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15:00
Ok I the thing is I want the Positions to be 0,0 at Top Left Corner not at the middle of the screen at the same time I want to use depth buffer — user2028359 4 mins ago
is this English?
I can't make sense of it
@TonyTheLion typical wannabe-gamedev english
also what does depth buffer use have to do with positioning something on the screen?
You tell me. It's DirectX question.
user142019
@CatPlusPlus hmm maybe it's something for the Robot.
@BartekBanachewicz I wish I knew, those two functions do similar things, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily related
15:02
@TonyTheLion Someday I will probably learn DirectX.
Amazing, JavaScript, the language of the Web, will finally have "Full Unicode String Support".
bad for being late, good for doing it anyway, right?
And by that it means, everything works the same, but now there's an additional function in String objects called codepointAt for getting code point-based random-access into the still UTF-16 strings.
user142019
lol
Regexes still operate on code units.
slice still operates on code units.
In few words, they added the least useful functionality.
user142019
15:05
Write your own text type!
What does everyone have against UTF-16?
@MartinJames Nothing.
user142019
Port Ogonek to JavaScript. :P
@MartinJames It's not about the UTF-16, it's about things like regexes operating on code units.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I just imagined what problems it can have. Oooh.
15:08
Internal encoding of a string should not leak into client code
Is anyone here familiar with creating arbitrary parsers for .dat files?
user142019
I just went to a museum.
They slapped in codepointAt (which is useless), String.fromCodepoint, and called it a day.
But they totally added getters and setters so it's a better language now
user142019
@AgainstASicilian what kind of .dat files. There are ten billion trillion gazillion different formats that use .dat.
15:09
The only really good thing seems to be that you can now use code point escapes in literals.
lol
Stop YELLING AND BOLDFACING your text. We can find the important parts of your post without RANDOM EMPHASIS. — Nicol Bolas 18 mins ago
No need to use surrogates manually for bananas.
user142019
Use Parsec.
Ugh manual surrogates
I had to do that for that upboat/downpoo script
15:11
Yeah, JS has "Unicode escapes", but those are actually UTF-16 code unit escapes, so a banana is "\uD83C\uDF4C". They added "\u{1F34C}" now.
But seriously ahaha this is "The Refined Parts"
user142019
@AgainstASicilian remove using namespace std; or gtfo.
Alright but what about the actual parsing?
user142019
It still says using namespace std; so no.
Half-arsed Unicode implementation, syntax sugar for destructuring, local scoping, getters and setters (ahahaha), string interpolation and argument packing/unpacking (signatures are probably still useless), oh my WeakMap when there's no weak references anywhere else, and Map (what the fuck seriously)
JavaScript status: still bad
ugh FUCK my test fails
Good morning peeeeps.
user142019
That's like Python--.
@CatPlusPlus I said it's better, not good.
Except not really
15:15
@CatPlusPlus Is coffeescript any good?
@Zoidberg using namespace dts = std; using namespace dts; better? :3
I still consider this language inferior
user142019
@StackedCrooked It's better but still shit (especially the fact that diagnostics are completely useless due to line number mismatch).
Local scoping is practically the only thing here that actually makes the language better
@StackedCrooked It's better than raw js
@CatPlusPlus ha!
15:16
@R.MartinhoFernandes hmm... now I want to know. always just assumed it was 'core data', as in the kernal ram and perhaps cpu state... or something along those lines. Shut up for now, edumacating myself
@thecoshman Nope. It comes from ferrite core memory, of the olden days.
@thecoshman PLEB
@StackedCrooked vOv I don't use it
@thecoshman Amazing that there are plebs today that don't know what ferrite core is.
Why the hate for namespace std?
Magnetic-core memory was the predominant form of random-access computer memory for 20 years (circa 1955–75). It uses tiny magnetic toroids (rings), the cores, through which wires are threaded to write and read information. Each core represents one bit of information. The cores can be magnetized in two different ways (clockwise or counterclockwise) and the bit stored in a core is zero or one depending on that core's magnetization direction. The wires are arranged to allow an individual core to be set to either a "one" or a "zero", and for its magnetization to be changed, by sending approp...
user142019
15:17
@AgainstASicilian namespaces exist for a reason.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah, that is not what you asked for.
