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11:00 AM
 
@Abe I use a time element, because the HTML room people would shout at me otherwise
<time datetime="2015-09-27T18:47:42Z" is="time-ago" title="Sep 27, 2015, 8:47 PM GMT+2">Sep 27, 2015</time>
And that gets converted in this specific case to a n x ago text \o/
 
it's funny because the right way to do things is actually easier
 
@Andrea Enlighten me
 
storing the user's timezone on the server is extra effort :p
 
ah yes
Thought about that for a moment, but meh :)
^ pun not intended
 
11:02 AM
:D
 
11:38 AM
moin
 
\o/ @DaveRandom
 
morning DaveRandom :)
 
It's alive! buahahahahaa!!!
8
 
I missed you dude <3
 
actually I'm still absent for today and tomorrow but I at least have 'net back so thought I'd drop by and say hey :-)
@PeeHaa Not as much as I missed you babe
4
 
Abe
11:41 AM
o/
 
You're doing ok @DaveRandom?
 
No net? Have you been moving :o?
 
@PeeHaa yeh, really good, much better in fact
bbiab, bit busy for today
l8r
 
Glad to hear it
I will give you a call somewhere this week
latert
 
@DaveRandom mornings
 
user895378
11:49 AM
@DaveRandom o/
 
@DaveRandom :) Welcome back
 
@bwoebi looks like Xinchen Hui was quicker ^^ git.php.net/…
ty anyway
 
@PeeHaa Sure, anyone with a php.net account can use the PhpStorm open source project license... but remember that you're only allowed to use it to write OS software. ;)
 
Remi just discovered that phpdbg's code coverage is moar awesome than xdebug blog.remirepo.net/post/2015/11/09/…
 
12:13 PM
@salathe Are you sure? I thought you were actually allowed to use it for anything
 
@marcio I know :-(
github.com/amphp/aerys/commit/… @rdlowrey … hehehehe :-D
@marcio NOIIIICE :-D
@marcio but it uses more memory though…
It's basically speed at the cost of memory… but it's worth it.
 
who cares? if you're running a massive test suite you want it to go fast :)
exactly
 
@Andrea Times are changed and we're changed within these? [The use of the passive is a bit weird… somewhat.]
I'm scared by the amount of logic going on there in xdebug at run-time…
@marcio well, someone put that up to reddit :>
 
@Peehaa - I concur with salathe because I checked this myself directly with JetBrains, OSS license only allows its use for OSS development
 
@MarkBaker I have no idea how these things work… but they can't verify that
 
12:33 PM
It's not verifiable, it requires honesty
But all OSS devs are inherently honest
 
obviously.
 
Hehe
 
The license does allow you to work with multiple OSS projects though, not just the one that you register to get the OSS license
So you can be honest in multiples of OSS
 
I don't git push -f after a few hours ;-)
 
12:42 PM
anyone else here reads RSS of github commits?
 
nope
 
I frequently spot more mistakes while scrolling the feed than when I'm actively reviewing pull requests ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
lol
 
is there any particular reason why you fq certain function calls? github.com/amphp/aerys/commit/… and others you don't github.com/amphp/aerys/commit/… ?
 
@marcio it's marginally faster… But I especially fq is_* and strlen calls to have them compiled down to direct opcodes. (ZEND_TYPE and ZEND_STRLEN)
 
12:51 PM
<3 this package it just.. works!
 
@SergeyTelshevsky a direct port from java AFAIK
 
doesn't make it worse!
 
@DaveRandom DICK
I bloody called your office to make sure you were alive! And not even a text message or e-mail back. That's it. We're through.
 
@Jimbo wait…
he's a living being?
 
@bwoebi He is, and he's got a lovely pony-tail
 
12:54 PM
oh!
 
@bwoebi I think calling its office is a metaphor
 
user895378
@bwoebi what is the ipv6_v6only thing?
 
@rdlowrey to have IPv6 addresses not cross with the IPv4 addresses
because otherwise we get binding issues
 
user895378
Can you explain a bit more what those binding issues are?
 
@rdlowrey port already in use…?
 
user895378
1:00 PM
Which is the correct result
 
@rdlowrey … depending on the defaults and configurations of your OS.
 
^ that
 
user895378
Oh, so it basically enables the IPV6_V6ONLY flag?
 
