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7:00 PM
@ircmaxell what exactly? on 5.5 you mean?
 
I compute variable lifetime in the graph operation, then insert free commands after the lifetime is up. So I can ignore for stack-allocated variables, but free a heap allocated variable just after I don't need it anymore
static inline reckistring * recki_if_test(reckistring * var1, int *validReturn) {
	reckistring * var11;
	reckistring * var10;
	zend_bool var9;
	zend_bool var8;
	long var6;
	reckistring * var4;
	reckistring * var3;
	reckistring * var2;
	var2 = recki_string_init("test", 4, 0);
	var10 = recki_string_init("ing", 3, 0);
	var3 = recki_string_alloc(var1->len + var2->len, 0);
	memcpy(var3->val, var1->val, var1->len);
	memcpy(var3->val + var1->len, var2->val, var2->len);
	var3->val[var3->len] = '\0';
	if (var4 != NULL) {
 
@NikiC Well, maybe in languages where you need to specifically denote pointers, it's not so good. In languages where the reference passing is handled implicitly on variables, I think it's more readable.
 
@ircmaxell (woah… that's hard to read when labels are indented too… please don't indent them next time...) … but isn't first if (var4 != NULL) not depending on uninitialized values?
 
@bwoebi it is, I need to add an initializer for pointer values
 
7:07 PM
@ircmaxell you're not releasing var2, why?
 
a bug
ah, because it's a constant, so I'm not treating that like a variable in the graph, easy fix
 
seems to just affect the literal strings…
yep
 
So... I need to manually call a std::strings destructor and I am getting:
> error: identifier 'string' in object destruction expression does not name a type
After some searching, it appears to be a compiler bug.
 
fixed on local copy
 
I hate compiler bugs :(
 
7:09 PM
@ircmaxell I assume gcc is able to optimize everything redundant out here (some zend_bools etc.)?
 
@bwoebi exactly, and the redundant NULL checks
 
yep
 
fix pushed
@bwoebi and that's precisely why I'm not trying to generate efficient code. It's easier for me to do this, and GCC can take care of it pretty easily as well (especially at higher optimization levels)
 
@ircmaxell Well, anyway, if you'd try efficient code, you'd probably try to insert another run after that … which basically is useless as gcc does it for you…
 
another run?
also, I pushed an experimental command line:
bin/compile_pecl compile --optimize module_name file1.php file2.php file3.php
which will generate a module_name.so file in the current working directory, which is your compiled extension :-D
Woah, when did Gordon's blog go back up? blog.gordon-oheim.biz/…
 
7:25 PM
@AndreaFaulds Yes, please! :) It seems like most of the internals discussion was in favor of exceptions.
 
Ooh was going to prod you on IRC @ircmaxell but seeing as you're here... :D how likely is it to smooth talk a inbox invite out of you :D
 
Is anyone aware of a concerted effort to produce a pseudo/implementation of an "HTTP Object Model"?
 
a what?
 
Stas is upsetting me
 
Does anyone know of a tool to measure 'hotness' of a struct or class property?
 
7:32 PM
Some sort of ontological reference for modelling the HTTP pipeline in languages that support the necessary features
 
@DanLugg PSR Http Message?
 
@AndreaFaulds Not PHP exclusive, in general.
 
@LeviMorrison The difference is negligible at best, and depending on usage scenario you could write less code with exceptions: gist.github.com/theodorejb/1a8ecc2e7474fe29dbc3
 
@DanLugg I'm actually working on a similar effort for PHP. Though I haven't had the time to write up a decent RFC for it just yet.
 
7:33 PM
I mean, the W3 RFCs are fine as far as the abstract is concerned, but has there ever been a production of interfaces and relations to form the ontology, which could be implemented near directly? As in ... like, pseudocode?
 
My intention is to due away with superglobal variables entirely and have a unified interface for handling the HttpRequest/Response as extensible objects.
 
@Sherif How would it differ from PSR Http Message?
 
@TheodoreBrown The point was that if you use an exception by default, but want to wrap it so that you have it return null instead, you have to do a try/catch for a single function call. That is not what you tested.
 
