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11:00 AM
"The C++ standard doesn't provide a hash for this type" gee, thanks C++.
You're really helpful.
 
@melak47 probably. It's mostly VLC people that add things. But they have the same stuff as WINE does. Which is at least some stuff :)
 
@rubenvb hm. well I was missing basic things like D3DCreateDevice ._.
 
@melak47 then you did it wrong.
My builds should have DX support enabled.
 
Really?
 
@rubenvb yeah. but I don't know what I did wrong. :DDD
 
11:03 AM
@ThePhD yes, as far as MinGW-w64/WINE has it.
 
@rubenvb I'll try again some time..and then bother you when it doesn't work? :3
 
Lulz.
Aww FUCK TITTIES
IT WORKS YEAH
 
what :o
 
A drastically stripped version of my ServiceProvider
 
oh.
pshh, boring :p
I thought you migrated your project to mingw-w64/wine in 5 minutes :D
 
11:05 AM
Hah
As if.
	int p = 0;
	int* pp = &p;
	double d = 0;
	double* dp = &d;

	std::unique_ptr<std::unordered_map<std::type_index, any>> services( new std::unordered_map<std::type_index, any>( 64 ) );
	services->emplace( std::type_index( typeid( pp ) ), any( pp ) );
	std::unordered_map<std::type_index, any>* s = services.get();
	services->emplace( std::type_index( typeid( dp ) ), any( dp ) );
So, using the unordered_map directly solves the problem.
I know what I'm going to do.
WIAT
WAITYWAITWIATWIATIWATI
If you have an object instantiated in the memory of a DLL,
and then try to use it outside of that DLL,
are you doing something wrong?
 
@rubenvb better support for all the MSVC quirks that the DX headers rely on, I assume?
 
@jalf but that would gain you nothing, as an MSVC Clang can't do crap outside of plain C.
@ThePhD if you built the DLL with the same options and compilers, I don't think so.
 
@ThePhD Simply accessing an object across DLL boundries is ok
 
What about modfying an object across DLL boundaries?
 
@rubenvb what do you mean?
 
11:10 AM
@jalf Clang doesn't generate the correct ABI (exception handling, rtti, nor mangling).
 
@rubenvb and you're asking what Clang could do better? ;)
 
pun the world
 
@ThePhD You can modify it as well. Deleting it becomes a problem if the modules use different versions of the runtime or different heaps
@ThePhD If all modules are built with the same runtime, compiler and linker settings, etc. there should be no problem.
 
so..people building mods with different options than @ThePhD's game will break stuff :3
 
Yup...violating the ODR is a bitch
so don't violate her
 
11:23 AM
Pretty cool last minute of the clip
 
worth it for the American pronounciation of 'Farnborough'
 
my snark would have worked better if I'd spelled it correctly
 
did not notice
 
Yay! 16-2 and the Kiwis are collapsing faster than ThePhD's DLL.
 
11:26 AM
@JohanLarsson Surprised the pilot survived. I thought parachutes needed to open earlier.
 
yeah looked like a hard impact, but he looked like a hard man also
 
@pubby they have small explosive charge to push the chute out quickly
 
16-3 - the poor Kiwis are totally deleted on the wrong heap!
 
@Pubby some ejector seats are now 'zero-zero' i.e. they are meant to save your life even when triggered at zero altitude and zero forward velocity
although I think that assumes it fires upward
 
ish
 
11:30 AM
@TomW LOL!
 
Do they save your life if triggered at zero hp?
 
