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g'evenin
evenings
oh, ekin has awoken
well, almost
19:16
how soon after waking up is too soon to drink scotch?
welcome to yesterday
I am slow?
:(
well, we now know you don't hang out on meta much :p
heh
19:17
I don't really like meta
It's were good ideas go to die
you go do this :p
user924016
=)
people who care about Meta coincidentally are people who don't care about Main
what do you mean? many concerns on meta are related to main.
if not most...
it's like those people, who complain that some video game is catering to demography, which identifies as "attack helicopter kin"
19:21
@FélixGagnon-Grenier What @tereško is a bit of a generalization
But there are people on meta who are not particularly active on any main site, and are just here for the meta.
Which is silly, but it happens.
this is my 4th glass of wine
4
@tereško I have no idea what that sentence means
oh I see
@FélixGagnon-Grenier google "otherkin"
4 is a good number
19:22
@AnmolRaghuvanshiVersion1.0 I seriously want this on a t-shirt.
@Ekin As someone who knows Japanese, no it is not.
@tereško oh yeah, I started reading that (thanks to you, obviously) some years ago when you mentioned it
hehe
@MadaraUchiha se-fucking-conded. I mean it. I'm willing to pay
talking to the drunk-version of me usually cause a significant lose in ones hope for humanity
19:24
also is amusing
@tereško Talking to the non-drunk-version of you also incurs the same effect, usually.
it's a public service
@tereško You should export a fully RESTful API at losehopeinhumanity.com
:D
19:27
lol. just caught me trying to figure out where I would put @tereško as a class if I were to fit it in a namespace.
wonders how many people went to check if that domain is available for purchase
blah, just don't forget to drink some water before you go sleep
is wine better than whisky??
to avoid a stupid headache like the one I have now
heh.
@AnmolRaghuvanshiVersion1.0 is javascript better than php?
19:31
@Ekin just take some ibuprofen
nope
@MadaraUchiha yep, pretty much available
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Yes. #shotsfired
it's really good, and you can mix it with alcohol
If javascript is wine, then yes... but javascript is just sour grapes.
19:32
trust me, I know this stuff
well, I tend to stay away from all types of chemicals :p but I might go for it if it persist
> Trust me, I'm a certified Zend engineer
~ Famous last words
meh, php is getting cooler
ibuprofen is the 21st century aspirin
And just like all alcohols, all programming languages are depressants. Some just taste better while doing that.
19:33
maybe some day it'll even get it's own client side interpreter, and we'll kick javascript out
webasm is coming...
@MadaraUchiha could not answer that...
TIL that properly converting chat messages to tweets is actually harder than it looks
@PeeHaa HTML?
strip those tags already
19:35
@MadaraUchiha Yes and pings and other stuff I am finding out what else to do now
don't you work sometime @PeeHaa ?
I have worked the entire day. I can finally do dumb stuff like that now
@AnmolRaghuvanshiVersion1.0 I was expecting "WAT"
user924016
We work too much and hug too little =/
¯_(ツ)_/¯
19:40
@PeeHaa well ircmaxell shared that video..
@AnmolRaghuvanshiVersion1.0 destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat
Quick JS WAT question, no opening console, no running the code
What would the following return? ['10', '10', '10'].map(parseInt)
user924016
3?
:p /me to dumb PeeHaa
@RonniSkansing arr.map() always returns a new array.
user924016
19:42
hah.. embarrassing
arr.map(fn) is like PHP's array_map($arr, "fn")
I'd expect [10, 10, 10] then
Any other answers? :)
Without the radix only crazy things can happen
user924016
[1,1,1]
19:43
considering it's javascrpt probably nans?
@PeeHaa And crazy things happen indeed.
The correct answer is [10, NaN, 2]
close enough
user924016
why 2?
That's because .map() will call the function I pass with 3 parameters
The current item, the current index, and the array itself
parseInt() takes 2 parameters
The string to convert, and the number base (radix) in which that number is in.
See where this is going?
19:45
yep, a bit
> @FélixGagnon-Grenier Yes. #shotsfired
you were actually not serious then :p
:D
parseInt('10', 0) produces 10
Invalid bases are defaulted to 10
so ['10', '10', '10'].map((x)=>parseInt(x)) fixes it
10 in base 1 is NaN
10 in base 2 is 2
@KevinMGranger Yes.