@Sherif Well, yea. That's good. But it's been done ever-so-slightly-differently everywhere.
 
@AndreaFaulds I'm particularly annoyed with Zeev, who argued so vehemently against requiring 2/3 majorities on all votes, and now tries to come up with some reason to force a 2/3 vote here, because he doesn't like it.
 
7:36 PM
@AndreaFaulds If you did as I suggested and made it require 2/3 vote he'd be less annoying.
 
@NikiC Yes, I don't like that. I'm also irritated that people (OK, just stats) seem to think that opcode = language change.
 
@AndreaFaulds I have no idea what PSR Http Message is. I've never looked at it. However, my intention is to make it possible to unify the way PHP handles the HTTP request. For example, php.net/55815
 
@LeviMorrison Was that your suggestion? Maybe I misunderstood it.
 
Every single RFC that targets only 50% majority always has a discussion about whether it is truly worth of 50%, which is somewhat ambiguous anyway.
 
7:37 PM
Therefore, to make things easier I suggest RFC authors always require 2/3 whether it needs it by our "official" rules.
 
@LeviMorrison I don't find any of the language change rules convincing here
It's a set of three functions. It's not really a language change
 
@AndreaFaulds That links me to a page that 404s
 
@AndreaFaulds But because you targeted 50% someone will bring it up and make a case that it really needs 2/3, whether right or wrong.
 
@Sherif It's not a 404, fix your browser.
 
It's much simpler to just require 2/3 vote. It's also better, because we have a more unified voting body.
 
7:38 PM
@AndreaFaulds shrug I doubt it's my browser. php-fig.org/psr/psr-7
 
And to be honest, if you think your RFC will pass with 50% but not 2/3 that should be alarming to you as an author.
 
@AndreaFaulds take a deep breath, he's not bad
@NikiC then say that
 
@Sherif Ah, that specific page doesn't exist yet
@ircmaxell No, but his logic is driving me insane :p
 
@NikiC Simple solution, as I already mentioned: always require 2/3 vote.
 
Then what am I supposed to learn by reading that? lol
 
7:39 PM
I can document that every recent RFC which has targeted 50% has had it called into question.
That's noise that PHP doesn't need.
 
Not every, actually.
I don't think there was any dispute on intdiv() for instance.
I'm not sure if there was on Closure::call() either. (But I may be wrong)
 
Okay, maybe one
But nearly every RFC has it called into question
 
No, only controversial RFCs.
Unsurprisingly, people only care about 2/3 when it's convenient to them.
 
Additionally, almost every RFC which passed with 50% would have also passed 2/3. We have very few in the between.
 
user895378
@Sherif I would give exactly zero creedence to anything in that Http Message PSR document, for the record.
 
7:41 PM
wow, those new threads are like they are actively trying to go against the message I was trying to say :-D
 
To me, this is a simple decision: it's not worth the pain to have the rules about 50% and 2/3. Just make it always 2/3 so nobody has to ever talk about it again.
 
user895378
@LeviMorrison agree.
 
@rdlowrey I'm not so reductive. I give everyone a fair chance to at least say their piece.
 
user895378
Ambiguity is problematic.
 
I don't like 2/3 votes as they make the hurdle quite high
 
user895378
7:42 PM
@Sherif Oh, I'm trying to save you the time. They've said their piece and in this case it's harmful to PHP :)
 
That's a good thing, Andrea.
 
Every No vote counts twice as much as every Yes vote
 
@AndreaFaulds if 2/3 can't agree that doing something is a good idea, then it shouldn't be done
 
@ircmaxell Maybe.
 
@LeviMorrison I'm okay with that. As an actual requirement in the voting RFC. Not okay with people trying to force things that are clearly 50% votes according to the current voting RFC to be a 2/3 votes just because they don't like them.
 
user895378
7:42 PM
People who aren't experts in an area trying to dictate what other people should do in said area.
 
@NikiC yes, that is fubar
 
And especially not okay with people who are against doing 2/3 votes in general, but still bitch around every time we have a 50% vote
 
@rdlowrey Well, saying your piece doesn't necessarily mean I have to agree with you in order to gain something. Surely there is a little bit of good in everything. I try to take the good and leave the bad.
 
call him out on it...
 
