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user142019
3:00 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I am 17.
 
Bahahahahahaha
 
user142019
How is that funny?
 
I'm evil.
 
user142019
Me too.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I mentioned earlier that UFO Defense was older than Radek.
 
3:01 PM
@kbok Define earlier.
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel Some time before.
 
Oct 23 at 13:58, by kbok
it's older than daknok but it's still an excellent game
 
Aaaah.
But yeah, daknok, do you plan on getting drunk on your birthday?
 
What the hell, @Konrad tweets in French.
 
Like, seriously drunk?
 
user142019
3:03 PM
No.
 
Wut.
It's a rite of passage.
@kbok So weird.
 
Have sex with a lot of women then ?
 
That generally comes with it.
 
user142019
I can already buy alcohol.
 
user142019
Minimum age is 16 in the Netherlands.
 
3:04 PM
Oh, right. Forgot you came from a cool place.
 
When I was a teen I used to get a lot of drinking and few sexing.
This tendency has dramatically inversed since.
@Zoidberg'-- It blows my mind how in the US you can't drink until you're 21 but it's perfectly fine to drive at 16.
 
@kbok Smooth.
 
user142019
Alcohol is expensive and it makes you act like an idiot.
 
user142019
10000000000000000000000% tax.
 
@kbok In Sherbrooke, during springbreak, there's a lot of Americans moving in to party, since Sherbrooke is the largest city that close to the US border and they can drink here at 18.
And they act like complete twats.
 
3:09 PM
College kids and alcohol. Of course they act like complete twats.
 
What I generally expect when someone mentions springbreak: youtube.com/watch?v=KmgWZoZv1aQ
 
Eh, douchebags.
 
Guidos :P
also, probably one of the funniest Bones episodes ever.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Agreed
 
Ell
I went to a party last night
 
3:14 PM
Oh? Was it a huge sausage fest?
 
congrats
 
Ell
no, there were a few girls
i gave one girl half a bottle of vodka and she threw up 5 times, and then twice the morning after. I felt aweful guilty :/
I didn't even look after her, I really can't stand vomit :3
 
user142019
I’m bashing PHP in the Python room.
 
Ell
but that's not my fault right? :L she knew she was drinking n all
 
3:15 PM
Depends. Was she already drunk?
Because if so, then no, she didn't.
 
Ell
No she was sober when she started
sometimes I wish we had a private room or something so all of this wouldn't go on record and be open to the whole internet
 
No one knows who you really are, Elliot.
 
You could also not be telling us and it wouldn't go on record :P
 
Good point.
 
Ell
Yeah but that's no fun :L
 
3:17 PM
@Ell in a way it is, sure. But it's hardly a big deal, is it? She'll be fine, and everyone has to drink way too much a couple of times before they learn their limits
 
Ell
I wonder if one of you could find out where I live o.O
 
but if you give someone half a bottle of vodka, I think it's reasonable to feel that you had some role in getting her drunk ;)
 
Ell
@jalf yeah. She says she never wants to drink again :L I guess she knows to drink less next time
the thing was, she barely changed
she only stumbled :L
 
@Ell It's always like that.
 
Ell
so to me she just looked a little bit tipsy
I didn't drink at all though
 
3:18 PM
When you're really sick for the first time, you never want to drink ever again.
 
and then some of us don't
 
Ell
I have never been sick from drink
 
user142019
I’ve had several alcoholic drinks and they all tasted terrible.
 
Ell
I never want to. I can never see myself being either. I did drink quite a lot of vodka on the party before, and got quite drunk. Well maybe just severely tipsy
As you may or may not know, I used to be totally against drinking, but now it's a good feeling to be drunk. I sure hope I don't become and alcoholic :L
 
where was that git "bundle" (whatever) pastebin thing again, where you could post a collection of files?
 
3:22 PM
@Zoidberg'-- Baileys
 
user142019
Is Baileys bitter?
 
no
it's sweet
you nead a sweet tooth :-)
 
Ell
@Zoidberg'-- raspberry and lemon koppaberg
 
user142019
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Is it not even very slightly bitter?
 
Ell
koppaberg is sweet and declicious and not bitter in any which way
 
3:23 PM
@Zoidberg'-- nope
 
user142019
Maybe I’ll try it then.
 