['10', '10', '10'].map(Number) or .map(parseFloat) too
Because those don't take a radix.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier hmm ~37mins it seems for bourbon
haha. beat me to it
19:54
@MadaraUchiha nope (2 in base 10, perhaps :))
user924016
imdb.com/title/tt2848252 gonna watch this shit and sleep
user924016
laters
@Leigh 2 as represented by JS's Number type
Which are in base 10, yes.
10 in base 2 is 2 in base 10
@RonniSkansing later
@FélixGagnon-Grenier 10 in base 2 is 1010
I took me way too long to get the fact my adblocker was doing things
:D
20:07
yeah
that's a fine tweet @Jeeves
And the list of still todo is longer than I hoped it would be
I probably also forgot some cases still
> Spread out tweet over multiple messages when hitting the character limit
that seems achievable by my retarded mind
Yeah until your message is 141 characters long and you end up with a two tweet message with the second tweet containing one word.
Twitter is a bad communications platform.
It is, but I first need to a) find out what todays t.co length is b) replace the actual urls with the length of t.co c) properly split it up taking into account 1/2 2/2 etc d) send them all out
@Charles That's also a bit problematic
or ... you could render the text into an image and post that ...
20:12
Somehow that is less evil.
@JoeWatkins lol gding it will actually be easier
I have auto-sizing font code for GD somewhere. No auto-wrapping though.
And no clickable urls
And no tags
And n copypasta
if HTTPS is enabled does it mean that no one can READ or MODIFY the data sent between the client and server ? do i need to do anything on the PHP side ?
There are some proxies that can read/change the data
Mostly in corp environments
20:15
@someone As long as you do certificate validation and there's nobody listening...
Yeah, local trusted certs will break expectations. It'll still be encrypted, but "authorized" MitM is still a thing.
The most sane we can do at the PHP level is just do certificate verification whenever possible and practical.
@Charles let assume that there is a bad guy sniffing the data the ISP guy for example ?
Well, unless that bad guy has installed the correct cert chain on the user's computer and is impersonating a CA, then he won't be able to do jack squat.
@someone They should in theory only see the ip and domain
I'm thinking about buying this linksys wireless router. is there a better/cheaper one out there? this one seems a good quality/price thing
The CPU in the WRT54GL is embarassingly old and low-powered.
buffalotech.com/products/wireless - click on the DD-WRT tab, and buy one of these if you can.
20:19
So it's meaningless to encrypt the data before sending it to the server if i'm already using HTTPS
Asus makes a few that are OSS-friendly as well.
@Charles You can use a HTTP client that supports HPKP.
nice. thanks fotalinks :)
@someone If your goal is to protect the data only during transit, then yes, there's no need to do additional crypto of the data over SSL/TLS.
And restrict the number of CA root certificates you trust.
20:20
@JoeWatkins fixed
(I think)
yay
!!lick
@JoeWatkins That's sticky.
\o/
@AnmolRaghuvanshiVersion2.0 At least buy me a drink first.
Why dod people use random UUID generators when assigning IDs that don't have to be 'secret'?
Can't you just use incremental assignment?
What if you don't (want to) have a means to generate an incremental value?
Or what if that means is stupid?
20:23
sure, you could also mail a copy of all your data to anyone who asks for it ...
so why assign 's3Ei9F' instead of whatever the last id was, let's say '000A1', then you could use '000A2'
@user2800382 As long as you have an atomic counter and don't want to leak the number of records you have (your usage), that's fine.
What happens if your data storage is highly distributed and you can't guarantee that your sequence generator will produce a unique value across all nodes?
@user2800382 Secret is different from unpredictable. The point of a UID is to avoid collision, not to preserve a secret.
UUIDs are better for some cases.
20:24
@user2800382 That's not a uuid
Yes avoiding collision is important. But don't you then risk duplicate ID generation?
!!wiki uuid
A universally unique identifier (UUID) is an identifier standard used in software construction. A UUID is simply a 128-bit value. The meaning of each bit is defined by any of several variants. For human-readable display, many systems use a canonical format using hexadecimal text with inserted hyphen characters. For example: de305d54-75b4-431b-adb2-eb6b9e546014 The intent of UUIDs is to enable distributed systems to uniquely identify information without significant central coordination. In this context the word unique should be taken to mean "practically unique" rather than "guaranteed unique"....