@rdlowrey Yes
… What did you expect?
 
user895378
Just wanted clarification is all :)
 
user895378
1:03 PM
Thanks for adding that stream option +1
 
It was needed, so I added it :-)
@rdlowrey I'm still stuck on that Amp issue with the reactor and shutdown funcs… still not sure…
 
user895378
I dunno ... I'm not sure how necessary it is to error if tick() is called when the reactor is already running
 
@rdlowrey yeah, I'm not sure…
 
PhpStorm 10.0

License ID: xxxxxxxxxx
Licensed to: PHP
License Restriction: For non-commercial open source development only
Fallback version: 10.0
\o/
 
I love "for non-commercial use" software. It's like selling cars that you can only drive "for work and school"
 
1:11 PM
It's ok I pinky sweared to only use it for oss
 
:D
 
@Machavity Selling? Giving away.
 
1:30 PM
Hi guys, "Across pagination selected checkbox should be checked using datatable in php" . I am looking for the solution for that problem. i find so many links regarding this but didnt got right solution. could any suggest me how to achieve this. Thanks
 
@Andrea oh, that even is an expression… nice.
 
@PeeHaa Of course it's only for open source software, silly.
 
@rdlowrey Is there still anything that needs to be done in Aerys itself which isn't already in the issues list?
 
1:49 PM
@Machavity it's weird given open-source is not necessarily non-commercial
I wonder if JetBrains would use this in advertising material. "PHPStorm: used by PHP's own development team!"
 
@Andrea it's mostly to mean "we're letting you use it for free as long as it's for free stuff, if you can pay, pay for it"
 
@Andrea Something tells me someone would object to that
 
lol
Zend
 
@FlorianMargaine I think we all get why they do it, it's just questionable if they can enforce it. If I write a novel using MS Office Home and Student, am I violating the TOS?
 
@Machavity what am I missing
@Machavity unquestionably. Enforcing that might be hard though
 
1:57 PM
hi
i have a SFTP host name from someone, and he gave me also an RSA fingerprint key like this j82i34j82348
 
@Andrea Just making a Zend joke. Zend Studio seems to be the red-headed stepchild of IDEs
 
how do i connect to this sftp, do i need to generate this rsa key to some .ppk file or so ?
no one?
 
@Andrea I'm just not a fan of software trying to dictate how/when/where you can use it. It's sometimes silly
 
@NikiC nope
 
oh it's not Rogue Wave Studio yet
 
user895378
2:02 PM
@bwoebi The main thing we need to do is just add as much test coverage as possible
 
at first glance I'm not sure what I think of it
 
@rdlowrey I look at code and wonder… wtf how do I test that?!
 
If it's not testable, it's because it's designed poorly :-P
 
I've written some ugly tests in my day (testing code with DB interaction is always fun) but I'm glad I wrote that ugly code when someone new comes in and breaks something it tested
 
@ircmaxell It's testable, just some things… like the Bootstrapper fire everything up, and how do I test that nicely… what would I assert etc.
I can test it, I just don't know what to test for…
@ircmaxell Like the file (rightfully) has a few private methods, which are all called in a big public function. How do I test every part of it is working fine instead of the "big mess" … test private methods? Is that fine?
 
2:10 PM
@Machavity ah I mis-guessed which tweet you were replying to, I get it :)
 
The only things I definitely don't know how to test is these which involve two processes… but that's not the important majority of things needing tests.
 
@LeviMorrison IIRC when I got my previous oauthlib license lusitanian told my I was allowed to use it for non oss too
 
@ircmaxell that makes sense I guess, we have ?? in regular assignment
 
morning all
 
Jo joe
 
2:14 PM
posted on November 09, 2015 by nlecointre

/* by SplasH */

 
@ircmaxell so basically a conversion to an IS_FETCH + COALESCE internally… yeah, sounds fine to me
 
@bwoebi test privates by testing the public API. If you can't test every permutation that way, then that's good enough
 
@PeeHaa Nah, I'm in the same boat with you
Hiding or compressing parameters for the sake of bypassing an interface restriction seems really sketchy
 
Yeah my thoughts exactly
 
2:20 PM
Adapter would seem like the best fit
 
Exactly
 
@Sean No.....they would still be forcing a single pattern onto two inherently different things. The only thing that is sane is to have multiple level dispatch, so as to avoid trying to make things fit in a single pattern.
 