Ell
is bailey's rum?
 
no
it's kinda creamy and sweet
 
user142019
I’ve tried wine once and it was dry as fucking cork.
 
user142019
A dry liquid.
 
3:24 PM
I know
 
@Borgleader GUI DOS?
 
You guys are weak. A good pint of bock; that's what you all need.
 
Ell
seriously try koppaberg, it's like fruit juice
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel No, a bottle of Fanta Cassis.
 
@Ell discredited for eternity
@Zoidberg'-- ruin dental health
 
Ell
3:24 PM
@sehe haha why? non-apple cider is a woman's drink?
 
@Ell the drink, silly
 
Here we have sour puss. It's a lady drink. It shrinks your balls.
 
Ell
just drink vodka from the bottle
or have some shots
then you can resume drinking soft drinks while being relaxed n shiz
 
@sehe " Originally, it was used as a demeaning term for Italian Americans in general. More recently, it has come to refer to Italian Americans who conduct themselves in a thuggish, overtly macho manner." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guidos
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel who in their right mind would drink puss?
 
3:26 PM
I thought that vodka mixed with coke or something was OK
 
@DeadMG Commercial vodka is essentially pure ethanol diluted with water. So it's okay with anything.
 
Ell
its the homebrewed stuff you need to be scared of. Didn't a load of girls die in france or somewhere from potato poisoning or something?
 
The other day I tried maple beer (i.e. brown beer brewed with maple syrup). It did not taste maple that much, though, but it was good.
 
Ell
i don't like beer
well english beer
i've never tried the light american stuff
 
That's not beer. That's piss.
 
3:29 PM
light beer/corona/desperados/reed's/lemon-flavored/whatever-else-flavored is not beer.
 
I work with this Belgian who told me that essentially, in Belgium, Stella Artois is cheap beer.
And Stella Artois indeed tastes like Belgian piss.
 
Ell
what does french piss taste like?
 
@Borgleader Ah. I thought you meant dosshell.exe or drdos
@Borgleader Well, made me google this: who knew? AARD code - funky history
 
@Ell I don't know. But you can probably get a good approximation by riding the Paris metro.
 
1
A: Weird issue with XLC++ 11.1

DevSolarstartAt = startAt++ is undefined behaviour. Because it's undefined, a compiler is at liberty to give any result it feels like giving. ;-) With GCC, -Wsequence-point (or -Wall) would emit a warning for this construct. Not sure about XLC.

^ In The Wild. Finally, a half-legitimate ++x = x++++ style question
 
3:33 PM
Why would anyone write a = a++
 
Because they might be distracted and it compiles.
 
wait... I remember something...
105
Q: What is x after "x = x++"?

MichaelWhat happens (behind the curtains) when this is executed? int x = 7; x = x++; I compiled and executed this. x is still 7 even after the entire statement. In my book, it says that x is incremented!

there we go
 
and only in java
 
Idk... it always feels to me like most UB questions are just a way to get free rep.
 
@Borgleader free rep? Where?
 
3:35 PM
Easy rep might have been more accurate
 
My fucking ISP shut down my internet for the weekend. And they were closed for the w/e. I lost a good 2 days of repwhoring...
 
D'awwwww
 
So yeah, I could be up for some free rep
 
@LuchianGrigore just for no apparent reason?
 
@LuchianGrigore Wth did you do?
 
3:38 PM
without warning you?
 
This morning it was fixed... so nothing I can do...
yup, no warning
 
@LuchianGrigore isn't this different in c++11?
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf well... that question is about Java, so it better be different
 
Ell
^did someone just link this? or did I stumble on it?
 
user142019
3:40 PM
> This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License because I couldn't find a license with an even longer name.
 
@LuchianGrigore It's still UB in C++11 right?
 
dunno
I have never used vectors before, would it be that much more simple? — Exn 41 secs ago
No they were invented to make things harder — Lightness Races in Orbit 25 secs ago
:)) L.O.L.
 
@LuchianGrigore ah :-)
 
user142019
@Mysticial Well, you assign the same variable twice in an expression without a sequence point.
 
