« first day (799 days earlier)      last day (4375 days later) » 

Xeo
Xeo
20:00
@rubenvb Boost.Filesystem?
@Xeo I know. Thanks but no thanks.
Xeo
Xeo
lol
Why?
All Ambrosia needs now is decent C++11 support.
Ell
Ell
@Xeo he doesn't want dependencies
And Boost cause MSVS2012 doesn't have braced init lists.
Ell
Ell
20:02
which is a good idea for a build system, imho
who wants to build dependencies without a build system?
Who would want to use another crappy build system anyways :P
Oh crap. I should be super enthousiastic.
AMBROSIA ALL THE THINGS!
I recently found a super makefile.
AFAIK It scans the current directory for source files and compiles and links them all into one executable.
Doesn't really count as a buildsystem though.. Unless perhaps for small projects.
hey. Ambrosia can do that.
Ell
Ell
@rubenvb you should write some replacement build scripts for some things :P
@Ell I'm planning on doing the whole xiph tree (ogg,vorbis,speex,flac...) as an exercise.
lots of interdependencies and such. Ambrosia will handle them automatically.
Ell
Ell
20:07
I look forward to the first stable release :3
An example: if a library you use depends on another library implicitly (e.g. shlwapi on Windows), and some other thing depends on this library, shlwapi is automagically linked with that library. Which AFAIR, not a lot of build systems do.
you always have to link every single lib yourself for some forsaken reason.
@Ell Stable (aka v1.0.0) will take a while. Lots of other cool stuff needs implementing. I'm shooting high for the first version. But really it should be usable for small things from v0.1 or v0.2. I hope :P.
How can I release a build system that can't create it's own install/zip packages?
help is always welcome ;-)
Ell
Ell
haha you don't want my help :L
I think I might be too OCD to accept any help anyways :/
but it's way too early in development anyways.
Ell
Ell
is it open source?
It's CC0
So yes, and more.
Or less, depending on how you feel about copyleft.
Didn't the room have a list of member projects somewhere?
20:19
Oh wow the BWAPI guys have been on fire lately
Dammit.
Mods or owners or important people: can you please give me permission to add my project on the wiki?
^star that people, or it'll disappear into oblivion before someone important enough sees it.
Ell
Ell
@rubenvb plink everyone :P
@Ell That'll just get him flagged
or plonked
@Borgleader not me.
I'm liked by most regulars.
I think.
No, I just won't give him the password :v
20:24
mass plinking is not a good idea no matter who you are
i think
@CatPlusPlus :'-(
It's "Cat Plus Plus is the greatest person in the world"
Cat Plus Plus is the greatest Cat in the world
I think it's just a service running on the machine.
Ell
Ell
Yeah
I'm wondering if they use POST or ajax or what to actually run the commands
20:34
I'm outta here. Battery is running out and I don't wanna get the adapter plugged in here. Another Merry Christmas to everyone! (especially the Cat, cause (s)he's so awesome)
Ell
Ell
@rubenvb merry christmas :)
@Ell Those are basically the only options.
Ell
Ell
@StackedCrooked It could do ssh via javascript :P
websockets
No.
SSH is done via a JavaApplet.
Which is crappy.
But you can send commands without a shell as well.
Ell
Ell
so does webmin just send commands to be executed? or some form of message which the webmin server reads?
20:37
The message is sent over HTTP to the server, which forwards it to the system.
That's not particularly complicated. Actually I have such an experiment.
Ell
Ell
What experiment is that?
Or do you mean coliru?
No, a JavaScript console. It's really basic though.
What's up?
Ell
Ell
I am interested :P
@TonyTheLion hai
Ell
Ell
woo ruby
I see that the puppy mentioned me again. This time to be a director for a porn movie. hmmmm
You need to run the ruby script and then you can connect to localhost with your browser.
Ell
Ell
I'm gonna try this actually
However you need to install mongrel and popen4 via rubygems.
