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12:00 AM
I've met a few.
the are rare birds though for sure
Like hot star wars chicks
lol
 
lol
Are you referring to Carrie Fisher or Star Wars fans?
 
@LeviMorrison Implying she doesn't look good
 
@LeviMorrison I'm referring to hot star wars fans. Maybe geeks is more appropriate.
 
@Raynos I've never met her.
 
I do appreciate a girl that is confident enough to dress well and takes care of herself though.
Apparently she's married with a kid too. So I think she's done a good job of that
but, moving on lol
 
12:04 AM
@KevinPeno Oh yeah, this is a PHP room . . .
 
lol
So....how 'bout them PHP's
 
I dont actually like PHP >_>
flame suit on
 
lol
I don't think you'll find much argument here
 
@Raynos lol
@Raynos I have a lot of respect for PHP 5.3 If we are talking < PHP 5.3, I'm absolutely in agreement.
That doesn't mean I don't like certain parts of it.
 
double negative >_<
 
12:06 AM
@KevinPeno and I have been over some of the more irritating details today.
 
haha yeah
I'm not a fan of how they implemented traits...
may as well have supported multiple inheritance
 
What, no return type? The definition of a function maps one thing to another! WTF??!
Btw, in C, the sequence ??! is called a triglyph is the same as |. Yes, there is such thing as a WTF operator.
 
haha
scala's traits make sense
they are used when the thing is used...not in the thing definition
 
that's by definition not a trait then
 
@KevinPeno If I'm using traits, I won't be using PHP. So I couldn't care less.
 
12:09 AM
traits, as defined in research papers and the such is a strictly compile time only construct
 
@ircmaxell sure, but I don't like traits at all. I don't see how they can be spun different than multiple inheritance
which is why I like the scala method
 
@salathe @ircmaxell I have a working patch for bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=60341 up now. Look if you'd like to. I'd appreciate any feedback.
 
nice
 
@ircmaxell Good article
 
12:16 AM
thanks
So, yes I agree
 
Anyway, scala does traits right. It is compile time. However, it's not coupled to the class, as PHP's are.
at least not how I see it anyway
but yeah, I'd much rather see multiple inheritance so I can make my hybrid CatDog
jk jk
 
huh? compile time? Yet not coupled? How does that work?
 
It's a little different to consider in a functional language
but you might not see it that way
I don't necessarily make reuseable classes in functional language
maybe I just need these traits for now
it's coupled there, in that spot
 
which is the same, just different paradigms
 
sure
I suppose I'm mixing up their use of mixins and traits
so nvm :P
 
12:25 AM
yeah, that makes sense
 
how do I do a multiline code block in chat?
I can't figure it out >_<
 
is there a meta article on it at all?
 
@KevinPeno enter, then click "fixed font" next to send
 
Ah! thanks..
I wish this guy would come out with a base already
I really like the ideas behind the lang
but I'm jones-in for more details
@ircmaxell thoughts on A::hello as helloA; with traits?
 
12:30 AM
interesting
@KevinPeno I don't like it, but that's your problem (as the implementer)
 
true. I was just curious your stance on it.
 
but there may be usecases for it
 
haha
lol wtf. sudo $object->privateMethod();
I don't know why I read comments to blog posts sometimes
 
@KevinPeno I can call a private method on any object I choose...
 
@ircmaxell what do you mean?
 
12:40 AM
$r = new ReflectionMethod(get_class($object), 'privateMethod');
$r->setAccessible(true);
$r->invoke($object);
 
ah, yes, of course
I just thought the sudo comment was too funny
 
yeah...
 
that's where it came from :P
 
lol
 
hmmm
 
12:46 AM
ho
 
sorry, I shouldn't have typed that. I was just about to think out loud about using traits for better setters/getters
then I squashed that idea for real work since I've been screwing around too much today lol
 
I think we need to set up a feed for xkcd comics so @ircmaxell will stop getting "easy" stars.
3
 
@stevether lol
 
So, WordPress 3.3 huh
any thoughts?
 
1:00 AM
Seriously? :D
 
Depends what you're using it for/want to do with it
 
I don't use it nor like it, however I need to make sure that the companies clients (around 80 of them) are having no broken plugins or themes with the latest WordPress
so .. yeah, I'm in hell.
 
1:42 AM
 
Oh, I do know what it means. People say that handling clients is hell. Well, combine that with the actual problem a client has and a hundred other problems which have nothing to do with WordPress itself, but demand "fixing" nevertheless and a boss who only cares when sales are going down.
Oh and, upgrading wordpress 1x to 3.3 is also awesome
 
Clients are the pavement to our personal hell full of work at a low budget. ;)
But I agree that Wordpress lacks a bit of quality (all over).
 