Please do call them out on it
 
7:44 PM
farking hell...
 
If you do, do it for both Stas and Zeev together
 
Okay, I'm going to shoot off an email to Internals saying I am going to research the actual voting results on RFCs.
 
@LeviMorrison They mostly pass by >2/3
 
Yes, I've done this unofficially before ^^
 
@AndreaFaulds Stas is doing it in what he believes is the best interest of the project. Zeev is doing it for what's in his personal best interest. So...
 
7:44 PM
I checked for some of them before ^^
@ircmaxell I'm not sure. They're both arguing on similar odd technicalities
 
@ircmaxell "personal best interest" and "what I believe is the best for the project" very often coincide
 
But if I can document everything for the past two years (or maybe more; we'll see how it goes) that's good data for changing policies, no matter what we change too.
 
Also what @NikiC said
 
@NikiC not really what I meant
 
@LeviMorrison Maybe you could extract the voting data and make it available in a usable format?
 
7:46 PM
In fact, like with all politics, whether you think it's the former or the latter often depends on your own views ;)
 
So we can use it for other analysis as well ;)
 
@NikiC Could be a good idea, too.
I am not knowledgable about formats that would be good though.
Do you have suggestions on where I should start looking?
 
yay to segfaulting PHP
at the end of a 10 minute process
that you weren't sure if it was going to work anyway
 
user895378
@NikiC This is the problem in basically every area of human political interaction :)
 
user895378
The hard part is creating incentive structures and procedures that tease out the best outcome for the whole and not the individual ...
 
user895378
7:50 PM
I've been meaning to gather data on the RFC votes for forever.
 
@rdlowrey Not necessarily right. Actually, it's quite likely that the reverse is true.
 
user895378
@NikiC Example?
 
Dear Internals,

I have several motivating factors to gather historical data on RFCs, and am going to start with the "acceptance vote" required and the actual result of the vote. What other types of data do you think would be valuable to gather?

Levi Morrison
 
I.e. the problem with politics is that people don't vote what is best for them and instead try to think about what would be best for everyone
Which basically means that politics is communistic, rather than capitalistic.
 
@NikiC well, since when do people really know what's best for them
 
user895378
7:52 PM
@NikiC I've never once voted for what would be best for everyone. Only what would be best for me :)
 
user895378
Perhaps my perspective is an outlier, but I doubt it.
 
I try to vote what I think is best for everyone, which usually aligns with what is best for me.
 
 php src/zend_bench.php
sh: hippy-c: command not found
Compiling simple . . . 3.18257
Compiling simplecall . . . 0.16352
Compiling hallo . . . 0.04026
Compiling simpleucall . . . 0.44085
Compiling simpleudcall . . . 0.14468
Compiling hallo2 . . . 0.00409
Compiling mandel . . . 75.04050
Compiling mandel_typed . . . 70.02028
Compiling mandel2 . . . 30.60918
Compiling mandel2_typed . . . 26.11270
Compiling ack . . . 0.15068
Compiling ackermann . . . 0.01491
Compiling ary . . . 0.01166
Compiling ary2 . . . 0.01989
and the number on the right is "number of seconds spent at that stage"
 
However, writing RFCs that are valuable to more than just me is something I heavily work towards.
 
user895378
The problem arises when you have people who think they know what's best for everyone but they actually don't. That's when you get things like foobar fig PSRs.
 
7:56 PM
@NikiC > You should never be able to submit anything that even gets close to an overflow.
^^ Not anymore at least ;-)
 
I guess I'll make up some JSON "schema" and store voting stuff that way.
 
