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20:00
Oh my god, I hate quizzicals.
Reminds me of what a prof once told me: a good exam is one which has some sort of difficulty curve.
user142019
I checked B, which is the correct answer.
So you have both incredibly easy and incredibly hard questions, with anything in between.
user142019
But what about ints? Are they objects?
That way it's easier to clearly identify who's good and who isn't.
20:00
@EtiennedeMartel The easy questions make sure everybody gets through.
@Zoidberg No.
@Zoidberg yes (according to C++, not according to OO)
user142019
Okay. :P Then the question is valid.
@Zoidberg The question does not ask about ints.
@EtiennedeMartel You sure about that?
user142019
20:01
@FredOverflow the question asks about equality of "object" and "instance of a class".
No, it asks "If we instantiate a class, what do we get?".
user142019
Depends on how you read it. :P
@FredOverflow At the university I went to, your grade depends on the mean and the standard deviation. So, since everyone gets the easy questions, if you only get those, you're pretty much guaranteed to get fucked in the end.
That's what I hate about quizzicals, they're always ambiguous. They should let you write programs instead to prove that you can actually write programs.
user142019
Okay </pedant-mode>.
20:02
@Zoidberg every instance of class is an object, but not the other way!
@Zoidberg so scan it
What Bartek said.
In C++, an object is a region of storage.
Don't know about Jaba.
@EtiennedeMartel Interesting concept. What if only one person writes the test? :)
user142019
2. Which statement is true?
A. A primitive datatype consists of other primitive datatypes.
B. You can make a primitive datatype using the `new` operator.
C. A primitive datatype has no methods.
D. A primitive datatype is a number.
20:03
@rubenvb In Java, an object is an instance of a class.
user142019
@MooingDuck it's in Dutch.
@Zoidberg C
@Zoidberg equality is only implied in the question
@MooingDuck This is about jaba
user142019
I'll skip the obviously correct questions.
20:04
Was that one obviously correct or not? :)
@rubenvb Interestingly, it is a region of storage with a type.
user142019
Yes. :P
user142019
int x;
x = 1; // assignment or initialization?
@FredOverflow ah yes
@Zoidberg assignment
20:04
> Not everything in Java is an object.
user142019
@MooingDuck okay, then it's correct.
Ah is this Java? That's why the last question was confusing.
@MooingDuck yet x is uninitialized until assignment...
@Zoidberg Looks like assignment to me.
@rubenvb incorrect (at least for C++)
@rubenvb it was initialized to an undefined value
20:05
Yay, I got Hyrule Historia!
user142019
6. What is meant by the state of an object?
C. The variables declared directly in the class.
@rubenvb new Integer(5) is not idiomatic Java. It is idiotic Java.
@Zoidberg Only one answer? :)
user142019
I'd say the combination of all values of those.
user142019
@FredOverflow no, it's the one that is "correct".
@MooingDuck Then why does GCC always complain about "blabla may be used unitialized in this function"?
20:06
@Zoidberg Yes, that would make more sense. Also, if you have references, you may have to take the state of the referenced objects into account as well.
@rubenvb it uses colloquial wording instead of technically accurate wording in that case.
@FredOverflow Idiotic Jaba is idiotic. <- FTFY
@MooingDuck The bastard.
user142019
@FredOverflow Good point. Will note. >:D
@ScottW Oh yes.
@EtiennedeMartel Don't think I'm weird -- but I've already seen this.
20:07
Team Foundation Server supports Git for version control in VS2012 CTP2 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudioalm/archive/2013/01/30/getting-started-with-git-in-visual-studio-and-team-foundation-service.aspx
^ Whoa. Revolution
@ScottW Still haven't made it to that part of the stack
lol, @sehe just stole my story
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah. I was flustered for 15 seconds when I saw it, scrambled for my twitter account (how did it work again)
@ScottW alf?
@MooingDuck lololol
@MooingDuck lol
20:15

Java Sucks!

