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17:00
@GamErix Because the third parameter is not used by the function but still required in the signature?
user1182183
@EtiennedeMartel hm ok ;o
@EtiennedeMartel Thanks. I've got a function called the same thing, that should take priority now, is there a keyword I'm missing?
Ahh, I think I've fixed it
tyvm
@alan2here In C, that would be all right. In C++, the signature includes the name, the parameter types (and order) and the presence or abscence of const/volatile (those apply to this, so it's part of the parameters).
@GamErix When you've writeen your first library you will understand
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz well my stuff is sooo basic I never encountered something like that
17:02
@GamErix For instance, if I override a virtual function but not use one of its parameter, then I might as well not name it.
But that's mostly because I exclusively write code with W4 and Werror, so I would get an error for an unused variable.
user1182183
@EtiennedeMartel ah ok, so you still need to provide at least an empty (veriabletype)
@GamErix The parameter has to be there, yes, otherwise it's not the same function.
@GamErix I'd try setting the hook in an explicit initialization function. DllMain has quite a few strange limitations.
user1182183
well that's clear then, now just find out why the keyboardhook doesn't want to work xD
user1182183
@JerryCoffin oh okay
17:04
But you don't need it, so remove the name. I've seen people use weird hacks like shadowing the parameter with an inline struct. But I never liked those.
user1182183
@JerryCoffin I;ll make a timer which will run once, should be enough right?
@GamErix Maybe -- not sure setting a time works from DllMain either though.
user1182183
if(CreateTimerQueueTimer( &hTimer, hTimerQueue, ProcessTickMain, NULL , 20, 20, 0)){}
user1182183
works
@GamErix Cool.
Xeo
Xeo
17:09
Alright, time for The Hobbit. Later o/
Ell
Ell
man it would be kewl to be a cyber criminal
user1182183
hm a delayed setwindowshook doesn't work :/
Ell
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel I mean it would be cool to be able to do stuff like hacking into things
@Ell Fun fact: it's not like in the movies.
Ell
Ell
17:12
@EtiennedeMartel I know :/ but if it was in the movies it would be cool :P
@Ell Anything is cool in the movies.
@TonyTheLion "Not that bad" is relative when you're in Tibet.
user142019
17:38
@TonyTheLion I think North Korea belongs to “hard”.
lol
I like the last one
user142019
No, you like the third one. You’re a lion.
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz noob Git is known not to be the easiest thing to learn.
user142019
Meh. I fixed that UB in my server.
user142019
Fuck this shit. I’m going to write a libuv wrapper in C++.
17:44
Git actually isn't that hard now
@GamErix or maybe also for consistency with other functions. I wrote a parser once where all teh functions were int (*)(std::istream&, std::ostream&). One of the functions didn't actually use the ostream, but I left it there for consistency.
@CatPlusPlus You're too smart to judge about that.
:P
user1182183
@MooingDuck okay :p and hi ;P and uh, maybe u know what the prooblem could be? : stackoverflow.com/questions/13864604/…
user142019
loop() != default;
@StackedCrooked Fuck that. I've been hearing this crap all my life. It gets irritating pretty fast.
17:51
Ok, you are not smart.
I'm definitely not smart
You're all a little slow.
Not stupid, just a little slow.
"Oh but your opinion on the difficulty of this matter does not count because you are not stupid"
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm sorry to have pushed one of your buttons.
Hm, that sounds spiteful.
Not intended.
Okay weekend
Time to maybe do something fun
17:54
Weekend already?
@StackedCrooked It's ok. This has been an annoying week, so I am a bit grumpy.
@sbi Wanna go watch The Hobbit sometime between tomorrow and the 24th?
18:13
What's the point of & 0xff here? — FredOverflow 1 min ago
there is no point
noooo poooooint
Ell
Ell
hmmmmm raspi rpg maker :3
cpx
cpx
@FredOverflow I had got a similar answer once on my question.