@Zoidberg'-- sequence point in C++11?
 
user142019
3:41 PM
Does C++11 have no sequence points?
 
it has "sequenced before" and "sequenced after", instead
 
user142019
Didn’t know they removed ; and ,.
 
user142019
lol
 
user142019
(t, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) == std::make_tuple(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) by overloading operator,, because you can.
 
3:44 PM
Might as well be a macro
 
user142019
Or, you know,
 
user142019
just a wrapper around std::make_tuple.
 
Or just call make_tuple, because with operator, you can't just call it
 
It appears today is National Cat Day. Don't let that go to your head, @CatPlusPlus.
 
You have to build intermediate tuples and concat them or do crazy expression templates
 
user142019
3:47 PM
In the Lounge it’s always National Cat Day.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I couldn't care less.
 
user142019
> Pure code can throw exceptions, but it they can only be caught in the I/O part of our code (when we’re inside a do block that goes into main).
 
 
user142019
That sentence doesn’t make sense to me. What does “it” mean there?
 
^ Someone care to explain ?
 
3:48 PM
It's a cow. With a spiderman suit.
 
user142019
It's a spiderman. With a cow suit.
 
But... why
 
Spider cow, spider cow, spider cow does what a spider cow does.
 
It looks fake though.
Like it's inflatable or something.
 
It's made of some kind of resin.
 
user142019
3:51 PM
Maybe I’m a brain in a vat.
 
user142019
How can I tell?
 
Probably not.
 
Ell
do you think we will always use a hierarchial file system? or do you think we will move onto like... tag based or something. or a combination?
I think being able to tag files would be very useful
 
@Ell: That would be great indeed. At least its useful for file searching.
 
user142019
3:52 PM
Hierarchical file systems are good for machines and terrible for humans.
 
Ell
thats why I was thinking a hybrid would be good
 
user142019
Use OS X and iCloud.
 
Ell
too much $$$
 
I nearly bought a Macbook Pro two weeks ago, then changed my mind last minute.
I'd rather buy a car instead.
 
My wife needs a new laptop.. she wants a Mac. I'm not sure she could handle an Air without breaking it though
 
3:55 PM
@kbok: What are you gonna do with the savings ?
 
@ereOn Dunno. Save it, probably :p
 
Ell
Can anyone reccomend a small laptop(netbook? notebook?) that I can use for skype and facebook and browsing?
 
I plan on moving to the US in a few years and I'll need as much money as I can get.
 
^ mandarin in mandarin on a mandarin
 
user142019
Hhahahahaahhahahahahaah Learn You a Haskell for Great Good shows a code example that contains a race condition.
 
3:57 PM
@Ell: I always choose Asus or MSI : it is not the cheapest computers in the world, but they last.
 
user142019
fileExists <- doesFileExist fileName
if fileExists -- epic fail
    then do contents <- readFile fileName
 
@Ell I bought an Asus eee netbook two months ago for 300E and I'm really happy with it. I can find the reference for you if you want.
 
Does this make sense?
> Casting is a compile-time operation while memcpy() is a run-time operation. That's the reason for casting having no impact on the running time.
 
Ell
oh kk cool I'll look into asus and msi
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked no, it should be a reference rather than a pointer.
 
3:59 PM
Not really, but it's kind of a dumb question anyway.
 
@LuchianGrigore Damn.
 
@LuchianGrigore Technically, you can read that in any Chinese dialect.
 
@StackedCrooked Depends on the context. Some casts are just compile-time operations, but far from all.
 
Since they all share the same writing system.
 
4:00 PM
@Mysticial yes, because "mandarin in chinese on a mandarin" is equally funny :P
 
@DeadMG A cast is something that will translate to assembly, so is memcpy. I don't understand the distinction.
 
not all casts translate to assembly.
and not all of them translate to similar assembly to memcpy
for example, a pointer cast, often they are not translated into any assembly at all- the compiler simply performs different accesses on the original variable.
or if you cast a float to an int, on x86 that's just a transfer from one register to another
 
It might translate to more efficient assembly, but doesn't make it a "compile-time operation" imo.
 
@StackedCrooked There's a difference between "More efficient" and "Zero".
that's the distinction he's trying to make
some kinds of pointer casts are zero assembly.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Because the file could get deleted between return of doesFileExist and readFile?
 
