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4:00 PM
@pmmaga hmm, where?
 
@Danack on the bug jeeves linked: bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=75648
 
5 hours ago, by Sean
Quick Q, does anyone know why php [filepath] reports to STDOUT instead of STDERR if the file is missing?
Apart from maybe legacy reasons as leigh pointed out earlier
 
@SaitamaSama Maybe it's broken. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But it looks like you're trying to create a session mechanism?
 
nah... just basic cookies.
 
But your URL says login. :P
 
4:03 PM
I should be doing session, but cookies, just for the sake of simplicity
 
Just needs an update to the new Aerys version.
 
hmmm... does it work without redis now?
I remember installing it once, but only to find out it doesn't do filesystem session management :(
 
@SaitamaSama It should be pretty easy to add that now.
 
hmm..
 
@Danack if by something sane you mean libraries and glue, yes
it's a JSON based API, doesn't need all that junk in it's trunk
 
4:13 PM
@kelunik so... anything I can hot patch to it probably? :P
 
@SaitamaSama Try whether it works if you only set a single cookie.
 
hm, lemme try that
 
gimme a sec, need to boot to arch again now :P
 
@DaveRandom Your title here. :P
 
4:16 PM
:-P fixed
 
@kelunik why not fixing the randomness of uniqid() instead?
 
By default the output doesn't have enough entropy
 
@pmmaga Changing the output format might break applications in subtle ways.
 
^ and "people" will just generally throw their toys of the pram if you propose it
I would expect a removal proposal to have a much higher chance of success
 
4:22 PM
@kelunik nope
 
hmm.. how about defaulting the 2nd param to true?
or is that still shitty but just more expensive?
 
Obvious application breaking BC breaks are better than subtle bc breaks.
 
@pmmaga again this is effectively changing the output format. Probably better to just educate people to do the right thing for whatever they are trying to do
Filling logs with E_DEPRECATED is a lot easier to see than having to debug the app to find what changed
 
@DaveRandom ahh i see. I didn't notice how it changed the output. Makes sense now, thanks
 
> and adding only insufficient random
random what? @kelunik :-)
Dave?
 
4:35 PM
@Danack Fail early, fail often
 
Continue failing. Call it a feature.
 
@Danack And here is your degree in advertising marketing PR
> Putting clients first by putting employees first, immediately after prioritizing fiscal responsibilities and leveraging profitability towards exceeding by empowering our employees to put clients (and themselves) first, in a diverse and respectful environment of only those that come first, first.
 
@kelunik also, there seems to be dependency problem as well
Problem 1
    - Installation request for amphp/aerys-session ^0.2.2 -> satisfiable by amphp/aerys-session[v0.2.2].
    - amphp/aerys-session v0.2.2 requires amphp/aerys ^0.3|^0.4|^0.5 -> satisfiable by amphp/aerys[0.5.x-dev, v0.3.0, v0.4.0, v0.4.1, v0.4.2, v0.4.3, v0.4.4, v0.4.5, v0.4.6, v0.4.7, v0.5.0] but these conflict with your requirements or minimum-stability.
 
Yes, as said, it has to be updated to the latest releases.
 
oh... gummenasai, I didn't pay attention :B
 
4:40 PM
8 is surely a while off, why not just declare the longer types to be removed in 8?
 
But it should mostly only require a bump in composer.json.
 
@PeeHaa random updoc
 
That will get you PHP 10
 
even better
 
4:51 PM
PHP 16*
 
/me installs 32 bit windows twice amd get 64 bit windows.
 
The hell. 17.6k seriously BTC -_-
 
@Fabor Agorism FTW.
I made quite a chunk of change when it hit 10k the other day. Shouldn't have sold I guess.
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/47699751/… Apparently I can't down vote bad posts anymore :(
 
I actually bought £200 worth back at $7k and forgot about it because it was on my nano. I bought it for trading.
 
5:03 PM
Do you still have it?
 
@Allenph Better to sell in profit than cry if a bubble pops.
Yeah still have it.
 
^ Yep
I see you like to live dangerously.
 
@Epodax Yeah, and apparently some 3 idiots have upvoted it.
 
I just can't believe how rapidly it's rising.
 
@mega6382 I know, ah well, I had fun down voting while it lasted.
 
ti.to/jsconfeu/jsconf-eu-2018 ........................seems expensive.
 
> the labour-of-love conference
 
@Epodax I think it was upvoted just cause it had tag.
 