@Danack I assume you still disagree with OP?
 
OP is a ...
 
Also morning mr ackroyd
 
2:24 PM
wrong person.
 
That solution is beyond me, as I don't understand what that means, but I'm all open for better ways! :p
 
I will write an example once coffee has kicked in...
 
Have you ever embraced the, slightly misspelt, nature of your name and fancy dressed as a ghostbuster?
 
Damn. I would pay good money fo dat
 
2:28 PM
Or placed a cone on your head and spoken in a staccato fashion?
 
I have been invited on stage during a blue brothers tribute band. Shame I can't sing really....
 
:P
 
@MarkBaker ping
 
Hi Joe
How's things on the South Coast?
 
Cold and windy.
 
2:39 PM
going well ...
0
Q: PHP Workers not working in parallel

OndrejPittlI've got a problem: Worker threads seem to work serially. This is a very simple example just for a demonstration a problem. I initialize my worker threads and run them. It should work in parallel however the result looks like it was processed serially. PHP 5.6.12, Windows OS, Apache server DBW...

I feel like you confused the OP there, have you used pthreads ?
 
That's the one I tried to ping you about on Saturday
 
ah I missed it, was out all weekend, my bad ...
I just found it a few minutes ago ...
 
"was out all weekend, my bad ..." - you're allowed days off....
 
the guy hasn't included complete code, the problem doesn't match the code whatever ... he's probably doing something wrong, but if it were a binary problem pthreads module would not load in windows ...
 
@PeeHaa no, you're not the only one
 
2:42 PM
@ircmaxell concrete example where I struggle: github.com/amphp/aerys/blob/master/lib/Bootstrapper.php#L72 builds a VhostContainer… which is injected into Server. I can't get the container back to dissect it. The only way is starting the server and actually try connecting to itself to see whether it bound to the expected port. … I wanted to test the unit of the Bootstrapper and not actually test the server. What now? Private property access allowed?
 
I might have confused him, judging by your comment.... only used pthreads on nix, and then only a while ago.... I guess I misinterpreted the Windows requirements from the PHP Docs, thought you needed too install pthread-w32 separately
 
the windows build system packages it for me
he's definitely doing something wrong, I see apache mentioned ... I'll see what he posts in the edit ...
 
@bwoebi that's not testable, because it needs a few more layers of abstraction in there. That method is doing way too much
extract out the responsibilities
then provide a facade to wire things together into a single boot() method
 
afk, school run ... lataz
 
is it…? I could split it in even more private methods… but they're then all private still…
 
2:48 PM
no, not private methods
different objects
you're building a bunch of different responsibilities into that class
 
@ircmaxell It's just one responsibility… bootstrapping…?
 
but it's not
you're also configuring objects, you're acting like a builder for several different objects
not to mention other responsibilities
 
"It's just one responsibility…executing the program".
@Sean Well, that example turned into a novel /cc @PeeHaa
 
3:05 PM
@Danack Oh, sweet. I appreciate it though!
 
Ship it
> Although you could theoretically come up with an abstracted interface, that would almost certainly be horrible
^ that so much
 
yes. I really need to ship my "not a framework" framework....
 
No stress. You only promised it last month. There is still a lot of time to keep saying that ;-)
 
Nov 18 '13 at 14:07, by rdlowrey
My goal is "public before christmas"
It's a tradition.
 
inb4 @Danack drunk somewhere on christmas not having released it at all :P
 
3:11 PM
@salathe Just out of morbid curiosity, what the heck was that person on internals complaining about? "I'm a bit uncomfortable seeing this on the mail list."
 
@ircmaxell so… you're suggesting I'm putting something into public API which shouldn't really be public API?
@Danack it just took him 1.7 years…
@ircmaxell basically you're suggesting that I make some responsibilities public… like, I guess, having a public Vhost builder, which shouldn't be a generic public API at all.
 
nvm … lxr is your friend
 
yeah...it appears not to. Trial and error is my friend.
 
@Andrea allow_null for return values has no meaning
@ircmaxell awww
I was sure you'd know what's up!
 
