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08:02
Hey hobbyists, I'm a professional!
3
Hey, does slicing cause UB ?
@TonyTheLion I am a professional too
If foo inherits from bar but add no new member (and none are polymorphic), can I simply pass by value a foo where a bar is expected without facing UB ?
After all, I get paid for coding :P
@ereOn No.
@ereOn Yes. Only thing that matters is inheritance. Adding things doesn't matter, polymorphism doesn't matter.
There's a lot of FUD around slicing. It's not toxic or dangerous or anything.
Somehow people get disappointed when they find out they have value semantics.
08:06
@ereOn I learned you can do that a while ago.
Even if it has new members and things.
@LucDanton I searched the standard for "slicing", but there isn't much to be found about it.
It's a term from the community.
ah that makes sense
well you "slice" the derived part off right?
Thanks. That's good news for me :)
08:09
@TonyTheLion Is it possible to be a professional hobbyist?
Also, completely unrelated : can I use enable_if to check if some class has a method ?
^^ It does look a bit like we ganged up on him.
You're a bunch of cyber bullies.
I love you, guys.
lol, I didn't even exist back then. At least not on SO. :)
@ereOn Not as such. That is to say, you can write a trait that does the check then use it with enable_if, or you can move the test directly in wherever you want to check but then you don't need enable_if.
08:12
@LucDanton: Okay. But now that I'm thinking of it, if I'm using the method in the template instanciation, and it doesn't exist, then the template instanciation will just fail, as it would have with enable_if
I may have overthought the whole thing.
Right. The member itself also needs to be a template, because then it can fail independently of the enclosing class template. Tricky huh?
Remember those sausages I bought an hour ago? Jesus, I need to make a data dump.
PUN_TOO_PAINFUL
@ereOn Can you describe what you want to do without saying enable_if? It's an implementation detail.
Sure. Basically, I have a `enumeration_type` class which is the base type for all the enumerations in my program.

I'm trying to write an overload for operator<<(std::ostream&, ...) that only exists for types derived from `enumeration_type`.
08:16
Michael Jackson is dead, don't pretend you give a shit, you motherfucking hypocrites, remember what you said he did. Jon Lajoie still wins.
template <typename Type>
inline std::ostream& operator<<(std::ostream& os, const boost::enable_if<SomeConditionGoesHere, Type>::type& value)
{
  return os << value.to_string();
}
SFINAE by parameter
Mornin Folks!
With concepts-lite, you could go template<typename T> requires is_to_stringable<T>() std::ostream& operator<<(std::ostream& os, T const& value);
too bad we don't have require (yet)
08:18
Until then, I'd use template<typename T, EnableIf<is_to_stringable<T>>...> std::ostream& operator<<(std::ostream& os, T const& value);
Yep
03 or 11?
03 sadly
template<typename T> struct is_to_stringable: boost::is_base_of<base_goes_here, T> {};
Your Type is non-deducible, move the enable_if to the return type.
I.e. typename boost::enable_if<is_to_stringable<Type>, std::ostream&>::type
ok
08:21
@LucDanton : Still at it with the templates and meta programming?
@GamesBrainiac What?
@LucDanton The thing with the ternary operators.
Were you able to come to a solution to the problem that you had?
It wasn't a problem as such.
@LucDanton: Thanks, very nice :) I appreciate it.
@ereOn Btw CRTP may perhaps have been an option as well.
08:23
@LucDanton What were you trying to do, forgive me, but I'm not very good at all of this, but what were you trying to do with the templates and the ternary operators?
It depends what you have the base for.
Just curious, thats all.
@GamesBrainiac I was considering a superior alternative to the proposed resolution of Active Issue 2141 of the Standard Library.
@GamesBrainiac I think you would need to study more to really get it
@LucDanton Ah. Then, it is beyond for me to comprehend.
08:24
Imagine you are a wizard apprentice, going up the spiral stairs to the archmage tower
@BartekBanachewicz I realise that, but atleast sticking with you guys, I get to see what really lies ahead.
and you knock, the doors open, and you're like "hey what's up?"
lol
But I like learning a lot from you guys, Just listening to come of the conversations, I've learnt about Maximal Munch
RDPs
And so much more.
still no variadic templates in vs2012! Are they insane? what was even added at all?
Why do AC/DC songs override my foot while I'm driving?
08:27
@doug65536 Get CTP and stop whining
"whining?"
@Xeo Hey, I'm rewriting concepts. Unfortunately that means I'm changing some foo: bar, baz to foo: And<bar, baz>. Same information, but more verbose. Don't think there's a way out of this do you?
@DomagojPandža whoa CTP 2
Someone should sticky a message saying there is Update 2 CTP 4.
user142019
¡Hola!
08:30
or is there nothing new C++ about it?
user1182183
@Zoidberg so, how's zoidlang?