Love is never cheap.
 
Love is meant to be free.
 
5:07 PM
it is
 
The cake free love is a lie
 
^ You will always pay for love, one way or another.
 
I use bitcoin. Love is getting pretty expensive.
 
My boss offered to pay me in bitcoin about 3 months back. :X rip
Who needs ~50k anyway -_-
 
I do.
 
5:19 PM
hello
hi
 
howdy
 
\o
@acoder You wanna say something?
 
Yes.
 
Then just say it, don't wait around.
 
I need a help for how to make 'user is typing' in messages top.
Thanks- @MSpreij
 
5:26 PM
You need the JavaScript room, or google.
 
ftr those things are annoying and put me off using things that have them
but you probably want websockets
and a large supply of something with a fairly high alcohol-by-volume
 
lol
 
@DaveRandom like @tereško
 
I'll take two
 
yeh, or maybe some windscreen washer fluid
 
5:31 PM
I hate web servers IIS
 
what?!!!
 
aerys <3
 
You are on your own with IIS, every time I touch it things catch fire
usually because I set fire to them
 
hahahahaha :D:D
 
Have you tried setting fire to IIS instead of the things around it?
 
5:39 PM
@DaveRandom you know... I've been tempted more than once today...
this thing has brought me to tears
 
I ran PHP on IIS a few times, wasn't impressed.
 
@Epodax clearly you have never worked with IIS. It is physically impossible to set fire to IIS without setting fire to the things around it, because it is so badly designed it basically douses things in petrol the second it touches them. The source code for all IIS modules begins with #include <incest.h>
 
@DaveRandom No of course I haven't, I don't want to get third degree burns.
 
@Tiffany My approach to this problem, for a couple of years now, it to get things running so that they work, and do any frilly stuff (SSL, URL rewriting, basically anything that requires actually configuring the web server rather than the app) with an nginx reverse proxy.
 
What I learned from my experience with IIS, was to stay away from it or it'll give you smallpox.
 
5:44 PM
I'm not familiar with nginx enough yet :/ I need to get this shit working before end of next week. I've been freaking out today thinking I won't make the deadline.
 
The additional latency is typically <1ms if you do it in a VM on the same tin as IIS
@Tiffany what are you actually trying to do?
 
I'm also wondering that the thing I'm trying to do... might just fucking work on production, because the domain names/directories are sane.
@DaveRandom stackoverflow.com/questions/47700474/… . Actually, I do have a question -- is this readable/make sense? When I look at it, it seems like it's too much, but not sure how else to go about it.
 
fgets second parameter causes memory leak – #75649
 
@DaveRandom Why not just hard call a removal for PHP 8? Do you think it would cause too many breakages?
 
@Tiffany are they separate applications in IIS?
@Sean yeh I guess
 
6:00 PM
okay @Fabor . i googled but failed.
 
@DaveRandom no
 
I dunno, I just noticed that @NikiC has a wide-reaching "stuff to deprecate in 7.3" RFC, so maybe it should just be combined with that (unless he hates the idea)
 
> That wasn't the answer we were expecting.
Thanks wiki, that's a really helpful error message
 
give it the right answer
 
Trying to sign up to the php wiki, is there some kind of restriction on it?
 
6:02 PM
it's only lunch time and I've already reached brain-fry.
 
Alright, we're going for 24+ hours awake today.
 
Ah that would be why
 
@Sean You got fooled by the captcha? :D
 
@Tiffany where is the JS/CSS (the full URL of it) that should be included in the resulting page?
 
@PeeHaa Yes, I have no idea what it means
:V
 
6:04 PM
The trick is to read the entire page IIRC
 
til @Sean is a computer
 
@DaveRandom I'll send to you on hangouts
 
posted on December 07, 2017 by CommitStrip

 
🤖
 
0010110010010001011110001010001011100100101
 
6:09 PM
I'm not really sure what it's asking other than putting my email address back in again. Am I supposed to be sending an email to someone else after reg? If I do then it's not listed here. :<
 
Yeah, I was trying to register too, I checked everything even the page source, found nothing and eventually gave up.
So, what is the answer?
 
@DaveRandom probably a nice idea. I've done the opposite with wiki.php.net/rfc/binary_string_deprecation making it separate from wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecations_php_7_2 and it didn't go well :P
 
OH got it
Found it in the github repo LOL. I still don't know what I should be emailing for, so I'll leave reg for now.
 