> list($a, list($b=1, $c=2)) = [1]; // a = 1, b = 1, c = 2
 
3:31 PM
 
this sentence is correct? "Please stop talking nonsense"
 
Hi guys, I want to know if there is a (holy) place where people are actually good in magento knowledge. We have some good guys on so, but sad statement, I asked 6 questions, and i got 1 problem solved ( big honor to this guy! :) )
i did tried magento.stackexchange, but it is worse actually...
 
is there any way to access fpm_conf_dump from outside C?
 
@Gordon -t or maybe -t -t
 
@NikiC ELI5, pls?
uuuh
I get it
ZOMG!°°!
thank you
@NikiC that is undocumented behavior, isnt it?
 
3:45 PM
no idea
 
I was going to say /usr/sbin/php-fpm -t -t also......
and that code.....
 
awesome. that will save me some much work
 
@NicolasD if you do find somewhere, maybe let me know? That question comes up occasionally, and we have no advice to give.
 
This regex is driving me nuts. How can I allow only one single alpha character, if the match starts with -, and only more if starts with -- ?
(--|-)(\w+)[\s]+(.*?)(?=\s+--|$)
I can't just put [A-Za-z] in the group, because I need the alpha chars in its own group after whitespace
 
4:01 PM
Thinking maybe that a positive lookbehind might be beneficial there?
 
You'd need both positive lookbehind as well as a negative look ahead there, yea.
 
Thanks. Now I know what to look for
ty
 
Also, you should consider that \w includes 0-9 and underscore, not just letters.
 
Oh, I totally missed that.. Thanks man. Not so good with regexp ^_^
 
4:07 PM
Base character classes are actually PCRE.
 
What do you mean, character classes are pcre?
 
0
A: Another PHP login handler

Hassan AlthafLets begin with your style. 1. Naming. As per the unofficial PHP standards constructed by PHP majors, you should name your classes in StudlyCaps. i.e. for usersession you'd name it UserSession. Moreover, for properties and methods naming, you should use camelCase. i.e. for $is_logged should ...

 
Base character classes
 
Oh yes, I see. \w \s \d
yes
 
4:12 PM
> The POSIX definition of a "character class" differs from that of PCRE. Simple bracket expressions to match a set of explicit characters are supported in the form of PCRE character classes but POSIX collating elements, character classes and character equivalents are not supported. Supplying an expression with a character class that both starts and ends with :, . or = characters to PCRE is interpreted as an attempt to use one of these unsupported features and causes a compilation error.
And yes, a base character class like \w and \s is different from character class.
There are quite a few differences and in PHP even PCRE is slightly different from Perl.
> "I had a problem so I used regex. Now I have two problems"
@PeterJensen ^
 
Lol yes.
 
I see. Fixed it: (--|-)([a-zA-Z]+)[\s]+(.*?)(?=\s+--|$)
Just need to implement the negative lookahead
 
ThW
@PeterJensen Do you have examples of what you're trying to match?
 
Yes, for instance:
message -u root --test hello there
 
4:18 PM
Ahh, you're trying to parse command line arguments!
 
It does work fine with --, but problems arise when I want it to match -x in the same regex. It's just a lot nicer with a single regex
Yes, kind of. But it's a special project i'm on, that involves building a terminal-like interface, so there's some special requirements, like matching after --xxx until the next --[A-Za-z]+/-[A-Za-z] or EOL
so users wont have to enclose values in quotes
 
ThW
You can use an alternative match regex101.com/r/zS4iZ2/1
 
@PeterJensen Is this in PHP? Because you know PHP has getopt right?
 
evenin'
 
Yeah it's in PHP, but that would require users to write input like:
message -u root --test="foo bar"
 
4:25 PM
@PeterJensen Write it where, exactly?
 
It's a terminal-like interface built with javascript. So it's just a normal web app.
 
I just noticed another problem with this regex, if input is written like this:
message -u root -message Hello there, you should--check this out
 
@PeterJensen But you're doing the parsing in PHP, right?
 
@Leigh yeah sorry... I was kinda... drunk
 
4:27 PM
@Sherif Yep
 
<--- Waits for the shoe to drop
 
/me wishes I'd remember to stop saying shit when I'm unable to speak in chat
 
@PeterJensen So why not just take advantage of PHP's getopt?
 
There it is
 
How would I be able to do that if it parses everything without quotes like separate arguments?
 
4:36 PM
What do you mean? You want it to behave like a normal Unix command line would, right?
 