The command is: gem install mongrel popen4 (IIRC)
Ell
Ell
20:41
right okay
msvcrt-ruby18.dll is missing from your computer :'(
ruby installations annoy me :/
@Ell What
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus webmin
It doesn't send any commands anywhere
It has modules that know how to modify parts of system/app config
(It's crappy as fuck)
Ell
Ell
20:46
It must send something to the server o.O
It is installed on the server.
It works as any other webapp works
It is the server.
I have no idea how you imagine it works
I have no idea.
20:47
Let's play a roguelike
You are dead.
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus I don't really know how webapps work
Game over.
Ell
Ell
but for something to happen on the server, the client has to send something o.O
If I want @Ell to do something, I must message him. Is that so strange?
Ell
Ell
20:50
@StackedCrooked well I just didn't know how webmin encoded what it wanted the server to do
does it just send commands to be executed on the shell? then the server executes them?
In your C++ programs, do you send commands to the underlying system?
That'd be hilariously insecure design
You could do that.
But you can also use the system API.
It does issue shell commands
To restart services and whatnot
But they're not taken from the client
20:52
Well, my webserver actually also uses shell commands.
Ell
Ell
Right. So let's say you are on webmin administering some server in a far away land, and you tell it to install a package via the web interface
what does it do on the client end? then what on the server end?
But typically the client sends a message to the server: { action: "reboot", time: "now"}. The server needs to parse it and invoke the corresponding command or API call.
Ell
Ell
Right okay
with your javascript console, enter doesn't appear to send a command
This is simple HTTP.
Ell
Ell
Well sorry for being so incompetent :P
20:55
In our case the reboot command should probably be POST (or perhaps PUT)..
It's all forms, it doesn't do PUTs
I nearly always use XMLHTTPRequest.
I only learned how to post using a form very recently.
Anyway, I did hear that IE used to support only GET and POST...
Ell
Ell
So if I was writing my own version of webmin, what would be the ideal method of transport?
Sealed jar
Don't write your own webmin
Just REST?
21:00
I did some REST in my Web class
neet concept
I don't find anything related to web neat
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus I'm not but you said it was crappy as fuck so I assumed that it didn't do it the best way
also I will look up REST
Btw, are you aware of SSH? That might be what you want instead of a webserver.
Ell
Ell
I am aware of SSH, but I'm looking at shiny gui web interfaces controlling a remote server
so webmin. But for bukkit :P
@CatPlusPlus I didn't like it either, but I discovered Lift and now I like it more.
21:02
@CatPlusPlus This chat is ok.
@Borgleader Elevators predate the Internet by a long time.
@StackedCrooked =.=;
Ell
Ell
So... XMLHTTPRequest?
Yeah, but technically it's spelled as XMLHttpRequest.
Ell
Ell
Right
Eh, bukkit
Learn how to write webapps first
Ell
Ell
21:06
I will do in the process :P
I'll just have to start over a lot :L
How to deal with authn, authz, untrusted input
Ell
Ell
Why would the input be untrusted? o.O
All input is untrusted
Ell
Ell
A user wouldn't intentionally mess up their own bukkit setup
Never trust user input
Always assume it's malicious
21:07
@Ell You fail the preliminary round. You may go home now.
Also you really want to know how to write, secure, run and maintain webapps before starting a project that gives you control over anything
Unless you don't intend to ever expose it to the Internet
Ell
Ell
Well yeah I don't intent to expose it to the internet
So you know how to operate a VPN?
Ell
Ell
Can't I just run it locally?
Well, yes, but it kinda defeats the "remote control" goal
Ell
Ell
21:10
I guess, but the gui would be a big part of it too
Not having to edit config files
I like to test with localhost:8080.
If you just want local GUI, then make a local GUI
Don't write webapp for that
There's no reason to use web for things that don't need it
Ell
Ell
What library should I write it with then?
There are no easy to use gui libraries
The one you know
I also have a VBoxHeadless running which I can login to using port forwarding.
Ell
Ell
21:11
I know none :P
and it's a learning thing really
@Ell What have we been talking about then?