Mind sharing the url?
 
6:16 PM
Thanks.
 
@Sean What is this? :p
 
Thanks @kelunik :P (Warning: Big page) Your change to the register page now means new users have no idea what email to put in the auth / spam field
 
@DaveRandom What is this?
Sorry Sean. Clicked the wrong reply.
 
Why this warning? "Cannot change session name when session is active"? – #75650
 
@Allenph It is a binary command for @Sean because he is a computer.
 
6:24 PM
Aren't we all computers, maaaaaaaan? Hippie Voice
 
hi yooooo ppl there
sup everyone
 
Is there an issue tracker for the wiki?
 
for quick : in switch() -> after (default:) dos break; important or not ? if it is why ?
 
default doesn't have to be the last case listed in the switch block. If you have a case block and the default case is last, you don't need to add break, it won't change how the code is run. What might matter is code consistency though
 
6:32 PM
so if default was the first the we use break;
if its the last we dont need break; right ?
 
@Sean Registration didn't work until yesterday anyway, because mails weren't working.
 
*then
 
If it's the last then, no, you don't need to add a break. Depends on how semantic you/your team are I guess
 
thanks @Sean
 
@kelunik Ha, would I still need to send an email out to internals just to say hi?
 
6:35 PM
@Sean Yes, because someone needs to give you karma.
 
nothing up to semantics just a thing i didn't pay attention old days
 
Alright, something I need to do then. Cheers.
 
@Sean Fixed.
 
Wes
6:54 PM
user image
3
s/npm install/composer update/
 
@PeeHaa I am disappointed, I really thought you would take the bait on this, even though I have been trying it for over a decade and no-one has fallen for it yet
 
:P
I got distracted by games if that makes you feel better :)
 
no it doesn't, it cuts to my very soul and injures me in a way that I will never recover from
 
Wes
what does this code mean?
!!> { echo "foo"; }
 
Wes
7:01 PM
can i add arbitrary braces around anything? is there a reason for that?
!!> {{{{{{{{{{ echo "x"; }}}}}}}}}}
 
Because C I assume
 
anyone here using sublime text 3 ? :)
 
@Wes I don't remember the why, but this is the how :P
 
7:07 PM
Even crazier 3v4l.org/aDkWL
 
@PeeHaa I'm bored. Play Fallout and let me watch.
 
dos anyone here use "Sublime text" for coding ?
 
@Fabor I out of internet ATM :P
 
Whut
 
Hit the cap
 
7:17 PM
Need to lay off the rule 34 porn
 
@Wes yes, I do it with label-jump based code (switch/goto)
 
Wes
hm, for example?
THE_LABEL:
{


}
 
do_stuff: {
    // statements
    goto do_more_stuff;
}
do_other_stuff: {
    // statements
    goto do_stuff;
}
do_more_stuff: {
    // statements
}
switch ($cond) {
    case 'Yo': {
    }
    case 'Momma': {
    }
}
 
@Fabor Wut?
 
Look up Rule 34
 
7:22 PM
I'm not sure if I want to.
Jesus Christ.
 
@Wes it's an affection of PHP's C-based origins I think, in C it makes sense because of block scoping, in PHP not so much but I still like it for readability sometimes when you have a very long routine with jumps (e.g. lexers/parsers)
 
Wes
i see
 
gotos are so ugly. And serves almost no real purpose in PHP.
 
Unless you write parsers.
 
heh, depends on what you use php for
Jack or less of some trades, master of none =p
 
7:32 PM
@kelunik Even then there are other means to solve the same problem.
 
what to call a service, which manages Project entities?
 
@mega6382 If you're talking about fcalls, no.
 
EntityManager<Project> =)
wheps Manager<Project<Entity>> =p
fuck it, I am going to bed.. nn
 
.. but you were being so hilarious
so, any ideas from grown-ups?
 
/me waves
 
Wes
7:42 PM
Projects of what sort?
 
well, websites
Project could be renamed to Site
(and, no, I cant use "repository")
 
ProjectManager
 
:D
"Info", "Data", & "Object" in class names are correctly pronounced "ummm"
 
Wes
something network network
 
IMHO, "Manager" also fits in that list
 
Wes
7:46 PM
Network maybe? :B
 
not why I chose manager ;)
 
hmm ... won't fit
@ircmaxell because that suffix has a tendency to spread ad multiply
 
Wes
manager is a terrible suffix, but i wouldn't mind SitesServices or something
 
every service would end up as "SomethingManager", just because of consistency
 
If you can't decide on a name maybe your class is doing too many things? :P
 
7:51 PM
@pmmaga it currently does not exist
 
Does this site manager just manage the storage and retrieval of a collection of Sites does it do more?
 