The likelihood of creating dupe UUIDs is ... tiny. UUIDs are very large numbers.
Yeha, 128 bit space. You aren't going to see a dupe UUID in the wild.
Man that's weird. So not even a huge application like Google drive eventually runs into a collision?
20:26
For a version 4 UUID, no, because it takes the a NIC's MAC address from the machine, along with a deterministic psuedorandom function seeded by a microsecond scale timestamp that assures there can't be duplicates for about a century.
A universally unique identifier (UUID) is an identifier standard used in software construction. A UUID is simply a 128-bit value. The meaning of each bit is defined by any of several variants. For human-readable display, many systems use a canonical format using hexadecimal text with inserted hyphen characters. For example: de305d54-75b4-431b-adb2-eb6b9e546014 The intent of UUIDs is to enable distributed systems to uniquely identify information without significant central coordination. In this context the word unique should be taken to mean "practically unique" rather than "guaranteed unique"....
v4 UUIDs aren't the MAC ones.
v1 UUIDs are the MAC ones.
can we get @Jeeves to link to onebox a section from a wiki entry ?
Ahh, why am I thinking that v4 was the one that gives away the creator's identity, then? Will have to look that up...
> In other words, only after generating 1 billion UUIDs every second for the next 100 years, the probability of creating just one duplicate would be about 50%
20:28
(Quite possible that I'm just conflating different versions of unrelated software... might just have IPv4 stuck in my head. )
Anyways, if you can guarantee atomicity, then auto increment works. If there are ever any sort of race conditions, or any non-authoritative sources of unique IDs, then UUIDs are more likely to ensure uniqueness.
UUIDs also offer more consistent cross-platform behavior than database autoinc. The nuances of autoinc in SQLite, MySQL, and Postgres are all wildly different. Some databases don't offer autoinc at all.
The sacrifice then becomes the size of the field - either 128 bits, or however many characters it is.
If you're using SQL, chances are that you'll end up storing the characters.
Of course, if you're paranoid, you can just add more bits and make sure you're using a suitable source of entropy. Disk space is cheap.
Things get problematic there for things like InnoDB, which stores data based on the primary key... if your PK is all over the place, it's gonna end up writing all over the place. I'm not sure if they've fixed this problem, it's been a while....
well ... disk space is cheap but cache space is still very very limited ...
From the GUID article, "In the OSF-specified algorithm for generating new (V1) GUIDs, the user's network card MAC address is used as a base for the last group of GUID digits, which means, for example, that a document can be tracked back to the computer that created it. This privacy hole was used when locating the creator of the Melissa virus." -- this is what you were thinking of, right @Ghedipunk?
20:35
uuids also give you an id to use without relying on your persistence layer, which can be handy
Thanks, everyone!
Yep, that's what I was thinking about. Didn't know about them tracking the creator of the Melissa virus with it, though. And yeah, thinking back, the last time I had to care deeply about UUIDs, v4 was the standard, which is probably where I got mixed up in which version did which.
posted on April 05, 2016 by bwoebi

amphp/aerys-session v0.1.3

For the more cryptographically inclined: security.stackexchange.com/questions/119573/…
@MadaraUchiha Off the cuff, I'd think that you should be able to ask a person for their public key through some other medium. Using WhatsApp, you have to trust them to not be doing an MITM attack unless you explicitly verified the public key.
20:50
@Ghedipunk Those are my thoughts too
But then, what's the point of providing me with the QR code or the 60 digit number?