Qt or maybe something in .NET are probably easiest ones around
Ell
Ell
@StackedCrooked By that I mean, to other people's internet
Not that creating GUI is easy
Ell
Ell
I want to learn to write webapps then, let's just leave it at that
21:12
Well, creating crappy GUI might be
You can use a secret port number and url.
Ell
Ell
So how do I go abouts learning how to write, secure, run and maintain webapps?
What skills to learn first? I'm guessing there's probably a question on this on se
You first need to learn HTTP.
At least the basics.
Ell
Ell
I think I know at least a teeny bit about http :P
Then you can implement web-services. You don't need any HTML, CSS for that
21:14
Ahahahaha I died at first level I'm terrible at this
@StackedCrooked That does nothing
It's not a security measure
Ell
Ell
Security by obscurity
Does not work
Ell
Ell
@StackedCrooked But I want to learn to write web apps
Well then learn that, dammit.
:P
That's how everyone does it.
Ell
Ell
I don't know where to start :P
I was going to start by attemping writing a remote gui bukkit thing... :P
Ell
Ell
hmm I think I have a hello world django app written somewhere
I got an achievement for being utterly terrible
...congratulations?
Ell
Ell
Ahh yes I remember trying to make an image field, then the admin site wouldn't let me upload it properly :/
@Ell I wanted that players of my native game would share highscores globally. So I implemented a highscoreserver . That was my very first experience in "webdev".
21:22
@CatPlusPlus Lift > Django, but Django's doc > Lift's doc
You can start from where it makes most sense in your current situation.
What, RoR isn't the new hotness anymore?
(I'm not sure what's so compelling about Lift)
Ell
Ell
I never tried RoR
You're not missing out on anything
Don't start with a framework. Start with a goal and reason about the logical steps that will be required to meet it.
21:24
Gah I'm sick just by looking at first page of the tutorial simply.liftweb.net/index-2.1.html#toc-Section-2.1
Like I said the documentation is absolutely atrocious
What's interesting about Lift is the view first model
Those magic HTML attributes are absolutely atrocious
> ...So, let’s look at the Lift template
Yay, lift template.
In django the template code is in the template
In lift, you have an HTML page, and code that operates on it but they're separate
Ell
Ell
Lol, I mounted the curb today when driving :P
21:26
Yeah that sucks
thinking in terms of HTML page is wrong. IMO.
HTTP is about resources, resource representations and methods
@StackedCrooked So what should you be thinking in terms of then?
@Borgleader See me message above yours.
Ell
Ell
21:29
views/models/something IDK
I was talking about the difference between django & lift when it comes to modifying the HTML content of the page
why the hell are you bringing up http?
woof
HTTP is about duct tape
Apply enough and everything is perfect
Ell
Ell
reminds me of that mythbusters episode
21:32
REST is used for APIs more than webapp frontends
<form> supports only POST and GET from verbs, and if your app requires JS to work and is not 1% special snowflake then it's terrible
I'm on second level and still alive :toot:
hmmm
You were talking about REST and levels I thought you meant that >.>;
new version of Clang
pity they didn't fix the horrific API
21:36
Hypermedia is something I first heard about yesterday I think.
I don't care much for REST
Or web
I'm playing TOME :v
I should finally get some sleep..
user142019
I just saw a wonderful show with music, water, fire, fireworks and lights.
@Zoidberg'-- A public execution?
Ell
Ell
@Zoidberg'-- merry birthdaymas
21:38
musta been a bitch for your parents when you were born
@Zoidberg'-- You watched LotR Part 1?
user142019
@StackedCrooked No, Aquanura.
"Hey honey, it's Christmas!" 1/2/3/4/5/6am You: "WAAAAAAAAH"
@Borgleader LOTR is terribad.
@DeadMG You're dead to me.
@DeadMG As if it's not like that all year long :v
21:40
@Borgleader dat pun.
@TonyTheLion Yeah... I realized after I typed it -.-;
Why is there a photo editing software in my Steam flash sales
SHOO
fuck I forgot to check the Steam deals
You're taking space from games
Because steam sells software now, welcome to 2012
21:41
lol
user142019
I saw a house on a rotating roundabout today.