The FIG needs to first figure out what it is exactly in the first place ...
 
in cases like this, what happens to the question?
 
user895378
@iroegbu "off-topic because ..." and then choose the one about "typographical error or can no longer be reproduced"
 
okay, thanks
 
user895378
8:10 PM
(That's what I did, anyway. Seemed appropriate to me. Like everything, though, I could be wrong)
 
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x0000000000875e6c in zval_scan ()
Missing separate debuginfos, use: debuginfo-install glibc-2.12-1.132.el6.x86_64 libxml2-2.7.6-14.el6.x86_64 nss-softokn-freebl-3.14.3-9.el6.x86_64 zlib-1.2.3-29.el6.x86_64
(gdb) bt
#0  0x0000000000875e6c in zval_scan ()
#1  0x0000000000876344 in zobj_scan ()
#2  0x0000000000876409 in gc_scan_roots ()
#3  0x0000000000876daa in gc_collect_cycles ()
yay
 
So, I faked some benchmarks, and the bigint is faster than master by a very tiny margin (probably within error) for non-bigint integer operations!
 
Fast by 1 picosecond is still faster
You just need to have 1 billion servers to save yourself 1 second per iteration :)
 
arg
 
@Sherif I'm pretty sure it's not faster, though. It's not a difference big enough for a benchmark to spot, if there is a difference.
Any apparent gains are within the margin of error.
 
8:20 PM
</sarcasm>
 
@ircmaxell oh, no. A gc bug.
 
and it survived a recompile
 
There just has to be some badge for this dumpert.nl/mediabase/6622359/51d875d7/auto_vs_hek.html
 
it's running on PHP_5_6 head, and same BT on both
recompiling without debug now, to see if that changes anything
 
Also, for 100x more iterations... bigints actually are consistently slightly slower
Which is odd, actually, there's no reason they should be given this is for non-bigint ops
Might be getting rid of fast_increment that's the issue
 
user895378
8:30 PM
@AndreaFaulds I like this.
 
user895378
I propose that all references to personal benchmarks in room 11 should now be spoken in terms of "faking" them.
 
user895378
You do not run benchmarks. You do not execute benchmarks.
 
Exactly
 
user895378
All benchmarks are faked. So let it be written. So let it be done.
 
I don't bother bench marking anymore. I just make up numbers I think are reasonable and publish them.
 
8:31 PM
to fake a benchmark (verb): to test the performance of code and publish the results
 
ususually with mt_rand(0.0000001, 0.999999)
 
user895378
@Sherif So you're the little gnome behind the scenes of every post on reddit?
 
You're familiar with my work.
 
@PeeHaa Man some things need explaining.
 
Oh man oh man
So
For an empty for loop, the bigint branch is consistently faster than master FOR NON-BIGINT INTEGERS
 
user895378
8:33 PM
@Sherif lol I knew it!
 
oa-res-26-28:php-src ajf$ ./master-php ../bigints/benchmark2.php
took 8.9512939453125 secs
oa-res-26-28:php-src ajf$ ./master-php ../bigints/benchmark2.php
took 8.7928400039673 secs
oa-res-26-28:php-src ajf$ ./bigint-php ../bigints/benchmark2.php
took 7.9682040214539 secs
oa-res-26-28:php-src ajf$ ./bigint-php ../bigints/benchmark2.php
took 7.79234790802 secs
oa-res-26-28:php-src ajf$ ./master-php ../bigints/benchmark2.php
took 9.1150989532471 secs
oa-res-26-28:php-src ajf$ ./master-php ../bigints/benchmark2.php
<?php

$start = microtime(true);

for ($i = 0; $i < 100000000; $i++) {}

$end = microtime(true);

echo "took ", $end - $start, " secs\n";
 
@AndreaFaulds what do you mean with empty for loop? for (;;) {}?
... okay, with counter
 
Right
 
$end = mt_rand();
 
See, I thought the increment changes were what made the more complex benchmark slower. NOPE.
 
8:34 PM
// done!
 
@ircmaxell :sigh: indeed
 
Walking Dead better start again soon. It's been too long.
 
16:05 <tedivm_> http://blog.tedivm.com/rants/2014/10/a-walkthrough-of-psr-6-caching/
16:21 <ppetermann> what i'm thinking: its taking too long. less talking more action.
16:24 <tedivm_> you're not going to see a disagreement from me about that
 
I swear you just follow me around
you're like a creepy stalker dude
 
8:39 PM
I am?
 
perhaps.
 
