno how mutable PeeHaa is on that anyway :P
 
user6061856
@Alesana See ya! :D
 
Anonymous
@Ekin his AA group said the same
 
@Trucy urm ... nonsense ... the code that tests your feature or fix works is as important as the code for your feature or fix ... repeat until your brain hurts ...
 
if we didn't break jeeves chris would have nothing around here to fix
 
@JoeWatkins I wish my boss would think that tests are as important as code :(
 
9:27 AM
@Trucy pfft, who is more important, me, or your stupid boss ?
IT'S ME
 
@Trowski If I move it to a .bat file, it prints the exit code of the previous command, not the one before that like it does with &. But I still can't get it to work with PHP. But I also don't see any process output in example/basic-command.php.
 
Anonymous
yeah, stupid gandmaster Joe is more important!
 
s/stupid/grandmaster
 
@Antono :p
 
@JoeWatkins but stupid boss gives me money to survive and have the internets at home
 
9:27 AM
@Trucy tests are code
 
none of this is at all convincing, at all
 
user6061856
@PeeHaa Don't worry, I'll probably find my statement stupid later after I read up more shit on cookies and sessions. XD
 
user6061856
@Gordon TRUE
 
!!? selling unit-testing to your manager
 
Search for "selling unit-testing to your manager" (https://www.google.com/search?q=selling+unit-testing+to+your+manager&lr=lang_en)
• How do you convince management to "invest" in uni… - 4 apr. 2011 - How did you convince your manager to let you unit test? By "use" … However, it become… (http://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/65081/how-do-you-convince-management-to-invest-in-unit-tests)
• How do you convince your boss to TDD - Miško Heve… - 16 mei 2009 - To me, nothing is worse than someone trying to sell something that he … Create a smal… (http://misko.hevery.com/2009/05/16
 
9:29 AM
(in my itw on monday I'll ask them the Joel (May His name be blessed) test questions
 
any manager that needs convincing of the need to test code doesn't deserve to be a manager imo
 
@Antono :-D
 
they are clearly unqualified, and stupid ...
 
@JoeWatkins yet, they exist
 
in great numbers
 
9:32 AM
@JayIsTooCommon heheheeh cc @Ekin
 
user6061856
Code = tests
 
user6061856
tests = code
 
@Gordon sure, but there is nothing forcing you to work with them, or even listen to them, if there is nobody in the hierarchy that is amenable to the idea that code needs to be tested, then you don't have a suitable work environment, you are not able to do your job properly
walk away ... or run ...
 
Anonymous
easier said than done
 
@JoeWatkins eh, the manager's job is to manage resources. But also to listen to feedback and especially from tech persons
 
9:34 AM
stagger stagger crawl crawl crawl
 
/me is going to do what I came for in the office so I can relax the rest of the day
wish me luck
 
I wouldn't mind a manager telling me "eh, unit tests? Why?" and then proceeds to listen to me and take my feedback in account
 
moin
 
Anonymous
hoi chris
 
right, should work too
 
9:35 AM
\o
 
@PeeHaa no, merge our shit first
then we'll wish you luck
 
Chris is here
Ask him please <3
@DaveRandom mornigns
 
but he actually reviews it :(
 
almost everything is easier said than done, you've said precisely nothing by saying "easier said than done" ... if you can't do your job properly, you are wasting your limited time, and damaging your career ...
 
Anonymous
@PaulCrovella hahah
 
9:36 AM
@PaulCrovella Ask @JayIsTooCommon if that really is the case :P
One last thing before I go @DaveRandom libdns \o/
 
@JoeWatkins I'd like to work for one of your dream companies :(
 
user6061856
I am uploading my horrible project on github
 
user6061856
XD
 
for now I'm stuck with companies that accept me…
 
shall we do a poll, to see how many of us are allowed to do our jobs properly ? or do you think we don't really need too ?
 
9:39 AM
Morning @JoeWatkins. With lxr being down, are there are notes re: the changes to the arginfo macros? Or internal api changes 7.2 in general?
 
@rtheunissen we have our own lxr, with blackjack, and hookers
also hai :)
 
user6061856
lol
 
Hi :)
 
It's been too long.
 
9:40 AM
yeah it definitely has
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins I disagree when putting this in context. Leaving a job at the start of your career because you're not allowed to do unit tests would be a lot more damaging to your career than sticking around. Put up with it and do unit tests in your own time for your own / OS projects
 
Thanks, should be able to find what I'm looking for.
 
if you look in zend_types.h for the changes in master to types in arginfo
 
Anonymous
we are talking about unit tests, right?
 
@JayIsTooCommon that's short sighted ... try to develop something for a year without testing it, watch it fail all the time, watch is cost the business money, watch them refuse to give you a reference for your next job ...
 
9:43 AM
@JoeWatkins From my experience, most "suits" fail to see the connection between testing and business costs unless techies drill it down their throats repeatedly.
 
Can you use #if in a macro?
 
it is incumbent upon you to shove it down their throats, and if they do not listen, you leave, there's no other option
 
Although @JayIsTooCommon nothing is stopping you from unit testing your own code.
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins And that's very presumptuous imo and not very likely
 
@rtheunissen msvc doesn't like that
 
Anonymous
9:44 AM
> Put up with it and do unit tests in your own time for your own / OS projects
 
Anonymous
agreed :)
 
@JoeWatkins Sure there is. I wouldn't quite a first or secodn job within a month of joining just because they don't have unit tests.
You learn from it and ask beforehand in your next job interview.
 
you might spend a few months trying to convince them, but if by the end of probation you are getting nowhere, you are wasting your time in that job
 
@JoeWatkins preaching to the choir. I agree that this is the professional thing to do. But I also acknowledge that there is people that are not in a position to change jobs easily.
 