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes thank you, I know of that ram tech
@thecoshman It is. That is what "core" in "core dump" means: it's a dump of the ferrite core memory.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Like 99% of the world population.
What I'd like to hear is why people should know about obsolete crap
@R.MartinhoFernandes so core dump contains nothing these days?
15:18
No, it contains everything
@R.MartinhoFernandes no, what you answered is 'where does the term core dump come from'
Which makes it problematic to use
user142019
@CatPlusPlus because C++ is still widely used!
but if there is no ferrite core, surely the core dump doesn't exist~
@thecoshman What
15:19
@AgainstASicilian we love namespace std. We hate using namespace std;
@melak47 The term just continued to be used long after its etymologic source was superseeded.
Sometimes I really wonder if I speak the same English
@CatPlusPlus the 'core' in core dump is means 'ram and cpu state', it comes from old fashioned ferrite core ram.
wow, I got 100 rep today for two answers. Sweet
user142019
@melak47 be also still call bugs bugs even though there are no real bugs (unless there are, which is unlikely unless you're a moron and have no case).
15:20
@thecoshman No, it means the old-fashioned memory thing
thus, I was more or less right with regards to what a core dump actually dumps, and never made a guess as to where the term comes from
Terminological inertia.
You really do speak another language
@CatPlusPlus no, that is where the term comes from, it is not what a 'core dump' means. People did not use 'core dump ram'
Ruby vulnerabilities are now an industry gemcanary.com
15:21
Robot asked what "core" in "core dump" means, not what core dump is
user142019
It's an old term still in use deal with it.
@Zoidberg the only bugs that end up in my case have usually been shredded by a fan :E
@CatPlusPlus what it means is not the same as where it comes from, pleb
15:22
@Zoidberg The point was that he should not look down at people because they never heard about some long obsolete tech he happened to use (floppy disks)
etymology != definition
These terms just stick. That's why JavaScript, SQL and PHP are called 'Computer Languages' in the media.
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh come one, they are not that old
They haven't been common for like 15 years
I've used floppy disks. the non floppy kind.
15:24
Okay, 10
When CD writers became cheap
I've also used windows 3.1.1
Seems like nobody in my question is able to answer what I'm after; does anyone know how to scan a text file until it matches some template (e.g. ##:## or #:##) and then output that + everything up until the text is no longer alphanumeric/space/colon/period/etc? (newline delimited)
user142019
I have used Windows 95.
@melak47 Who didn't
user142019
@AgainstASicilian write a parser.
15:25
Sweet
Support of Hotspots, General Exploration and Bandwidth viewpoints for upcoming 4th generation Intel® Core™ processors based on the Intel microarchitecture code name Haswell
That's what the question is about
user142019
It ain't rocket science.
@CatPlusPlus idk
Zoidberg
Hello people. Is this the chat to hang around in for C? I noticed there's a C chat but it seems pretty dead.
@Lundin No, it isn't.
15:25
@Lundin No. It clearly states "C++"
user142019
Oldest version of Windows that I have used was Windows 95. I pirated it half a year ago to play The Neverhood.
The place to hang around in for C is the C chat room.
also, 'pleb' (whilst used as) is not a derogatory term, it is short of plebeian or people. So to be surprised that people are already forgetting about 3.5" disks is not the same as think said people should be rounded up and slaughtered
Floppies were great, especially the 8" ones. Fantastic frisbees. You could decapitate managers from across the office.
That it is dead is another issue altogether.
15:26
@BartekBanachewicz Hotspots? Exploring? Bandwidth viewpoints? wat?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Damn trying to ruin my entire self image and self worth! :-)
@thecoshman No really it's not derogatory at all
@Zoidberg I wonder how much MS would charge you if you asked?
@melak47 New update for VTune
You totally don't use it to feel better than other people
user142019
15:26
@thecoshman They don't sell it anymore so they must not whine.
@BartekBanachewicz Vwhat?
