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user142019
03:03
lol immediate mode
@Pawnguy7 Why are you using ancient OpenGL commands? afaik the sane way to do things these days is with VBOs
Come on, Pawnguy, that's so 2000.
user142019
Black Screen of OpenGL
user142019
> As for the name: Sinatra + Warp = Scotty.
wait... glBegin() and glEnd() aren't supposed to be used...?
3
user142019
03:08
That makes no sense at all.
user142019
@Crowz arcsynthesis.org/gltut /cc @Pawnguy7
Well I've been doing OpenGL wrong then...
user142019
LOL
You haven't been doing OpenGL :3
user142019
03:08
yes
user142019
you have.
user142019
@ScottW What are they?
I feel like I'm the person who's starred just for saying stupid shit
6
@Crowz Your spidey senses are tingling, then.
So, ints are 64 megabytes, right?
user142019
03:10
You can have 64 MB integers.
Implementation-defined. :P
user142019
@DomagojPandža LOL
user142019
On my machine, int is so big, std::numeric_limits<int>::max() overflows!!
Wow, I'm an idiot. I answered something with threads that were completely pointless before realizing my answer was twice as long as it should be.
user142019
@ScottW min() overflows too.
03:12
@chris Delete everything but "Wow, I'm an idiot." and you'll get a star. :P
user142019
OFF-SCALE
user142019
Sometimes I wish C++ had checked like in C#. :(
user142019
It's useful as hell.
user142019
I would like to see C# with RAII, more sophisticated generics, free functions and only value types. Like, C++ without the bad parts.
@DomagojPandža, If you want to scar yourself, look what I had before.
user142019
03:15
C#++!
user142019
Make a language called OP and call the compiler faggot.
They should have C or C++ Olympics, where any undefined behaviour blows up your computer and you're out.
I've just implemented about 13 special resolve filters for my imagespace AA approach. Looks great and works great, too. But trying the same stuff on hardware-enabled MSAA flips its shit out, the standard resolve is about 10 fps faster, even from the basic average box filter. Remnants of hardware-endorsed "fixed-function" elements are still strong with the GPUs.
@chris The C++ Olympics and the C Paralympics?
oh hey. Fringe is on Netflix now?
Time to watch all seasons straight through!
03:20
@DomagojPandža Resolve filters? I know what AA is but the rest of what you said was chinese to me (no offense @Mysticial)
@Borgleader I can't say I know Chinese either. I only speak Cantonese and I'm illiterate.
@Borgleader Basically, it is how the higher resolution render target data is mapped into the final output framebuffer. Usually, hardware MSAA uses a simple box filter which is a fancy expression for taking the average of the subsamples. Looks pretty good, but there are other options, you can have cubic, B-splines, gaussian, make-something-up filters etc. which take the source data and interpret it differently for varying results.
The resolve filters are best used on top of MLAA derivatives like SMAA or the FXAA approach (the standard box filter approach is terrible with FXAA ( the one everyone uses)). Basically, on top of imagespace techniques which don't omit the post-process.
user142019
Objective-C's object model is very similar to Ruby's.
@ScottW It's hardly automatic. You still need to retain and release stuff. Or at least you needed to in v1.0
user142019
ARC is great. It's like a compile-time GC but without automatic cycle resolving.
03:26
I'm going to go with a "hell, it's about time".
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel sending retain or release is illegal when ARC is enabled. :v
@ScottW Roughly 5 years?
user142019
ARC also allows for exception-safety when using Objective-C++.
What? You mean that ARC thing was in v1?
Why didn't I learn that? Uuuh?
user142019
ARC was introduced late Objective-C 2.0.
03:27
ARC is great, but I could only trust it after I went through the specification data.
user142019
Objective-C 1.0 didn't even have properties lol.
And ObjC2 is 2007.
So, 6 years.
I WAS FUCKING CLOSE.
user142019
Late Objective-C 2.0.
user142019
Like, Objective-C 2.8. :P
What I'm saying is: C# did not have a retarded memory management system in 2001.
03:28
Most of the magic of Objective-C 2.0 was advertised in 2011, IIRC.
