« first day (222 days earlier)      last day (4951 days later) » 
00:00 - 12:0012:00 - 21:00

00:17
can someone help me here: stackoverflow.com/questions/6132427/…
00:31
@downdown: there is no such site.
Not a reliable one at least...
 
1 hour later…
02:00
I'm sorry. It is not a real message. Just testing if I can write here.
That's it. :)
 
5 hours later…
07:03
morning - guys , gals and everyone else
RPM
RPM
Good Morning
07:37
good afternoon
it's almost 4pm now haha
the "i am in different time-zone" joke get old really fast
RPM
RPM
07:51
It';s almost 3 am here
I think I may have created the ugliest URL in the world (no joke)
anyone care to see it
yeah
let's define what is ugliness
RPM
RPM
& then I str reverse on the re direct page to
Ugly as in not readable right away I guess
I thought = in a mysql statement would return true when both sides are exactly the same?
07:54
what is PyEnnQe7YYsN4iqr2uic0MOZ9k0wlsrc2%3Dyk%3Bpma%26XMR%3Dpmc%3Bpma%266672411%3DdIuks­%3Bpma%261392084228121%3Ddi%3Fp.6672411%2FswodniW%2B-%2B8%2BoidutS%2BcisuM%2BDICA%2Fetis%2Fmoc.yubtseb.www%2F%2F%3Aptth
lol
RPM
RPM
lol
why does `` username="adminf" `` match when username in row is actually "admin"
RPM
RPM
That's what the link looks like -- and then I send the &url variable to the redirect page and use str rev to reverse it a url
@Phelios
www.bestbuy.com
interesting haha
RPM
RPM
haha
It's like a cheap encrption so users dont know its an affiliate link right away
07:56
haha
Is it reliable to check $result = include 'file.php'; for the file was successfully included?
I mean, it works for me, but maybe there are some problems with it?
RPM
RPM
Why not just include the file
because filename comes from url (it's sanitized enough)
RPM
RPM
so file.php comes from a seperate url?
example.com/gallery/edit/ => /modules/gallery/edit/GalleryController.php basically
if user supplies example.com/some/broken/module the module will not exist, but user still should see some pretty 404
so i dont want to make file_exists but rather check result of the include statement
RPM
RPM
08:00
I think someone more experienced would be able to answer that
I cannot
no problem, thanks anyway :)
RPM
RPM
For sure
I'm coding up a nice piece of code
It's going to make a lot of money
there is one example using file_exists before including
by doing $result = include 'file.php';
the $result variable will get whatever file.php return
Yes I use it for including config files that make return array( ...
Now if file does not exists $result is 'false'
If file exists $result gets int(1)
Ah, i understand. There's no 'return' in my 'file.php' so it can be reliable
"The include() construct will emit a warning if it cannot find a file" though
08:10
I will disable error display on prod site and that should be the case only for wrong urls
consider putting an @?
it will suppress errors in included file also, and i prefer not to hide errors :)
yeah.. makes sense :)
anybody knows ruby here? haha
offtopic
but nobody is online there
what is ruby? :)
Ruby!!
another programming language
hi
do you guys use framework?
like CakePHP
how long do you take to learn one particular framework?
08:26
I know it's oldschool but i dont use frameworks, but got some play with Yii recently. I took some ideas from there for my personal framework.
I am still using one of my simple framework too
08:47
Good noon friends
anyone help me out this issue
0
Q: regarding wordpress to show single widget

EdvinHi, Is there any API function which display single widget anywhere in our template by passing widget id or name something. I just wanna show Tag Cloud widget alone in ma home page. front-page.php Thanks, Edvin :)

I use CakePHP ... if you are familiar with MVC you should get used to it pretty quick. I heard Yii has impressive performance speeds/performance
09:06
> didn't work for me i've got at @ sign thats effin it all up – Pete Herbert Penito 9 hours ago
got dv'ed because Pete has no clue about SimpleXml
greetings.
yo @ChristianSciberras, @Gordon
Anyone of you want to debate why [some people argue that] in javascript attaching events is better than onevent element attributes?
09:17
well, this does sort of piss me off. why doesn't PHP let people define arrays as constants?
i just had to go through some hoops to get an array out of a defined constant.
@giorrrgio - That doesn't explain anything else than wikipedia falling short of cargo cult...
@Unique_Key because an array is not constant
Apparently the "unobtrusive javascript" idea equates to "invisible javascript".
@Unique_Key: I use static arrays for this purpose
I can only say that if I examine someone else's code I'd better see what events are triggered rather than invisibly being binded :P
09:19
I've already wasted a few hours this morning trying to figure out what a friggin button is doing.