@cpx Well, at least that code makes it explicit that some bits are shoved away.
In the example I posted, there is nothing to shove away.
Moping duck that post is from 2 years ago
18:23
@CatPlusPlus doesn't mean it's not wrong and doesn't need correcting.
Necroing is fine. (says the guy with 6 Necromancer badges)
@CatPlusPlus What post?
that post
cpx
cpx
this post
Ell
Ell
18:24
hmm. Steam equivelant for rpi - would it work in any way?
cpx
cpx
I think I remembered the post because I didn't understand the point of 0xff.
@Ell RPI?
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG raspberry pi - obviously it's only little games and it wouldn't be commercial, but like a marketplace thing
You mean a package manager for games?
Ell
Ell
yeah :P
I need to think of an idea to win a competition
18:29
@Ell Well the RPI can run different OSes so it would be sorta difficult or useless
Speaking of RPI, fucking thing has been backordered forever
Ell
Ell
well let's say it's only on linux
I'm thinking about buying a copy of the C++11 standard, and I'm not sure about the level of DRM present on the file. Is the PDF file node-locked? Disabling copying of text is not unusual, but are they set up so that I can only open and read the file on one machine?
You can get a free copy of the draft afaik
Ell
Ell
can't you just use the draft?
@DragonLord you can open and read the file wherever you like. It's intended to be usable :)
Note that the price can vary a lot depending on where you buy it from, and as the others said, draft versions are available for free, and one of the drafts is basically identical to the final standard (apart from a few typos)
Ell
Ell
18:36
has anyone made a "go back in"/"doh-va-kin" joke yet?
If you have too much money you can give me some instead of buying C++11
@Ell, @Borgleader: I'm aware, but I'd prefer the definitive document, since I don't know exactly what changes were made between N3337 and the standard. While the differences are supposed to be little more than typo and grammatical corrections, precisely how much of a deviation should I expect?
user142019
@DragonLord you can also find a draft for free. R. Martinho Fernandes has an up-to-date build of it.
user142019
Oh okay.
Everyone is referencing to the draft
18:37
^ This
user142019
I just pirated it when I didn’t yet know there was a draft.
@DragonLord None of relevance. Only editorial changes, like fixing typos and formatting.
Unless you're one of those crazy people who write C++ compilers, you don't need to buy the standard
ever
Ell
Ell
argh steam is annoying :/
on the other hand, for $30, I it seems a fairly reasonable thing to do :)
cpx
cpx
18:39
@DragonLord AFAIK printing and copying text is allowed.
every red-eye removal of every software I have ever tried makes the eyes ink black. How is that an improvement?
There are so many better things to do with $30
user142019
ISO is the centre of bureaucracy.
user142019
bureaucrazy
@KonradRudolph They're not red?
18:39
@CatPlusPlus That’s begging the question. How is that an improvement?
You can get super drunk for 30$ :)
why is black supposed to be better than red?
it stands out just as much, or even more, than red against skin teint
and eyes aren’t black
Well, it's red-eye removal software
So not red is a goal
no: the actual goal is to make the picture look more natural
@netcoder I can get drunk for much less. Some call it a weakness, I call it a super power.
18:42
Any difference in terms of readability between N3337 and the standard?
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd definitely go for the latter. I could get drunk for 5$ about ten years ago. Those were the days.
Ell
Ell
@netcoder what on? :L
Beer.
Bad beer, but still. I didn't have the taste to enjoy beer at the time.
@DragonLord nope
Ell
Ell
dl'ed steam linux
18:45
I'm looking at N3337, and just how much does it reference other standards, such as the C standard?