4:02 PM
of course
one has to worry about strict aliasing invoking UB and such things
@robjb Yep. Well known that file existing functions introduce race conditions.
 
user142019
@robjb exactly.
 
user142019
Congratulations, you’ve got a race condition in Haskell in a single-threaded program.
 
I improved my benchmark by removing some cruft from the inner loop and now there's a slight performance difference between the cast-based copy and memcpy again. But it's small.
 
What is the preferred way to avoid that in Haskell? Just try to read and catch exceptions?
 
Don't code in Haskell, trolololol
 
4:07 PM
@DeadMG the compiler might see that I'm casting int -> const char* -> int and optimize it all out.
And std::copy is lagging as usual..
I want to take a benchmark-writing course.
Learn all the tricks to prevent compiler optimizations that invalidate the results.
 
I have a doubt I hope you can help me with:
 
I don't think that compiler opts invalidate the results
 
@StackedCrooked haha, that's a pretty big topic
And pretty much everyone is self-taught.
from mostly trial and error.
 
Let's say we compile a program with linked libraries (#include <mylibray>), does the final executable have the compiled library in itself?
 
Although knowing how compilers work and what optimizations they can do does help with getting around their "smartness".
 
4:15 PM
@Jeffrey Depends if static or dynamic linking
@Jeffrey It's up to you (the guy who writes the makefiles) to decide, really
 
@kbok, what is that? static or dynamic then?
 
@Jeffrey what is what ?
 
@kbok, how do I make it so the library is compiled into the executable? static or dynamic linking?
 
@Jeffrey #include doesn't link anything.
 
@Jeffrey "static" is when the library is shipped within the executable, "dynamic" is when it's a separate file (usually your .so or .dll)
 
4:18 PM
@Jeffrey: it isn't necessarily up to you. Some (closed-source usually) libraries are only provided for dynamic linking
 
@Zoidberg'-- Blue Waffle! Yum!
 
@kbok, final question: how do I static link a library?
@kbok, if it's too long you don't really have to answer it, I can look it up myself
 
@Jeffrey It depends on your compiler.
But that's easy to google :)
 
Let's say a unix-like computer (mac and linux)
 
If it's gcc, you should look for -static.
 
4:23 PM
Static link? Easy. Tune between two AM or FM stations then compile.
 
@kbok, Ok thank you guys very much
 
hth
 
glad I could help. :-)
 
@Chimera You are just an infinite pit of knowledge
 
@Collin :-)
 
4:25 PM
Guys does computer science deal with the parts of the computer or technical parts? Like microprocessors, or any kind of part through which I could create a machine not specifically a computer with a screen or something.
If not, what is that field called? :S
 
You mean microelectronics ?
 
@JosephPotts Computer Science is the mathematics behind the theory of computers, if you want to get really technical. Generally, University programs do spend quite a bit of time on computer architecture, programming and such
 
We are taught microprocessors in CS course, so yes.
 
@JosephPotts You might be thinking of what a lot of schools call Computer Engineering, which is a bit of a blend between Computer Science and Electrical Engineering
 
But I wanna do this on my own, what's the field called in which I research in depth of these technical parts.
 
4:27 PM
@JosephPotts Computer Engineering
 
CS is LARGELY about software and software design, with a smidgeon of hardware, at least it was in my University.
 
In vim, how can I ":vsplit newfile.cpp" so that, the newfile opens on the right, instead of left of existing file?
 
And of course OS, and compiler design.
 
This guy is so cool!
 
4:29 PM
@Chimera We are taught a lot of electronics as well. And I simply disliked it.
 
I dislike non-discreet mathematics.
 
@Mysticial I typically pass a counter variable as output parameter to my functions and have it incremented with the local data from the inner loops. And the end of main() I print the counter to stdout.
 
You know, double integrals to infinity and such.
 
@FredOverflow Calculus?
 
probably :)
 
4:30 PM
@StackedCrooked Yeah, that's not good enough.
 
It's a first measure. I think putting certain stuff in separate compilation units will also help to prevent the compiler from seeing no-op.
 
You need to actually use the result of whatever you're computing.
Compiler's are sometimes smart enough to separate actual code from the strings attached.
 
@Mysticial Here I try to compare memcpy vs cast-based copy. I'm not entirely confident it's a good benchmark. On the other hand, perhaps a lot of my measures aren't even needed.
 