@DenissKozlovs - Exactly.
@Christian firebug?
@Gordon @giorrrgio well, i'm not sure if my method is completely wack or not, but what i did is to create a string defining the array to be parsed with parse_str, along with a function to simplify the task
@giorrrgio - Firebug won't help one bit
then call the function passing the return value to extract, so it sort of acts the way i want it
It used to help with "onclick".
09:20
@ChristianSciberras behavior should not be hardcoded to content. It's a different layer. HTML structures your document, but it doesnt define it's behavior. Basically the aame argument as not using inline styles
@Gordon - That's a general rule I agree with. But there are exceptions.
Such as adding CSS display:none to loader elements on your page.
and what does a loader element do when I parse the site with DOMDocument? Nothing
a loader element is not content. its a UI widget targeted at a special useragent
And when a user is loading the site through a slow browser?
namely a browser
or your epic CSS CDN suddenly fails?
@Gordon - And what happens when you use DOMDocument on a link with an onclick? Nothing.
09:24
exactly. and because nothing happens you dont put it there because your html should be user agent agnostic and independent of behavior
A "next" button clearly isn't content.
a next button is a hypertext control
@Gordon - That's the exact reason why major RFCs are flawed.
its a link
We try to provide a "standard" to something that one day might be something akin to a PDF document and the next day to a 3rd model of someone's dna
09:25
It doesn't change the fact that it should not be visible at initial page load, because some conditions have not been met etc.
If it were me, I'd throw HTML in the bin and start from scratch.
2
@ChristianSciberras well, do flash or silverlight.
@ChristianSciberras star'd
@Gordon - Flash is exactly what I don't want to see HTML turn into.
indeed.
and silverlight support is still shoddy, IMHO
probably will always be.
09:28
This morning I've been trying to debug why a WYSWYG button just wouldn't work.
It's one darn black box...in plain text
Mind it, there wasn't a hint of dynamic stuff (flash, PHP, nothing)
Let alone if there was any
well, i do have a question right now: the documentation doesn't say anything, but does parse_str have any kind of string delimiters aside from querystring-like ones (& and =)?
or should i just serialize?
@UniqueKey - There's also []
It's just like URI query string
i'm aware, that's what i used
a[]=1&a[]=2
oh
so what's the problem exactly?
so it's basically a typo-prone method, right?
i'd like to have better delimitation in the passed string
09:33
well, do a a|b|c and explode('|',..), no?
The & is serialized to %nn something by the way (if you had it in a string)
If you want proper serialization, I'd suggest JSON (and json_decode())
i considered that, but it's a bit more time-consuming than just doing parse_str. guess i just wish for safe results with little efforts, heh
@Unique_Key seriously guys, what you are fussing about then? first @ChristianSciberras complains about how he doesnt see why he shouldnt add event attributes and when given the reason for that he complains about how he doesnt want html to turn into flash.
that's not what i'm looking for, i'm still on the topic of getting arrays out of constants.
@ManjotSingh i miss you
@manjot me tooo
09:37
@Gordon - Because <a onclick="" is HTML.
@Gordon personally, i think flash is a conceptually sound concept, but a very poorly implemented one.
@UniqueKey - Compared to HTML it's well implemented.
like JS, in theory it's a good thing to run scripts on the client side for effects and such, but it gets out of hand fast
@ChristianSciberras so is <b> and <i> and you still shouldnt use it
@Gordon - Just because someone wants to reverse my content?
No thanks.
09:39
no, because its presentational markup
@Edvin hahhaha do you know @ManjotSingh ?
Geez it's code, not a presentation.
If you want a presentation go do latex or something
why do people have to put rules where there shouldn't be any?
@Edvin he is a hero
i personally don't care much about content/presentation separation. so far i've been developing in controlled environments, where i know which softwares people are going to use to access any given application
@ChristianSciberras it is markup. structured content. and not a presentation. thats why you dont put presentational markup in there. how stuff is supposed to look is defined with CSS. different layer
09:41
that said, i do put some effort into splitting the two when it means i can redefine the look of my sites from a central position, but i'm not the type to hunt down every single tag in my code to make it CSS-compliant.
@ChristianSciberras no rules at all? well, you can have that. Use XML and invent your own tags and rules.
@Gordon - Are you aware of the dangers behind separating these layers?
@ChristianSciberras but dont expect anything but your own applicaton to be able to make sense of that then
@ChristianSciberras there is no dangers
You're kidding?
@ChristianSciberras no, im not kidding.
09:44
ok, I dare you, go open facebook and turn off javascript before getting in.