I personally don't fancy any cms .. which, is weird? is it?
 
@wabbble I've always made my own
no frameworks, just php
 
I like to custom build stuff, which is probably not productive at all, but it makes me happy for some reason.
 
1:55 AM
where is @tereško
 
I have no idea
 
@wabbble I don't think it's uncommon to not fancy any frameworks.
Frameworks make some things nice.
If I was a company creating hundreds of sites a year: I'd pick one or two frameworks that fit all clients' needs and stick with it.
But if I'm making one website, I'd never use a framework.
The moment you need something to break out of the normal framework paradigm but still need access to stuff inside the framework you'll curse yourself for making the choice.
 
2:22 AM
@LeviMorrison Odd... So it's good for many, but not good for an individual... odd
 
@ircmaxell Well, usually when I'm making one site it's because it's not as traditional as others. If that were not the case, then I wouldn't have a job because some other programmer could have whipped out a site in Ruby in < 1 day.
 
I'm not arguing, just pointing out that it's odd...
 
Hey
May I ask an API related question?
 
...?
 
I am wondering how to control windows programs in code?
Automate a lot of the clicks and entries that are monotonous.
 
It would be nice if it could be done in the background without the screen jumping around with changes that the code provokes.
Is that possible with autohotkey?
 
It's not possible with anything without requiring custom coding on the application's side
 
user406009
@ElectroNerd Some programs allow command line control.
 
user406009
That would be a better way of controlling a separate program.
 
3:04 AM
morning guys , gals and everyone else
 
@tereško g'morning.
It's still early in the night for me :)
 
its 5am here ..
 
I have a ton of sites to update :(
probably gonna get to bed around 9am or so
 
@tereško What are your thoughts on OutOfRangeException and its current definition? php.net/manual/en/class.outofrangeexception.php
 
Good time everyone!
 
3:20 AM
@LeviMorrison , sounds like something you would use for a fixed length array implementation , i personally would have little use for it
besides , php does not have "compile time"
 
@tereško That's what it sounds like, definitely. However, OutOfRange is not the exception that comes to mind. Instead I think of OutOfBoundsException, which also exists.
I'm attempting to improve SPL documentation, so I'm asking people their thoughts on some of the ones that are particularly obscure.
I wonder if anything in the Spl actually throws that exception . . .
SplFixedArray (the only one that sounds like it might use it) definitely does not.
 
dunno .. i have used SPL only for minor things, mostly the interfaces
 
@tereško Such as Countable, ArrayAccess ?
 
yeah , the ones
 
I have to laugh at the choices in the SPL sometimes. http://www.php.net/manual/en/splfixedarray.construct.php
See errors. If I give it a negative number it fails. But if I give it something it can't parse as a number, it just gives me a warning? Ridiculous.
I'll probably modify it when I think of the best way to throw exceptions. I'll probably just throw InvalidArgumentExceptions for everything that's not valid in the constructor.
 
3:36 AM
@LeviMorrison That is not unexpected behavior.
> The size of the fixed array. This expects a number between 0 and PHP_INT_MAX.
 
@OmeidHerat My point isn't that it shouldn't throw an exception for negative numbers. The problem is that if you give it something it can't understand it will not fail. That's not only bad, but inconsistent. Throw exceptions for both, or for neither.
 
I don't think it's inconsistent, Not understanding and out of range is different things and should be treated as such.
 
How is not understanding not as serious as out of range
So the program is just gonna...guess at what to use?
 
@CharlesSprayberry it's more serious then out of range, and I agree that it should have been E_ERROR not E_WARNING.
@CharlesSprayberry no it doesn't guess, it's predefined, out of range throws exception and unparasble is E_WARNING.
 
right but an exception stops execution
an E_WARNING does not
 
3:50 AM
exception doesn't stop execution. if that was the case you wouldn't have ever been able to catch it.
 
i guess i should rephrase that
it prevents any calling code after the exception from executing, meaning when i pass a -1 i have to do something about it
when i pass an unparseable value i don't
if i don't have display_errors on i might not even know it happened
 
defs you should. yeah I agree it should fail but let me see what it does with unparaseable value.
Oh well it gives you an empty SplFixedArrayObject.
 
eh, that's not as bad i guess
and i mean, obviously you have errors showing in development
i was being facetious to support my own argument :P
i still think it should thrown exception
 
but guess what ! it's even worst.
so when it's a Zero size SplFixedArray you can't add anything to it ! I mean nothing what so ever.
it defs should throw an exception or the E should be ERROR not WARNING.
 