The reason I feel you're more concerned about raising drama is that you never actually talk to me, but you have no problem taking things I say out of context or use them to stir things up.
If you wanted to help on the caching thing you could have easily talked to us
even now you're not talking to us, you're copying what we say and spreading it to other places purely for drama
 
If I would have talked to you, as you yourself have said, all you would have done is told me how I was wrong
 
@tedivm not sure, but I wouldn't call it drama.
 
that's not a discussion
 
8:41 PM
Telling people they're wrong is everyone's job on the Internet :)
5
 
I guess we'll never know "if" that would have happened because you literally never tried.
 
@all you're ALL wrong!
 
anyways, i'll stop bothering everyone else in here. I just thought I'd comment on what's going on here
 
OK, I'm done trolling now.
@tedivm Just out of curiosity, what is the end goal here?
 
also, @tedivm the post does read like the entire thing is based on the notion that "people want to store null as a valid value". Not saying it is, but it really feels that everything after that in the post is built off that axiom...
 
8:45 PM
@tedivm I've read your article, but I'm not sure what you're even ranting against here. It reads for me a bit like a giant irony. (Aka making jokes of the people needing null as value etc.)
 
I'll follow up with something to make that more clear. It certainly is a part of it, but more examples of why this is important would be a good thing
giant irony?
 
Not sure if you're serious or just imitating the "other side"...
 
No, it was serious.
 
@tedivm I'm not going to bother having any preconceived notions, but I am genuinely interested to know what your end goal is with this :)
 
@bwoebi A non-debug build still segfaulted. I'm going to try to get debug info somehow on this very broken machine to step through it
 
8:47 PM
Sherif, we've had a lot of back and forth over what model to choice for the caching PSR. I'm trying to advocate for the Pool/Item model rather than the Driver model
 
@tedivm Okay, I had read it as if you'd make a joke of the people promoting PSR-6 by imitating their issues "But I need here, but I need there, but, ... :-("... Seems I got your message completely wrong…
 
@tedivm Ahh, OK. That makes sense :)
 
i'll do a parody of the php fig people later, as that does kind of sound fun
 
@tedivm for the record, I'm not advocating for a "driver" model either. I'm advocating for an abstraction
 
Can you make an actual proposal?
like a set of interfaces that you'd advocate for?
 
8:49 PM
@tedivm Since I'm not familiar with PSR stuff can I ask what are the key differences between the two models?
 
Hey everyone!
 
@tedivm he did
 
user895378
The onus is on people proposing standards to demonstrate that they're right for the community ... not the other way around ...
 
^^ Burden of proof.
 
Would be this correct chat to ask about how to setup a test site?
 
user895378
8:50 PM
I don't like these "standards" dictating implementation details that may or may not be best for everyone ...
4
 
One class for everything or splitting it into two, one to represent the cache system as a whole and the other to represent the entrys in the cache
 
woah
who said one class for everything?
one thin interface, which gets presented to consumers
 
@tedivm I think blog.ircmaxell.com/2014/10/an-open-letter-to-php-fig.html is his real and serious proposal...
 
behind the scenes, more significant structures can be built
 
ircmaxwell, he asked the difference between driver and pool/item
 
8:51 PM
The complexities and multiple use cases of the current caching proposal clearly calls for multiple interfaces.
 
An interface makes a lot of sense to me. Having one master cache class, not so much.
 
behind the scenes are out of scope for the reasons people just mentioned- they don't want implementation dictated to them
 
@Sherif even me? :(
 
This standard only defines interfaces
 
God class FTW!
 
8:52 PM
@salathe Even you what?
 
@salathe Especially you.
 
@DanLugg :P
 
;-)
 
@tedivm the standard defines the implementation, because it says "must not" "must" "should", etc. An interface does not define implementation details (or shouldn't). but that's not what 6 is doing right now, hence the debate
 
also, that blog post isn't a proposal- if it is it only includes that one adapter class. A proposal would be something we could actually run with and test out- throw a repo with some interfaces up that you think should be standardized here
 
8:53 PM
 
You say that a lot
 
@bwoebi also, a non-debug build is over 2.5 times faster at compilation (meaning Recki's compilation) than a debug build. I did not expect that
 
no, that's the point. He doesn't want implementations, only interfaces everyone agrees on.
 
