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1:00 PM
@Leigh I actually like those when interspersed in HTML. Makes it more readable than <?php } ?>.
 
@deceze I don't like PHP / HTML spaghetti
 
morning
 
ello
 
morning
@Leigh It's hardly any worse than any other option for HTML templates.
 
@NikiC did you go somewhere? Or is "morning" just when you get up? :)
 
1:02 PM
<?php foreach ($users as $user) : ?>
<li><?php echo $user['name']; ?></li>
<?php endforeach; ?>

It's hard to make this any nicer.
Hmm, missing indent for second line?
 
@Leigh "morning" is when I enter the chatroom :D
 
Hey @NikiC: you planning on going to PHPNW by any chance?
 
Hat endforeach also
*hate
 
hm i think i hate perls elsif more than endforeach in php
 
@ircmaxell Hehe
People just keep asking...
even though you know the answer :)
 
1:14 PM
@NikiC You're too shy?
You know that's easily fixed, you just need to cash in all the beers people owe you for fixing PHP for them :)
 
So I hear MySQL sucks
Any better alternatives you're aware of?
 
@Truth MySQL compatible? Or just other RDBMS
 
postgresql
 
Not necessarily mysql compatible
 
OK, well I use Percona, which is MySQL binary compatible.
 
1:23 PM
did anyone tried such things like couchdb or mongodb
 
@Leigh Not exactly what I meant, but good explanation too ;)
 
@jami How (aside from the fixed oddities) is it better than MySQL?
 
@jami they're very situational, and not really worth using for small datasets
unless perhaps, it's your only dataset, or you have lots of resources to spare
 
@Truth @Leigh yeah it really depends. For me it is the parallel queries, constraint implementation, func based indices, nested triggers, xml functions, (better) stored procedure impl.
 
@Truth well that was informative
 
1:31 PM
12 hours ago, by tereško
interesting about mysql from postgres viewpoint : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PoFIohBSM4
 
in the company i'm working for, i must use mysql.
some time that is a painful
 
@jami MySQL is what I know best, and learning new things takes time. I tried Mongo, but I really couldn't justify the resources required for the small amounts of data I wanted to store
 
there is only one reason why people use mysql: because other people use it
 
@tereško no i think thats not the only reason
 
@tereško Also, because it's the most "tutorialised"
 
1:33 PM
that would be more the reason
:)
 
@Leigh , that stems from the "others use it" reason
 
The (enterprise) support is good
Doc is good webinars are good
 
@tereško Others use Postgre, others use Oracle, I don't use them because others do
 
@jami Also, it's the one database that's available everywhere...
 
hm Oracle
 
1:34 PM
@Leigh , for how long had you used mysql, before you heard about other RDBMS ?
 
12 char table names should be enough for everybody
What does a Oracle 10g Cert cost nower day
 
@jami absltly, y do u nd mr?
 
nobody can effort this
 
@tereško In all honesty, I probably found out about other ones within a few months. But I'd already started learning MySQL, and the others "seemed to do the same things" but had less readily available documentation, community discussion, or tutorials.
And I'm talking about ~10 years ago
 
@tereško That was a very unconvincing video
A very unconvincing video
 
1:39 PM
@tereško I actually never bothered myself to research the subject
 
better than the erlang munctional video?
 
I've always used MySQL (a couple years back I would say mysql instead of sql)
 
Shouldn't your database abstraction layer 'hide' the types of problems demonstrated in that video?
 
functional programming language for men
 
@PeeHaa wtf. why does anyone even care that much? :P damn bikeshedders
 
1:42 PM
@NikiC I don't know. It seemed pretty convincing to me. The things MySQL was doing didn't make sense.
 
