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20:00
@CatPlusPlus you can link a (32-bit) GCC-built .a file directly into a MSVC project.
user142019
@ThePhD Haskell Platform, Python, Emacs.
@CatPlusPlus I don't want to erase everything, get all the drivers again, and reinstall Windows 7. :c
@MooingDuck and that is helpful how?
@Zoidberg'-- Need windows to do DX development ATM. I'll side-by-side a Linux on the second 500 GB HD platter.
@rubenvb because that tells you you need to use the --oformat flag
20:01
You know, I've never ever used Haskell.
@rubenvb Huh.
Or Python, but I always had Python installed anyways.
user142019
@ThePhD Good. More jobs for me in the future.
@CatPlusPlus you'll probably need to link libgcc.a as well, or suffer unresolved references.
20:02
@MooingDuck And how would that produce anything usable? GCC outputs PE .o files on Windows, ELF .o files on Linux, why would I want to mess with that?
user142019
ARRRGG ROR Y U NO ROUTE CORRECTLY
user142019
@TonyTheLion alcohol is not a solution.
@rubenvb nevermind
Y U NO FIND IT FUNNY?!
user142019
What did the black man say when he got home from work? "Hi honey, I'm home from work."
20:04
@Zoidberg'-- Alcohol by itself is not a solution, but alcohol mixed with water, sugar, etc., to create a drink, is a solution.
user142019
@TonyTheLion ^ BECAUSE IT IS NOT FUNNY!!
user142019
@JerryCoffin but alcohol mixed with X is not alcohol, it is alcohol mixed with X.
@Zoidberg'-- You suck! Go back to being Zoidberg
user142019
20:05
Why am I even creating a web interface to Git in Ruby.
user142019
I should be using CoffeeScript, really.
@Zoidberg'-- I now got this from github:
> You are correct, currently you cannot follow an organization. I'll add to the Feature Request List that you would like to see that implemented.
Cool!
@rubenvb I'm not using MSVC, so not too concerned.
I've never had problems with object file size in GCC, anyway.
user142019
@bamboon awesome.
One level out of three done.
20:08
@CatPlusPlus there was someone complaining on the mingw-w64 mailing list, that's why I'm kinda worried. He eventually split his source code into several files, which is IMHO suboptimal.
@StackedCrooked I love this.
Any suggestions on how I should store Coliru shared programs? VCS, DB, file system,...? Currently using FS, but not sure if it is the way to go...
@rubenvb stackoverflow.com/questions/10578017/… implies otherwise. Still looking
@rubenvb Welp. Look at gas options, because that's what's spitting out object files.
@StackedCrooked What do you mean by shared programs?
20:09
@ThePhD If you click the share button.
@StackedCrooked Oh. I'd think filesystem would be nice, with a unique ID assigned to each one, and maybe later on segmented by user ID?
I dunno. A Database could work it out too.
@StackedCrooked What do you expect to do with them?
I don't think VCS would be necessary: it's not like you need to keep old versions of shared programs.
if someone wants to preserve someone they can just fork it off into another.
If you just read them by ID, then a filesystem or DB doesn't make much difference.
Currently I'm using md5 as directory name. This way it also works like a compiler cache.
20:12
@CatPlusPlus gcc, gas, whatever. I'm not calling as manually. That's GCC's job.
You want to tweak object files. You do that with gas options.
Someone in my office is ringing a bell every few seconds. I might go commit murder
Maybe frontend driver has its own option for that, I don't know. I wouldn't hold my breath.
@CatPlusPlus I wonder if it would be nice if people could either create a new program or clone an existing one. Then I could create some sort of "cloud" view that shows all files as one big tree.
Then go with DB.
You need metadata for that, and with flat file storage you'll just end up reinventing a database badly.
20:15
Google Docs API seems a good fit.
Or the Ubuntu One files API.
All that free storage :D
Where you store contents of the files is the least important thing.
Actually, I meant Google Drive API.
It supports metadata.
Is OAuth good? I heard it sucks.
@MooingDuck Pro tip: murder the phone
Really just use a DB
20:20
@EtiennedeMartel Remember to do the ironing before 18:00 when you're in Belgium, though: The country might run out of electricity...
@EtiennedeMartel Heard that on the radio just today
@sehe that's uninformed bs
@sehe Reminds me of a saying we had when I was in the Air Force: "Flush twice -- it's a long ways to the dining hall."
Oh, and hi everybody.
@JerryCoffin lollllllll
20:24
We just got two extra nuclear reactors turned back on.