JavaScript Sucks!
@Zoidberg Let's continue the Java discussion there.
user142019
@sehe heh good point.
user142019
You're italicized.
@rubenvb still bothers me that objects are initialized via no initialization. Seems like one of those needs a new term.
@Zoidberg It would be fun if he moved it to the Java room by mistake :)
@MooingDuck well, as every region of storage is an object, you probably meant classes. Those are default initialized, which you can value-initialize in the default constructor's intialization list.
20:18
Phew that was a boatload to sift. Please continue ranting there:
@rubenvb Except for functions, right? ;)
@rubenvb Regions of storage are a separate concept from objects.

Java Sucks!

JavaScript Sucks!
@LucDanton §1.8/1: The constructs in a C++ program create, destroy, refer to, access, and manipulate objects. An object is a region of storage. [Note: A function is not an object, regardless of whether or not it occupies storage in the way that objects do. —end note ]
I'm not going to sift through the rest. RSI
20:19
@FredOverflow You are great at reading notes in the Standard ;-)
@rubenvb zzz
C++ has no untyped regions of storage :)
@rubenvb So what to ::operator new return, if not a pointer to an untyped region of storage?
Ell
Ell
Void* :P
@rubenvb I remember reading it back in 2009 or 2010.
20:26
@JerryCoffin You could argue it's a big chunk of bytes.
So, char.
But that would be like arguing that space is cold.
@rubenvb is there something I need to make your pre-built clang to work?
@rubenvb Oops, I meant variables. primitives mainly.
when I run clang++ it tells me it can't start because libgcc_s_sjlj-1.dll is missing.
@rubenvb I would assume that the intent is that a region of storage has multiple types: struct A {int B;}; The storage contains an A and an int.
@rubenvb There are regions of storage, you can check 3.8. The Standard does not describe them as untyped, and neither do I.
20:33
@MooingDuck interesting point
@FredOverflow also again for the return type of ::operator new, both char and whatever the frick else you want.
@FredOverflow just occured to me, I feel smart
And the fact that I misspelled "occurred" with a specllchecker active has already remedied that.
I just misspelled spellchecker. With the spellchecker active.
Pop quiz: Given the constant const double PI = 22/7; how many digits of PI are correct compared with the actual value of π? Please do not shout out the answer, let others think about it, too :)
Of course, it would be nice if you said "I know the answer" or "I have made up my mind" :)
I know the answer.
20:41
@FredOverflow I'd hope everyone here knows that one, it's pretty common
It is? Never seen it before.
Let's wait for one more guy before we disclose the correct answer :)
@FredOverflow decimal digits?
@FredOverflow Well, it's usually in the form: "MY PROGRAM DOESN"T WORK AND I DON"T KNOW WHY"
@Abyx Yes, decimal. You get a bonus point.
@Abyx good question!
20:43
@FredOverflow boring...
@FredOverflow Do you want us to include matching digits after the first mismatch? INFINITE
10 digits! (In base ?)
@sehe No, very good point!
I should post all my questions here lol, so much great feedback!
user142019
lol
@FredOverflow None?
20:44
@EtiennedeMartel Very close :)
46 mins ago, by FredOverflow
@Zoidberg I have a talent in spotting errors that nobody but me cares about. GIVE US THE PAPER.
Unfortunately, I cannot spot my own ambiguities :(
You'd be surprised what others care about instead :)
@FredOverflow lol
The correct answer is 1. The 3 before the decimal point is correct.
20:45
Yeah.
22/7 is an integral division, so it's gonna give... 3.
^ Talking of spotting errors. Who else spotted that... egegrious thing... "Magnificient"? Surely that must be an error, no?
@FredOverflow yeah, and if it was a regular floating division it'd be off by 0.001
20:45
@FredOverflow Oh, I thought you were talking about the decimals. I was so close.
So, decimal and first mismatch, gonna update my question. Thanks again!
@sehe > xkcd put a comic up mocking wikipedia for having over fourty thousand words of debate over with no consensus if the "Into" in "Star Trek Into Darkness" should be uppercase or lowercase, or have some punctuation before it. Because of this, less than 24 hours later, there are over fifty two thousand words, and a consensus. And warnings for xkcd fans to leave it alone.
@MooingDuck What are you doing?
@FredOverflow Maybe ask for a better way to get an approximation too?
@sehe attempting to reply and quote at the same time (quote is from facebook)
20:46
@MooingDuck Why?
@sehe because of the last two sentences.
I thought it was something interesting to share with the group
@MooingDuck Wokay. Anyhoops, the interwebs agree with me: wordnik.com/words/magnificient is not a word (although there are plenty prior occurences of the typo)
@Rapptz Na, that would give away too much :)
@FredOverflow yw
man
I played that Surgery Simulator, and it was kinda disappointing
20:49
what did you expect?
well
all the videos made it seem much harder to control than it was
and secondly, it seemed to bug out, so I couldn't get the original heart out.
idiocy gets views
@JerryCoffin you're on Stack Overflow/about
:)
huh, Jon Skeet answered a question tagged with c++
granted it has .net and vb.net too
@LuchianGrigore Yeah -- somebody mentioned that a few minutes ago.
20:51
dammit
@JerryCoffin they upvoted and accepted the other answer
lol
@Rapptz I saw that!
@Rapptz no wait, it's a demo. Happens every time
yeah
ooh, I got a badge? oh. already got that one
this badge is new
20:54
@MooingDuck You cannot even rip the heart out in the demo? What a rip-off!
@FredOverflow You should be able to, but IME it's bugged.
@DeadMG IME?
Input Mode Editor.
experience, guys
well, strictly, it is also Input Mode Editor.
20:56
71
Q: Why are function pointers and data pointers incompatible in C/C++?