@JerryCoffin I was wondering when you would show up. I am sure you can come up with better examples than my half-arsed one :)
@melak47 Intel VTune Profiler
@Zoidberg ah, but have you tried windows 8 it has all these great features, non of which you want
@Zoidberg s/whine/wine/
user142019
15:27
I'm using Windows 8 right now.
In British, Irish, Australian, New Zealand and South African English the back-formation pleb, along with the more recently derived adjectival form plebby, is used as a derogatory term for someone considered unsophisticated or uncultured.
user142019
Only because Visual Studio. :v
I used 'Windows for Workgroups'. It worked, mostly.
@thecoshman I believe you use one of British or Irish English.
user142019
My first computer ran Windows 98.
15:28
Coshglish
@R.MartinhoFernandes What? Like: "Anybody who hasn't programmed a mainframe with 300 users sharing one 10 MHz processor isn't a real man"? :-)
@Zoidberg Oh, I'm so sorry :(
@R.MartinhoFernandes huh?
user142019
My second computer ran Windows XP and my third one ran/runs OS X \o/.
@thecoshman See quote above.
15:28
You people are all awfully young.
@R.MartinhoFernandes this one @thecosh
My first computer was a 286 with DOS 4.0.
Some people are awfully old. Amazing, isn't it?
@Lundin Who are you calling young?
Yeah I'm 32, retirement is not far away.
15:29
@Lundin At least it wasn't a Motorola 68000...
Probably not me :(
user142019
@Lundin wat.
user142019
When do you retire?
@Lundin that was mine first computer too
Hey I've programmed 68000 too. It's a nice one.
user142019
15:29
In my country it's usual that you retire at 67.
@Zoidberg When you get sarcasm.
Which is never
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm, that's pretty old.
@R.MartinhoFernandes TIL
user142019
Sarcasm y u so difficult to detect on Internet.
15:30
@thecoshman That's fine. At least now you understand why we were up in arms about it.
And here we have @thecoshman in his natural habitat, using words he doesn't know the meaning of
2
@BartekBanachewicz I had one too. After a couple years, I could only get the 10MB hard disk to boot by adjusting the tension on its mounting screws.
@Lundin Sorry
ugh damn this shit. I am getting totally random GL_INVALID_ENUM from inside of the framework
Hmm, what should ogonek::any_text t; do? Should it even be allowed?
15:33
Nah
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
@BartekBanachewicz Use gDEBugger and find out where from.
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes I can't think of any default and picking one would be a weird assumption IMO.
Damn thing has weird capitalisation in the name.
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's not my framework! I am afraid to even look inside (still in work)
15:35
Or initialise with some arbitrarily picked text<> that's empty I guess
@R.MartinhoFernandes So skip the caps and just call it "gugger".
user142019
Use a random number generator to pick an encoding and replacement strategy.
Oooh! I like that! My next app will be called 'Gugger', no matter what it does.
After test execution glGetError() returned: 1280, forcing FAIL for subcase
Very helpful.
Ok. Do you think stating the only valid operations on a moved-from any_text are assignment and destructions is acceptable (i.e. not even and .empty() query is valid) ?
user142019
15:37
Maybe the platform's default.
Eww OpenGL. I'd rather program Motorola 68000 any day.
It sounds like something very vulgar in at least one world language.
@CatPlusPlus I know the meaning, just not how the young kids are abusing it
15:38
@Zoidberg Nah, I'm disallowing it. I think requiring something like any_text t = text<utf8>{}; is fine for initialisation.
@R.MartinhoFernandes: Is moved from any_text really that hollow? :) It sounds like .empty() should work.
OpenGL is evil.
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes that seems logical since there isn't really a default encoding that's best in most cases.
@wilx I don't know. With the current implementation empty() won't work. To make it work it gets a tad more complicated (I need to implement virtual moves).
user784668
@Zoidberg UTF-128!
15:40
@wilx So I am wondering if that extra effort is worth it.
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes is it common to use (as in, anything but destruct) moved-from objects? I have never seen it done (then again, I don't have much C++ experience).
@Zoidberg Assignment and destruction are the most common operations.
user784668
@Zoidberg Yes, ^
Apparently I've found another bug.