Ell
Ell
updating box looks so ridiculous :P
If you just want to know what the standard says, you should be fine with the draft. If you're going to actually prove to someone that the standard says exactly that, I guess you'll need the authoritative document :)
Only C library section references C at all
8
A: Buying the C++11 Standard (ISO/IEC 14882:2011) from an Authorized Body

FredOverflowYou can get the current draft for free, legally. It is even more up to date than the published standard :)

Because why would C++ reference C
It'd make more sense if they referenced Unicode, but they're bad at it so they don't
18:46
@FredOverflow which means that it isn't up to date (or at least, it isn't accurate). The published standard is still the authoritative one. Newer drafts deviate from that ;)
Thanks for all your suggestions. I'll use the most current standard or just refer to N3337.
And to what extent does the latest draft deviate from C++11?
@DragonLord I'm not sure, but I would be surprised if it was anything significant. Bugfixes and a handful of minor features, I believe. The latest draft should still be very usable
FYI: Link to latest draft, N3485, November 2, 2012.
@DragonLord How is that different from the one I posted?
Nothing has changed yet, other than possibly bugs that were fixed in DRs.
18:51
@FredOverflow: Didn't look at the above answer, sorry. (you have to click through to see the link)
I'm still using N3290, and haven't really seen a reason to seek out a later draft yet. I don't think you need to worry too much about this
@jalf But typos!
@Ell Yes, so far I'm not impressed with it
It's beta, though
@jalf I believe they're intending to vote in most of the changes for C++14 in Bristol.
@DeadMG Did you mean C++ TR2? A full revision is planned for 2017; TR2 is planned for 2014.
18:55
There is no TR2.
did I say TR2?
@DragonLord That's outdated.
C++14 is the next planned Standard.
and any feature that wants to be in C++14 must be feature-complete by Bristol 2013
user142019
I cannot wait till C++17.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Or is he 18?
user142019
But I’ll be 23 by then.
18:57
Still, so young.
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel next week’s Sunday.
C++14 is mostly library enhancements, DRs, the odd language extension like maybe polymorphic lambdas and maybe one big feature like modules or something
then C++17 will have a couple more large new language features
Can I rely on N3485 being similar to C++11?
yes
most of that stuff is just DRs, really.
@Zoidberg'-- I'll be 32 then
18:58
Alright, I'll refer to that document. Thanks, but I've plenty of coursework to do. See you all later.
Ell
Ell
@netcoder it just kicked me out because I'm not authenticated :/
Oh my god I just found out my laptop understands that when I put two fingers on it and roll top to bottom or side to side it scrolls automatically.
@Zoidberg'-- Woa. You'll be old enough to drink here.
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel I’m already old enough to drink here.
Oh my god this is like sex for my fingers it's amazing I can scroll and click just by changing pressure and rolling my fingers around it's AMAZING.
18:59
@Zoidberg'-- Then why aren't you drinking?
dude wtf
@EtiennedeMartel Cause he's smoking weed instead
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel I do drink. I drink Coca-Cola.
user142019
Because beer tastes terrible.
user142019
And wine tastes terrible.
@Zoidberg'-- They don't taste good unless you do some major mixing.
19:01
@ThePhD That's so 2010 :P
And not mixing with other alcohols.
user142019
@ThePhD IOW, you can just as well drink Coca-Cola.
@ThePhD Are you high?
@R.MartinhoFernandes No... :c I'm just excited. I never thought the PC world would catch up with these simple usability features on Laptops with Trackpads.
I thought I'd have to stroke a little nub for the rest of my life just to get things to scroll.
19:03
@ThePhD You know PgUp and PgDown have been around for decades
You know those little red nubs in the middle of laptops that really bad laptop brand makers put there because they're dumbasses and probably never used a good laptop in their lives?
yeah, but they don't scroll, they jump a billion metres
@DeadMG <---- This man speaks the truth.
@DeadMG polymorphic lambdas and modules? As far as I'm concerned they could basically just as well dissolve the committee afterwards. Nothing left to do, mission accomplished. ;)
19:04
@ThePhD lol
user142019
Or they could just start over from scratch and don’t use C as a foundation. :P
@Zoidberg'-- They'll call it N, for Not C
Stollen is nice.
user142019
Nitrogen
I would definitely use a language called Nitrogen.