gexicideI have read that converting a function pointer to a data pointer and vice versa works on most platforms but is not guaranteed to work. Why is this the case? Shouldn't both be simply addresses into main memory and therefore be compatible?

you don't say
I thought it was a bug but it's real.
@DeadMG Input Method Editor.
The question was asked on Sept 2012 but Jerry answered in Feb 2011
@JerryCoffin Shush.
20:57
@Rapptz link please
0
Q: Passing a const parameter by reference in vb.net

AndrisI want to pass a medium large Customer db object, but I don't want to pass it by value, because I think it would be unnecessary. In c++ when you had a large object it was inefficient to pass it by value, because a copy was created from it, so you passed it by reference so that there was no copy ...

@Rapptz That was probably a merge.
yeah it says so in the comments.
Jon Skeet has a silver C++ badge?
21:00
@AndreiTita Herb-style is how Herb Sutter recomends: prefer passing shared pointers by reference to const. I strongly disagree and honestly think that is just dumb: it picks the worst option as the default. Also, I see sehe linked to my answer, so you can just read it :)
never seen him post there
@Rapptz Probably due to those weirdly tagged questions.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I had read your answer. I just didn't understand what herb-style was, and why it was bad. Thanks.
none of these questions need the C++ tag..
@Rapptz I'm pretty sure the other answer was accepted prior to the merge as well. Perhaps they chose it specifically because of it, but it's kind of a sad example, since the accepted answer is basically wrong. When C started to prohibit this, Harvard architecture was basically a dead issue (the Mark 1 was long dead, DSPs using it weren't around yet).
21:05
@R.MartinhoFernandes But your point is not that passing by const& is always usually worse than passing by value, but that you should pass a raw pointer if possible, right?
@AndreiTita Or a reference, yes.
Right.
If the interface does not deal with ownership, shared_ptr has no business there.
@JerryCoffin I kinda disagree. The C Committee made i++ + ++i UB because of hypothetical instruction-level parallelism that didn't even exist until Itanium, and even then, IIRC, no compiler could take advantage of it. I can well imagine them deciding to support Harvard architectures just in case they came up in the future- and it was the right call, since it did indeed come back.
@DeadMG While they probably wouldn't have taken any steps specifically to prohibit Harvard architecture, the fact is that the example I cited was much more relevant at the time. MS-DOS was the dominant system of the time, and most MS-DOS compilers supported both Compact model (32-bit data, 16-bit code) and medium (16-bit data, 32-bit code) models.
21:11
@JerryCoffin How is that any different to Harvard architecture basically being predominant?
@DeadMG Not quite sure what you're trying to ask here.
well, what I'm saying is, you said that Harvard architecture was a dead issue, and then go on to describe how the predominant platform effectively exposes it.
Bottom line: he says "this is why it happened." The reality is that if you look on (for example) comp.std.c from the time, you'll see that MS-DOS was discussed heavily, and Harvard architecture...not at all.
@DeadMG MS-DOS was not Harvard architecture by any stretch of the definition.
@EtiennedeMartel I've long favored a big "chopper" that would just slice off any edges of a car that extended outside the designated spot (and in this case, would just chop down the middle).
21:15
@JerryCoffin Y'know, it was a long time, and I didn't cover this in detail, and I only browsed Wikipedia to get back up to speed, but
"... I suck."
I'm pretty sure that no Von Neumann architecture offers different pointer widths for instructions and data
@JerryCoffin Good idea. Then you could probably also scavenge whatever's left inside the car.
@EtiennedeMartel That's when you squeeze in the driver side and press your door against his when you get out
21:17
That reminds me about a study that said that people with expensive cars were most likely to act like complete assholes.
(For what it's worth, I think it's the other way around: complete assholes are more likely to own expensive cars)
What's the difference between a porcupine and a BMW? On a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside.