@MikeB No, that's not its job
While it's true that the developer's job is to validate the data
But that doesn't mean the database engine can allow itself to be sloppy
 
But isn't a DAL supposed to normalize those types of inconsistencies? Kind of like changing the LIMIT/TOP syntax depending on what you're connecting to
I'm not trying to say those aren't flaws in MySQL, just not something a PHP developer should really worry about on a day-to-day
 
@CharlesSprayberry I stopped watching after the not null nonesense
if there was anything interesting after that
 
@NikiC Well, there were plenty of queries to MySQL that I felt should have resulted in errors, not the DB just doing whatever it wants to the data.
 
in particularly I liked how he complained about mysql defaulting timestamps to 0 and postgres just doesn't allow adding them altogether
his solution was to just truncate/clear the table :D
which is obviously a very nice solution for a vid, but rather impractical in reality ;)
 
1:47 PM
@NikiC Sure, but I think the point was that MySQL shouldn't have accepted the date regardless of how you deal with the problem afterwards.
I certainly did not expect an invalid date range to cause no errors
 
@CharlesSprayberry It was the point, but I think the situation made the point rather moot
I think defaulting to 0 is a reasonable thing to do
 
@NikiC After altering an existing table to have an additional column
Yes, I agree
 
var RR=["\x6E\x65\x76\x65\x72","\x67\x6F\x6E\x6E\x61","\x67\x69\x76\x65","\x79\x6F\x75","\x75\x70\x21","\x6C\x65\x74","\x64\x6F\x77\x6E\x21","\x72\x75\x6E","\x61\x72\x6F\x75\x6E\x64","\x61\x6E\x64","\x64\x65\x73\x65\x72\x74","\x79\x6F\x75\x21","\x20","\x6A\x6F\x69\x6E"],x=[RR[0],RR[1],RR[2],RR[3],RR[4],RR[0],RR[1],RR[5],RR[3],RR[6],RR[0],RR[1],RR[7],RR[8],RR[9],RR[10],RR[11]];x[RR[13]](RR[12]);
 
But after inserting an invalid date? Not really. no.
 
^ js console friday fun
 
1:49 PM
and in any case, I think this is the kind of bashing which you usually get against PHP ;) It points to some minor quirks (which I personally never encountered). What would have been interesting to know is what high level features postgres has that mysql doesn't
 
@NikiC And sometimes the target of the bashing deserves it ;)
 
no
bashing is no solution
 
Sprayberry you suck! sorry NikiC
 
Well, I don't think anybody was bashing MySQL there
They were pointing out valid, real flaws
 
Bad choice of word
By bashing I mean meaningless complaints ;)
 
1:52 PM
@NikiC Then you will not be happy with MySQL 5.6 where they fixed that invalid default date ;)
 
As I already said, they should have rather pointed out high level features that Postgres has and MySQL doesn't
 
But they aren't meaningless. The database doing weird things with invalid data according to the constraints put on that database is a serious concern imo
 
And if they don't have any such additional features, then I won't switch ;)
@CharlesSprayberry Then we have different imo-s ;)
 
@NikiC I suppose we do :)
 
Maybe I'm just too used to PHP ;)
 
1:55 PM
A propos MySql, I just added some example DB class as a little example in this answer: stackoverflow.com/a/11580420/367456
 
@rlemon I try really hard to only suck sometimes
 
Am I the only one bothering to put the comment?
Please stop writing new code with the ancient mysql_* functions. They are no longer maintained and community has begun the deprecation process. Instead you should learn about prepared statements and use either PDO or MySQLi. If you care to learn, here is a quite good PDO-related tutorial.
8
 
@Truth Kind of yes. I gave up. They just keep coming. Like an army of zombies... It is too late, the water cannot hold, he cometh, cthulu etc
 
@NikiC the answer is no, isn' it?
 
You know what the worst kind of code is?
It it works, but you don't know why :/
@ircmaxell :D
 
2:02 PM
Why not?
 
@NikiC haha, I encounter this kind of code every day unfortunately
 
but I just figured out why it works. A badly named function confused me
 
@ircmaxell Interesting question that I probably can't answer
 
lol
 
2:09 PM
hey guys
 
quick question.. will imagecreatefromjpeg works if the url doesnt have http ?
 
would you guys use date or the datetime object to generate a calendar?
 