19:05
@jalf Constexpr functions that don't suck, lots more libraries, less UB
I would flip a table of they called it Carbon, though.
user142019
@ThePhD even if it were Java?
@DeadMG well, if you insist, sure
@Zoidberg'-- Well, Java can get things done: I seen it. However, Java is a memory hog and I don't want to require / demand the JVM just for someone to use my software.
user142019
PHP can also get things done. Doesn’t mean it’s not a piece of shit.
19:06
Albeit, most computers - even plain end-user ones - by now probably have Java.
"constexpr functions that don't suck" is a really nice description.
I guess move-enabled lambda captures wouldn't hurt either
@DeadMG Fair enough. I do believe it amounts to the same in most contexts though.
@TonyTheLion lol
user142019
19:07
@TonyTheLion what a terrible and unrelated question.
user142019
How is that related to chemical bonds?
sharing - chemical bonds share electrons
remember chemistry?
or did you forget already?
I'd be pretty pissed at my teacher if I got a question about political systems in the middle of my chemistry exam...
user142019
Then they could’ve asked a complex question about the internals of std::shared_ptr as well and it would still have been related.
19:09
lol
Zoidberg is bad and he should feel bad
user142019
I’m good and I feel good.
@Zoidberg'-- std::communist_ptr? Or maybe std::communist_prt.
is that a new version of std_shared_ptr?
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes In Soviet Russia, ptr_communist::std.
2
or ѕтд::соммциіѕт_ртя or something
2
19:14
I think at least и is wrong.
no idea :P
user142019
@netcoder More like венерическая_болезнь::коммунистический_указатель.
although I think you're right, I recall и is pronounced p or something
@Zoidberg'-- oh god
user142019
The Cyrillic script () or azbuka is an alphabetic writing system. It is based on the Early Cyrillic, which was developed in the First Bulgarian Empire during the 10th century AD at the Preslav Literary School. It is the basis of alphabets used in various languages, past and present, in parts of the Balkans and Northern Eurasia, especially those of Slavic origin, and non-Slavic languages influenced by Russian. As of 2011 around 252 million people in Europe and Asia use it as the official alphabet for their national languages. About half of them are in Russia. Cyrillic is one of the mos...
user142019
^ I knew that alphabet but I forgot half of it.
19:16
@ThePhD Notch?
Hmm, 75% off on Crysis 2.
I should get back to work on porting ogonek, since I finished my own stuff that works for my own purposes...
user142019
@MooingDuck wot?
@EtiennedeMartel What like it's 10$ or something?
@netcoder Nah, it's transliterated as i, I think. The pi-looking one is the one that becomes p.
19:17
@Zoidberg'-- click the arrow next to the words
@EtiennedeMartel Crysis 2 was a good game, at least when I watched it played.
Now I'm going to sleep.
user142019
@MooingDuck yeah, how is that related to Notch?
@netcoder Yes.
@ThePhD Very repetitive
19:18
@Zoidberg'-- er wait, I replied to the wrong person/message....
user142019
lol
@netcoder What, you mean you shoot people while seeing the world through a first person point of view?
Jeez, I wonder what kind of game is that.
No I mean that the objectives are basically go there, shoot bunch of people why protecting a NPC, go there, shoot bunch of people while protecting 2 NPCs...
@netcoder you can say that about any game, genre, or task.
@netcoder programming is always the same because the objectives are basically program this, debug that. Program this, debug that.
@EtiennedeMartel Buy.
19:25
@MooingDuck That's just the objectives though, context can (should) change.
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's typically transliterated as i, but pronounced like long-e in "easy". The pi-looking one basically is Pi. The use of Pi for the number came from the Greek word for perimeter (which transliterates as something like "perimetron") which was also pronounced as starting with a "p" sound.