@DeadMG Harvard vs. Von Neumann is basically a hardware difference: one bus addressing all memory, or one bus for data and one for code. MS-DOS ran on the x86, with one bus for code and data, so it's Von Neumann. A compiler could choose to maintain both segment and offset, or only offset, for either data, or code, or both.
@JerryCoffin So in reality, then, the distinction was entirely made by the compiler, rather than the architecture.
@EtiennedeMartel I wish I could find it, but I saw a study years ago showing that the best correlation was to number of bumper stickers on the car (inverse relationship -- more stickers -> worse driver).
@DeadMG Yes.
@JerryCoffin Well, well.
Also.
I'm so gonna get fat.
@EtiennedeMartel At least it's not "Mois de la Poutine"!
@MooingDuck Looks like the right study.
user142019
I need more connections on LinkedIn.
@Zoidberg Create fake accounts and link them to you.
user142019
lol bad idea
how far were the aggregate rules widened in C++11 for uniform initialization?
I mean, could I do struct { std::string s; } x { "test" };
21:29
@DeadMG one way to find out
yeah, GCC seems to accept it
user142019
> Ex-employees you may know.
user142019
> Radek Slupik
user142019
Yes, I know that guy. .-.
21:30
@Zoidberg Technically correct.
@Zoidberg Really.
user142019
I consider this a bug.
user142019
It shouldn't list the currently signed in user.
user142019
That's just silly.
@Zoidberg I'm not exactly what you'd call an active participant, but you're welcome to link to my account there if you feel like it.
user142019
21:32
I never visit the site either.
user142019
Wat. My mother has a LinkedIn account. T_T
user142019
@JerryCoffin oh why not.
Is LinkedIn useful for something?
@AndreiTita Good for stroking your ego, if your ego is stroked by receiving massive amounts of (useless) email.
@JerryCoffin Good to know. There are times when I feel like I receive too little e-mail.
user142019
21:34
I never receive email from LinkedIn.
user142019
Colorado?
@Zoidberg Yeah.
user142019
Aight.
@Zoidberg Oh, I'm pretty sure you don't necessarily get any, but it's pretty easy to get insane amounts if you aren't careful (for one, leaving any comment on anything there defaults to 'send me an email every time anybody adds another comment).
21:37
Did you guys ever receive something on Careers?
user142019
Ah ye those defaults are fannoying.
user142019
@bamboon once when I was 16. xD
user142019
Ruby on Rails developer. I didn't notice until four months later.
@EtiennedeMartel I remember a girl who'd probably have married me if I'd given her one of those...
@JerryCoffin Damn, you have it easy.
21:39
@Zoidberg that's bad
user142019
@bamboon Ah well. Don't really care.
@bamboon Now and again ("now" meaning "this morning, most recently.")
user142019
Public views 7
Employer views 3
Search hits 26
Email inquiries from employers 1
Email responses to employers 0
@bamboon Twice, actually.
that reminds me, I need to respond to the one I got recently
user142019
Oh hey I got an email.
user142019
21:40
In Dutch it's spelled "e-mail".
@EtiennedeMartel Note that I didn't say she was a girl I'd have wanted to marry (or even date) -- but she did love that song.
user142019
Who? That fool?
@Zoidberg I think it's supposed to be that way in English, too.
user142019
21:42
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think I don't give a fuck about how it's supposed to be.
Electronic mail, commonly referred to as email or e-mail, is a method of exchanging digital messages from an author to one or more recipients. Modern email operates across the Internet or other computer networks. Some early email systems required that the author and the recipient both be online at the same time, in common with instant messaging. Today's email systems are based on a store-and-forward model. Email servers accept, forward, deliver and store messages. Neither the users nor their computers are required to be online simultaneously; they need connect only briefly, typically t...
@Zoidberg When why the comment about how it's spelt in Dutch?
user142019
Thundershit!
user142019
@LightnessRacesinOrbit to teach you guys something new.
I accidentally went nocturnal again, and it's worse this time. Just got up and it's almost 10pm >.<
"accidentally"
21:44
yeah I accidentally the whole day
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I recommend a banana split. Does nothing about being nocturnal, but sure tastes good! :-)
yuck
0
Q: PHP "if" this ID show div