To provide a false sense of security?
hmm.. I marked a question dupe and it's accepted as duplicate of the question I suggested as well, but it says "disputed"
@Ekin that just means (at least) one person somewhere out there disagreed with the flag, don't worry about it
alright
I'm paranoid enough that I wouldn't trust someone's public key unless I either talked to them in person or they had a keybase.io entry that was more exhaustively filled out than mine is, so yeah, I wouldn't trust end-to-end encryption verifications from the system itself anyways...
in JavaScript, 2 mins ago, by copy
@MadaraUchiha I think the QR code or 60 digit number is what needs to be verified using a secure external channel. for example by scanning the other user's phone in person or checking the number on his wobsite
Hmm, that makes sense
21:00
@MadaraUchiha the only way you can tell that your connection is being tampered is by checking the pubkeys each time after having verified the secureness of the original once
@bwoebi Well, you have a lot of trust to begin with
And I'm fairly sure that this ETE solution is aimed at the general population that will never bother checking keys to begin with
@MadaraUchiha Also, what exactly does it aim to guarantee? privacy (not readble) or authenticity (not writeable) or both?
@bwoebi I'm not sure.
Can't have privacy without authentication...
I guess it's basically like Whatsapp being the sole certificate authority
@Ghedipunk You can write the protocol in a way that nobody except the targeted recipient will be able to read your data, but you still are able to inject fake data in between
(decryption with private key, encrypt with a pubkey)
That's basically what's happening in tls too
21:07
True... I'm thinking that ETE means both sides encrypt and sign all messages, so you can verify the sender against their public key. If you omit the signing, then yeah, there's no guarantee of authenticity.
example would be: the initial secret (e.g. a pubkey of the client) gets encrypted by the client with the public key and server has to reply with data encrypted by pubkey of client
(though you don't use a pubkey but DH in reality, but that's another story...)
Although my understanding of TLS is that it creates one time key pairs for both ends once it verifies the server's key against a CA...
@Ghedipunk yes, it does, in a way.
the point is about exchanging these key pairs
But yes, in a typical HTTPS exchange, there's no authentication of the client against a fixed cert, the connection only had a DH key exchange after the first handshake... The client can verify the authenticity of the server, but the server can only authenticate that the client still has the key it negotiated during the DH exchange, and there's no way to prove there's no MITM attack from the server's point of view..
Naming things; what goes in between the others for xxx:
Boring
xxx
Mildly interesting
Very interesting
Captivating
21:24
droll?
@Danack what's the context for this?
As fun as Algebra II?
@Ghedipunk nope - urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=droll - means amusing.
@JoeWatkins i've made that if statement in zend_vm_def.h for "Final Properties" and your example gives me now such result
```
➜ php-final-properties git:(final-properties) ✗ sapi/cli/php -n -d error_reporting=E_ALL -d zend_extension=opcache.so -d opcache.enable_cli=On test.php
object(Foo)#1 (1) {
["bar"]=>
int(10)
}

Warning: Cannot change final property: Foo::$bar which has already defined value in /home/mbrzuchalski/Workspace/php-final-properties/test.php on line 10
object(Foo)#1 (1) {
["bar"]=>
21:26
@PaulCrovella for my local php user group, no-one ever gives any feed back about the talks that are given each month. We have been trying to use joined.in - so instead we're going to enter the, approximately, 2nd century and use paper for people to fill in at the end of the meetup.
The questions are:
How was this talks difficulty level for you personally
  Far too easy
  Too easy
  Just right
  A bit hard
  Way too hard
How do you rate the speaker's delivery of the talk?
  Dissapointing
  Needs some polish
  Fine
  Good
  Amazing
How interesting did you find the topic of the talk
  Boring
  xxx
  Mildly interesting
  Very interesting
  Captivating
@Danack make sure you balance the options.. e.g. 2 negative, 1 neutral, 2 positive.. else you're more likely to get skewed results
Knowing people being people - hardly anyone apart from the total aspergers folk (waves hello) are going to tick 'boring' - so there needs to be another option that implies boring, but doesn't sound too harsh.
Maybe 'nothing new' ?
maybe just 'unexciting' ?
@Ekin I think I'd like to separate how people felt about the talk from the content of the talk......as you can have interesting stuff presented by bad speakers, and then the problem lies with the speaker, not with the organiser who thought the topic sounded interesting.
right
21:33
....I need to insert "I only came for the free pizza and beer" somewhere in the options...
then you'll never get real feedback from anyone who thinks they're funny
I dunno......so few people would give honest feedback of "this free talk was boring" so having the entry be: `How interesting did you find the topic of the talk?