"almanac"? that's a yearly thing?
@Orangepill it also deletes things
 
So ... like a SiteRepository but you can't all it that because of reasons
SiteRegistry maybe...
 
What about SiteSuppository?
 
hmm .. now, that could work
 
Wes
7:58 PM
wow. google is down <ins>for me</ins>
 
No it's not? :p
 
Bite your tongue. Why would you say something like that?
 
maybe you wrote something wrong on one of google docs ?
 
@tereško Thesaurus suggests depot, archive, registry, cache, and depository.
Or coffer. That would add some flavor.
 
Well this is both scary and cool.
 
8:02 PM
How about ProjectHandler or ProjectServiceManager
 
@Wes google has been doing strange things in past year: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15066518
@Allenph nah, I will go with Suppository
6
seems good enough
 
Wes
are you serious?
 
Ha. I win.
 
@tereško You know what it means, right?
 
Shhhhh.
 
Wes
8:05 PM
aren't suppository... meds you take from not the usual insert hole.
 
fuck
 
Hahahahahahahahahaha!
 
you're right
shit
ok, I need more options
 
No. The opposite of shit.
 
Wes
8:05 PM
literally shit
 
I hate naming problems
 
You guys just couldn't let me have my fun.
 
3 mins ago, by mega6382
How about ProjectHandler or ProjectServiceManager
 
IMO There needs to be more suppositories in software engineering
 
Wes
aren't there enough already
 
8:08 PM
lol
 
8:23 PM
that was the laugh I needed
 
I'm not sure if this is true or a rumor, but there was something about how kids would soak tampons in vodka and stuff it up their butt to get drunk. Their breath wouldn't smell like alcohol, so their parents would be none the wiser.
 
My Boss: We only write object oriented code here.
Me: No we don't write any.
Him: What do you mean? Everything is made of objects!
Me: Writing giant functions that do a bunch of things and then throwing them in a class does not make code object oriented.
Him: That's what object oriented means. I've been around a while, if you're not careful I could mistake your suggestions as insubordination.

Getting threatened at work. That's a new one.
 
@Allenph I'm kind of used that
 
@Tiffany I haven't done it, but that definitely would work. I see people putting roll or speed in their butts sometimes at raves.
 
8:29 PM
Guy sounds like a knob.
 
@Allenph what people do for a high...
 
Wes
@Allenph told you already you should get rid of that attitude though
any experience is good experience, even laravel
 
I remember, 1 of my ex-boss threatened have me kidnapped when I resigned.
 
Was he serious?
 
@Allenph Absorption through suppository is faster.
 
8:32 PM
I don't think so. He just had that kind of stupid mentality.
 
In an emergency situations where someone is dehydrated it's a much better option to put a tube up the butt.
 
@Wes Most of the time it's not even Laravel. It's some BS ORM this dude wrote on top of a router he wrote, on top of a CMS he wrote which literally dumps kilobytes of data into a JS variable as its main data transportation method.
That's like saying making mud pies will make me a better baker.
 
@Fabor ...as opposed to an IV with liquids?
 
@Allenph The main issue for guys like him is they see their apps like their children, they will defend attacks even if reasonable.
We all get a little code-defensive sometimes. They key is managing that feeling.
 
@Tiffany Actually yes sometimes. The bore of an IV is only so large. When I was doing search and rescue we had an enema tube in our kits.
 
8:35 PM
@Fabor I just assume all of my code is shit. Problem solved.
@Allenph interesting
 
If I find a repeated bad decision on an app I will find some reading which highlights that issue and suggests a better way, then "incidentally" find a way to show the creator. Better for them to see and recognise their own bad code than have it pointed out. (Personality types)
 
I tried that. I wrote some API endpoints and directives on his "Angular" app and the back-end. Reprimanded.
 
Wes
guys i'm going with decision tables, boundary value analysis, all pairs, black box testing for interface contract validation. i've written about 1000 lines of tests for a single method (!!!) and while i like that i've used science, i cannot ignore the fact that all this is overkill
i should probably trim something, but then my decision tables would be incomplete
bah.
testing sux
 
@Wes Is that with your testing suite you're making?
 