user1983875I am learning php and am trying to write an "if" statement. I want to show a div only if it's petsID 22. <?php if($petsID=="22"){ $text.="<div>some stuff in here</div>"; } ?> Am I on the right track or way off? Thanks

user142019
He should have used Haskell.
@Zoidberg Are you aware of the video A History Of Haskell: being lazy with class? Watching it now.
user142019
@FredOverflow Nein!
user142019
21:53
@FredOverflow Me too.
Already? That was a quick download.
user142019
Stream.
user142019
Also, isn't that the same guy as the one from the useless/useful/safe/dangerous video? :)
I don't trust Streams, I am scared of losing my Internet connection at the most interesting point :)
@Zoidberg Yes, Simon PJ :)
@FredOverflow Just put the read in the loop condition.
Going to sleep. Good night.
21:55
@R.MartinhoFernandes wat
@Zoidberg Oh, Haskell is a cat, lol.
the question is
do I wish to order white bread?
user142019
I read "beard".
@DeadMG Other kind of bread is healthier.
@Zoidberg White beard happens without orders!
as if I care much about that :P
22:11
I accepted an answer to
5
Q: Why did C++03 require template parameters to have external linkage?

Lightness Races in OrbitBackground In C++03, symbols used as template arguments must have external linkage; this restriction was removed in C++11, as explored in this previous question: In C++03, template arguments could not have internal linkage: [C++03: 14.6.4.2/1]: For a function call that depends on a...

back to Lightness?
back to Lightness.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I saw that. Too bad you accepted an answer that goes on for pages and is just plain wrong (read through comp.std.c++ and you'll realize that export had nothing to do with it -- people knew how to deal with that).
user142019
@FredOverflow TIL: STM monad.
22:17
Got quotes? :)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Given how broken Google groups search is anymore, no. I might come up with some eventually but it won't be easy or quick.
@JerryCoffin Alright
@JerryCoffin I'll put it on the back-burner then
@JerryCoffin Can you at least essentially repeat your above comment on the answer, so that I don't forget?
@JerryCoffin It can serve as a placeholder for a factual follow-up
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Maybe if I come up with quotes, but without that it'd just sound like whining.
@JerryCoffin Suppose
22:32
Important note Please ensure you read all current discussions on this page before adding a new section. The previous contributors to this discussion have reached a compromise for the time being, and several wish to leave the conversation be for now. A summary of our arguments for and against capitalisation can be found . Thank you for your cooperation. (talk) 07:24, 30 January 2013 (UTC) Good grief -- read all sections?? Couldn't you be more specific and just state that it's the title that's the subject of mass edit warring? Read all sections, ohfergoodnesssakes -- I'll go read t...
LOL.
100
Q: Is C++ context-free or context-sensitive?

FredOverflowI often hear claims that C++ is a context-sensitive language. Take the following example: a b(c); Is this a variable definition or a function declaration? That depends on the meaning of the symbol c. If c is a variable, then a b(c); defines a variable named b of type a. It is directly initiali...