@CaptainObvlious I know, but chutes take a few seconds to open, and then a few more before slowing you down enough.
@TomW I didn't know that. Neat!
 
good thing the pilot was not a random programmer perhaps
 
@pubby I'll ask my pops today when I talk to him. He was a fighter pilot
 
yiz
But the pilot did not get ejected from very high above, so in theory he's no where near the terminal velocity
Besides soft grass land cushioned the impact
 
11:35 AM
the aircraft was in powered flight toward the ground. I'd say that probably exceeds terminal velocity
 
@MartinJames Ha ha ha you're so hilarious. =l
 
yiz
He was ejected slightly towards the sky in that video
The plane only started falling at 500 feet (167 metres)
It is estimated that the human body will reach 99% of terminal
velocity after falling 1,880 feet (573 meters) which takes anywhere
from 10-14 seconds.: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=124248
 
I guess it's safe to jump out of a 4 story building then because it's not terminal velocity
 
@TomW yeah the plane was pretty terminated.
 
@Pubby Just don't expect your legs to love you for any reason at all after that.
 
yiz
11:41 AM
if you land on soft grass ground that has been recent rained on you probably will survive falling 10 metres
I was told once someone tried to commit suicide, jumped off from balcony on level 3, landed on a muddy grassland and survived with minor injury.
 
@yiz You should try it and report back
 
@yiz probably a wide distribution of outcomes when doing that.
 
@Pubby just because you're not travelling at terminal velocity, doesn't meant the impact won#t be terminal :p
 
Man, SO should just use fixed width fonts and abandon markup
So much time wasted editing peoples' bad formatting
or should that be people's
I dunno grammar
 
Ell
momentum = mass * acceleration
I think. And he would be accelerating pretty quick
 
11:46 AM
That's force.
 
F = m*a?
 
Ell
oh wait.
yeah
 
yiz
momentum = mass x velocity
 
Ell
yeah.
So maybe his momentum is not so much :P
 
yiz
final velocity = acceleration x time + initial velocity
so with initial velocity = 0;
momentum = mass x acceleration x time
more accurately it is the integration of acceleration over time
momentum conserve, so if you fall into a grassing mud hole, the wet dirty is likely to 'absorb' most of the momentum :p
 
11:49 AM
That's why I order my rockets from Acme
and make for some great wrestling
ohhh Morris Day & The Time!
 
25-5. Eleven ejector seats required at Lords.
 
Okay
so I've narrowed the problem down even further.
If ServiceProvider is not a pointer, there is no issue.
If it is a pointer, it seems to be unable to handle me storing pointers inside of the service provider.
Previously, it worked if I was storing unordered_map<Type, void*> and just pulling addresses.
Now, I'm storing unordered_map<Type, any> and I'm putting the pointers inside the any.
 
Is it possible to use c++ to obtain physical address (MAC) from logical address(IP) ?
for the local network?
 
In many ways, the any is an utter redundancy in this case, and I would be better off using void*. Also, void* is apparently getting around this issue when I heap-allocate (even though it's storing the same pointer that its void* counterpart is storing).
TBH, I can't figure out where the break occurs and why it occurs the way it does.
This is the silliest bug I've had to deal with in a long time. =/
 
@ErBnAcharya Of course you can
 
12:04 PM
I think I'm going to just go back to void*.
 
@ThePhD You reap what you sow.
 
@ThePhD any suggestions?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What have I sown here? Using an any over using void* and now I get bugs?
 
Don't use any, as already said
do it properly
 
Define a proper type-erased container for me.
 
12:06 PM
meh type erasure
 
... Okay then.
Back to work.
 
are you asking so you can ignore advice?
 
@ThePhD And what should it erase?
 
he doesn't want types obviously
 
Define the common interface that you want to erase to.
 
12:07 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes The type of the object passed in. E.g.: everything.
 
because they could be useful :/
@R.MartinhoFernandes he wants the user to be able to pass in anything
 
Time for a 7-11 run. AFK
 
@ThePhD Yes, that is what you have sown.
 
I don't understand what's so difficult to get about this container. It needs to be able to hold multiple different types which cannot be magically forward-defined. It is non-owning. So, the solution is: store a type-erased address to the object so that ti can be retrieved later, provided it is of the same type. This is the definition of any.
 
@ErBnAcharya ARP?
 
12:08 PM
@ThePhD What's difficult to understand is that it provides no functionality.
 