So, C# > ObjC.
Case closed.
You can all go home now.
@ScottW Define "bad".
user142019
Yes, but C# isn't from 1983.
GC inherently sucks.
user142019
GC is… if done right, GCs are great.
@Zoidberg So what? You mean we should keep using old stuff?
user142019
03:29
I don't feel the need for RAII in Ruby.
@Zoidberg Do you have an example of a language implementation with a good GC?
user142019
You use blocks for resource management.
For what? Cachet?
user142019
@DomagojPandža .NET.
I guess, yeah, .NET could pass.
03:30
Anyway. C++ is decent only because they actually went and added stuff in 2011.
And they care about it.
user142019
You obviously don't write Rage in .NET. You use C++ for that.
If only fucking Microsoft cared.
user142019
But 99% of applications aren't games that require all resources a computer can possibly offer.
I too can pull numbers out of my ass.
Watch: 100% of Dutch programmers are really lobsters.
sehe is a lobster? Wasn't he a polar bear?
user142019
03:32
@DomagojPandža floating point precision.
@DomagojPandža He's lying for tax reasons.
Anyway. ObjC can go suck a garbage truck.
I dislike it, too. But it's nice it can talk with C++.
Yeah, it's also nice that C can talk with C++.
it's also nice that I can talk with you guys :3
You can also write .NET stuff in C++/CLI, or P/Invoke C code in C#.
03:35
On iOS, you don't have that choice. :P
And now we're getting there: is ObjC used because it's good, or because people don't have a say in the matter?
(And that's not strictly true: 95% of our iOS code is in C++)
Always hated ObjC, always will.
(So there's really no need to write ObjC aside from some bootstrapping stuff)
So, ObjC sucks, and so do those who write it. SEE THAT @Zoidberg?
@EtiennedeMartel I don't think those are the only two options. people still use java even when they have a choice :(
[objc isSausageFest:YES sucksDick:YES goToHell:YES plx:YES gay:NO];
user142019
03:37
I like Objective-C.
user142019
To some extent.
The day I develop for iOS is the day I use PHP to write a 3D MMORPG.
user142019
The object model is wonderful.
user142019
But all the other stuff and the syntax is so fucking bad.
@Zoidberg What? You mean the duck typing?
That's not an object model, it's a fucking nightmare.
user142019
03:38
Message passing.
user142019
Classes are objects.
Yeah, duck typing.
[etienne observe]
user142019
That kind of stuff.
user142019
Reflection.
03:38
[melak47 sleep]
night guys :p
@Zoidberg Most dynamic languages have that.
STOP USING OBJC RIGHT NOW, DUDE.
STOP IT.
user142019
It's wonderful.
I FEEL THREATENED.
user142019
03:39
I don't use Objective-C.
I wanted to make an Objective-C going out of scope joke, but I'm lazy.
@EtiennedeMartel MLP ♥
user1357851
@EtiennedeMartel gosh you and your unicorns
THE ROYAL CANTERLOT VOICE.
@Telkitty Technically, Luna is an alicorn.
user1357851
unicorn meat pies >_<
user1357851
03:44
That would be like between a chicken & a beef pie, wouldn't it?
I once ate an ostrich pie.
It was so good.
Unicorn baloney <3
I wonder whether stores work on Sundays @ 6am. :(
(Fun fact: it's not really meat, it's actually a bunch of plushie parts)
user1357851
@DomagojPandža convenient stores should, although they tend to be more expensive and carry less varieties
user1357851
My Little Pony unicorn meat is Magic
user1357851
03:57
I am getting quite decent with Android app development, it becomes too easy now :p
user142019
04:14
Ja.
user142019
I was thinking. For my language's library I will have Random.next take an enumerable.
user142019
Which can be a range, too.