@JerryCoffin ew/lol
@rubenvb Woot. So, what was the 'uninformed' part?
@sehe the fact that you said it like you believed it. :P
Lately I've noticed a new behavior in Mac's TextEdit. Quitting when there is an unsaved file won't bring up a save dialog, instead it will quit and save the application state. So if you start the application it will restore the file in its unsaved state.
It's interesting.
@rubenvb Well, it's not like 'ironing' hasn't been mentioned in the natiional discussions. And, there were rampenplannen to decide which objects to cut power to, first. I didn't make it up. Of course, there was no such real risk, because Belgium would just have bought capacity if need be.
@rubenvb wikipedia says you only have two total
20:28
@MooingDuck That sounds wrong
@sehe Exactly. It's not because orchestrators of chaos and senselessness need to be believed. the media is bad enough as it is.
@rubenvb It's still fun to joke about, of course!
@StackedCrooked It's bad (but no worse than the more common alternative). I long for the day when we regain the level of sophistication VMS provided by the late 1970s -- version control integrated into the file system, so if you quit, it just saves it as a new version. If you still want the old version, it's waiting...
I wouldn't pass up an opportunity like that, especially since d'n Gentenaar mentioned 'ironing'
@MooingDuck we have two plants (+two research plants), each of which has 3-4 reactors.
20:29
@StackedCrooked that's just what Mac OSX does normally. In iMovie there isn't even a safe button
@sehe obviously. Everything about belgian politics is laughable.
Research plants don't count for national energy supply :)
@rubenvb Oh, you won't hear me joke about that. We have our own circus to run
20:30
@StackedCrooked Hell, WebDAV enables this
TIL about WebDAV.
@StackedCrooked It's also known as webshares (or sumtin') introduced with... win2k IIRC
@sehe Well, WebDAV specifies it. The implementation of WebDAV enables it.
@JerryCoffin meh. :) Okay
Many SVN over http clients actually talk WebDAV
@sehe What, you were thinking just because it was Friday I might not play hair-splitting word games?
20:33
@JerryCoffin No. Because it is (FTFY) Friday, I wasn't thinking
@JerryCoffin Wouldn't want that to happen with my 1TB of HD films.
@DeadMG Why? For things that don't get modified, being in version control just means a (tiny bit of) metadata gets stored by never used.
@sehe Do you know why this doesn't work? nice -n 10 { ./configure && make ; }
@sehe No fix needed. I was referring to the time you were [not] thinking, which was in the past, so past tense is correct. The fact that it is still Friday doesn't change the fact that it was in the past.
@DeadMG Depends on how smart. Many fs-es will be happy to do COW, also for sparse files, and will even dedup identical blocks in otherwise unrelated files/volumes (in the same pool) if you want
@StackedCrooked Perhaps because nice isn't a builtin?
@JerryCoffin You lemme do my hairsplitting, I'll let you do yours
20:37
@sehe I think you just condensed (most of) the features/requirements spec for Zfs into three lines. :-)
@JerryCoffin Exposed (again)
I got so many cupcakes.
I think I'm gonna blow.
@JerryCoffin Although I'm pretty convinced that dedup on ZFS is best left disabled unless you have the perfect use case and know exactly what you're doing :)
@EtiennedeMartel Hmmm...has Tim Horton's started to sell cupcakes now? Or have you become so un-Canadian you actually eat something that didn't come from Tim Horton?
@EtiennedeMartel Did you leave that as a separate message, specifically for out-of-context quoting?
@JerryCoffin It's Jim Norton :) /cc @Chimera
20:40
@JerryCoffin Actually, I went to this place.
@sehe Perhaps -- though people running lots of virtual machines seem to think it works pretty well on VM images.
@sehe Maybe.
@JerryCoffin That's one of the more suited loads. I'd make sure the data volums are allocated from a non-dedup pool, though
@sehe Sounds reasonable enough to me.
@EtiennedeMartel Hmmm....well, I guess that's probably still suitable, at least for a French-Canadian...
anyone found the time to try my Ambrosia 0.0.1?
20:44
@rubenvb I would try it
@JerryCoffin I used to run VBoxen on ZVol-s over iSCSI. Until I let go of the unneeded complexity/availability on my home network :)
@JerryCoffin I never really was Canadian to begin with.
@rubenvb Is she cute?
@rubenvb What do I need to read to get a minimal hello world compiled?
@Zoidberg'-- What's keeping you? No ketchup-flavoured crisps?