OMG 100 points, I'm rich!
That answer is really something.
@FredOverflow Now you know who your friends and foes are.
@AndreiTita Now I kinda wish you hadn't pointed that out to me :(
22:38
@FredOverflow Told you I was in there.
user142019
I'm in the mood to abandon Mine# and write it in Haskell instead.
user142019
LambdaCraft. :)
@Zoidberg You could also work on our house.
user142019
I did that today.
user142019
I almost completed the floor and ceiling of the chest room.
22:40
@Zoidberg Still watching the video?
We're a bit low on resources. Lots of people taking some, not so many giving back.
user142019
@FredOverflow Yes; 39:46.
Okay, I'm trying to sync :)
@LucDanton Unnaceptable.
40:10 now
How about you?
22:41
@EtiennedeMartel Remember those 30 diamonds I mined? I think I used one myself, now there are 17.
We're gonna have to do more trips in the wild.
Also, I thik all those diamonds I found are still there, so I'm gonna have to take that Fortune pickaxe and mine them.
user142019
@FredOverflow I'll just scroll back to 39:46 and we hit play at the same time. xD
Let's start at 42:00 at the same time :)
user142019
39:53 not enough precision. :<
user142019
@FredOverflow No that's right after the funny part!
user142019
22:43
38:53, I say. :P
Meh, I got those diamonds from branch mining + fortune. It's a really straightforward process. Although there's no copper at the ideal depth for diamonds, and we need quite a lot of that.
Okay, I'm ready...
user142019
Now!
@LucDanton I usually just do trip in caves for that.
Plenty of iron and copper there.
22:44
"The incredible shrinking Gorilla" lol
user142019
LOL
user142019
Vigil Haskell!
@Zoidberg What funny part were you referring to btw?
user142019
@FredOverflow deleting source file.
user142019
At 40:00 or so.
22:46
no one is online
Yeah, that was pretty funny :)
"The price of usefulness" lol
@AndreiTita Wow, yes.
@FredOverflow Heh, look at all those names
I like the overlaps best
You can vote to close and later vote to reopen? lol
@rici: Since this question is so popular, and your excellent answer is so long, I think it's worthwhile adding a bolded "it's context-free" or "it's context-sensitive" tl;dr summary at the top of your answer. — Lightness Races in Orbit 7 secs ago
Agreed?
19 replies what?
user142019
22:52
lol
@LightnessRacesinOrbit He already states in his first sentence that it is neither.
oops
case in point!
@rici: Since this question is so popular, and your excellent answer is so long, I think it's worthwhile bolding your summary at the top of the answer. — Lightness Races in Orbit 2 mins ago
:P
fuck it, it's community wiki. I'll do it.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I was just going to say.
But thanks.
Wait, why is only his answer community wiki? Did he edit too much? The poor guy won't get the rep he deserves :(
22:55
@FredOverflow Yep
Probably
That really is a work of art, though.
@FredOverflow but can't close again nor open again after the first time
Could use some splitting into sections but the reasoning is very well laid out
@FredOverflow number of edits and number of editors isn't it?
only 3 editors before you :(
> Posts enter community wiki mode when one of the following happens:
> - The body of the post has been edited by at least five (5) different users.
> - The post has been edited ten (10) times by the original owner.
> - [...]
228
A: What are "Community Wiki" posts?

Justin StandardWhy have Community Wiki posts? One of the goals of the website is to be a continually evolving source of good information. Community Wiki posts help enhance the wiki aspect of the site. For more information about the proper use of Community Wiki, see The Future of Community Wiki. How do Com...

22:57
@MooingDuck I think it's an or instead of an and, but no sure.
Personally, I don't like the idea of CW at all.
32
A: Is there a way to remove community wiki status?

Jeff AtwoodYes -- community moderators, at their discretion, can now remove community wiki status from particular posts. This also inoculates those specific posts from ever being auto-converted to community wiki again, so they can be edited indefinitely with no forced wiki. In general, we feel the current...

@FredOverflow I'd prefer "splitting" of the rep. Or goes to last editor or something
I feel that this might be a worthy example....
@Shog9: What do you reckon?

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