Whose bright idea was it to make perfect forwarding use templates? x_x
@DomagojPandža: Do you know where I might learn about deferred rendering?
user1357851
programming in any language - after you learnt why everything is work in that particular way, is quite easy
user1357851
04:34
same here, that's why we can't be C++ pros - everytime there is a new, bright thing somewhere, we'll be over there, kind of like the magpies :x
user1357851
lunch time - grilled steak & potato + steamed broccoli <3
user1357851
05:10
Robot! Are you drunk, can I trick you into doing stupid things now?
user1357851
But C++ is still C++, just like PHP is PHP even though now it's on version 6
user1357851
Reading C# & Java' wiki pages, apparently the two influence each other
Just because technology is "new" doesn't make it better.
My friend's homework assignment is to make a TwoWayVector
He asked me for help with it
PHP and MySQL are not good for different reasons, it's good for web dev beginners
It links to cplusplus.com if he needs help with templates.
user1357851
05:32
Apparently C influenced Limbo
user1357851
& Limbo is a programming language
user1357851
In computing, C (, as in the letter C) is a general-purpose programming language initially developed by Dennis Ritchie between 1969 and 1973 at AT&T Bell Labs. Like most imperative languages in the ALGOL tradition, C has facilities for structured programming and allows lexical variable scope and recursion, while a static type system prevents many unintended operations. C program source code is free-format, using the semicolon as a statement terminator and curly braces for grouping blocks of statements. Its design provides constructs that map efficiently to typical machine instructions, an...
C language is powerful
lol
C++11 has a lower readability than C++03, Objective-C readability is pretty low .. and Java readability is pretty high
05:39
I'm sure.
Hi all. I have a simple question. I am actually programming in Java but its a conceptual question.
user1357851
Objective C just has a different syntax
user1357851
and GUI is kind working in a weird (meaning retarded) way
@Telkitty and that syntax has a pretty low readability
public void paint(Graphics g)
{
  g.drawImage(bi,0,0,null);
}
05:42
Java has null?
user1357851
@KhaledAKhunaifer not really
Does that paint on top of the window, or the window becomes the image?
user1357851
@Pubby haha, are you a Java/C# newblet? :p
user1357851
Of course Java has null
@Telkitty The things I stated about readability are not my opinions by the way
05:43
Anyone?
@DemCodeLines how is that a "conceptual" question? It sounds like it's specific to the API you're using.
@KhaledAKhunaifer Of course they're your opinion.
Or even if it isn't, it's someone elses.
11
A: How does Java Graphics.drawImage() work and what is the role of ImageObserver

Kevin MontroseYou can get away with Graphics.drawImage(img, x, y, null) [or similar]. The ImageObserver parameter is a callback to inform you of the progress of the draw operation; and is really only useful if you're fetching the Image parameter asynchronously. To be clearer, if you call drawImage with an in...

user1357851
[ObjectA doesSomething]; // = ObjectA.doesSomething; objective C code
Well, obviously I don't understand what is going on, so I might be wrong in labeling it a conceptual question
How about this, can I add a component to the window after I painted an image to the window?
Anyone?
05:52
@Telkitty that's not the problem here
user1357851
you need to give me an example in that case ...
take an existing project in Objective-C, how fast can you understand it by reading the code (assume the code is well-written)
Anyone?
dot syntax is allowed (but not always) in Obj-C 2.0
user1357851
you can use the dot syntax
user1357851
05:55
IMO objective c is easier to understand than VB
i disagree
I learned VB by myself and when i look obj c code, i get scared.
user1357851
I don't have problem with objective c, but I do have a problem with the GUI component of Xcode
I do iPhone dev, I write objective-C, but I can't lie about its low readability and writability
user142019
I find Objective-C code very readable.
and when the code go deeper, the brackets become confusing, if you want to do A ( B ( C(0) ) ) .. you need to do: [C x:[B y:[ A z:0 ]]]
user142019
06:00
Use rainbow parentheses, you noob.
I'll summon the fairy instead and wish for a code
06:12
@Zoidberg What?
@Crowz I also get that, you are not alone
I have no idea how to set watchpoints in QtCreator 2.7 :(
Googling shows it for 2.2
06:34
@sehe Borken link :s Even appending $[0..9] didn't help.
Are you a wizard?
@sehe Might I suggest the option to specify an explicit return type to make_visitor? Example with binary visitation. It's as much functionality you can pack into imo.