20:47
@bamboon well, the *.nectar.txt files currently serve as the most complete example. There's the wiki as well, with an additional example (which may use things not currently implemented).
I uploaded a debug executable (here) that you should be able to run and use to build Ambrosia itself.
@sehe Does sound a tad excessive, at least for most houses. Though a few years ago I met a guy who hosted a gettogether of WoW players -- his entire basement laid out like a computer lab, with 30+ players online at a time.
@JerryCoffin I only hosted gitweb for zfs-fuse.net for a while. Project is... hibernating now, though
@sehe Ah, no wonder the mention of zfs resonated so strongly...
12 mins ago, by sehe
@JerryCoffin Exposed (again)
@bamboon and basically, just run "Ambrosia path/to/source" where "/path/to/source" contains a *.nectar.txt file.
20:52
@rubenvb ok, I will see what I can do
Pronouncing Qt as cute is embarrassing.
I'd always just say Q-T
Qt is cute
Damn I can't even post a meme here. I fail: quickmeme.com/meme/3s39wk
@DeadMG So do I.
20:54
@bamboon thanks, just holler if you get stuck. Documentation isn't high on my todo list.
@StackedCrooked If you were Cat, you could pronounce it as "quit". Silly aside: years ago, Apple decided that pronouncing "SCSI" as "scuzzy" wasn't...Apple enough, so they decided it should be pronounced as "sexy".
That is very unsexy.
@rubenvb do I need qmake to build it the first time?
@bamboon you should be able to use the exe I uploaded.
Oh, and you need MinGW and GCC.
I'm currently working on MSVC support.
@rubenvb I am Mac OSX/Linux if you could serve me an exe for any of that?
21:05
@bamboon That's not finished yet, sorry.
@rubenvb :(, tell me when you are ready, I am always open for new stuff
Mac will be hard and last, I can only assume it's very Unixy and rely on that. I fear the commands are not quite the same across those two.
the code should be the same though, just the generated commands might not work.
Currently it's MinGW/GCC, then MSVC, then Windows/Clang, then Linux/GCC, then Linux/clang, then Mac.
long ways to go.
Mac should be similar to Linux/clang
except for fat binaries and all other mac specific junk
dylib vs so and such
I don't know how mac stuff works, so we'll see.
You give me hope it might be easy enough :)
user142019
@sehe I have Joppiesaus-flavoured crisps right now.
21:11
@Zoidberg'-- :)
user142019
I’m considering writing Hexapoda in Objective-C. It’s a terrible language but it may be interesting.
why are std::exception messages so friggin' uninformative
user142019
Because you really shouldn’t use strings to describe what’s happened.
user142019
Rather types and extra attributes/members.
@Zoidberg'-- Much better to have your users decipher a hex dump! :-)
user142019
21:14
No, you use localized UI to display errors to your users.
because C++
IOW Use boost exception
user142019
And you get those localized error messages not directly from the exception object. Separate UI and business logic.
@Zoidberg'-- Yup, so you can have a gazillion things fail while trying to report the error
user142019
Not really, no.
@sehe oh yes, because when std::map::at throws, you can use boost.exception.
user142019
21:16
If you want a terribe, non-localizable UI, sure, go ahead and display .what() to the user.
@rubenvb har har
@rubenvb When std::map throws, you're doing it wrong :)
@Zoidberg'-- How about actually handling the error and presenting a functional-domain message to the enduser?
@sehe well duh, I forgot to write the entries that should be there.
user142019
@sehe that’s what I’m saying.
@Zoidberg'-- Wokay
user142019
And that’s why .what() is useless.
user142019
class CouldNotOpenFileException {
public:
    std::string filename;
    enum {
        PermissionDenied,
        FileDoesNotExist,
        // ... anything else
        Unknown
    } reason;
};
user142019
(Very verbose (identifiers) example.)
enum { TRUE, FALSE, FILE_NOT_FOUND }
@Zoidberg'-- no, the standard should've been more precise and especially helpful.
well, hey. C++ sucks
C++ has to suck, otherwise it wouldn't be so damn awesome.
2
Use boost::diagnostic_information not .what()
user142019
21:20
Use pattern matching and {ok, Result} or {error, Details}. :P
user142019
Ultimately, you can show .what() to the user if you really cannot get any other information about the error anywhere.
user142019
I have never used Boost’s exceptions library though.
It doesn't inherit from std::exception
I don't want the user to see the std exceptions. If they happen, I failed.
user142019
@bamboon that can only be good news.