of course, it's an array fixed to 0 length :P
 
3:56 AM
so it breaks down the path where it shouldn't even get if something is wrong. /facepalm
 
SPL code should be throwing Exceptions, particularly when it winds up with objects that are useless. At least you can check the return object for size
Of course this is easily fixed...don't pass a string to a constructor expecting an int?
 
true that.
brb
 
em .. guys , question : i am correct to assume that only situation when file_exists() trows E_WARNING is when file is a symlink
 
@tereško unsure, sorry
 
based on this bit :
if (php_stream_stat_path_ex((char *)filename, flags, &ssb, NULL)) {
   /* Error Occured */
  if (!IS_EXISTS_CHECK(type)) {
      php_error_docref(NULL TSRMLS_CC, E_WARNING, "%sstat failed for %s", IS_LINK_OPERATION(type) ? "L" : "", filename);
   }
   RETURN_FALSE;
}
 
4:02 AM
@tereško nope, it should be either FALSE or TRUE.
 
@tereško It appears it always returns FALSE or TRUE, but may raise a warning.
 
this is the only waring i found in regard of files existence
 
Bom! it' always throws warning with False.
> Upon failure, an E_WARNING is emitted.
 
oh .. right .. misread that
 
@OmeidHerat I think the worst part it is that it proceeds past construction when CLEARLY you passed something invalid. I don't think an empty SplFixedArray is a bad thing. Useless perhaps, but not bad.
 
4:07 AM
with "failure" i understood something more of a crash and burn variety
 
@tereško don know, that is what the Documentation says.
I would assume when ever it returns false it's a failure.
@tereško or perhaps this one is the failure:
> Note: Because PHP's integer type is signed and many platforms use 32bit integers, some filesystem functions may return unexpected results for files which are larger than 2GB.
 
dunno ... simple none-existing file does not cause a warning
 
there is the same note and E_warrning for is_file and few other file functions as well. so this should be size issue should be it !
 
i still thinking that it could have something to do with soft-links in filesystem too
 
4:45 AM
C'mon PHP!
`unexpected T_THROW` for `$this->database instanceof database or throw new Exception("Database is expected to be an instance of database class.");`
 
emm .. why would you even write such a convoluted line
 
That is as verbose as Code can be. are you suggesting that if is better then that ?
 
yes , i am
 
by verbose I mean, easy to read and understand. it might not be the right word.
 
FYI , something from typography : for line to be easy to read , it must be approximately 66 characters long
and no , i did not make that shit up
btw , why cannot you check the instance at the point when you are passing it in the constructor ?
as in public function __construct( \Database $database ){
 
4:57 AM
fair enough, I am actually doing that by type hinting not namespace.
 
Is it horribly wrong if I create databases (for localhost, for work) like "sites_mc-sales.com" ? As in, will it break anything?
 
that is the name of database ?
 
yeah
I'm sure if - or . is a good idea
 
you should not use dot in the name
 
I'm not*
All right
but - is ok?
 
4:59 AM
about dash .. hard to tell .. i think using underscores would be better
and the prefix "sites_" seems a bit pointless
 
So, sites_mc_sales_com ?
yeah well, I want some order to it all. like personal_ for my stuff and so on
 
So go for something like office_ or maybe work_.
 
i would have used just "mc_sales" .. and been done with it
 
work is shorter tho', yeah, good point.
and that, too.
It's just 7am and well .. uhm .. that.
 
then have a fucking nap .. zombified developer can do more harm then drunk one
 
5:02 AM
totally
 
    $this->database or throw new Exception("Database is not available.");

unexpected T_THROW: why PHP why !?!?
 
probably, yes. however deadline of the thing is in .. well, 3 hours.
 
the next day you go, 'wtf did I do that for??'
 
isn't it awesome if your boss sends you an email of the whole thing 1am and expects it to be done 9 hours later?
 
@wabbble why were you checking your email at 1? :P
 
5:04 AM
@JohnP Haha, good point.
 
Cause he called to make sure that I would -.-
 
@wabbble why would you answer your phone at midnight ?
 
Well I did sign up for around the clock work and all, so whatevz right?
Because I'm an awesome person like that.
And I may or may not go drinking with my boss irregularly
Which is always a bad idea
 
in would have argued for more time toll deadline anyway
something like 16h
 
Oh well. I suck at negotiating.
 
5:07 AM
"can client be persuaded to wait till 3 in the afternoon ?"
 