@Kishor try it
 
Thanks for your input ircmaxell
 
good morning, i am so glad its friday
 
2:16 PM
mornin
 
    ​var a = 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz1234567890.',
        i = 18, j = 0,
        b = [a[i++],a[++i],a[++j],a[--i-1],a[i],a[--i-1],a[++j*(j+j)],a[--i-(j+j)],a[j*j+j]].join(''),
        f = function(x,y) { switch(x){case(1):o=y;break;case(0):l=y;break;} return y; }, o,l,
        c = [a[b](i+j)[0], a[b](i++,i), f(1,a[b](--i-(++j),i-(--j))), f(0,a[b](--i-((j++)+j), (i++)-(--j+j))) ].join(''),
        e = o + l,
        d = c+Array(++j+j).join(e);

       console.log(d);
even more fun!
todays lessons: obfuscating js is a waste of time
 
hey can any1 help me out?
<?php

include "db_config.php";

$sql=mysql_query("SELECT * FROM `places`
WHERE uname='".$_GET['place_id']."'");

while($row=mysql_fetch_assoc($sql))
$output[]=$row;
print(json_encode($output));
mysql_close();

?> is this code correct?
 
@Loshi No.
 
mysql_*, no I would say it isn't
 
Bobby Tables, for starters.
 
2:22 PM
anyone use kohana
Their documentation blows for the Auth Module, what drivers does kohana ship with for auth? I'd love to use bcrypt
 
@Loshi Also:
24 mins ago, by Truth
Please stop writing new code with the ancient mysql_* functions. They are no longer maintained and community has begun the deprecation process. Instead you should learn about prepared statements and use either PDO or MySQLi. If you care to learn, here is a quite good PDO-related tutorial.
@Truth See, what did I say...?
 
sorry im really new to this... i just started with android developing and wanted to get place details of requested place_id
can you please help me with the code
@deceze
thnx alot
 
@deceze too many tutorials teaching the wrong thing, not enough saying its wrong
 
@Event_Horizon Yup. I wonder if books are any better these days?
 
@deceze can u help me? or any1?
 
2:26 PM
@Loshi Did you already read all the links you just received?
 
@deceze My guess: It doesn't matter. People are too lazy/cheap to get books when there are internetz tutorialz!!1
 
@Event_Horizon Yeah, I know. Was just wondering if anybody knew whether books were at least better in theory.
 
Anyone messing with YII is on?
 
jesus is that really how Kohana defines templates? public $template = "templatefile.php";
whatf, edit: looks like it.. thats weird.
 
2:40 PM
^ where have you seen that
 
got email from big stock photo company thanking me for imagemagick tutorial @Event_Horizon
 
<?php defined('SYSPATH') OR die('No Direct Script Access');

Class Controller_Hello extends Controller_Template
{
    public $template = 'site';

    public function action_index()
    {
        $this->template->message = 'hello, world!';
    }
}
blahhh not sure that i like Kohana thus far.. granted it seems better than CI... then again almost everything out there seems better than CI =P
 
@webarto :P
 
@webbearrto LOL
defined('SYSPATH') OR die('No Direct Script Access'); <-- Really? O_O;;
 
2:44 PM
thats what comes with it lol
its like... srsly? Like i said, CI is the same way.
 
Like, totes, srsly?!
Man, I start to like Cake again...
 
i downloaded Kohana as i need to make a application for tracking some invoices we have at my work and access is the bane of existence so i figured... perfect opportunity to learn a new framework..
 
@deceze they, they won't listen!
 
cake as in cakephp?
 
2:47 PM
posted on July 20, 2012 by Anthony Ferrara

One of the most powerful changes that PHP5 brought to the table was the ability to autoload classes. It's such a useful tool that it was the first standard the FIG group put forth. Almost every single major PHP framework and library uses an autoloader to include its classes. It always felt somewhat wrong to me to autoload in production at runtime. So I decided to give it a bit more exporation..

 
@gorelative the same
 
ZF is my buddy
 
At least it doesn't have or die('No Direct Script Access'); ;-P ;-(
 
Kohana was an abstraction of CodeIgniter initially.. which is why you see that direct script access crap.
CakePHP so far quickly browsing their documentation seems much more thorough than Kohana
 
but the horrors it has can't be spoken of :D direct access is not needed
 
2:49 PM
@webarto Yeah.
 
what happens if you try to access example.com/applicationclasses/controller/auth.php and taht line isn't there?
 