It's bad design.
 
Time for a 4.5% ABV run. AFK.
 
yes @MartinJames ARP for LAN
 
Do you think time could somehow be more metric-like?
 
12:11 PM
The French tried it after The Revolution, btw.
 
Makes sense. They did it with the rest at that time.
 
Their calendar was thoroughly fucked up.
 
Also makes sense. I was thinking of in just in terms of the hours, but I guess any overhaul just will not work.
 
Code outside the engine itself will expect interfaces to types or certain services to be stored within it. Code that is outside the engine will also use this container to transport these services to other portions of the code and also provide additional information to the engine. Some of these services may or may not be present based on information attainable only at runtime.
 
@ThePhD Yes, and there is no way to obtain that information.
@Pawnguy7 Real calendars are made by altering planetary motions.
 
12:15 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't know what you mean.
 
Solution ??
 
lol@any
lol@void*
lol@interfaceserviceenginetransportcontainer
 
I don't see why everyone's turning their nose up at a runtime service container.
It's not an optional thing. It's necessary.
 
if they're all services, use a service base class with a decent interface.
 
... They're completely different services.
 
12:21 PM
they're still services.
 
Okay then.
 
if they're completely different, why store them together in the first place?
 
@rubenvb This episode is not new.
 
This isn't an episode.
And it's not a bad idea in the first place.
 
It's a neverending saga.
 
user142019
12:22 PM
¡Hola!
 
I just don't understand what planet you guys come from that makes you think everything in the world has to be accounted for at compile-time.
 
The C++ world?
Which has no real runtime reflection?
For good reason?
Or for bad reason?
lol the rules thing is spreading:rlemon.github.io/so-chat-javascript-rules
 
@ThePhD The one that makes the code not mysteriously not-work.
 
this ^
 
what a nice website
 
12:25 PM
I don't think ThePHD has understood the concept of a type system.
It exists for a reason
you should read about it
 
why is theirs good and mine looks like shit?
 
There are systems - several systems - which can only be discovered at runtime. For example: the capabilities of a Graphics Device, whether or not a Sound card exists, whether it supports certain features, whether the user has declared they would like to play the game without any plugins and have a vanilla experience.
 
user142019
@ThePhD The earlier you detect errors the better.
 
@ThePhD None of those calls for no interface.
 
@TomW what are you on about?
 
12:26 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Please share with me the commonalities between GraphicsDevice and AudioDevice that can be anyway abstracted into a Service that will not require a run-time conversion.
 
@ThePhD Please share with me the problem that needs that solution...
 
I explained to you the problem.
Your answer is "none of those call for a no-interface"
 
rlemon posted a link to the Javascript room rules. That's presumably been bashed together in someone's spare time yet it looks really smart, imho anyway. I'm trying to put together a basic page layout by handcrafting css and it looks like ass. Just venting my frustration that everyone seems to be better than me at everything
 
So then how would you solve the problem?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sneaky!
 
user142019
12:27 PM
I think I'm going to buy an iPod classic and a pair of Sennheiser headphones.
 
user142019
Nokia C3's audio quality is crappy.
 
@TomW yea, because CSS is terribru
CSS makes me want to kill myself
 
Since when are devices services?
 
user142019
CSS4 will be a huge improvement.
 
@rubenvb since ThePHD is dealing with them.
 
user142019
12:28 PM
With expressions and parent selectors.
 
@rubenvb Since the user can not have one of them and still want to play the game.
 
user365265
**What's up my compilated nikkas **
 
This can be the case especially with Sound. Or Plugins.
 
So that would be a vector<Device*> which you go through checking its real type through some enum each of these store.
!next
 
user142019
@cept0 I'm not a compilated nikka.
 
12:29 PM
still hacking the type system, but without any nor void*
 
user142019
Hurray.
 
@rightfold right-o, blame the weekend :P
 
@rubenvb That's a moral equivalent of downcasting.
 
user142019
I hate downcasting.
 