@MadaraUchiha That's what I'm (kinda) doing
 
9:45 AM
But I would be suspicious as an interviewer if I see a 01/2017-02/2017 in a CV of a candidate.
Especially if there's not much else there.
 
Well, not unit testing is not the only thing that doesn't work here
 
@JayIsTooCommon I didn't mean open source projects
I mean in company projects, just your own code.
 
I'm stuck with ZF 1, angular 1, a crappy workstation, a single screen, and I can't have any initiative
 
Doesn't even have to be part of the build at first.
 
@MadaraUchiha what if further down you read that the reason for the short stint was for very very good reasons
 
9:46 AM
AND this company has a bad reputation
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins I have to disagree. My current job, lead doesn't even know what a unit test is. And yet I have progressed massively in the past year. I have multiple successful projects under my name and an awesome reference waiting for me
 
> My current job, lead doesn't even know what a unit test is.
 
@Trucy I have a single screen, too. In addition to the built-in of my thinkpad. And ZF1, while dated, could be worse.
 
I mean, just WHAT ?
 
Yup, you can change things
 
9:47 AM
@JoeWatkins Then I would think "Well, does that mean he'll join and leave after a month because he'd find something else he doesn't like here?"
You see where I'm going with this?
 
@Gordon in what ways could it be worse? I mean, all support has been dropped, even security fixes
 
@MadaraUchiha c'mon, be serious ... "I left that job because after trying to argue the case for best practices, I was consistently ignored, I felt I wasn't able to do my job to a high standard so I left at the end of probation to pursue a better work environment" ... the only reason you would see that negatively is because you don't have a better work environment ...
 
Now, if you had 10 good entries in your CV, then one job where you leave after a month, I'd be more at ease
 
I'm working on code that's already obsolete and prone to hacks
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins I am currently on the way out (hopefully).. but still the past year of working here has been probably the most valuable year I have ever had. Mainly because of #R11
 
9:48 AM
But if you have 2 previous jobs and you left one or both of them quickly...
 
@Trucy it could be code igniter
 
It takes more than tech to land a job, you need to be reliable.
 
If you make a head start on it in your own time and show them how awesome it is and how it helps, /me optimistically thinks they might get to learn something new and just adapt it
 
If we perceive you as so stubborn that you'd leave the moment things are slightly not to your liking, we probably won't hire you.
 
Anonymous
^
 
user6061856
9:50 AM
It has uploaded. O.O github.com/Terminal-JS/rp-resort
 
@JayIsTooCommon when the next interviewer asks you about your duties and workflow, how much do you think that reference is going to be worth when you have to admit things like the lead doesn't know what a unit test is ?
not very much is the answer ...
 
@JoeWatkins So far, I haven't really relied on referenced.
I relied on my Stack Overflow and GitHub profiles
 
well I haven't even relied on interviews ;D
 
Do you think anyone would care for references for you, @JoeWatkins, the core PHP developer who wrote the best debugger currently in the marker for PHP?
Obviously not
 
we're not talking about me
 
9:52 AM
My advice to @JayIsTooCommon is to unit test despite of the cluelessness of your tech lead, convince other coworkers to do the same, help them learn
Try to improve the company
 
@JoeWatkins what about #if around #define?
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins That's short sighted on their part. If the integrity of a reference is a game changer in the recruitment process then it's probably not the company for me. They should be able to judge me through multiple interviews / code / tests etc... Not a reference.
 
@MadaraUchiha and then he gets fired for wasting countless hours on writing the tests the lead dev clearly said are not desired ;)
 
@Gordon Then good riddance
 
References are hugely important, and often surface things that you can't gather from even hours of interviewing.
 
9:54 AM
@rtheunissen all preprocessor, preprocessor inside preprocessor (macros) makes msvc confused ... what you want to do is break them down into separate macros, macros inside macros are fine ...
 
@MadaraUchiha I guess I'd try to educate my team, incl. the tech lead instead. do a short pres or a demo of how it works and why it's useful and why it's not a waste of time. better than some stealth mode.
 
Hmm.. I have these:
#define ARGINFO_ZVAL_RETURN_BOOL(name, z) \
ZEND_BEGIN_ARG_WITH_RETURN_TYPE_INFO_EX(arginfo_##name, 0, 1, _IS_BOOL, 0, 0) \
    ZEND_ARG_INFO(0, z) \
ZEND_END_ARG_INFO()
 
@Gordon If that opportunity exists, by all means.
 
@rtheunissen this
 
Staring at where to use the if PHP_VERSION_ID >= 70200 now.
 
9:55 AM
#if PHP_VERSION_ID >= MAGIC_NUMBER
#define MY_MACRO
#else
#define MY_MACRO
#endif
 
Thanks, will give that a shot.
 
/@Jeeves something
 
@Naruto Bee's cannot see the colour red.
 
Anonymous
huh
 
!!dad add roadies / I have a polish friend who is a roadie for a band / I have a Czech one two, Czech one too, one too
 
9:58 AM
@DaveRandom Ha ha ha! Brilliant! I'll save that one about roadies for later!
 
haha
 

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