Facebook doesnt care for HTML standards. But apart from that, FB works w\out JS as well. limited but works
then proceed to randomly deleting stylesheets
@jack wht so special to be hero ?
@Edvin he is special Man
@christ @jordon is facebook use comet ajax for wall?
@jack can you more specific?
09:47
@Christian google graceful degradation and progressive enhancement
@Gordon that's really time-consuming, though, isn't it? you basically have to take into account every possible use case for your site
@Edvin leave it it is a big story
@jack cmon man a bit clue atleast
@Unique_Key no, you dont. you just have to create a plain old hypertext document that just works. thats not difficult. And then progressively enhance and add any fancypants stuff through javascript.
@Edvin just leave it Are you PHP developer ?
09:51
@Gordon is it really that important in a controlled environment, though? or would you consider that necessary only for worldwide-access resources?
@jack yea man thts why im here
@Edvin ok good
@jack n u
?
@Edvin i am android developer
@Unique_Key whats a controlled environment?
09:54
@Gordon - Last time I was on facebook their chat crap just wouldn't start because the document got stuck loading some file and domready never fired.
Admittedly that was a few years ago.
But same scenario applies.
If people want content, there's XML for that.
@Gordon like one found in a business environment where you know what everyone is going to use as browsers and stuff, for example for an intranet
Do <menu> elements where they're due and stuff.
Not turning HTML into some pseudo-presentation XML.
@jack wow surprise man android dev in php chat room huh
@Unique_Key anything you put on the web is not a controlled environment. you got spiders, bots, screenreaders, handhelds, browsers, etc. - you can decide that you only want to target a specifc user agent but thats a decision that should be made consciously and if doing so, you should still have some graceful degradation that tells other user-agents about it
@Edvin if you don't want then i can leave :)
09:58
@jack hey no no not like that you can be anywhere its ur freedom lolz
@Gordon - Having a single HTML standard trying to be a one-off solution to screenreaders, spiders and web browsers is the major issue.
@Edvin hahhaha i am just joking
@Gordon so in a nutshell, these rules of thumb only matter when you don't know how people are going to use your site, but if it belongs to a restricted network they can be disregarded, correct?
@Unique_Key in the company I am currently working for they have managed workplaces. They have IE6 as the standard browser and their intranet is build mostly for that only. Now they want to migrate to IE8. Can you imagine the cost to upgrade all those applications that just work in IE6?
@ChristianSciberras its not an issue. the issue is people not understanding what html is for.
10:00
@Gordon i can see why that would be a problem; however, migrating them to IE8 should be a little more future-proof, as it follows web standards a bit more closely
@jack so how is ur day
People should use HTML where it's relevant.
3
@Edvin just as usual
@Edvin nice to meet you
@Edvin where are you from ?
@Unique_Key webstandards they are not upholding in their current apps because they thought it wouldnt matter if they just target IE6 only. If they had built with webstandards right from the start, they wouldnt have that much cost now.
@LA
10:01
@ChristianSciberras I starred that message because I think it should be one of the ten commandants of web dev
@jack LA
@ChristianSciberras that sentence has no meaning unless you define where its relevant
Use HTML for HTML, PHP for PHP, JavaScript for JavaScript and CSS for CSS. I don't think I've worked somewhere that actually go by that rule yet
@Greg a cake is a cake
@Gordon - HTML is for web browsers
10:02
use a spoon for spoon
@Gordon Unless it's a lie.
@Greg lol ... I use php for html, javascript, use javascript for CSS :P
@ChristianSciberras no. its not. definitely not. go the w3c site. read what it is
@Gordon spiders/bots should read sitemaps and proceed to XML versions of the content
@ChristianSciberras they do. among other things
10:03
@Gordon - News etc should use RSS and atom
@Edvin los angeles ?
@Gordon - That's the whole problem.
@Edvin lol
It's not people that cater for bots
But bots that do (cater to people).
I'm trying to make my latest project have no HTML in PHP and no PHP in HTML...
10:04
html is for structuring hypertext documents
@jack yea man n abt u?
@Gordon - Well then the definition has pretty much changed.
thats why its called Hypertext Markup Language
Anonymous
@Greg nice one....
hey all
10:05
@Edvin i m from India
@Gordon - Just look at the W3C site. Be honest, is that how websites should look like?
sup @JohnP
Anonymous
is @teresko around?
@ChristianSciberras who defines what a website "should look" like
Anonymous
@teresko was just going to ask if you roll your own php FW, or do you use something for your fast and nasty jobs?
10:06
@Gordon - People. Not W3C, nor robots. And even less, screen readers.
Anonymous
if so.... what? Checked out the SF2 / Kohana ones yesterday , just wondering if you have a particular favourite.