Wes
i've used it yeah
 
8:43 PM
@Allenph that would be the moment when I hand in my resignation
 
Yeah, well I have an expensive apartment, and a girlfriend to take care of.

Plus I just totaled my car. I have a few interviews coming up, but.
 
then start looking for a new job
ASAP
@Allenph that sounds suspiciously like what I worked with on, when employed at Ergo Insurance
 
I don't work there...but where I work is an agency that has clients all over the place.
 
How much the gf cost? :P
4
 
lol
 
8:51 PM
@Fabor ten easy payments of $9.95.
 
Class Girlfriend{}
$gf = new Girlfriend();
echo gettype($gf);
How to be single ^
 
Haha.
 
yeah, you're objectigfying women
 
9:06 PM
We're often told not to use real-life scenarios for our programming demonstrations. This may be the best case.
 
@Allenph dis poop
@Tiffany that poop too
 
9:31 PM
@Wes how does your designer ocd feel about this progress bar? ^
 
Wes
why
 
why, is how it feels, or why am I asking?
 
Wes
why are you asking, what's wrong with it?
 
:O
it goes right through the end!!!!
it's not centered!!!
me eyes!!!!
 
you're not centered
 
9:33 PM
to help you see the issue
@DaveRandom touché
... but yeah, are you meaning to say, that I'm like, totally alone in being disturbed by this progress bar going right until the end of the splash screen?
 
Wes
... symmetry is a great way to make something unoriginal
also the logo is not centered. what about that
 
that is ok, it has a consistency with the black thing
the progress bar is supposed to fill my imaginary preconceived width of what 100% means
if it begins at <offset> from left, it should end at <offset> from right, yes?
 
@Sean Possibly because there's not much value in doing that. So long as people don't use it by accident, then changing the soft, deprecation, BC break into a hard, "yo that function is no longer available", doesn't provide any extra value, and just makes life harder for people who have legacy apps that are using, and have consciously chosen not to change.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I'm not a designer...but aren't off center objects supposed to be symmetrically "heavy" to avoid that feeling you're talking about?
The only thing on the left side is that tiny logo.
 
well, now that I've been argued against about it, I can start to see some kind of coherence from the lower right corner to the upper left one
but still. I don't know of any other progress bar that goes to the end of it's parent container
 
9:53 PM
o/
 
\o
 
o/
 
Wes
@FélixGagnon-Grenier why did you buy webstorm tho, it has the same bundle of phpstorm
well... unless they've changed it recently
 
actually, I bought all of them
 
Wes
lol
 
10:00 PM
maybe it's just my imagination, but somewhen I was with phpstorm and some deeply hipster js stuff were not reacting correctly
iirc. maybe they're really just the same
 
Wes
you probably just needed to enable some plugins, or download them
there was a table somewhere on the jetbrains' site
they were basically identical
so loops in boundary value analysis, i think i need to test loop of length 0 (aka, the loop is not hit) and then that the loop works, like if i manage to do at least 2 iterations. does that make sense to you? :B
i don't think i need more than that
 
hmmm... that's not boundary analysis, is it?
 
Wes
the loop is the line, the valid zone is 0 (loop not entered), 1, 2, 3 ... then continues in the invalid zone
but i figured that i don't need to test more than "not entered", and "does loop"
or if i really wanted to be pedantic, if 3 iterations are done. but no more than that
seems reasonable to me
 
10:18 PM
ok people nite
 
10:28 PM
So continuing from a half-talked about long-forgotten topic. Conjoined blog from Room 11 people We've already had interest, so next is help me find a "Ghost" theme.
 
"hipster ghost" I don't think any name would be more suitable
@Fabor shiny
 
@Fabor that's basically what I spend on lunch
 
@tereško the heck you eating.
 
well, a bit less (more like $14-16)
@Fabor my job has offices in the "embassy district"
 
I think what @tereško is saying is that he wants to pay for the theme, Fabor.
 
10:41 PM
At least the lunch is good then.
 
@Allenph no, but I could pitch in a bit
.. then again, the steam sale is coming
 
I'm partial to the vapor theme on colorlib
 
10:54 PM
Someone just sent me that...thoughts?
 
11:25 PM
@tereško No need for $20
 
That's easier than producing content :p
 
Wes
just had pasta al pesto (at 00:30 AM)
i feel fat already
 
11:57 PM
mornings
 

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