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Ell
Ell
20:00
@Pawnguy7 friends are very much a good idea
In C++ :D
@Ell Ubuntu 12.04
did a google shopping search for "Windows 7" "Operating systems" "in stock nearby" and got 3 hits, all were Windows 8 :(
@Mysticial Wow that second one is awful
@Mysticial Thanks for that second one, I'm back to a rep that is a multiple of 5
I'm pretty sure the prime one is a troll
20:01
@Borgleader Thanks to that second one, my rep is no longer a multiple of 5 :F
Ell
Ell
@MooingDuck apparently Ubuntu 13.04 has significant performance increases. You should be able to upgrade from the upgrade manager in ubuntu, not sure if it's worth it for you
@Griwes You could have opted not to downvote it :P
The prime numbers one deserves more downvotes.
I didn't downvote it because the guy no longer exists
i understand its hard not to considering how bad it is
20:02
@Borgleader Could... not... resist...
@Jeffrey agreed
The prime one is a troll I've seen before
So it isn't original.
Well idk if the guy was trolling or not I mean it's his only answer on SO
He has 1 (+1) question and 1 answer (-10)
Ell
Ell
Am I correct in saying no negative numbers are prime?
20:04
@Ell Primes are natural numbers.
Ell
Ell
natural is >= 0 ?
@Ell I think I can work out how to do that
Natural is { 1, 2, 3, 4, ... } or { 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, ... } (other variants are also allowed; choose whichever fits you at the time you use it).
The technical definition is "a number that can only be divided by one and by itself, IIRC. Therefore negative numbers should be included?
No.
Primes by definition are positive
20:07
Ok then. I'm wrong.
Anyway even if negative numbers were allowed, like -3 you'd have -3 * 1, -1 * 3, and -3 * -1 and a bunch of other shit
too many combinations, waste of time
so they made it only positive numbers
mathematicians are lazy
Oh yeah, I haven't considered that...
Not as lazy as programmers.
Programmers are just lazier mathematicians.
Point taken.
20:12
I want to star that message, Jesus!
how to search for an element in mozilla console?
ctrl+f diesnt work
Ell
Ell
@Borgleader I don't think so. The replacement for Xorg is Wayland
Then what the hell is MIR?
Ell
Ell
I think they're talking about the thing where you plug your phone into a computer and it becomes ubuntu
20:19
@Ell Sounds occult.
why no one tells me :(
@evening Because this is not Lounge<Firefox>
It's Lounge<Objective-COBOL++>
Stupid controller.
Why aren't you connecting :(
I posted on the maximumpc forums this morning, post has yet to be approved by a mod :(
Help me! I can't find Helpdesk<C++>!
20:24
@Morwenn It's here
Ell
Ell
@Borgleader I was wrong. Wayland was going to be the replacement display server
So MIR is the new Wayland?
f
How do I make multiple lines appear as code?
each line begins with four space cahracters
20:30
put code in the box, ctrl-a -> ctrl-k
press Ctrl + K
also, I finally figured out how to tell mac to burn bootable cds, so this should be a step in the right direction
#include <type_traits>

template <typename T>
struct Helpdesk
{
	typedef std::integral_constant<bool, true> fuck_given;
};

template <>
struct Helpdesk<C++>
{
	typedef std::integral_constant<bool, false> fuck_given;
};
@Morwenn something like this
also, dont paste long snippets, use ideone, or pastebin or wtv
3-4 lines is fine though
Can't reply and code at the same time
20:31
what a fail ..
You tried.
Anyone knows why some functions are missing from wincrypt.h in mingw? CryptStringToBinaryA is not defined in that header.
And also pinged the wrong person. Lel..
@Michael Couldn't find it on Google.
MSDN changed
@Rapptz changed?
Looks different
Oh new design?
@Rapptz they windows 8-ified it
i like it, which is strange because i hate the metro UI
20:36
Anyway I looked at my mingw-w64 header
#define CryptStringToBinary __MINGW_NAME_AW(CryptStringToBinary)
@Borgleader Oh fuck, I did not even know there was an actual room like this.
and then went a bit more down
WINIMPM WINBOOL WINAPI CryptStringToBinaryA(LPCSTR pszString,DWORD cchString,DWORD dwFlags,BYTE *pbBinary,DWORD *pcbBinary,DWORD *pdwSkip,DWORD *pdwFlags);
  WINIMPM WINBOOL WINAPI CryptStringToBinaryW(LPCWSTR pszString,DWORD cchString,DWORD dwFlags,BYTE *pbBinary,DWORD *pcbBinary,DWORD *pdwSkip,DWORD *pdwFlags);
So it's there.