I have it exactly here. (overload<T...> being more involved than just storing a functor but it has a purpose beyond boost::apply_visitor.)
It's fun to see the changes.
06:49
What changes?
On the url, you made 6.
We need a collaborative text editor web-app with replay capabilities :p
@ScottW what happened?
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton Well, LWS can work that way.. :P
And mornin
@Xeo Real-time simultaneous BBQ hottub pizza parlor collaborative text editor!
Xeo
Xeo
06:55
lol
@ScottW ok, leaves more time to coding so not all bad
@Xeo Ya know, I'm really tempted to write my own tuple (with blackjack etc.). I want things like variant<int, tuple<recursive_variant, int, recursive_variant>> v = { { 1, 0 1 }, 5, { 3, 2, 3 } }; to compiles :(
Xeo
Xeo
In what way does std::tuple hinder you? Explicit ctors?
Yes
At least for me
So I tend to not use it :S
That and taking T const&.../T&&.../U&&... doesn't always work.
E.g. I don't think tuple<int, pair<int, double>> t = { i, { 3, 6 } }; compiles.
Mixing lvalues and rvalues disables the overloads taking T ref, and then U&& cannot work with uniform initialization.
Xeo
Xeo
07:05
yea
0
Q: Why C++ is prefered over Java in Online Programming Contest?

Ravi JoshiMany time I have noticed that C++ is prefered over Java in Online Programming Contest. The question may be ambiguous but I am very keen to know about it. Is there any specific reason for choosing C++? Thank you.

Xeo
Xeo
But wouldn't that require an explosion of 2^N ctor overloads to work, kinda like with const& vs &?
@Xeo I'd rather just take T.... There's always explicit emplacing for ~~~performance~~~.
Xeo
Xeo
Hm
But first let's check that emplacing works recursively.
annex::variant<annex::variant<annex::optional<int>>> v =
    annex::emplace<0>(annex::emplace<0>(annex::emplace(42)));
It's globirous.
Oh... how do inheriting constructors work when taking into account order of initialization?
I see. It's a shortcut for derived(foo f, bar b): base(forward(f), forward(b)) {}. So the other bases get default initialized in the order as usual.
user1357851
07:16
Yes I am on a roll! I am feeling slightly less useless ...
Oh man. If I inherit from a pack, I can't inherit from their constructors right? This sucks so much.
user1357851
Almost starting to like my small plastic droid & Java behind it
Xeo
Xeo
First of all, local class-types aren't allowed to have static data members in general (§9.4.2/5), so that's where your first error comes from. For static data member in a non-local union Clang compiles just fine. — Xeo 20 secs ago
Another discrepancy between GCC and Clang :<
@LucDanton Yea
I think we went over this before, it's the same as wanting to inherit any member function (what immediately comes to mind is operator() for overload). So, recursive inheritence, recursive using it is :/
Fuck, I can't exactly go CRTP in a constructor can I?
static_cast<Derived*>(this) is iffy I think.
Xeo
Xeo
Well, Derived doesn't exist at that point yet, so...
Depends on what you want to do with the casted pointer, I guess?
07:28
Access the storage buffer of a variant :s I need it constructed.
Xeo
Xeo
Well...
So... if instead the Derived is not variant itself but variant_base, then it will be constructed (what with order of declaration of bases), but I can't static_cast across can I?
Xeo
Xeo
struct X : Y, Z<X, Y>, and in Z cast down to X and then up to Y :D
Where Y is your variant
Ya that's what I have right now.
I suspect it's still not okay. Pointer conversions are a big no-no a construction time.
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton You can go down and then up, I think
07:29
Not done being constructed -> can't convert it.
Xeo
Xeo
Hm
I'm checking though, I don't want to second-guess that.
Xeo
Xeo
Hmm... atleast GCC and Clang don't immediately segfault and correctly do what I ask them to. Let's see with clang's sanitizer
@Xeo I don't expect any bad behaviour here. It's all dumb bytes and some initialization. No setting up the dynamic dispatch or initializing virtual bases.