@jack mumbai ?
@ChristianSciberras the blind people disagree with you
@Greg Nothing much. EXCEPT I HAD A CLOSE ENCOUNTER WITH LIGHTENING TODAY!
apologies for shouting. just pumped :)
@Edvin no Ahmedabad
10:08
@jack thts nice gujarati
yup, It was scary!
How "close"?
@Gordon - Screen readers shouldn't be "Liking" images of your holiday in Hawaii :)
my hair stood on end. and I imagined I could feel the wind from it
I was actually inside the house. on one of the outer rooms. lightening struck just outside
Anonymous
@JohnP thats exactly how I felt when I heard that they were finally bringing closures to php
10:09
a plug just flew off the socket
Anonymous
@JohnP hope you were surge protected
@SkippyChalmers did you also have a moment where you fought hard to control your bladder? :P
Anonymous
@JohnP i did, funnily enough...
Anonymous
:P
yeah, none of the electronics were hit. the trip switch kicked in
Anonymous
10:10
@JohnP in all seriousness.. glad you are okay :)
What are you doing still using electronic equipment???
@Edvin yes
Anonymous
@Greg aye i know!
I wasn't using anything it was just as I had woken up! It came out of nowhere!
@ChristianSciberras screen readers should read the alt text of an image. if you then decide you want to like that, like that
10:11
It was only a few mins. about 5 lightening strikes really close and really loud. and then everything toned down. weird weather here these days
@Gordon - Wouldn't it be better if they could hear a description of the image?
@ChristianSciberras which is what the alt text contains
@Gordon - The alt is short alternative text.
@ChristianSciberras there is also a longdesc attribute
It's as useful as you seeing "Hawaii - Hotel Entrance" on a blank page.
@Gordon - I'm not saying screen readers shouldn't be accounted for.
I'm saying screen readers should be given appropriate content.
10:13
@ChristianSciberras if you put a meaningless alt description, its your fault, not htmls
the only problem with html is that people dont understand sir tims vision of how the web should work and why we need xml for that. they are taking detour after detour to achieve short term goals, tucking functionality onto html that would be better added to separate modules in their own namespace.
Geez just consider the screen reader can't care less about half of the page
@ChristianSciberras you are absolutely not making any sense
@Gordon - The markup is geared towards web browser, not screen readers.
Even if the page degrades nicely, a lot of content is simply unused.
@ChristianSciberras html is for structuring hypertext documents. it doesnt define any particular user agent as consumer
@Edvin ok now time for leave bye
10:16
That's plain wrong.
For many reasons.
that's plain right
Whether you like it or not not all user agents can work with the same content.
saying html is for browsers only is like saying php is for webforms only
I'd say "PHP is for web servers only" instead.
youre not getting it. if a user agent cannot cope with the html is the user agents fault. html is not targeted at a specific user agent. its a markup language for structuring hypertext documents. not for making fancypants websites. you can do that with it, but its not limited to that.
@ChristianSciberras ah, that must be why PHP runs on CLI as well
10:18
Yeah, PHP can also make GUI applications.
It can be made into services as well.
As well a web server in itself.
I myself have been looking into ways of making an OS with PHP.
I think you guys are going in circles -> $0.02
ignores @JohnP :)
Anyhow, my take is that HTML is overused, and most often than not, in wrong ways.
@JohnP yeah, and im not going any further in that discussion for that reason
@ChristianSciberras @Gordon You could instead be spending your time by looking at this question on Meta by an outraged user with sock puppets : meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/92759
Easy when you have a set of rules backing you up. Maybe in HTML 6 we could have <doughnut> tags as well.
10:22
@christ lolz
i fail to see how <doughnut> can be used to structure hypertext. if you want to invent random tags, use XML. That's what it's for.
Well, could be used to structure different doughnuts. Strawberry, Chocolate, sprinkled sugar
Suitable for coffee, tea etc.
Loads of combinations.
none of these are document properties
The only problem is that not everyone wants a doughnut section in their site.
But this never deterred W3C devs, did it?
the only problem is that you dont understand what a hypertext document is
10:29
@Gordon - platform-independent text-based content that could link to other documents with a markup flavour (just made it up, hope it's near to it)
and why would that have a doughnut element? have you ever seen anything that qualifies as a doughnut in a book, a letter or any similar type of document?
@Gordon - cafeteria menu?
there is paragraphs, sections, links, headlines.. stuff like that.. how does a doughnut have anything to do with that domain?