@Lundin well, maybe. I like it
user1182183
15:42
For programmers who are new to OOP, it is highly recommended that you go to Amazon or a bookstore and buy an introductory book on Java programming. Java is very similar to UnrealScript, and is an excellent language to learn about due to its clean and simple approach.
Assignment, destruction and copy construction :) Them big three. Even an old C programmer like me knows that one.
user1182183
Y u serious, java, why not C++ xD
user142019
Because Java is so OO and therefore so good and maps so well to many OO idioms.
Java is easy
Say, you have a vector<any_text> v ...; and whatever = std::move(v[0]);. I don't think it's a stretch to think someone might want assert(v[0].empty()) after that.
15:43
Just like <insert name>'s mom
user784668
Java is easy to get wrong.
I'd agree about Java to learn OOP. It is so much cleaner and prettier than C++.
Not this again
user142019
Prefer C# at least.
@Fanael Lol unlike C++?
15:43
@Fanael Unicode version 27: introducing UTF-8192, able to encode all the characters of the basic multigalactic plane...
Of course, they can just v[0] = text<utf16>{}; and fix it, but that is the question: is it acceptable to require that for that scenario?
user142019
C++ is easier to get right than Java.
Well, C# is better certainly, even for beginners
user784668
@Lundin Given that most people use C with classes, not C++, despite calling it C++… yes.
Xeo
Xeo
@JerryCoffin With multiple character-wise redundancy!
@R.MartinhoFernandes How is it that you can't easily implement empty?
15:45
@Fanael I wouldn't agree. Templates and STL is very easy to get wrong. And when you do... compiler error window EXPLUSHION.
@Xeo any_text is a class { unique_ptr<eraser> p; }
@Xeo Same thing as with default construction
user142019
I always assume any moved-from object to be in invalid state similar to an uninitialized primitive, and can thus only be assigned or destructed.
user784668
@Lundin How did you determine that Stephan is very easy to get wrong?
@Xeo If I want moves to leave the moved-from empty() I need to either: pick a default text<?> to fill it in manually; or implement type-erased moves.
15:46
Or null-check p
@Fanael Que? Stephan who?
But then it's lying a bit
user784668
@Lundin T. Lavavej.
@CatPlusPlus Right, but that only makes empty usable. You cannot append now!
Yeah
It's nonexistent not empty
15:46
I am using empty as an example only, because it's the simplest to think about.
@Lundin STL are Stephan initials
@Lundin that's so C++03
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, lying in a bad way, because it basically makes empty() == true mean "no invariants whatsoever hold!"
When I learnt STL it wasn't part of the C++ standard. So don't go throw silly acronym jokes at me!
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, sounds sensible to require assignment or .reset<encoding>().
@R.MartinhoFernandes: Hmm, I did not realize it was similar to boost::any. I guess that in that case it is ok to document that moved from any_text is invalid for anything but assignment and destruction.
user142019
15:48
@Lundin Well what do you want? Potential runtime error that you'll never find?
user784668
@Lundin It still isn't.
@R.MartinhoFernandes What, you can't do type-erased moves?
@DeadMG I can but effort.
:P
@Lundin well C++ is changing, you know. We have our own standard library. Time to get from under the rock
@Zoidberg Nah I prefer no errors at all, honestly.
15:48
well
user142019
@Lundin use PHP.
how the fuck else did you implement moves for any_text?
as a copy?
(and not cheap!)
Just move the pointer
user142019
Isn't it just moving a unique ptr?
15:49
@DeadMG Moving the unique_ptr (i.e. = default).
user784668
@Zoidberg A potential runtime error that your customers will find. Customers are beta-testers, after all.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Isn't an any_text which has no unique_ptr member empty()?
Type erased moves would still involve newing.
@DeadMG We just talked about this
hmm
yeah I see your problem.
Xeo
Xeo
15:50
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait, can't you move just the underlying storage?
@DeadMG I could make it easily, but that makes it harder to hold all the invariants without special casing on every method.
@Xeo Into a newed up object.