I don't know what problem you're having.
@Rapptz that is wincrypt.h?
Yep
@Rapptz Nothing there for me. Maybe I messed up my mingw installation somehow?
All the other crypto functions are in there.
20:39
Ow, first time in a while I don't know whether one of my classes should have a value or pointer data member.
Are you using mingw-32 or mingw-w64?
@Rapptz mingw32
because on mingw-32 I can't find it
@Morwenn You must be new here.
@Rapptz What do you think this means? That is only exists for w32?
20:40
@Borgleader Why are you stating that?
Because weve used that room quite a few times
if updating is an option
Epic vfx behind JP
@Michael w32? You mean Win32?
20:42
@Borgleader I actually never needed it nor gived a fuck about whether such a room existed or not. So I ended up not knowing it existed. Thing is I still don't need it.
@EtiennedeMartel Yes
@Rapptz Does this mean I can only use that function in 64-bit binaries?
that project has 32-bit too, let me check if their headers have it sec
yeah the one targeting 32-bit has it also.
The one I mentioned up there is this one
@Rapptz Looking into it now. Thank you!
I have like 6 versions of MinGW for some reason.
20:53
lol
How many times has this been posted/starred?
@Borgleader I'd say 14 or 15.
I see what you did there
I hoped so.
@Griwes OOOHHH nice.
20:56
It's a lame joke, though.
after chrome's unity bar, I can't stand not having that :/
user142019
There was a program on TV about Pompeii.
@Rapptz Everything works now. Thank you for your help!
@MooingDuck heh
20:59
No problem.
So my joke was almost accurate, lol
@MooingDuck Hey I posted it once!
I don't even remember that.
@MooingDuck What's the Unity bar?
21:01
@MooingDuck Would have been fun if we had 14. Then we could post it another time.
Would be so meta.
@Borgleader er, wrong name
Dafuq, I booted my old laptop which has ubuntu on it. I try to download the updates and it tells me to check my internet connection but then i open firefox i can browse the internet just fine. wtf is this...
i think it's trolling me
The mac still refuses to boot from the cd even after I converted the image to .cdr format first as a "master cd/dvd". not sure what to try next, besides break down and try to download a win7 cd again from somewhere, or pay money again.
and on the linux box it keeps saying I need to update adobe, but then errors saying that it would require installation from unauthenticated sources :/
welp, yay for sudo apt-get update
Ell
Ell
21:16
@MooingDuck Hmm. I have a feeling you have to go into software sources. either edit /etc/sources or go into synaptic
That's a guess, though
21:35
@R.MartinhoFernandes Civ4? You're old school.
Civ3 or less would be old school.
Ell
Ell
Is there a way in c++ to statically detect scope? Hmm
Eg enforce some commands to be wrapped in a block of some kind
I just learned my linux laptop has a battery life of approx 3 minutes.
@Ell usually make those commands members of an object, so they have to instantiate the object locally and then act on the object. Course, they could have it in too large a scope, but I can't think of a way to prevent that.
@Borgleader E: GPG error: extras.ubuntu.com precise Release: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 2
dang it mac.... my partition is full of deleted files but I don't have permissions to empty the trash can. Suggestions?
Ell
Ell
21:52
Become superuser?
Also thanks for the tip
@Ell and how does on do that on mac?
afaik I am the superuser
Ell
Ell
From terminal do "sudo su"
Not sure actually
Should a programmer new to C++ learn C++98, or jump straight into C++11?
Ell
Ell
C++11
I'd say C++11, but then it depends. If it's for work and you're going into an industry that is highly conservative, C++11 might not be a good idea.
Ell
Ell
21:58
Yeah actually
No conservatism. Just greenfield.
Are you our new connections to the powers that be, or just passing by?
I'm in here as an ordinary user.
I've asked a number of language-choice questions in here over the last couple of days. Since I've been asked at least once what kinds of applications I am building, I should probably point out that I'm interested in things like language design choices, compilers and the like, with a special interest in metaprogramming.
22:01
C++11 has a bunch of new toys so definitely go for that then :)
Ell
Ell
Ruby is great for runtime metaprogramming, you can write dsls very easily
specifically, C++11 rvalues changed how simple tasks should be designed.
other than that, 99% of the differences are extensions that newbies won't care about, plus a little syntactic sugar.