2
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton Ehm, I have no idea how your concepts looked before. :/ Anyways, bar(), baz() with overloaded operator,? :D
user142019
@GamErix :P
@Xeo Oh, I thought you were familiar with Boost.Concepts. Those are base lists.
08:32
Mainly fixes
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton Nope, sorry, never used it.
That's good
It usually goes template<typename T> struct Foo: Bar<T>, Baz<T> {}; which makes Foo a conjunction of Bar and Baz.
Useless for me, though, I'm in LLVM land with XCode
Xeo
Xeo
Ah, for defining concepts?
08:34
That works for hard-errors (i.e. if either Bar<T> or Baz<T> is ill-formed, so is Foo<T>). I'm turning it into soft-errors. So, essentially traits.
Anyone know where I can get help on Automata Theory?
Xeo
Xeo
How exactly does, say, Baz<T> become ill-formed?
@Xeo C++03-style static assertion in class def.
(Or devious treachery.)
I hate the damn iOSification of OS X and the AppStore and account dependency on software update.
Xeo
Xeo
Hm... can't you change the inside of that to be SFINAE friendly? Or is that the Boost part?
You may even be able to turn the hard-error into a soft-error, I'll look into that later.
I need to get going soon
08:37
@Xeo Putting aside the matter of the code inside Boost, then how would foo: bar, baz work? :p
I want to turn hard errors into soft errors, not remove errors altogether!
@GamesBrainiac for computer science stuff, I usually put "stanford" then the topic in google: coursera.org/course/automata
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton Hmm...
@Xeo No SFINAE performed on class templates.
I still get chills from this scene.
@DomagojPandža IMHO AC 1 & 2 were awesome. AC 3 sucks.
08:42
@GamesBrainiac if you mean for parsing, this online course covers a lot about it
typename Convertible<T>::template From<U> looks ridiculous, why did I think that was a good idea.
@doug65536 I just wanted a question answered about automate. About kleen closures and regular expressions.
https://i.sstatic.net/FlCsy.jpg
You want chilling?
Java installation looks to me like a giant "virus detected" popup.
It popped up rudely over the top of my edits.
08:44
@LucDanton I have been wondering about that for ages, actually.
Same here. :D
@doug65536 : The thing is, whenever you have a kleene closure, you add an extra state before the initial state, and you just map epsilon transitions onto it.
@R.MartinhoFernandes No you haven't!
@LucDanton It haunts Robot's dreams.
I started that thing with with_signature, and I don't use those in a dependent context so I still think they're fine.
08:45
@LucDanton I have. I just never managed to form a coherent reasoning to tell you how weird it looks.
user1182183
hm I know what T is, but what is U?
user1182183
type?
FFS even the concepts-lite proposal is doing the same thing.
user1182183
int, float, bla...
08:46
If you do template<Invokable<void()> Functor> it transforms that to template<typename Functor> requires Invokable<Functor, void()>()
So there!
(Yeah they're not the same way around but same principle.)
@GamesBrainiac i.stanford.edu/~ullman/focs/ch10.pdf looks applicable
Listen to the audio at 0:10 of that video. The blip from SO's chat can be heard. Or I'm imagining things. :$
@R.MartinhoFernandes More seriously though it's me working around the lack of type-level currying. It's all about higher-order kinds! I want to list all the properties of a type as a list of * -> * partial concepts. Makes sense?
-5
Q: developing a program that will auto add a shoe to my cart with a pre-detemrined size once I click on the nike link?

user2134057I'm trying to develop a program that will auto add a shoe to my cart with a pre-determined size once I click on the twitter link it would be a google chrome extension do i need to use java?

I love shoes.
08:50
One older design of mine was to have RequiresOf<T, CopyConstructible, MoveAssignable, /* moar */> clauses, one for each constrained parameter. Yes, that attempt was using template template parameters. But I think the parallel with concepts-lite is now very explicit.
Guys, I was just thinking, do you ever feel... Weird in your skin? Like you don't belong in it? I get that from time to time when I wake up.
Just plain uncomfortable for no apparent reason.
OMG you're an otherkin.
What ahahah
@doug65536 : Thanks a lot man, but not what I was looking for. Here, they tell you that you need to add an extra state when it comes to a kleene closure, but does not explain why. I know what to do when a * comes but, I just don't get why, because functionality wise, with or without an extra state, you have the same results.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I require more time between the subsequent wtfs you're producing today lol.
08:52
What do you mean by that?
You're going fast :p
> error: invalid use of incomplete type ▒struct wheels::deduced▒
(Ugh, I still haven't fixed that encoding crap.)
This is so damn amazing. :$
How to prevent oneboxing? :(
There.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Surely the root cause of this one is easy to find.
THE SNOW
IT'S MELTING
AAAAAAAAAH
08:55
@DomagojPandža TMI?