@TomW I agree it looks nice, would not be surprised to find some web-skill in that room though
 
12:30 PM
@LucDanton lol moral equivalent. I like that.
 
user142019
Fuck inheritance.
 
user365265
@rightfold sure you are, filly
 
@ThePhD Pretty much all plugin systems I have seen have a set of common functionality.
 
I did not come up with it.
 
@rubenvb So you'd want an enum DeviceType on a Device class, but a void* with a type_info descriptor generated by the compiler is a no-no.
Alright.
 
user142019
12:31 PM
Plug-in system should have a C API.
 
user142019
If you load the plug-ins at runtime.
 
@rightfold that's kind of a stupid requirement.
 
@rubenvb No, it's not.
 
all plugins can be built by the same compiler or in the case of Linux be ABI compatible.
 
Why do plugins need a C API?
oh yea cause ABI. meh
 
user142019
12:31 PM
I don't want to be forced to use the same compiler as the one the game is compiled with. That would be a stupid requirement.
 
@rubenvb And not written in any other language ever.
 
user142019
Especially if it's MSVC :LOL:.
 
That is, unless you want to write mangled names by hand.
 
Well, I never understood plugin systems from the implementation side.
 
12:32 PM
Tony@@@The@@@Lion@@FOOO
 
I can see why they are wanted, but not why everything needs to be a plugin (//CC @Qt Creator)
 
@rubenvb C is the lingua franca of the native world. It makes total sense to use that as your way of communicating with the outside.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but you're communicating with your plugins really, which wrap the outside world in an interface.
 
I am talking about C-as-interface, not C-as-implementation.
 
yeah ok
I can obviously see the advantages.
 
12:34 PM
You can consume and expose C APIs from pretty much any language.
 
As I said, plugins are mysterious to me.
 
Whatever. I've solved my own problems.
 
@rightfold going to a pick gf up at a pony contest now, true story, you want me to say hi?
 
News flash: RPi nor any other H/W decoder can eat 10-bit H.264.
10-bit H.264 is the worst invention, ever.
 
user142019
In POSIX you use dlopen(…) to load a dynamic library and then you can get pointers to symbols using dlsym(…). When you write a Ruby plug-in it does this and calls Init_<plugin name>() to initialize everything.
 
user142019
12:35 PM
I don't know about Windows though.
 
user142019
@JohanLarsson lol
 
@rightfold LoadLibrary and friends?
 
user142019
@rubenvb Probably. :P I have zero experience with the Windows API.
 
LoadLIbrary is for pansies
 
There's not that much difference between the two at this level.
@CaptainObvlious what would you use?
 
user142019
12:36 PM
Or well, I know how to use VirtualAlloc and that's it.
 
My own library loader lol
 
user142019
Objective-C has NSBundle.
 
I wonder if it's feasible to write an ELF loader for Windows.
It has to be
 
user142019
There's also Windows loaders for Linux so why not?
 
Just register an extension like .elf and make them open with your program.
and then just use all the ELF goodness.
 
user142019
12:37 PM
Mach-O ftw.
 
@rubenvb It's actually pretty easy but can be a bit time consuming at times
 
user142019
It's so macho.
 
finally get the gold linker to optimize my codez
 
user142019
An ELF loader for OS X would be an interesting project.
 
uselessness ftw!
 
user142019
12:39 PM
Patching Linux kernel to use Mach-O and have a Mach API.
 
user142019
XNU++!
 
XNU
Makes me wonder what GNU stands for.
General Nuisance Utilititarians.
 
user142019
XNU is not Unix.
 
see what I did there?
 
user142019
GNU stands for the sound a cow makes.
 
user142019
12:41 PM
But only rms can pronounce GNU correctly.
 
No one saw what I did there.
 
Time for bed
 
user142019
Später.
 