@tedivm a from @ircmaxell means: you didn't get his point.
 
user895378
Nothing should be "standardized" in userland except interfaces. Reference implementations are fine, but dictating how people write code is a pointless exercise in self-importance.
 
8:54 PM
Sorry to ask this, but ... why does there have to be a standard for this? There are obviously too many ways to implement it and one size doesn't fit all.
 
Where are you people assuming there are things besides interfaces being standardized here?
 
user895378
Interop is about APIs, not implementations.
 
user895378
Because if an API does too much it is enforcing implementation.
 
user image
3
^^ Room 11 Group Photo
 
user895378
Just like the HTTP message PSR is enforcing a stream implementation detail with no relationship whatsoever to the HTTP protocol.
 
8:56 PM
@ircmaxell Not sure, but isn't non-debug usually (without i/o) 2-3 times faster?
 
:)
 
1 message moved to bin
perhaps, but I didn't expect it.... I need to re-run benchmarks
 
@tedivm So, speaking strictly from experience, having one cache class or one central object that controls caching becomes almost unwieldy to maintain. For example, we have multiple levels of cache, not just multiple cache pools (e.g. Production cache, Development cache, Backup Production cache, Hot cache, 3rd Party shared/solitary cache). Also we rely many differing cache stores (e.g. Redis, Memcache, APC, etc...).
So I tried the one-class-rules-them-all route and it just sucked. Things broke more quickly than they could be fixed. A unified interface though, that works out kinda nicely.
 
user895378
@bwoebi FWIW, non-debug has always been significantly faster than debug builds in the benchmarks I've faked.
 
@tedivm So that libraries can be shared between applications without having to re-write them to use the applications specific version of a cache or httpmessage interface.
 
8:57 PM
Sherif, I really don't think we're disagreeing
 
@DanLugg don't make me photoshop faces on…
 
@salathe Mine was in there :-P
 
@salathe a developer also good with photoshop?
yer a weird fella
 
Yeah, on today's photo ;)
 
@tedivm all we want is that the PSRs define the lowest common denominator. And that's in this case Anthonys interface.
 
8:58 PM
@FlorianMargaine I'm waaaaay weirder than a developer with photoshop skills.
 
user895378
@bwoebi I thought frameworks were about the lowest common denominator lol </trolling>
 
@bwoebi I wouldn't phrase it like that
 
@bwoebi I would rather not have even more hungarian notation interfaces in composer libraries... :(
I mean that's what they will do to ircmaxell's nice interfaces
 
@ircmaxell Hmm?
 
9:00 PM
The lowest common denominator is usually the thing that people end up hating the most. Like magic quotes, or register globals, for example.
 
@Sherif Oh, sure, people will hate that interface because it's too simple for their needs. Not arguing. But it's the only true thing in this case.
 
Those weren't lowest common denominators. Those were "seemed like a good idea at the time"
 
@bwoebi it's not proposed because it's lowest common. It's proposed because it's useful without being overly complex
 
... for the lowest common denominator
 
@Sherif those weren't LCD at all
 
9:02 PM
@ircmaxell They were solutions for the lowest common denominator.
 
@ircmaxell That's true, but at the same time it is the LCD of all Caching interfaces.
 
Let me put it that way.
 
@Sherif for the lowest common denominator. Not the lowest common denominator solution
 
@ircmaxell Well, what's lower than escaping all quotes with \ for every piece of input sent to PHP?
 
one applies LCD to the person, one's to the code
 
9:03 PM
What's lower than making all inputs available in the global space?
The lowest common denominator in SQLi at the time, in my opinion, was people forgetting to escape inputs before sending them to the database.
 
@AndreaFaulds did you already compute Grahams number with your bigints branch?
 
Am I wrong?
 
I do not think they "forgot it"
 
@Sherif you're applying "LCD" to a different group than @bwoebi was
 
@bwoebi That'd cause an out-of-memory error ;)
 
9:06 PM
@ircmaxell What's the other group?
 