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think I've made a very good case for myself! Do keep trying to find that reasoning.
Look, people, Cicada is alive.
Also hi
Good morning!
08:56
Ah, adding a dummy query
@DomagojPandža Yup. Filetype detection is ... kinda lame. Likewise, if you get 'pretty' urls, tack on ?.png just to hint oneboxing
Ugh, apparently I suck at TMP.
IMPOSSIBRU
> wtb internship
> pm offers
> disable cicada
08:59
:no:
I think there are roughly 3 real grandmasters of TMP here, that would include the robot, Luc and Xeo. Then there is a bunch of "regional champions" (which would include the Schaubs and many others, maybe including the puppy) and then there is the rest of us who know enough to not attempt silliness without enlisting advice (me, and sooo many others).
@Cicada Well. What does this all mean?!
s/grandmasters/grandfappers/
templates... eww....
11
Q: Pointer arithmetic across subobject boundaries

Stephen LinDoes the following code (which performs pointer arithmetic across subobject boundaries) have well-defined behavior for types T for which it compiles (which, in C++11, does not not necessarily have to be POD) or any subset thereof? #include <cassert> #include <cstddef> template<ty...

woah
I don't even understand the question
too lazy
09:00
@Cicada Don't worry, you're a runner up for the Pretty Princess award. :P
No! I'm a boy now!
Whoaaa. This is so many flavours of nasty humour:
> DRM Chair that can only be used 8 times hackaday.com/2013/03/04/drm-chair-only-works-8-times (before selfdestruct)
@Cicada Precisely
@sehe That I realized I have 3 months holidays this summer
contextually_convertible_to_bool<T> == is_constructible<bool, T>?
@LucDanton on a spur, I'd say cc_t_b<T> implies i_c<b, T> but not inversely
09:04
Time to check.
I'm trying hard to thing of a counter example
@sehe Takes way too long for it to fall apart. :D
@DomagojPandža Haven't watched it, really. Just the mere concept is interesting
> An expression e appearing in such a context is said to be contextually converted to bool and is well-formed if and only if the declaration bool t(e); is well-formed, for some invented temporary variable t (8.5).
(That means yes.)
Mmm. Nah. A counter example would require a custom /*implicit*/bool::bool(T) right
Xeo
Xeo
09:06
is_constructible was explicit, is_convertible was implicit, right?
right
Oh, god, I hate Objective-C
You should mention that more often
I don't like when I depend on an automagic runtime.
09:06
static_assert(not ogonek::detail::same_encoding<text8, text8, text8>::value, "oops, I think I found out the mistake");
Xeo
Xeo
lol
something something substitution pattern ::value slash () slash
@R.MartinhoFernandes only funny if the assert fires
TMP debugging looks like ground zero Hiroshima.
@LucDanton Won't work there since that trait is still hacked up and does not conform whistles.
09:08
something something you suck
@LucDanton whoa. You mean s/\(\)// - that took me forever to figure out
user1357851
Had this PC for 2 years, never used CD burner, now I have no idea how to use it
@DomagojPandža Except that the fallout hasn't subsided yet
struct is_contextually_convertible_to_bool seems like a mouthful and an eyesore :/
@Telkitty trolol. Try a zippo lighter
09:09
@LucDanton is_boolable!
;)
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe No, exactly opposite - notice the not at the beginning.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was just about to say that!
@LucDanton I like it. One should really only need it in specific circumstances. And it says exactly what it intends. I like it.
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton is_conditionable :D
@Xeo Oh. That again. That particular style of negation foiled me once before. Grrr.
user1357851
09:10
I bought this with everything installed, I should have the tool somewhere ... I might accidently deleted it because I have this habit of downloading random free softwares, try them out and delete them :x
@sehe I'm annoyed by the _to_bool. There's only one kind of 'contextually convertible' right now.
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe See, that's why I use == false when I want to be explicit! /cc @LucDanton
@sehe I use it so the ! does not go unnoticed :/
@LucDanton And the 'right now' is the crux of the matter
Hey everyone!
09:11
Sticking with the sesquipedalian name.
is_sesquipedalian
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, yeah. It's just that I'm trained for C++ and I tend to notice !. not not so much. Actually, (not bla) makes my brain stop for a second.
Oh so VS11 Update 2 has a blue theme? I must get it
user1357851
also had this Mac for 2 years and not knowing how to use the cd burner
09:12
is_supercalifragilistic_expialidocious<T>
@Cicada You can't. It's an enterprise feature. You must pay
nooooooooooooooo
Haha, turns out that specialization I deleted because it looked like a dupe, wasn't.
Xeo
Xeo
heh
@R.MartinhoFernandes Good thing we have asserts.... oh wait
Visual Studio 2012 Update 2 CTP 4 microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=36833
6
^ more descriptive for the starboard /cc @DomagojPandža
user1357851
@sehe or you can start a startup, register for Microsoft BizSpark and get it for free with 100+ other softwares
09:16
Did Update 1 get fixed already?