The wildebeest ( or , or ) The name "gnu" originates from the Khoikhoi name for these animals, gnou. Gnus belong to the family Bovidae, which includes antelopes, cattle, goats, and other even-toed horned ungulates. Connochaetes includes two species, both native to Africa: the black wildebeest, or white-tailed gnu (C. gnou), and the blue wildebeest, or brindled gnu (C. taurinus). Fossil records suggest these two species diverged about one million years ago, resulting in northern and southern species. The blue wildebeest changed very little from the ancestor species, while the black ...
reminds of this
 
12:42 PM
peace
 
Blue wildebeest <- TIL African people are daltonic.
 
user142019
Je moest eens weten, Martinho.
 
Mmm.
void* working better than any.
I'll look into it later...
 
They are not interchangeable...
 
12:44 PM
I'm gonna specialize any's things for pointers.
That might help. A lot.
 
user142019
@TonyTheLion inb4 death
 
@ThePhD :|
 
@ThePhD I... erm... but... huh... hmm... wh...
 
user142019
> ThePhD
 
Hmmm, solve a problem with pointers
right.....
 
12:46 PM
where did we lose him?
I think it may have been at "hello"
 
user142019
@ThePhD Now you have a pointer to any problem.
 
user142019
I wonder whether ThePhD would also fuck up so much if he used C# instead of C++.
 
Probably, but the language wouldn't be getting in the way.
 
user142019
I bet he would use unsafe all over the place.
 
He's the best example of How not to do things
 
user142019
12:49 PM
He is the author of cplusplus.com.
 
@rightfold The engine and game that made me to the semi finals of the ImagineCup explicitly avoided unsafe (read: there was never any usage of it. Ever) and was very nicely written for C#, thank you very much.
 
yiz
It is called steep learning curve for C++ newbs
 
user142019
Neat.
 
inb4 PHD uses singletons
 
There were no singletons.
The first singleton I used was in C++, and it was destroyed 4 days after it was created for a better solution (in AudioDevice).
 
yiz
12:50 PM
ITT PhD starts learning multithreaded template inheritance
2
 
user142019
Write your engine in Ø when it's Turing-complete and has an FFI.
 
yiz
Out of curiocity, anyone ever used inheritance on template classes?
 
0
A: Android: How can I add HTML links inside a ListView?

Andey HansonThanks for taking the time to discuss this, I feel strongly about it and adore finding out additional on this topic. If feasible, as you acquire expertise, would you thoughts updating your blog with much more details? It is extremely useful for me. You are marooned on the shores of an infinite bl...

 
yiz
wtf stop dumping no C++ related links here
 
12:53 PM
did you post that Android question here
 
user142019
@Jeffrey Protected the question.
 
user142019
Lots of THANKS answers.
 
@yiz Why wouldn't we?
 
yiz
But have you, in real life? Because I have never used inheritance on template classes directly. Use inheritance on classes that utilizes templates (composition): yes.
 
@yiz Hei! Hei! Easy bra. I've got the power of 11k rep, what you got? eh? WHAT? I WON'T DO WHAT YA TELL ME.
 
12:55 PM
Inheritance is very commonly used tool with templates :S
 
user142019
CRTP!
 
@Jeffrey he's right though. Stop it.
 
CRTP isn't very curious or very recurring :(
 
@rubenvb It's funny though :(
 
user142019
@Pubby RAII isn't very acquisition or very initialization :(
 
12:57 PM
@Jeffrey well ok, maybe a tad bit funny.
But don't just dump links. Provide context.
C++ isn't context free.
You'll irritate the regulars
 
yiz
@Jeffrey yes and your account has been here for 2 years and 6 months, my account was created 10 days ago
You would look very silly if I had 11K too
 
@Pubby I see it all the time.
 
This chat is all but a C++ chat AFAIK
 
user142019
@LucDanton but does it recur curiously?
 
That's one of the reason someone created the Real C++ chat...
 
12:59 PM
@Jeffrey yea but that doesn't mean we want to see Java based stuff
 
@TonyTheLion Java?
 

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