I hope you're not stuck on MSVC though, they're way behind on C++11 features
I noticed that.
Hey man.
22:03
I'll probably stay with C# for my .NET stuff. I still need to be better at all of C#'s nooks and crannies.
for(auto&& i : container) is the best syntactic sugar we've gotten in a long time.
Yes, that is nice.
Don't know what I'd do without foreach in c#.
MSVC9 has a few library features, MSVC10 has rvalues, MSVC11(with NovCTP thingy) has most of the C++11 language (sans library)
@Rapptz nonsense. struct A{ std::string name="empty";};
also, where's my backtick key?
Not most features, afaik its missing constexpr and a bunch of other stuff
oh, it's by the spacebar
22:05
altchar + 96
@Borgleader "most of" means it's allowed to be missing some
It's missing a lot of things :S
initializer list construction :(
@MooingDuck its missing like half of them, i wouldnt call that most
using type alias!
decent variadic templates
22:07
Variadic templates are half broken.
Is C++98 still the right choice for constrained environments like embedded? Or do they have their own "tiny" C++ versions?
I mean, they only support one "side" of what they should support.
@RobertHarvey C++11 doesn't really add any bloat
They have something called Embedded C++
:S
well some of them anyway.
@MooingDuck That's good to know.
22:08
unless you go crazy with templates and such, I don't see why people don't use C++ for embedded.
Ell
Ell
C compilers are more readily available I'm guessing
Even though its probably trivial to use a c++ compiler, maybe people just don't want to make that little effort
The only real problem I recall hearing about for C++ in OS' was the interaction between template function instantation and code paging. Which doesn't apply to embedded AFAIK.
i worked on a chip that didnt support pointers (for a school project). I hated it, so restrictive.
Ell
Ell
Didn't support pointers? Wow
Uh. No memory?
22:11
@Griwes That means no heap, just stack.
@MooingDuck I've always wondered why they don't use C++. back in the late 90's we used C++ exclusively for embedded work (68k & PPC) targeting mid-range digital set-top boxes
@Borgleader I can still hardly imagine that.
Which is why I still do stupid shit like if(NULL != ptr)
Ell
Ell
Maybe they do use c++, it could just be a misconception
Heck, function calls use pointers.
Inherently.
22:12
@Griwes No.
Ell
Ell
Isn't there always a stack pointer though?
@Rapptz 23 yes, 4 partial, and 14 no. That's way more than half. Does "most of" mean more than half, or is the definition more strict?
It would need to be some insane kind of CPU arch.
The guy who made that blog post was a bit more lenient towards VS2012 according to the reddit post based on it a while ago. Like it says "Yes" for initializer list despite that it's partial (has the library, but not the constructors)
Variadic templates are listed as "Yes" despite being partial again (it's quite buggy to work with)
Variadic templates says yes but theyre buggy as hell, so it should be partial
22:15
I'm not holding my breath on counting however many features implementations claim to implement. I'm waiting for 'support for C++11 is now not experimental any more'.
I'm hoping C++11 will be fully implemented by the time VS2014 ships
at which point i'll start bitching about their poor support of C++14
@Borgleader Like in, having C++11 implemented the year C++14 is to be delivered? Not possible, I'd say.
user142019
Hello?
@Griwes It's not completely out of reach.
22:21
@Griwes Hell Clang is a newer compiler and they're almost done. Microsoft is a behemoth of a company, and they're falling behind.
If only clang was more windows friendly...
user142019
Microsoft could help development on and switch to clang.
user142019
In theory.
@rightfold Why would they?
Admitting defeat is not their style.
I feel like methods in Java and C# always confuse me.
Ell
Ell
Why?
22:32
like
you can create a temporary in a method
and return it
and the object still exists
same for passing
iirc, in java all objects are "newed" and passed by reference, so that explains why you can do that.
yes, it is that... in situations where they would be destroyed (in C++), they instead exist because at least on reference to them remains, so they don't get GCed.
It actually makes things easier.
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel could, not would
user142019
@Pawnguy7 you create objects of reference types on the heap.
22:35
@rightfold Yes, they could, but why would they?
user142019
You pass around references.
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel Of course they wouldn't.
user142019
The ten million layers of management don't like that.
I know. But the way I think of it is how it would be liked in C++.
user142019
Well, it's a different style of programming.