21:28
I think it's funny that you can construct an object using value-initialization syntax and then move it to the heap: std::make_shared<T>(T())
@StackedCrooked how, exactly, is it intellisense friendly?
@Zoidberg'-- Why, it should hurt to derive virtually from std::exception (and have nothrow what())
@sehe When typing Point( a popup will appear with the constructor arguments.
This is not the case when using std::make_shared<Point>(...)
user142019
Is what() allowed to return nullptr?
@Zoidberg'-- Of course. It would not be very useful
user142019
what() isn’t very useful anyway. xD
21:32
oh crap. MSVC needs boost, which needs a whole lot of stuff in Ambrosia to be written. Damn me for resorting to a 3rd party dependency.
@usr Depends on the use. If the instream is going to be a network stream, this is a bit ... impossibru. Likely this is about what the OP is trying to do, otherwise File.Copy is clearly the winner — sehe 16 secs ago
@Zoidberg'-- what()?!
user142019
that()!!
Oh, i_c()
user142019
I just connected two items incorrectly in my mind map.
@Zoidberg'-- you should have used unordered_map
user142019
21:35
OMNIGRAFFLE Y U NO COLOR NODES BY LAYER
I have a friend that claims that you shouldn't worry about bad_alloc. He reasons that if you are out of memory you are fucked either way, so no need to worry about whether or not new int might throw.
@StackedCrooked I share that opinion.
user142019
Oh now it does. Cool.
@Zoidberg'-- Becuz you pirated it
@StackedCrooked Precisely. Accurate for some applications
I'm outta here. Cyall later, crazies.
user142019
21:37
@sehe You know, that would be the worst reason ever to have it do that.
user142019
@rubenvb Sπäter.
@rubenvb Hey. Keep it real!
@Zoidberg'-- And the most fun
@Zoidberg'-- Something fillthy, no doubt
user142019
I switched the style and now we get this kind of crap:
21:37
@rubenvb lol
user142019
@Zoidberg'-- comic sans!?
user142019
IT IS ONE WORD YOU PIECE OF JUNK
@rubenvb both are rational and real!
he
xa
po
da
user142019
21:38
@sehe that’s kinda cool.
@StackedCrooked They're not
he
ax
po
ad
Connect the dots
I'm cold
@DeadMG Is the PC case open?
Shame
21:39
Is it possible to implement std::forward in C++ or does it require internal magic?
quite possible and very simple
user142019
@sehe the dots are already connected:
user142019
@Zoidberg'-- post bloddy svg :) I knew that
it's something like T&& forward(typename std::identity<T>::type&& arg) { return static_cast<T&&>(arg); }
21:40
I want to go home and play FC3. But I still have to stay here for 2 hours.
user142019
@sehe SVG?
@Zoidberg'-- Nut again?
user142019
I uploaded it as a TIFF, not SVG.
Oct 25 at 13:02, by sehe
@WTP'-- large enough http://downloads.sehe.nl/stackoverflow/hexapoda2.svg
Both std::forward and std::move are implemented in C++
21:42
I see.
It's still magic all around
Ah. I thought they were implemented in Visual Basic...
@EtiennedeMartel Fedora Core 3?!
what's the C++11 syntax for friending whole templates?
user142019
@sehe I have the OmniGraffle file which already is a vector image.
21:43
@Zoidberg'-- meh. Why post rasterized nonsense, then
user142019
I don’t know. xD
@DeadMG is that already allowed? Anyways, it should just be template <...> friend class X; right?
@sehe Strange that you don't pass arguments to X.
@DeadMG it's a declaration, not a specialization? Otherwise, just friend class X<...>; - but that wasn't your question
well, I dunno, what if I did only want to friend some partial ordering?
template<typename T> friend class X<std::vector<T>> or somesuch
21:47
@DeadMG I'd be surprised if that was allowed. I do remember seeing a question semi-recently that Xeo(?) answered with an 'access-token' based friend scheme
A KITTEH. Guaranteed to make even the most jaded motherfucker feel better. Except the cat and the puppy, of course. They're pretty much dead inside.
@sehe Imgur doesn't (apparently) accept svg.
@JerryCoffin suckiness
@EtiennedeMartel Good thing I'm not jaded
user142019
@sehe since you seem to crave an SVG version, here you go.
TIL <metadata xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">
21:53
@sehe Yesterday, in FC3, I killed two bears with a shotgun. Motherfuckers almost killed me twice.