@Cicada Oh god, please, not updates to the updates
inb4 updateception
@sehe "Provides bug fixes for C++" etc
user1357851
My app biz got $5000+ free software from Microsoft for being one of their millions partners
@sehe There :D
user1357851
09:18
Microsoft is very good with relationship building
Microsoft can suck ma dick, no strings attached.
user1357851
Microsoft > Apple as far as partnership goes
The CTP is 816 MB.
Fuck 'em all > Valve > Microsoft > Apple > EA
Jeez.
user1357851
09:19
Apple's strategy of forcing people buying their newest products is pissing me off
Concepts-lite has Equality_comparable. Why not just Comparable?
what if it's less than comparable
I don't know.
Xeo
Xeo
Pah, those fuckers closed my bug report as "deferred". :(
@LucDanton I think "comparable" by itself conveys the wrong idea.
user1357851
I have iphone 3, and Apple is making it useless because it can. Well guess what, I am just going to move away from Apple products/stop making iPhone apps because I used to test my apps on 2 phones, now only 1 phone.
09:21
@Xeo lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't disagree. I'm going with Ordered for relational ops.
Xeo
Xeo
And they changed how the description is displayed.
That was beautifully formatted code before. :|
Well, if you're a successful, you can afford a new phone, dammit.
user1357851
If I am successful I can be doing anything, don't you think?
user1357851
Besides I am not Apple fan boy
09:22
The concepts of the proposal do an okay job as not just being traits, except perhaps for that one.
user1357851
not interested in contribute to their revenue, now I have the option to develop for Android and Window's phone also, which I already do
I'm not anyone's fanboy. I just care who pays the most and how much ROI is there.
fanbois~
I think the name is just tricky to get right. EquivalentClassable? I mean, some just use Eq. How does that convey semantics at all?
Fortunately, I just go around all of them, I just solve other people's backend problems and let them fail on the mobile market because their idea is shit.
09:24
sugoi~
But I don't tell them that, am I morally wrong?
@DomagojPandža Who cares as long as you're financially right.
user1357851
Attended Microsoft Partner summit today here.
@MartinJames True.
@Cicada Just watched an anime episode?
09:25
@Telkitty Oh, I'm so sorry..
I've never been to these conferences people like to attend. They seem so full of it.
user1357851
Well, I think it is cool to develop one's own idea into a product and let thousands if not millions people using it.
The only one I'll ever attend is GDC, if I get a good reason why.
@DomagojPandža The investment banks didn't care about morals, why should you?
user1357851
@MartinJames not the whole thing, I was more interested in Windows Phone & Window 8 stuff, so stayed for like 3 hours :p
09:27
@DomagojPandža Sometimes there's free food/beer.
> Required
> Strong C# and .NET skills
> Silverlight or WPF experience
> Understanding of Multi-Threading <=== what
@Telkitty OK, GO!
@Cicada My cat is good with multiple threads.
@Cicada What's so weird about that?
user1357851
@MartinJames Already did, got a free mug too :p Not that I have any use for it
09:28
Muti-threading? Computers can do two things at once?? Since when..? o.O
If there was no multithreading, I would be unable to get those Adobe java-update popups.... sounds like a plan.
yes
morning
stackoverflow.com/users/560648/… - check out my rep tab for yesterday (4th March) and today
that's one hell of a serial downvoting run
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Who did you piss off this time?
09:31
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah I got tired after a while
user1357851
I'll continue tomorrow
To be fair, he only said "Morning", no "Good" mentioned.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just to make sure, you're saying that because concepts should be about semantics and not just what operations are there or not?
std::vector<Structure> is an invalid template
09:36
This piano sequence is so powerful. :$
Xeo
Xeo
> This one goes to 11. Petawatts, in this case.
You just gotta love xkcd.
I wished he'd put a link to TVTropes in that sentence.
@LucDanton No, because I think "comparable" gives the idea of op<
@R.MartinhoFernandes k
meh
I don't understand boost::recursive_wrapper at all :|
@TonyTheLion y u need it?
09:43
@DomagojPandža I was trying to solve a question with it, but I have no idea what I'm doing
user142019
Herro.
What the l?
To all the people who post YouTube videos and make screeching intros with their username on screen. FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU. AND FUCK EVERYONE YOU KNOW.
Damn, calm down.
How do you do strikethrough
Triple dashes.
09:46
Explosions
Fizzles---
user1357851
Moo cowz
??
test
OOhh!
Thanks @cicada - always wanted to do that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Now I know how to do it, there'll be no opportunity to do so:(
<strike>struck?</strike>
nope, not like that :S
user1357851
read above:
user1357851
09:56
it is:
user1357851
--- () --- <==no space

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