Ell
Ell
22:37
This is gonna sound stupid, but why don't they give up and just help with GCC or clang? Does Microsoft have any features that make the compiler better? They could keep their IDE closed source and there would be no losses to Microsoft
@Pawnguy7 well theres your problem, you're thinking about language A in terms of language B.
I know. I can never seem to ditch my C++ ways, which is odd because I sucked at that too.
user142019
Use structs. (Y)
@Ell Politics.
Ell
Ell
I fail at programming every time I try to code a graph for some reason
22:39
Java has structs?
user142019
Why would I assume anyone uses Java?
user142019
Only the insane use Java.
user142019
You asked about C#.
@rightfold How close minded of you.
user142019
22:39
Java doesn't exist.
Oh.I thought I just said Java. Using it currently.
Ell
Ell
Is politics the only reason? I can think of abi compatibility being a technical issue but besides that.
@Pawnguy7 Why would you do that?
@Ell I don't think this would work out in reality
user142019
@Ell clang is FOSS and Microsoft can modify it.
22:40
@Ell It's not that big of an issue. And they break their ABI at every release, anyway.
user142019
That brings another problem: Apple. :>
@rightfold Clang isn't Apple.
Apple just influences them a little bit too much is all.
user142019
clang is being developed by Apple and others.
user142019
But yeah probably only because of Objective-C.
22:41
@rightfold It's backed by Apple, but not developed by them.
And they're doing it because GCC's license was biting them in the ass.
user142019
:P
I am very confused...
user142019
Xcode still comes with GCC 4.2 or something.
So they figured they might as well replace the compiler that Xcode uses.
I think the biggest issue, is if microsoft were to switch from their compiler to gcc/clang, they'd break most of their code.
user142019
22:42
3 mins ago, by rightfold
@Ell clang is FOSS and Microsoft can modify it.
@rightfold It's the last version in the long line of "Apple GCC forks".
I wonder if ArrayList's get is giving me a copy somehow... but it shouldn't, right?
user142019
> And no PHP or Java questions, no matter what. They will be binned and you will be deemed annoying.
Oh. When did we add that?
22:43
@Borgleader Again, no. You can switch toolchains in VS2012. Why not offer a "Clang Toolchain" as a transition measure?
Ell
Ell
I can imagine gcc's source being horrible. I imagine that about all Unix software for some reason
The reason is: if they did that, they would be admitting that MSVC sucks.
You can't do that.
user142019
@Ell that's because all Unix software is written in C.
user142019
Though I must admit Git's source isn't that bad at all, even though it's in C.
TIL C doesn't have true or false, but has been created a standard header to define them ( probably via macros )
...which is sad.
22:45
@Jeffrey Welcome to the real world, kid.
user142019
Objective-C has TRUE, FALSE, YES and NO which are macros expanding to expressions of type BOOL, which is a typedef of __objc_bool. :P
@Jeffrey It's been 14 years man.
@EtiennedeMartel Funny you mention that actually
20 mins ago, by Etienne de Martel
Admitting defeat is not their style.
A lot of things merged down and can make it seem like a collaborative effort which hides the "we suck" message pretty well.
Ell
Ell
I also imagine perl to be horrible because I associate it with Unix. I should really stop assuming these things xD
22:47
But since GCC and Clang are FOSS they can't do that quite as nicely
@Ell GNU GCC's not Unix :v
Indeed. Microsoft does not contribute to open source projects. Except those they started internally then open sourced, usually as a PR tactic.
Ell
Ell
Heh. Yeah. Silly me xD Unix like :P
Is there an iphone app for the chat? ( inb4 iphone sucks / apple sucks )
I still think Apple is a giant mound of marketing.
22:51
no
iphone sucks
My source for that is that I have one and I hate it
user142019
How does that contrast what I said?
that wasn't a reply to you pawnguy
@Ell Because compatibility.
22:52
@EtiennedeMartel Like what?
they would never get Visual Clang to perfectly replicate all of the MSVC idiosyncrasies
@Borgleader ASP.NET MVC comes to mind. But really, anything they put on CodePlex.
Ell
Ell
@deadmg as in, they would have to replicate bugs in visual clang? XD
Do people outside of Microsoft use CodePlex?
Ell
Ell
That is a true definition of "its not a bug its a feature"
22:55
@Rapptz Yes, but it's usually only used for projects that target a Microsoft product. So you see a disproportionate amount of .NET stuff on there.
Everything I see in there is either by a Microsoft employee of Microsoft MVP person
Ms-PL is so ugly.
user142019
@Borgleader it's called omnibox.
Sup kids

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