For the next project, if ($framework) $framework = ZF;. I'm currently stuck on a Cake 1.3 project though.
 
i want to learn ZF
considering i have a full copy of Zend studio , bought and paid for by my work. I hear ZF plays nice with ZStudio and ZServer
 
@gorelative What are your framework files doing in the webroot to begin with?
 
thats how it comes, don't ask me. In CI i moved app/sys folders out of webroot. No idea how to do it in Kohana.
again, just literally started poking around with Kohana about 45min ago :)
 
2:53 PM
@gorelative After seeing what you saw until now, you are seriously still poking around with it?
You have a lot of courage!
 
@Feeds Very good article @ircmaxell
 
@NikiC why not? Its just one more thing under my belt that i can say i have experience with.
 
define('APPPATH', realpath($application).DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR); index.php LoC 70
 
@gorelative Well, because it evidently sucks completely...
 
@ircmaxell Is the overhead in initial compilation + parsing? generating the opcodes for all the requires + fetching their string constants? - the autoload method has an additional function call per require, so I'd like to know where the overhead is.
 
2:56 PM
@ircmaxell I assume that all your tests were run with APC being enabled?
 
I find the results a little odd, I'd have expected autoloading to scale better with more classes, not less
 
@NikiC none were
 
@ircmaxell In that case the results aren't particularly meaningful, are they?
 
Hmmm, quick question
I have a project where it's very unlikely malicious users would try and mess with my code
 
@deceze I'm on ZF 1.1.x, there is ZF2, but it is 2.0.0... some say it is not a framework but rather set of tools... I like it except I have to use s* Doctrine...
 
3:00 PM
I need the server to be able to tell the computer's name of the connecting client
 
@NikiC although it does suck, clients still have it and its still very popular here in Arizona, and it has a potential to make a TON of money.
 
Using JavaScript to try and get that is acceptable
I've seen it done before (with an ASP.NET application), so I know it should be possible somehow
 
seems like something that'd require ie
 
@Truth I've been trying to do that, something like that, I needed any info about computer... I was aiming for MAC address, but I failed immediately :)
 
@Truth maybe when they're authenticated on the active directory?
 
3:01 PM
if it even works since ie6 is all but dead
 
@Leigh Oh, very possible
Is it possible to do with PHP?
Assuming Active Directory is indeed operating?
 
ActiveX, but then you would have to use IE :)
 
it'd be possible to get a domain name associated with the ip...aside from that, you're left with whatever the browser supports. and something tells me most browsers won't support getting the computer name
 
ome
@cHao computer name has never been included in the HTTP headers, afaik.
 
considering it's os-specific, i imagine not.
 
3:06 PM
gethostbyaddr but that doesn't work always...
 
Hi all
 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11581717/open-up-an-alert-from-clicking-button
 
Anyone doing Ruby here that is able to explain what "Symbol(s)" is? I have tried reading every post on Google and I still struggle.
 
@Dude Was that the :foo stuff?
 
@deceze Yes
 
3:14 PM
> Symbols are most obviously useful when you’re going to be reusing strings representing something else.
 
AFAIK it's an optimization. If you're using strings, it'd allocate each string individually. But symbols are just allocated once in memory and therefore lighter weight and easier to compare. If you're using it for non-changing data like array indexes, they're preferred.
 
Yes, but is that all there is to it?
That they are unique and immutable?
 
AFAIK yes.
 
So they are only a feature given to the programmer because all objects in Ruby is mutable?
Or atleast almost all
 
3:18 PM
@Dude Dunno Ruby enough to emphatically answer yes here, but probably so.
 
Ok, no problem. Just trying to understand it
 
While we're at it, what does PHP do in this case? If I write "foo"; "foo";, does it allocate two separate strings in memory?
@experts
 
any of you ever tried to set to GitLab ?
successfully ?
i want to get back to something less painful
.. like reading question stream .. anything would be better
 
@Truth well AD is just LDAP with some extra gayness, so sure, query AD :) Out of interest, does $_SERVER['REMOTE_HOST'] not have what you need?
 
stupid question: is imagick much slower than imagemagick ran through CLI
 
3:26 PM
I wouldn't think so
 
even if it is, that is probably miliseconds
(too lazy to test)
 
3:43 PM
@deceze You mean, what the real world calls constants?
 