@ChristianSciberras no, still wrong. a menucard is menucard. there may be doughnuts listed on that menucard but that still is an <ul> then and not a doughnut, because doughnut are not document element
and how does progress, nav, etc have anything to do with the document?
a nav section is a container for hypermedia controls
10:35
And how does it differ from an li/ul?
semantics
an ul is an unordered generic list
a nav is a list of hypermedia controls
my point, @Gordon, is that if this is a semantics issue, there should be a standard specifically for such markup.
With these "rules", the dynamicity of javascript and css there's bound to be a load of ambiguities.
javascript and css have nothing to do with markup. stop mixing things up
if you want a dedicated cafeteria markup language, then use XML and invent that
serve it as application/vnd-cafeteria-xml
html does not have this domain of application. its for structuring hypertext documents
....which are not websites.
what is a website?
10:40
If anything, I now know that the future of the web isn't HTML not "structured documents".
websites are anything but structured.
then what are they?
a mess. :) (thanks to HTML)
so you admit that you have no arguments whatsoever
My argument is that websites shouldn't be in HTML if HTML wants to be something else entirely.
then what should they be in? you already said they shouldnt be in flash or silverlight
and again, what is website then, apart from "a mess", which has no value as a definition
10:46
I said so because flash or silverlight have some issues. Mostly because they're not plain text.
But from presentational/graphical points of view, they're quite well.
you are complaining about something you apparently have no clear concept of. if you cant explain what a website is, then how can you complain about any of the technologies involved in building them?
Websites stopped being "linked documents" ever since people started calling them "apps".
no, they didnt. most of the documents on the web are still pretty much only linked documents
they didnt magically turned into something else, just because the whatwg invented html5
it's the concept that changed
The code may still work.
Heck I can keep writing textual descriptions in <div> tags.
And you'd say it should be <article>
adding any fancy behavior via JS doesnt change that the content on those pages is still just linked documents, because behavior is not expressed with HTML
10:51
Exactly.
That's why it ain't about HTML any more.
@ChristianSciberras yes, you could create an entire document just with div tags. that would have no semantic meaning to any user agent aimed at processing HTML. it couldnt make any sense of it.
Some websites arguably have more javascript than HTML.
The concept of HTML changed.
A program is not a linked document.
it doesnt matter how much js a page has. its a different layer
You know what? I give up trying to explain this. I honestly can't believe you see HTML as a one-off solution to everything.
i never said its a one off solution to everything. i just explained to you why you dont mix behavior and presentation with html and what the purpose of html is and that it is not targetted at a specific user agent
and in fact, i do think html is an inferior technology and should be replaced with XML asap because thats the only way to make sir tims vision come true. but that aint going to happen anytime soon thanks to html5
and its exactly because people fail to understand the purpose of (x)html. they just see it as a language to make pretty websites. they think its about presentation. they think its about behavior. when all that isnt true.
10:58
hi all
@dskanth hey
@JohnP do u know Drupal ?
@dskanth nope
@JohnP Its ok
@Gordon - Guess we agree on something. :)
11:05
@ChristianSciberras if so, for entirely different reasons though
11:23
@Gordon - Sometimes, when you build rule over another, you forget all about the requirements.
I'm off for dinner, laters.
when using fopen("directory/file.txt", "w");, if the directory doesn't exist, should PHP be allowed to create it (the user running PHP has read/write access to the whole tree).
yup, PHP will create it
and yes, it should be able to create it
It won't create the directory. Only the file
@JohnP @ircmaxell which one of you is telling a lie?
Try it and see...
11:35
it won't create the whole tree path you send it of course
I meant that it will only create the file :)
Damn what?
i had hoped it would show my new design-patterns badge :)
he's admiring his bling ^_^
11:36
@JohnP yeah :) im such a peacock
Congrats
oh I see, I've got file permission problems. PHP has read/write access to the directory, but only read access on 'new' directories. Is there a way I can set the tree to make permissions of new files/directories mirror the existing tree? - Otherwise I'll have to chmod every time I create a new directory.
we're just like rappers tsk tsk
@ircmaxell thanks
11:38
@Greg if you give the perms to the parent and then php creates new folders, it should be able to read/write to them
Only +18 in that tag for me
@JohnP My issue is that PHP runs under a different user, but the same group as the user who owns the directory.
@Greg: see chmod
@ircmaxell I am using chmod -R g+rws at the moment ... I was under the impression that the 's' caused new directories to follow the same pattern?
That chmod seems to give read/write access to the owner, but only read access to the group. I would like read/write access to the group too.
No, that enables special (running as a different user, etc)
Chmod in php. After creating the directory...
> The set-user-ID-on-execution and set-group-ID-on-execution bits.
00:00 - 12:0012:00 - 21:00

« first day (222 days earlier)      last day (4951 days later) »