Ell
Ell
django is being mean :'(
In Crysis 2, the maps are very similar, same enemies, all guns give the same damage, attachments are mostly useless.
Anyway, just my POV. It's fun, but I got bored quickly.
@JerryCoffin It's "perimeter" (except not pronounced as English).
@MooingDuck I think we'd inflate Notch's ego far too much if it was called Notch. Guy might make even more money than he does now for even less work!
19:29
@StackedCrooked: "execution expired"?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm...I seem to remember having read otherwise, but I don't trust my memory particularly well, so I'm certainly not going to argue about it (though I would note that I'm talking about Greek at the time Pi was first used for that number, not modern Greek).
@JerryCoffin Oh, I was talking about modern Greek.
@MooingDuck There is a 10 seconds timeout. If the compilation takes too long or if the process takes too long the it's terminated.
@MooingDuck Keep in mind that my VPS has only 256 MB RAM. If you try to compile certain boost stuff then it will need to swap which will make compilation eternally slow. (And thus it will almost certainly timeout.)
@MooingDuck However, it seems to be broken right now:D
@StackedCrooked yeah that one
Hey, guys.
Quick question.
19:32
@StackedCrooked was compiling this. 14 lines, No includes, templates, recursion, or main.
Is it possible to friend all the templates of the same class?
@ThePhD yes, but I have to look it up every time
@MooingDuck Sorry :(
Like, for example, template <typename T> Foo { friend ??? /// Wat };
@ThePhD template <class U> friend class Foo;
19:33
template <typename OtherT> friend class foo;
@R.MartinhoFernandes Markdown fail
Templates inside templates...
Sometimes I wish I had just abandoned iterators and stuck with pointers.
Much simpler in the end. ._.
There is a price to pay for that.
The price is demanding everybody works in contiguous data addresses.
Which, I mean. That's not so bad, right?
@ThePhD templates aren't that bad.
@ThePhD yes it is, I recently ran into that at work
19:36
Siiiiigh Alright, alright. I'll keep at the iterators...
Besides, if I don't understand these things I'll never be able to port ogonek successfully.
@ThePhD can we see the code? In the past you've usually made things overly complicated.
man
And I want that basic_text.
complete fucking noob on isocpp
"Hey guys, I don't know how the fuck to use constructors. Please Standardise a class to fix my suckage?"
haha wtf
19:38
@MooingDuck Uh. One moment...
@DeadMG The safe_ref thing?
I saw that this morning, but just TL;DRed and assumed it was the starting-to-be-usual nonsense.
The name itself was enough for me.
@MooingDuck Um. So I've been working on making a VC++ compatible version of something like ogonek, before I try porting ogonek itself. I'm mostly just working off what I had before, and trying to grasp the power of iterators and the ability to make them do whatever I want.
I'm still trying to get an EncoderIterator work that will spit out one code unit and be able to go forward one code unit at a time when constructed from a beginning and end of codepoints.
Poor kid.
That is painful.
Trust me.
The good thing is, this will delete the cruft of the 5 specific classes I made that do conversions explicitly everywhere, in constructors, in Assign, and other places (StringUTF32, StringUTF16, StringAscii, etc.etc.).
The bad thing is, it's mother fuckin' hard. ;~;
@ThePhD you're trying to make an EncoderIterator and you showed the code for StringBase?
19:44
@MooingDuck Uh. No that's just one instance of it. Right now I'm just stuck in StringBase and trying to get that FriendDelcaration to behave, haha.
(It's at the top)
11 mins ago, by Mooing Duck
@ThePhD template <class U> friend class Foo;
Hmm. What do you need friending for?
Note there's only one set of <> on that line
user142019
For accessing private members!
@R.MartinhoFernandes To explicitly move or copy the underlying storage, which is declared as protected.