3:57 PM
@Leigh Yes and no. One thing where Ruby's symbols differ from constants is that they don't need to be/can't be declared in advance. Ruby will simply allocate one the first time it's used, and any subsequent use of the same symbol will not allocate it again.
 
Stupid question on probability/weighted-random-numbers: If I have an array of percentages (they sum to 100), how can I randomly select an element utilizing it's value as weight in the selection?
This is what I get for leaving my brain in the office.
 
@Bracketworks Brainfart off the top of my head: allocate it as many times as it's worth, i.e. array_fill(0, $value, $value), mush all these into one array and select a random entry.
Somewhat wasteful and not very mathematical, but works... :P
 
@Bracketworks I had a similar problem before, and I forgot how I did it, but ordering by the percentages was important
 
@deceze lol, works is more important than academic viability.
 
I might have looped through, += the percentage to a base, and then break the loop when I went over
 
4:01 PM
1
Q: Should questions and answers have distinguishing icons/letters?

Event_HorizonOverview Slightly suggested in Feature Community Review Tasks for SO Question: Should questions and answers have distinguishing icons/letters? IE: While viewing a question their is either a Q or an A (or icons denoting such) above the voting buttons. Benefits: Quickly identify whats what w...

 
@Event_Horizon "There". The word is "there". ;P
 
@deceze dammit, fixing
 
Also, IE is I.e. :x
 
@deceze Suddenly, I'm confused as to what you mean.
Example array:
array(5) {
  [0]=>
  float(0.1)
  [1]=>
  float(2.3)
  [2]=>
  float(9.1)
  [3]=>
  float(13.2)
  [4]=>
  float(75.3)
}
0 has very low probability of being selected, 4 much higher.
 
how come
$n = 1;
for($i = 1; $i < 999999; $i++)
{
    if($n == 3)
    {
        $n = 0;
    }
    $n++;
}
and
for($i = 1; $i < 999999; $i++)
{
    if($i % 3 == 0);
}
 
ome
4:07 PM
@cHao not only that, but unlike the user-agent it provides unnecessary/irrelevant information at cost of privacy and potential security concerns.
 
have same speed of execution :)
 
@Bracketworks I was suggesting to fill the array like array(1, 2, 2, 10, 10, 10, 10, ..., 10, ...) (each element the number of times of its value), then select any random element. Not very easy with floats though. You should probably forget about that as a solution anyway. ^_^;;
 
@Bracketworks This is how I've done it before
$a = array(
	'one' => 50,
	'two' => 30,
	'cat' => 20
);

asort($a);

$pick = mt_rand(1,100);

$accum = 0;

foreach ($a as $key => $chance) {
	$accum += $chance;
	if ($accum > $pick) {
		echo "$pick: $key";
		break;
	}
}
 
@MikeB: "It is a progress indicator, like the one next to your accept rate." ^^
 
hey fellas
 
4:09 PM
@deceze Ah, I see now. Ok, yea good solution for some cases; this might have several thousand elements.
 
@hakre haha, looks like he's accepting questions now - up to 35% from 17
 
It does work, ignore me telling you to ignore me, I was accumulating it as I went, duh
 
@Leigh I see; yea that was my initial thought, or at least something like that
 
does anyone know why the "From" header in an email message sent from php would be replaced by something like "name@webserver.domain.com"? is this an email server config problem?
 
@Bracketworks $accum > $pick should probably be >=
 
4:11 PM
Best question today:
4
Q: Boobs operator in C/C++ code. Is it possible?

Sergey K.In Haskell there is a boobs operator: ((.) . (.)) Is there a way to make something meaningful in C/C++ with the same (or similar) syntax? I have tried operators overloading and could come up only with this code: class a {}; void operator , (a, a) {}; int main() { a o; ((o) , (o)) ...

 
2
Q: Returning a random value from array with probability proportional to it's value

Akshar Prabhu DesaiI have an array like $keywords = array('apple'=>10,'orange'=>2,'grape'=>12); I want to randomly pick one of the "Key" from the array. However the probability distribution should be such that probability of picking an element should be proportional to it's value.