> To explicitly or implicitly convert a pointer (a glvalue) referring to an object of class X to a pointer (reference) to a direct or indirect base class B of X, the construction of X and the construction of all of its direct or indirect bases that directly or indirectly derive from B shall have started and the destruction of these classes shall not have completed, otherwise the conversion results in undefined behavior.
It's actually much less restrictive than I remember. I thought the construction had to be done, but it only has to be started.
I'm not sure what governs downcasts though?
Xeo
Xeo
I have to admit, I couldn't see why it should fail at all. The compiler has all information it needs for the casts. If you don't access anything, you could always cast to Derived, and from there it's just an (implicit) derived-to-base conversion, and the variant_base is already constructed at that point.
Also, wasn't there this "member from base" idiom thingy?
07:36
Don't think that's an option, I want to inherit the constructors.
Xeo
Xeo
Which is used with streambufs?
I meant as an example which uses such casts (or so I remember)
@Xeo Ooooh, never used that. Checking the docs.
Xeo
Xeo
Other way around, "base from member" :P
But that was something other than I remember
I'm confused
Well there's an implicit adjustment of Base -> MostDerived when taking the address of the member. Which happens in a MostDerived constructor.
My issue is that I need to do that adjustment in another base :s
Xeo
Xeo
Yea
Nvm, I should read sentences to the end
07:44
I'm actually thinking that downcasts are not a problem.
Xeo
Xeo
> If you don't access anything, you could always cast to Derived
12.7 goes out of its way to specify invalid things, when objects are in limbo states. Presumably everything not mentioned is correct -- and 5.2.9 Static cast just goes 'blablabla the result refers to the enclosing object of type D'.
So static_cast<Variant*>(this) is fine -- and after that static_cast<Variant*>(this)->storage.address() is okay because the base of which storage is a member has not only started construction (so implicit upcast fine), but is also done (so I can use the address member). See any flaw in the reasoning?
Xeo
Xeo
Nah, although I'd probably do Other& other(){ return static_cast<Variant&>(*this); } and then other().storage.address(), just to be safe.
i.e., making the upcast explicit
Where do you put this that it makes it safer? :p
mawning scrubbins
07:50
hai
I is going to Bristol today
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton It doesn't make things safer (or atleast I don't think so), but I feel better with the explicit upcast.
Xeo
@Xeo It's just the one cast in the one constructor and a using declaration. The CRTP wrapper does nothing else than present a nice constructor.
Xeo
Xeo
Ya?
07:51
who was the other guy who you wanted to champion your proposal?
Xeo
Xeo
Richard Smith
Xeo
Xeo
The Clang guy
@DeadMG Bedazzle them with your showmanship!
aaaaarghhh Clang.
Xeo
Xeo
07:52
@LucDanton I don't mean for the pretties, but because I'm not sure how the standard stands wrt access of base-class members through a pointer to a not fully constructed derived-class.
today I found it generating not just an incorrect signature, but a plain non-ABI conforming function
Xeo
Xeo
lol
how the fuck am I going to call into Clang if it can't generate functions that follow the ABI
@Xeo The whole point of the reasoning was to justify the access :(
k time to debug that mess.
aw
and
why is the new version of itunes even worse than the previous one
what the fuck am I gonna do, Apple, manually import every single music file?
import folder is a kinda important option
07:55
> error| 'annex::variant_detail::variant_constructors<Variant, annex::indices<Indices ...>, Ts ...>::variant_constructors' names constructor in 'annex::variant_detail::variant_constructors<Variant, annex::indices<Index, Indices ...>, T, Ts ...>'
No it doesn't >:(
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton I think the access through the base-class is OK, but I'm simply not sure what about the derived-class, with it not being fully constructed. I have to admit that I didn't read much in that part of the standard yet.
@Xeo It is constructed (the one with the storage member).
This is dumb. I'm going to have to interleave the recursive inheritance.
Xeo
Xeo
wut
There's a bug in my snapshot where if you name the constructor of an inherited base that is a specialization of the same template, then GCC thinks the declaration uses the injected name or some such and refers to the derived specialization.
It's fixed, but that newer snapshot is super broken so.

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