@EtiennedeMartel Oh. I was thinking "Nice place for a vacation trip. Shame about the shotgun" with that screen shot
Makes sense. Not
@DeadMG Here it is:
7
A: C++ How to specify all friends of a templated class with a default argument?

Xeo I can imagine that there is a shorter way to denote that the friend is defined for all possible ClassImplType enum values. Sadly, there really isn't. You might try with template<ClassImplType I> friend class graph<T, I>; but the standard simply forbids one to befriend partial ...

@EtiennedeMartel D'awwww
It's a tiny monorail kitty
21:59
@EtiennedeMartel Yesterday, in FC3, I sent a bear and a tiger into an enemy camp until everybody was dead, then shot both dead with an explosive arrow.
Probably my most satisfying moment this year. :P
@netcoder How, exactly, did you "send" a bear and a tiger?
and secondly, didn't the enemy have, like, guns or something?
I just threw rocks and lured them in the camp
@DeadMG Bears and tigers can both soak bullets like they're made of steel or something.
they did have guns, but apparently tigers and tigers can...
what @EtiennedeMartel just said :P
22:01
I guess life is tough on the Rook Islands.
@netcoder Clearly in need of a girlfriend.
@EtiennedeMartel I am
Woa. That was tough.
@JerryCoffin Apply cold water to burned area.
Xeo
Xeo
22:07
@sehe I still don't like that they simply forbit specializing partial specs.
@Xeo Hmm. I can see how this would get incredibly, complicating. I think it's a fair limitation.
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe How so?
@Xeo Well, your point is likely gonna be, C++ is horrifically complex, this doesn't add too much of baggage?
posted on December 07, 2012 by Eric Battalio

Active in the C++ community? Answering questions, creating demos, sharing code snippets, or hosting a local user group meeting? If you have something to share, send it to me (ebattali@microsoft.com) for potential inclusion in a future miscellany! And now on with the show: John Bandela provides another alternative to lamda move capture. It begs (then answers) the question “how do we lam

Xeo
Xeo
@sehe I was rather asking for an example on how it would get incredibly complicated.
22:19
@sehe "C++ is much too large and complex. You should really work at simplifying it and making it a lot smaller. Oh, and while you're rewriting it anyway, you should really add this cool feature I thought up."
@Xeo I realize that. I'm too tired to come up with that. I'm also not convinced you'd agree it was too complex :) Which is why I preempted it.
I'm neck deep in XSD Schema Infosets and stuff :)
If a program is useless, it will have to be documented.
lol
Ah well.
@StackedCrooked Lobotomy
@sehe I was thinking drugs. Lot's of them..
@StackedCrooked Effectively the same
22:24
Now the radio is playing ♫ Fok jullie naaiers
@StackedCrooked I was quite happy listening to this instead
@StackedCrooked Of course. It's friday. Let's "een potje schelden". And be very surprised some teens kick a referee to death
@sehe I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. (yeah, I know: even older than I am).
Apparently lobotomy leads to contentment and lack of desire.
@StackedCrooked "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"
Oh yeah I saw that a long time ago.
22:26
@StackedCrooked ...as does death -- but I'll pass on either as long as I can.
I agree.
@StackedCrooked Nah. It's a book
I saw the movie.
I've also seen the book.
@sehe I saw it once too at the library -- when I was in highschool, there was an insanely hot girl who worked there...
Spent a lot of time reading that year.
@JerryCoffin really :)
22:33
@sehe Seriously. Of course being a shy, geeky type, I thought she was hot, but never even had the courage to ask her name...
Do you guys know any good 2d (game) tutorial about openGL?
user142019
@Jeffrey Learning Modern 3D Graphics Programming should get you started with OpenGL, but it doesn’t focus on 2D game programming.
well, there is no 2D game programming any more, really
user142019
wat
@DeadMG troll mode
22:44
@DeadMG, I don't think so.
@Zoidberg'--, thanks for the link.
2D is 3D with orthogonal projection. :v
user142019
:^v
user142019
Fuck it. I’ll use Ruby on Rails instead of Objective-C and libuv.
user142019
Objective-Cunt
user142019
Or maybe I’ll use Django but migrations have always been such a pain.
user142019
22:49
Or Flask, or CherryPy.
Or jello
user142019
Never heard of that.
fuck
LLVM won't compile :(
user142019
22:53
Hexapoda has both bug tracking and wikis. Would it make sense to make those separate apps in Django?
@EtiennedeMartel Not my type, sorry.

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