@CatPlusPlus Idiut.
user142019
And I have been in a few roller coasters.
user142019
Today was full of fun.
@EtiennedeMartel Is that French I don't speak French
21:42
@CatPlusPlus No.
hmmm
I heard a lot of good things about The Walking Dead
@EtiennedeMartel Play TOME
It has IRC builtin now :v
@CatPlusPlus Wut?
Wait, Googlin'.
Uh, there's a Drupal favicon.
21:45
Who cares
user142019
IT USES PHP. KILL IT WITH FIRE.
That.
Woa, woa, iTunes just shoved an Apolyptica song in my face. Didn't see that one coming.
Who cares
Well, you, obviously, otherwise you wouldn't take the time to ask that.
@EtiennedeMartel He's burning with curiosity...
21:49
I mean about that PHP thing
user142019
Apolyptica?
Damn.
I did not even see that fucking typo.
My team member dieeeed ;_;
And now it's too late.
Xeo
Xeo
I totally read that as "Apocalyptica"
21:49
@Xeo I did too, and that's why I did not fix it.
I'm generating a new keyboard layout optimized for programming. carpalx is a cool program.
Xeo
Xeo
The most-optimized layout is the one you're most familiar with. :P
My keyboard layout is optimised for me
I even have funny letters δ
@Xeo Fingers hurt from typing special keys all the time
Xeo
Xeo
@Pubby What's your current layout?
user142019
21:51
All you need is two keys: 0 and 1.
Ugh, non-QWERTY layout
Bad
` = | b q j k ? ! < > - +     ~ @ ^ B Q J K % 5 6 7 8 9
; _ . m g u , ( ) { } * \     [ ] : M G U & 0 1 2 3 4 @
a n o t l h i e s r '         A N O T L H I E S R "
z x c v f y d p w /           Z X C V F Y D P W $
^what it generated. Better than Dvorak even for prose apparently!
user142019
An ANOTL-keyboard?
You must be typing "another" quite often
@Xeo Colemak
Xeo
Xeo
21:52
No idea what that looks like.
QWERTY is the only layout
Xeo
Xeo
@Pubby If you need alt-gr for ", yeah, that would hurt after some time... or you'd adapt to press ctrl+alt instead of alt-gr
@Xeo The non-letter keys are identical to QWERTY. Meaning no need for alt-gr.
Only took me about 3 days to switch, was very surprised
Xeo
Xeo
@Pubby Then I misinterpreted the image.
21:54
BOSS LEVEL
In starting zone
I'm going to die
Xeo
Xeo
Have fun.
@CatPlusPlus Did you just stumble on Dark Souls or something?
For a second I thought he was entering the woods.
TOME nub
But that would be bos level in dutch.
Xeo
Xeo
21:55
I seriously need to find out how to use normal alt codes with Japanese locale.
@CatPlusPlus There was a French intern last summer with a laptop with an AZERTY layout. Weird stuff.
@Pubby no $ key?
@EtiennedeMartel Crazy
@CatPlusPlus Hey, I feel bad for those guys.
user142019
@JohanLarsson What? No $ key? Pubby must love parentheses and fmap.
21:56
All those little French children, being forced to use AZERTY because they don't know any better...
@JohanLarsson It is on / key
@Zoidberg'-- It prevents me from ever being able to write PHP or talk about money
@EtiennedeMartel And Dutch speaking Belgians.
user142019
@Pubby but Haskell. :^(
@StackedCrooked You're stuck with that too? Damn.
C++ libraries are lame.
21:57
So many debuffs
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, but I personally use a US keyboard layout.
Found $ now, fail was staring at the thing for over a minute. A couple of beers probably did not help
user142019
I use QWERTY with American English layout from Apple. I like it.
us layouts suck
I'll try a second round. This time with less shuffled letters from colemak.
21:59
Woo victory

« first day (799 days earlier)      last day (4375 days later) »