I'm glad there was free pizza
Nothing new
Mildly interesting
Very interesting
Captivating`
would probably give a decent distribution.....not that many people are going to say "pizza" when they've found the talk interesting .... maybe...
don't you know how interesting the topic itself was by attendance?
No - we always have at least 2 talks, sometimes 3. And there is alway pizza.
But more seriously - some of the talks have been......not good.
Both from a presentation standpoint, and from a "why are you telling me this over the course of 25 minutes, when I could just google and read the info in 5 minutes" point of view.
Do you actually need a self-reported rating system? Could you have someone towards the front of the room look out at the audience and gauge interest and engagement, perhaps noting people who either look completely lost for follow up or who are completely disengaged to volunteer them to give the next talk?
I mean, if they're playing Angry Birds, they obviously know everything about the topic already, and would be excellent presenters, right? ;-)
21:42
knowing something is an entirely different thing than knowing how to teach something
@Ghedipunk You can't tell the difference between people who are completely focused because the find the talk insightful, and those who are having to concentrate completely to understand what the hell the speaker is talking about.
Also, observer bias.
Bah, all these biases. Would be much easier if humans had completely logical, efficiently programmed minds. :P
I don't like that idea of a world.
Then again, if humans were logical, we wouldn't be able to mock Laravel users, because they wouldn't exist...
Anyone aware of a reliable websocket server for PHP ?
21:48
!!package amphp aerys
[ amphp/aerys ] A non-blocking HTTP/Websocket server
I know of a couple... I wrote one, but am in the middle of rewriting it, so until then I'm suggesting Aerys.
Aerys sounds good thank you
is it buggy ?
@FlorianMargaine ?
@PeeHaa on aerys' readme
So?
@bwoebi like I care
@PeeHaa funny when someone is asking for "reliable" :)
@FlorianMargaine Looks like phpunit is broken
@FlorianMargaine because the last build with actual code changes works
@FlorianMargaine :-)
21:51
@bwoebi cough where's the lock file....?
@someone No, Aerys is not buggy. That test failure is an issue with the server doing the testing.
@Danack I usually don't add lock files for libs…
That's what they are for
good
(And for me, with my inflated ego and all, to suggest a server that someone else has written, when I'm far above them on Google search results, you know it's gotta be good...)
21:53
Jul 29 '14 at 11:33, by Danack
>Committing the composer.lock file is generally a good practice for projects and can also be used for libraries for several reasons:
>Your project is kept in a known good state
>All developers operate on the same code-base
>Tests do not suddenly fail because of changes in one of its dependencies.
@Danack they should fail if deps changes
but phpunit is … phpunit.
@Danack ugh, 2014 was 2 years ago
Deps should not change @bwoebi
/steps out of the room before anyone points out all of my failing tests....
hehe
21:55
Hehehe at least you have tests
Jeeves is atill based on unixorns and a lot of faith
if a lib uses fuzzy versions in its composer config then committing the lock would just be sticking your head in the sand
if shit breaks in a dependency that your lib claims it can rely on, its tests should fail
@FlorianMargaine yeah, previously it used phpunit 5.2.12 and now it uses 5.3.0 which makes it fail…
Everybody loves semver until they try to specify what happens in the edge-cases; then everybody hates semver and also everybody else.
@seldo There are no edge cases. Semver was created perfect like JSON or the human eye!
Also performance drastically degraded with phpunit 5.3
Something like that was bound to happen
22:34
travis-ci.org/amphp/aerys/jobs/121012684#L322 - lol, segfault on master :-D
I think Dmitry tried too much an broke everything :-D
oh, Dmitry fixed that one, but the build is too old
lol
/me adds allow_failures
/me vows to add IRC slash commands to his WS based chat when he gets around to writing it... one of these years...
pretty sure it used to have /me here
Wes
Wes
22:53
mggmeigrnng
And now shut up @FlorianMargaine :-P
@bwoebi feel free to put [] list() to internals at some point, just ping me when you do
@Andrea shall I?
@bwoebi sure, why not
Shall I ping you before or after sending?
22:57
after
also, ideally use the RFC title on the page
for consistency's sake :p
@Andrea For consistency's sake, I'd have to not use it ... as we're consistently inconsistent ;-P
@bwoebi hah
hey
23:42
@Andrea decided to do that tomorrow morning

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