I only program in C++ when the need whips me towards the front of a PC. Luckily I mainly write programs that are to be code compatible with embedded firmware in C, so I get away with a lot of "C with classes" :)
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Derp, right.
15:50
well
It's not that I can't get it to work.
I think that's an interface problem.
Oh no the embedded sphere is invading us
It's just that I wonder if it's worth the effort.
It's not an interface problem
15:51
really, any_text is basically boost::any, but the object has to have the correct interface which you then erase.
just like std::function.
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't see how a moved-from any_text would have empty() return true. It's more like, "nothing" than "empty" as in "I represent absolutely nothing because I've been moved from."
just say that if any_text is empty, then the other member functions are UB (unless you explicitly choose to special-case some of them like size() maybe).
boost::any has an unsable empty state.
Duh C++ invaded the embedded sphere first. With their evil virtual inheritance tables and 5 pages long STL compiler error logs.
Which is different from having an empty string inside it.
15:52
right
@DeadMG Oh. Wait, I get what you mean. Yeah, that's what I have now.
We couldn't care less about embedded sorry
@Zoidberg Pay attention
so the question is, do you want the std::function approach, or do you want to take a more boost::variant-style never-empty approach.
@Zoidberg Moving a string leaves you an empty string. Moving a vector leaves you an empty vector. Moving a text<E> leaves you an empty text.
@CatPlusPlus Hard to ignore it, since you have around 100 embedded computers in your house and car. And they are written in bloody C, muahaha...
user784668
15:53
@Lundin Proof needed.
FYI you don't have to use virtual member functions to write proper C++
@DeadMG I think I am going for never-empty-ish, i.e., valid + moved-from.
user784668
@CatPlusPlus He talk about virtual inheritance. Which is even better.
user142019
I don't like that. :P
In fact it's rare to need it
15:53
@Lundin I think we still don't give a crap
And errors are when you're bad so
@Fanael Just remove all printed circuit boards from your car then count the QFP and BGA packages. They are likely CPUs.
user784668
@Lundin ENOPROOF
And yeah I could swim in embedded devices and I still don't care what they're running
Thinking about the underlying machine results in a bad code~
user142019
@Lundin I've been told my car radio's software was written in :Java:! You're wrong!
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: We really, really don't care. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [hot-springs] [no-helpdesk]
2
Oh FFS. Firefox now has built-in PDF reader.
@R.MartinhoFernandes: Crazy idea: Have special text<> static instance that represents empty string in any encoding. That would make valid more operations (like size()). Though I have no idea how that would work with the unique_ptr<>.
How the fuck do I disable the crappy PDF reader.
@Zoidberg That's just a PC with another flavour.
15:56
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's... bad?
user142019
@CatPlusPlus s/about the underlying machine //
@CatPlusPlus It's crappy.
I can't even collapse bookmarks.
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes pacman -Rns firefox
15:57
Eep gtg.
return 0;
@Lundin anyway, except PIC chips, everything embedded supports C++ now, AFAIC
@TonyTheLion album not bad
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz But everything is written in C.
@BartekBanachewicz As Far As You Care?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3097779/decltype-and-parenthesis

Can anyone tell me what is this FCD (§7.6.1.2/4) the person asking this question is referring to? Is it a book? An online manual? What is it?
@thecoshman :)
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz Including, you know, all the stuff that isn't.
@thecoshman it's slow and I can only hear first 33 seconds of songs
meh
I don't really have anything against a built-in reader per se, but I have when said reader has a worse experience than just downloading and opening the PDF externally.
@ChosenTorture spec I assume (the C++ one I furhte rassume)
@TonyTheLion huh?
15:59
@ChosenTorture C++ Standard?
@thecoshman do you have to pay?
@ChosenTorture Final Committee Draft
@R.MartinhoFernandes oooh, but this is in the browser
I also haven't figured out yet how to resize the bookmark sidebar.
ARgdfhrd.
@TonyTheLion shouldn't do... but lag can suck some times
15:59
fuck it, can't be arsed
@R.MartinhoFernandes try chrome dude :P
@TonyTheLion :P
@BartekBanachewicz http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/

Is it this?
@Fanael ohwell. No shit, huh?

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