No thats the problem. I don't think users would be able to figure out that values should be wrapped in ", I'm using regex to get the value out and put the quotes for them
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier hehe happens to the best of us. Well mostly me, but you get the point :P
 
@PeterJensen Then how would you be able to tell the difference between cmd --foo "bar -z" and cmd --foo bar -z?
 
Tokenizer is handling that
oh
 
A tokenizer is going to decipher human intent?
 
4:41 PM
No lol, didnt see the -z
 
I mean, my point is if the user doesn't understand the interface, why are you providing them with an interface they don't understand? Just makes for poor UX. Why not instead provide them with a better interface that they will be able to understand and use easily rather than hack the bad interface and make it do all kinds of dubious magic?
 
Well, that's why I wanted it to parse until -[a-z].. Not sure if I could do it in any other way
 
Yes, but even if you do you still can't help the user that's breaking your parsing rules because they don't understand them.
Again, still bad interface.
 
Not sure if you mean the whole terminal-like thing, or just the way I'm going to handle input
I would be fine with users having to put quotes around input, if I could check if they haven't and output an error
 
I'm saying there's a reason why you need to enclose strings in quotes on the command line, because otherwise they're seen as multiple arguments. You're trying to break that rule because you're saying the user won't understand how to do that.
So by definition you are breaking the constraints of the interface.
Either you give the user something they can understand or you force them to use the thing that works. Doesn't make a lot of sense to break the interface in order to help the user. You still end up hurting the user, just in a worse, less obvious, way.
@PeterJensen Right, so then back to "why not take advantage of getopt"?
It already does what you want it to do, but you get it for free.
 
4:48 PM
@ircmaxell only one issue left when I decide to extract buildVhost() … where to put it… don't want to put it into Host. Also, putting into Vhost isn't very right… don't want to attach random factory functions to it. Guess it'll be a standalone function then.
 
I see. I have already thought about it, but well
I'd have to be able to tell the users to put quotes when they don't
Yeah, I would use that if I were to parse the input like normal cli input
 
Huh?
"parse the input like normal cli input"?
Not sure what you're saying there.
 
Yes, the way it's supposed to be parsed
like:
foo --bar="foo bar"
 
o.0
 
@Danack sure, we will make a club of php Magento developers :) it is sad that this community isnt enough effective.
 
4:50 PM
?
 
It's completely lost on me what it is you're trying to say. I'm just going to go with "did you try using getopt and it did something you didn't want it to do?"
 
@Sherif Never mind then. How would you then give the user an error if he specified an --option without putting quotes around the option value?
 
@PeterJensen You can't really. The best you can do is guess, but you can't figure out the difference between someone that made an unintentional mistake and someone that made a deliberate one either.
All you can do is explain how to use your software and then give the user errors that are meaningful like "you didn't supply --option"
Unfortunately the whole "we think you tried to do this but instead it looks like you did this" magicwizardryvoodoo doesn't work.
 
@PeterJensen assuming I understood minimally and you want to get the position of something using unix like bash scripting, maybe this can help you? stackoverflow.com/a/5032641/576767
 
When you make a syntax error PHP doesn't really know what you meant to do. It just knows it can't parse your code. You can try to give as much useful info as possible, but you're never going to decipher human intent with code.
 
4:57 PM
Hmm, this project is causing a lot of unexpected problems.
I guess I'll have to go with getopt, and put some notes in the help command.
 
@DaveRandom Where have you been hiding?
 
Trust me, you can't fix stupid.
 
But again, all of this begs the question, if your users aren't familiar with a command line interface, why are you providing them with one?
 
Little opinion question... My web app uses data read from a DB. All the data has to be loaded on launch, so there's no need for AJAX. How would you load that data? Include a php-generated JS file to the page?
 
5:00 PM
I don't know who my endusers would be. That's the problem. I don't know if the users would be familiar with a unix terminal
 
You don't know who you're targeting?
Who are you building this for?
Who's your target audience?
 
It's going to be a general discussion forum, like an old BBS terminal forum, if you've seen any of those
 
So you're targeting people from 1981?
 
Lol
got me
 
You want to provide a nostalgic interface?
 
5:03 PM
nice ^^
 
Yes, kind of. The interface is up and running. The only problem is the input handling thing :-)
It's green on black. Much hax, very matrix!
 