Yea I'm more like "hello, yes. i understand. yes, ok. bye"
 
grow some balls
 
Maybe I should start doing drugs and act like one of those jail-type people who have that murder-face on every time they don't like something.
@tereško don't you come to judge me!
 
wait .. isn't that something i do all the time ?
 
yes, ... yes it is.
 
5:57 AM
is there any way to arrange the result as that of in IN('3','1','4','9') bcoz by default mysql arranges in ASC
 
no
 
@tereško ?
 
@Sparkx MySQL doesn't arrange at all it just feeds how it finds unless other wise specified.
 
which part of "no" was hard to grasp ?
 
Is there any way that I can build a time travel machine with PHP?
</mocking>
 
6:04 AM
@wabbble: it is likely you will build it, but it will move to the past only
 
Which is exactly what I need. I need to get back to the point where I decided to give html a try.
and not do it.
 
@wabbble if it was possible , would you rally use it ?
 
it would be a paradox then
 
maybe i'd be in sales instead then, or something which actually required me to socialize. would be awesome.
 
programmers are social
all the world can see your work
while another sold TV in another day is just nothing
 
6:06 AM
No I meant more like, talking to people and stuff.
like, outside of the chatroom or outside of a bar when being drunk.
 
do you work at office?
 
nope
 
well - you should then
 
office is like, 300~km from me.
 
relocate there
 
6:07 AM
i don't wanna move to a bomb hole.
 
I relocated for 11k km to get the work of my dream )
 
This certainly is not the work of my dream here
Estonia doesn't have any of that
 
move to another country
 
now that's a whole lot of a better idea
been thinking of Finland a long, epic time
 
finland is really cool
 
6:09 AM
Indeed it is
awesome people
 
couldn't get any good work invitation from there though
 
I don't even speak the language nor do I know of any finnish web marketing companies
or agencies for that matter
 
@zerkms Hey! long time to talk !
how are you ?
 
@OmeidHerat: yeah
I'm better than anyone )
 
and how you doing with Kiwis ?
 
6:11 AM
well, some of them speak "terribly", but it's not a big issue
fotki.yandex.ru/users/zerkms/?ncrnd=8256 --- here are some proofs of my happiness )
 
guys any idea?
 
Estonian is pretty much the same as Finnish .. but most of the words mean a completely different thing there
 
@zerkms Good stuff, you should come to Au some time.
 
Russia huh? @zerkms
 
yeah, it is not that easy to get the visa there
@wabbble: yup
 
6:14 AM
I have visa covered
my mom lives there so she can help me out with that :P
 
@zerkms agree, they have some of those weirdest restriction ever.
 
Plus it's european union so I can go there and well.. stay there pretty much with minor setbacks if I don't get the green card or whatever it's called
 
@OmeidHerat: one of my colleagues (he is also and the only russian in the office) does the paperwork for au visa. and his paper stack grows fast ))
 
They have like form XYZ for visa Type123 and you get terrified by the Mass of the booklet (Yes! that is not a form or anything it's a booklet :P ) but as soon as you feel good about finishing that you see that it's says you also need form X1,X2,X3....Xzellion as well.
 
6:29 AM
Hi , i am facing authentication issue when calling fedex web service,i found more post regarding this issue on stackoverflow. i tried with url given in some post. i can not find the solution.if any body knows , kindly help me on this.
i am facing the same issue given in this post stackoverflow.com/questions/2013657/…
i tried with following url in wsdl file "gateway.fedex.com/web-services"; , "gatewaybeta.fedex.com/web-services";. I am using RateService_v10.wsdl file.
i am struggling with this issue for the past 2 days !!!!
 
7:12 AM
if you have an array in class user that holds the user information like, name,email... what would you name it ?
data ?
 
userData
 
7:37 AM
@JohnP Sounds good, but when you have $user->userDatait sounds a bit boring :P
 
first point : why the public properties ?
second point: why do you need the get ALL the properties , how will you use them
 
Hem ?
it's not public first.
second: magic methods. ( if that says anything)
 
$user->userData has to be public , or magic
 
oh true.
$this->userData sounds prefect.
 
magic getter is a really really REALLY bad idea
 
7:41 AM
why ?
 