@Bracketworks are you looking for this?
 
@AndyPerlitch Sounds like it, yes.
 
@webarto Yeop, I'm working on it now; strange I couldn't find it searching for weighted random numbers.
Thanks :)
 
@MikeB Well, you should always give good examples as descriptions. Looks like I have found one :)
 
usual interview question :) @Bracketworks
 
4:14 PM
@webarto Really? I've never been asked that before.
(although, frankly I haven't interviewed all that much in IT before)
 
It is like an general task, something like fizbuzz, just so they know you're not retarded :)
 
@webarto I had to do a fizzbuzz, with pen and paper
 
@webarto lol, I guess I'm half-retarded cause I was half-way to that solution.
 
don't get me wrong, has nothing to do with your skills... for example, I don't know how to play chess, and to someone, I'm retarded...
 
4:16 PM
@Bracketworks I think that solution isn't really efficient, they're not percentages to start with, and you have to loop the whole array once to calculate your max, then you have to loop it again to find your pick
 
@Leigh Thankfully, for my purposes this runs as a task, not connected to a user request. It could take 3 hours for all I care; but logically optimizing it would be nice.
It makes sense; that's all I care about for the moment.
 
I've made that code 2.5 years ago, I have it somewhere...
 
Well the question webarto linked actually wasn't very helpful
more like stating one of the many the obvious solutions
 
@Truth rov?
 
@MikeB reopen vote
 
4:21 PM
@Leigh True, it was the answer I already had in the oven. Any other solutions are welcome (I'd post as a question, but I'll end up with a on duplicate)
 
@Truth Ummm and now it is locked...
 
BoltClock strikes again!
 
@Neal It was closed, reopened, and now locked :)
 
@Bracketworks You could make a question with actual code in it ;)
 
<?php

    function weighted_random($array)
    {

        $p = 0;

        $count = count($array);
        arsort($array);

        $random = mt_rand(0, array_sum($array));

        foreach($array as $key => $value){
            $p += $value;
            if($p >= $random) return $key;
        }

        return false;
    }

$array = array(
    1 => 10,
    2 => 5,
    3 => 8,
    4 => 9,
    5 => 20
);

$x = 5000;

for($i = 0; $i < $x; $i++){
    $random = weighted_random($array);
    $results[$random] += 1;
Array ( [5] => 39.84% [3] => 15.02% [1] => 19.18% [2] => 9.32% [4] => 16.64% )
 
4:23 PM
@webarto pretty much the same as what I posted. The reverse sort is actually a good optimisation
large values first = potentially less iterations
 
haven't paid much attention to previous discussion, sorry
 
@Truth aaaand its back
Its gunna be closed again...
 
@Neal It should be closed as too localized, not as off-topic
 
@Truth I clicked too localized.. but it still got majority "off topic" ....
 
@Neal yeah
I can't it again
:(
So yeah :D
 
4:33 PM
@Truth it has a delete vote x_x
 
@Neal That's why they invented the undelv.
@Neal Also, it has 4 rovs :)
 
@Truth lol :-P
 
I reopened it :P
 
@Neal Plus, it will take many delvs to delete a question with 20 upvotes.
 
4:36 PM
I closevoted it
 
@ircmaxell I'd call it more too localized though
 
Hi I have kind of an "opinion" question ^^
 
@Spyral 42
 
can someone help me on this?
 
I'm getting into webdesign and making layouts, designs etc is fine now; I used to use django as a framework but want to use a php framework now.. Now the question I want to ask is... Is it wise to use something like drupal? Or is something like php cake better? (writing your own CMS). I'm not to happy with drupal not being based on MVC, but it does seem to let you implement CMS quick (which is the entire point, ofcourse ^^)
 
4:42 PM
Fatal error: Cannot redeclare getTotalHeights() (previously declared in /worker.php:95) in /worker.php on line 95
 
Really don't know which one to pick ^^
Can someoen with experience kinda point me the advantages of both out ^^
 
@Spyral It depends what your goal is. If you want to learn PHP by example I would stay away from Drupal
 
@ircmaxell nooo
 
@ircmaxell are the CVs about not cluttering SO with "not constructive" questions? I find that question to be very interesting, and am curious as to why it got closed os OT
 
But for webdesign, does drupal really let you free? And on the otherhand, would it take a lot of time to get a good and secure CMS up and running with phpcake?
(and would you recommend phpcake at all? :p )
 
4:44 PM
Haha boobs operator
 
Fatal error: Cannot redeclare getTotalHeights() (previously declared in /worker.php:95) in /worker.php on line 95

Why is that happening? It is the same line.
 