I mean this sounds very niche so I really wouldn't be overly concerned with providing such explicit error information here. Anyone wanting to use such a tool would more than likely already be somewhat familiar with a command line interface. The one's who aren't will eventually learn.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Woah, it's not often I see another Québécois on SO :)
 
Focus on getting it working first and then eventually you'll find ways to make it better.
 
@JacqueGoupil We do seem to be somewhat disregarding of so :p
 
5:05 PM
Actually I thought it was working until now when I just noticed all these problems in parsing. Like when people put --x in the middle of a string. Wonder why I didn't think of that earlier.
 
@PeterJensen I think you're underestimating the scope of your problem. You say that lightly as if you've just built a car and are just missing the dangling airfreshener from the rearview mirror. That's a key component of your interface.
To clarify, when I say interface, here, I'm not strictly referring to the "User Interface".
 
I know it's important. I just didn't think of it, but I wont try to bend the "rules" of the interface. It's more complicated than one might think :-)
Anyway, thanks man. Appreciate it
 
@PeterJensen According to The Mythical Man Month "The pervasiveness of optimism among programmers deserves more than a flip analysis."
Or in other, more colorful, words "The bearing of a child takes nine months, no matter how many women are assigned."
 
Yeah. I mean, I knew it wasn't a good think trying to "hack" the way the input was supposed to be handled. Not sure how to put it, english isn't my first language.
 
Yes, we all start off with an ideal design, perfectly succinct in our minds or on paper. Until we try to actually materialize concept into code and then we are fraught with disappointment :)
 
5:17 PM
Definitely. The idea can be good when it's in the head, and fall to the ground when tried out :P
 
@NikiC what? zend_verify_internal_return_type checks it
 
I've not completely given up yet though. What if I simply don't parse --options and arguments with no - identifier? lol
Never mind. Not going to do it :-)
@Sherif Haha, to be sure users understand how to write spaced input, I could require the user to pass "Helo there" as an option to some command, and grant access to the site if they pass that test :D
 
Why man? Software is about making people's lives easier, not harder.
 
If they can't pass that simple test, they will have a hard time using the site. It's beautiful actually, I'm doing the user a favor by making him do himself a favor. Almost poetic.
@Sherif Also, if the user already knows how to do it, it's a very small annoyance to him. Like a captcha.
 
5:33 PM
So essentially what you're saying is want to annoy as many users as possible?
Sounds like a great way to build a user base.
 
Are you serious? I can't tell.
Have you ever used a captcha in any of your projects?
 
aren't you a user of stuff @PeterJensen ?
don't you hate those annoying human test things ...
 
@JoeWatkins Yeah, I do. Yet I do know why captchas are needed, and the consequences of not having a captcha outweighs the small annoyance it is.
 
Captchas are a way to prevent automated bots from causing harm to your system. What you're doing has nothing to do with preventing harm.
 
what are you doing ?
 
5:44 PM
what is the name of that website for recording a photo of searching in the google?
 
is this the thing from earlier, where you want to parse command line arguments ?
 
@Andrea ah
 
Captchas are used for preventing automation, like spam bots. Ok, let me rephrase it then:
Haha, to be sure users <are not spam bots>, I could require the user to pass "<random str 1> <random str2>" as an option to <captcha> command, and grant access to the site if they pass that test :D
Problem solved.
 
I'm confused, what does the command line and commands and options have to do with a website ?
 
5:47 PM
my head hurts ...
 
int age = 25;
cout << "age = " << age << '\n'; // more efficient
cout << "age = " << age << "\n";
O.o
Sometimes SO...
 
I would be surprised if that was true for any modern compiler…
(or even older compiler…)
 
I thought single quotes couldn't be used to denote special characters
doesn't double quotes need be used for strings (and special characters)?
 
> In a program with perhaps thousands of these types of lines, I'd like to save that fraction of CPU time if it exists
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.gif
 
Guys, sorry for being a bit offtopic, but what would be the proper way to issue a mysql SELECT with an arithmetic expression in LIKE? I.e. SELECT * FROM whatever WHERE something LIKE 100+1
 
5:55 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier AFAIK single is a char and double is a char array list thingy
 
meaning a special character is actually.. one special character ?
 
Anonymous
yes and no and maybe but never say never -- because PHP
 
nice edits :p - but was thinking about c++
> cout << "age = " << age << '\n'; // more efficient
 

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