1. your API lies
2. if application grows , __get() will become a dump
 
1. kind of, but it does what it's asked too. How it deals with what said is none of business of others and they should never know about it.
2. How so ?
 
if you can do $foobar = $user->userData; , user would expect to be able to do $user->userData = $foobar;
as for 2nd point , think what will happen when you need another such "magic variable" ? or another two
the complexity grows
 
@tereško Indeed that is why you have the setter as well. but the don't get access to userData as whole but to it's parameters.
 
magic in code is bad .. just don't
 
7:59 AM
Yes. magic is bad. because it's unexpected behavior unless it's specifically a magic methods. but oh well.
 
not is if you have explained it all :P
 
Oh gawd. I only hate windows when it comes to explorer.exe part of it (most of the whole OS). When it copies a 30+ GB file to another drive, even with 4gb ram dual 2 core pc, it lags like a motherfu**er.
 
if you cannot understand why using magic setters/getters for something like an User class is bad , then there is nothing to explain
i have no interest in explaining the basics again and again , and again , and again .. and again
 
Yeah, that's understandable. By theory, that's a never ending loop which at some point will overrun the machine behind it and then it's ... gone.
 
8:13 AM
@tereško take some chill pill. magic is bad just don't. is not a reasonable answer.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:19 AM
Good morning
 
Good Evening..
 
9:36 AM
hmm .. strange
it seems like there re two groups of php developers :

1. people who uses Drupal, CakePHP or CodeIgniter
2. people who care about code quality and try to come up with something better
i just have to conclusion that people who use the three above mentioned "frameworks" are extremely vocal about frameworks and extremely ignorant about code quality
 
1
A: How does one specify a file path relative to the location of the config file when Zend_Config_Ini is in use?

GordonPHP supports constants in Ini files, but unfortunately not magic constants, so you cannot use __DIR__, which would solve the problem. The easiest and most obvious thing would be defining the path to the application.ini file as a constant just like you did with APPLICATION_PATH, e.g. // applicati...

I am quite annoyed by that Billy O'Neal dude
He has a habit of asking vague questions and when you answer him, he starts argueing how stuff isnt good enough for some even more vague reasons.
 
9:51 AM
this is why SO would really use personal tags
so that you can tag other users for your-eyes-only and ignore ones with
 
:P
@tereško I guess, that your list would be really small. :)
 
0
Q: Check the content of file before upload

Dileep DilI have to check the Content of a zip/rar file before uploading to the server. Let me explain the scenario. There are 2 types of users in my web project: 1: Normal Registered user 2: Administrator of the Project Any Registered user can Create Pages on our Project,also they can create Themes F...

i have so many doubts there
please take a look
 
0
Q: Unit testing of functions

faramkaI have got a PHP file in which there are some functions (not included in a class). I am using PHPUnit to testing. When I try to generate in a simply way a test file from a file containing functions, the log says: Could not find class... Is there any possibility to test functions which are not m...

 
@Eugene well , it would be less for ignoring people and more for knowing who you are dealing with
 
How could the chosen answer be the better solution, then I proposed. Okey well, this one goes to my list :)
 
10:10 AM
well .. was a bad example, i think more common would be , , etc.
 
hehehe....BC 1000
 
yeah , that wold be a fitting user tag too
 
@tereško Aw man I would love public user tags
I'd defiantly get
 
public - no , private - yes
and i would just get
 
nah you would get
 
10:18 AM
it's all for a good cause
 
why i flagged >:(
 
for which line ?
 
i'd probably get weirdo
or something like that
 
@tereško don't generalize! I use cake, CI, Zend, jQuery and a few others but you don't see me evangelizing for frameworks :P
 
dunno .. i really like it as a "rule of thumb" ..
 
10:32 AM
@tereško Could I ask for your thoughts about namespace specific problem?
 
you can try , but im currently solving one namespace-related fuckup myself
 
My framework loads controllers depending on the route, thought when I create possible class name it doesn't have namespace in it, therefor I can load it correctly.
 
so ..
 
For now I use class mapper to get the correct path and use namespaces only in framework part.
 
your application should be in a separate namespace then framework
then you can map said application's namespace to a specific path
 
10:37 AM
@tereško One moment.
@tereško
Application/
Application/modules/
Application/modules/customers/controllers/CustomersControllers.php

I would have there, something like

namespace Application/modules/customers/controllers; // Later would make all with capital letter

class CustomersController extends ActionsController
{

But via route I will only see the part /customers/
Yes, by default I know what action to use, but still will have only the part of the namespace /customers/ and action ( for example ) /index
 
looks kinda .. wtf
\Application\Customers\CustomersControllers .. i guess
 
What looks to you in such way?
I have other stuff in Application two
 
i think there is something really wrong going on this the combination of directory structure + autoloader + naming convention
 
10:53 AM
Have would you aproach it then? Currently my application directory has configurations, cache, models, modules and some additional libraries, that even if extend some others from framework are still distinctly only for application and probably only this application.
 
i have been working on that for past hour myself
 

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