@AndreaFaulds ini_set("memory_limit", -1);
 
@bwoebi was talking about the LCD interface, meaning distilling out the root behavior, and going with that. You're talking about making functionality for the LCD person (author of code)
 
@bwoebi The PHP process will exhaust system memory then.
 
@ircmaxell Was he? That wasn't clear to me.
 
@Sherif yes, I was.
 
9:07 PM
Anyway, I think the more complex the problem the more simple the solution should be :)
Simple as in easy to debug, not simple as in not thought-worthy.
 
eih
 
@AndreaFaulds * adds infinite memory to his system * Oh, wait… the exponent is bigger than 2^64 :-(
 
I need me some infinity DIMMs
 
@bwoebi the number of digits is still too big to be represented by the number of sub-atomic particles in the universe
 
Where I get those suckers?
 
9:11 PM
@ircmaxell if the base is big enough, no issue.
 
:-P
base ∞-1
 
;-)
then we just need one single digit
 
except we can't encode that digit in unicode, because there aren't any codepages that big
 
You need a fraction, don't you?
 
It'll just be impossible to represent digit ^^ … yeah
 
9:13 PM
or maybe I'm thinking of ∞- ∞
 
no
 
I'm thinking of something in string theory I can't recall
 
Anyway, it's a bourbon o'clock
 
@ircmaxell I wonder if one could have enough constellations of all the atoms in the universe to have a different representation of all the numbers until Grahams number.
 
9:16 PM
@bwoebi ohhh, interesting. my gut says yes, but then again, no matter how big you think Graham's number is, it's much bigger than that...
that sounds like a question for what-if.xkcd
go ahead and submit it :-)
 
@ircmaxell I had that same thought :-D
 
You know, great minds think alike... Then again, fools rarely differ...
 
Great minds are unique :P
 
user895378
@Sherif best time of day.
 
Fuck Yeah!
 
9:27 PM
anyone here have experience with wordpress development?
 
probably
but it's covered under PTSD
 
I love it
 
2 days ago, by webarto
PTSD DD @Jimbo :D
:)
 
=] @redshift you should ask your question if you have one
 
then again, PTSD isn't something to joke about
(also, my "I love it" was to something else)
 
9:31 PM
@ircmaxell I assumed so. Actually watching this music video a month ago kinda draw it home for me =/
 
oh =[
hehe'
So what made wp so popular? wp success can not be denied. The ease of install + themes + plugins and saturated marked developer marked?
 
.. then again, I am quite shallow
 
I had a very mild taste of it, but nothing compared to what many go through
 
well, I cannot actually imagine. I somehow have avoided any major issue up till now.
 
@ircmaxell That's because great minds usually are a bit lot foolish too.
 
9:40 PM
@ircmaxell The login is broken on his blog - I was going to ask him to fix it here....maybe delete your above (er, and then this).
ah - I'll just tweet him.
"This is like claiming PSR-0 and PSR-4 were for composer, that PSR-3 simply standardized monolog,"
TRUTH DETECTED
 
@ircmaxell I turned out OK-ish :D
 
... or that there were no popular style guides like PSR-2 of all things.
 
@RonniSkansing Probably the possibility that average Joe can have a custom-ish website that sort of works, easily, and that developers can make money easier (install, customize, invoice)...
 
@webarto makes it possible for on devs to make money also... (install, install plugin/theme, bill)
 
Yeah, entire circle...
Vast majority of people don't care about the quality of code but the looks...
Also function, here and there.
What's the point of having 128GB USB pen flash drive if write speed is 5MBs?
 
9:56 PM
I can impress people with its shiny 128GB'ness (not mentioning the write speed)
Which could be enough to convined everybody that I got a real nice usb..
Takes the customer closer to the sale
 
@webarto I'd carry my whole music collection to work with it.
 
It's nice but far from usable... WD portable drive writes at about 150, which is nice.
@Narf Yes, but it would take an hour to copy it.
No, not hour...
 
@webarto The point is not to copy it, I can do that over the net :)
 

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