CakePHP is probably closer to Django.. atleast when compared to Drupal
 
@Spyral there's a large difference between "framework" and "CMS"
 
@Kishor then dont redeclare it or don't reinclude it
 
I don't know why we're even comparing cakePHP and drupal...
 
4:45 PM
@orourkek I know that's part of the question
But it's part of the question
 
CMS vs doing-it-yourself isn't really something we can answer for you
 
You say your a designer but what does that mean? Do you spend most of your time with mockups, or front-end code?
If you want to 'avoid php' than Drupal is the way to go.. if you want to rapidly develop applications using a framework I would say go with CakePHP
 
@Jami - I amnt :-/
 
If you only want to dabble in PHP I would say write plugins for Drupal
or Wordpress
@Kishor lies! :). Put a print statement or something above the function definition
 
The idea is to make websites, currently they are small for 'small' custommers, which don't ask lots of backend, so currently it's lots of photoshop and then coding front end. I don't mind coding, I like doing backend development and hope to start getting jobs which ask more backend development
 
4:47 PM
@MikeB that's the first time "go with cakePHP" has ever been said in this room
 
I'll probably go with cakePHP
but ok
IN phpframeworks :p
anything more interesting then cakePHP? ^^ I know these kind a questions sound 'dumb' but there still must be an answer to them :p
 
@orourkek I guess I'm not advocating specifically for CakePHP.. but it's the one he mentioned.. vs Drupal
My reasoning for choosing CakePHP would apply to a lot of other Frameworks
 
So you WOULD recommend another framework?
 
@Leigh It almost might be a good candidate for code-golf.
 
@Spyral That always depends on a ton of variables.. what the spec is, what the experience of the team is, future-enhancements, etc
 
4:50 PM
I'll try to give a profile of 'me' if that can help? x')
 
For me, I use Zend Framework on 9 out of 10 projects because that's what I'm comfortable with and I only accept projects where I know ZF will do the job.. someone else here might use Symfony and achieve the same exact goals
 
you're clearly quite experienced in the field ^^
 
@Bracketworks That's what I thought when I first saw it.. it's a fun code-golf-ish question
 
@Kishor pastebin code
@MikeB zf1 or zf2
 
1 for now, 2 soon :)
 
4:53 PM
@MikeB I'm quite comfy generally programming even though I don't have too much php programing experience. The web programming experience I do have is with python, in the django (MVC) framework. I don't mind diving into php though. I'd like a framework that's not to heavy for light sites but is strong enough for if I'd go bigger. But I don't think I'll be doing super big projects anytime soon.
 
@Jami - Kinda solved it myself. But not sure what was wrong lol. Just rearranged some codes. Thanks anyway Jami :)
 
Would you call zend framework 1 heavy?
 
I would
 
@MikeB ZF2 has been "soon" for a year or two
 
@Kishor diff your code to the old version. Then you know the solution next time
 
4:56 PM
sigh
 
this is why asking framework questions in here is worthless :]
 
@MikeB and this was just stupid
 
@ircmaxell a lot of s from you recently...
 
@tereško Keep reading
 
We can't stand this attitude here :)
 
4:57 PM
yes , i kept reading ,.. that's part of the problem
 
what was the issue
 
anyone know why php or a mac web server would rewrite the Return-Path header to _www@webserver.domain.com?
in an email sent from mail()
 
@AndyPerlitch becuase you miss spelled a variable or used a global constant by mistake, first things i would check
 
@tereško Lovely, I tried to stay as neutral as possible and explained my reasoning. What specifically is your issue?
 

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