19:46
[rmf@calypso ogonek]$ grep friend include/ogonek/text.h++
[rmf@calypso ogonek]$
@ThePhD Why dafuq would you do that.
protected? seriously/
@ThePhD think about that statement for a bit and you'll realize that's not a good idea
@DeadMG ... Uh. I dunno. Didn't seem like there was a compelling reason to make it private.
@ThePhD Unless you plan to make this a polymorphic base class, protected is silly.
@ThePhD See, here's the thing. Private is the default. You should have a compelling reason to make it protected.
19:47
@ThePhD You need a compelling reason to make it public and an even more compelling reason to make it protected.
@ThePhD why are you making a string class? Doesn't Martinho have a string class?
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's called "base", he might be intending to make it polymorphic.
@MooingDuck He gratuitously used C++11 features that MSVC doesn't support
@MooingDuck I can't manage to compile it in VC++, which is what I have to work with for the next few months.
@DeadMG So Phd is writing another from scratch?
On the side, I am working to port it over.
19:47
@MooingDuck In that case it is missing the virtual dtor.
It's slow and I suck at it.
So, anyone of you looking for a job? I get an iPad Mini if I refer someone.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Let me summarize: protected data is essentially always a mistake.
@EtiennedeMartel Yes, actually.
@JerryCoffin That.
19:48
@DeadMG haven't you and he been addressing that?
some of it
I didn't finish
@MooingDuck Trying. Alllll the curly braaceesss ;~;
The thing is: if you give unfettered access to data members to derived classes you have no invariants.
any motherfucker could derive from you and do whatever the fuck he wants
you may as well make it fucking public
You may think you have, but they can be broken any time.
19:50
Okay, so I guess I'll just make it private. :c
@EtiennedeMartel You get an iPad Mini just for referring someone, or does he need to get hired for like 3 months then you get an iPad Mini?
THe thing is, I shouldn't be building a string library type deal right now. I'm supposed to be game developing. This was just supposed to be for the gratuitous amount of IO I'm dealing with, but ended up having to write a lot of code for that in various methods for my string classes.
@ThePhD Still, you don't need friending for anything.
@ThePhD haven't we talked about that multiple times?
A basic_text<encoding1, container1> can safely convert to a basic_text<encoding2, container2> because you can construct any basic_text from a range of codepoints and any basic_text is a range of codepoints. No friending needed.
19:53
@netcoder Yeah, the hiree has to go through the 3 month probation period.
@MooingDuck No... ... Maybe? .... ... Yes?
And even if you want to access to underlying storage for speeding something up, you have public members that give safe access to it.
@EtiennedeMartel Gotcha. Where do you work btw?
@netcoder Ludia.
Well, since it looks like I'm going to be here for a while...
have some music, everyone.
19:54
If myNullVar is set to NULL, will both if(!myNullVar) AND if(myNullVar == NULL) have the same outcome?
hey guys... anybody have vs2010-fu?
@ThePhD mostly "input data, immediately convert to whatever your internal type is. When saving, convert to external encoding, and immediately write." All OS's have functions to make that fairly easy with no Unicode library needed.
@jamesson some
user142019
@SSHThis don’t use NULL. Also yes assuming myNullVar is a pointer.
Thanks @Zoidberg'-- do you know if this is true in C, as well as C++?
user142019
19:56
@SSHThis both.
@SSHThis Fuck C.
@MooingDuck, why in the world does it need to creat a 5-mb database file for a console project?
user142019
@SSHThis Use nullptr instead of NULL.
great! thank you sir
@jamesson depends on how much code you have.
19:58
@DeadMG No.
Yeah, 5MB files are a real problem, especially if you only have 640k.
decltype(*it) is an lvalue reference, right?
user142019
@FredOverflow no.
Dang. What is it?
19:59
@netcoder Yes
@FredOverflow How can I know?
You shouldn't be using decltype there anyway.
@jamesson my console project has 2MB of code, plus 20ish dependancy projects. My database is only 17MB.

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