And even then you might run into complete BS scenarios like what ICC did in the branch question.
@StackedCrooked Yeah, I saw that.
There's a bit too many functors and templates for me to see if you're benchmarking it correctly though.
 
@Zoidberg'-- You're about to turn 18, and all you're doing is inventing your own programming language and chatting in the lounge? You should be out on the streets, banging bunnies!
 
4:37 PM
I used functor instead of function pointer because I feared that a function pointer might require a pointer dereference and thus pollute the measurements.
And I'm pretty confident that functor will be inlined.
 
You suffer from efficiency fright.
 
Premature optimization is the root of all evil
 
@FredOverflow I suffer from wanting to prove my colleagues wrong.
 
Slow code for correctness god
 
4:39 PM
I want to prove that correct code doesn't have to be slower. However, it seems I'm fighting a losing battle.
 
@StackedCrooked I'd call it thought provoking or inspirational. Provocative and insightful are always dangerously close. This explains things as provocative coaching/therapy and some politicians being mistaken for visionaries, among others
 
@StackedCrooked Wait what?
 
@Mysticial Well, the memcpy-based solution is correct. The cast-based solution could be UB in case of misaligned data.
However, the cast-based solution seems to be slightly faster.
 
@StackedCrooked right
There's also the difference between practical and theory. And engineering and math.
 
If I can't proof that the correct solution is faster then I can still try to proof that the incorrect code will lead to real bugs.
 
4:43 PM
The case was that I chose a faster algorithm that is not provably 100% accurate. But the probability that it is wrong for a given input < 1 in 2^100.
 
How do you come up with that figure?
 
I pissed off the math guys.
 
@Mysticial That's statistically the roughly equal assumption of the uniqueness of UUIDs.
 
@FredOverflow It was estimated based on normal distribution.
Basically, assuming round-off error for a particular algorithm is normally distributed, I'd have to be X deviations above the mean to get wrong results.
On top of that, the wrong results will need to pass a 64-bit hash.
 
64bit isn't much for a hash
 
4:45 PM
@Mysticial That's in theory, in practice the murphy distribution applies :p
 
@DeadMG appears to be enough for this case
 
@DeadMG It could've been longer at the cost of efficiency.
So the probability of a wrong answer coming out of the algorithm is effectively nil.
Smaller than the probability of an undetected hardware soft-error.
The math guys hated me for that. The Engineers were like, "that's genius".
 
why did the math guys hate you for it?
 
Because it's not 100% provably correct.
It's only 99.999999999999999999999999%
 
If you put that into a float, it'll probably be 100.00% ;)
 
4:47 PM
In other words, I'm using an incorrect algorithm.
 
with my current scenario I need to query `ancestor<N>::Type` and `ancestor<N>::of(node)` but the problem I am facing is N is not known at compile time Though range of N is small `{0..4}` I don't want to write a switch case or something similar for that

I want something like `ancestorN(N)` to be resolved as `ancestorN<N>(N)`
 
ain't they never heard of "close enough"?
 
@DeadMG I guess not.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow banging bunnies? Are you crazy? I only bang human females.
 
They also didn't understand the concept of "background noise".
 
4:48 PM
That's what I meant. My fingers must have slipped.
@Mysticial Hardware errors?
 
@NeelBasu Sorry?
 
Ell
is there a universal language for turing machines?
 
What do you mean?
 
@Mysticial Would have thought math guys would be all about background noise
 
@Ell "lanugage"? no
 
4:49 PM
@FredOverflow Yeah. Even with the 100% correct algorithm, you still get a probability of hardware errors/programmer bugs...
 
@MooingDuck ?
 
Those are way more probable by the way than your 1 in whatever-it-was :)
 
In fact, the faster algorithm (< 100% correct algorithm) was less prone to buggy code.
 
@Mysticial also compiler and OS and other libraries
@NeelBasu it can't be done statically, ergo you can make it with a switch or not at all.
 
Ell
@MooingDuck Well in that lecture it describes a computation to be made up of the most basic "atomic" computations, what is the minimal set of instructions available for something to be able to be "turing complete"?
 
4:51 PM
Brainfuck, give or take.
 
A one instruction set computer (OISC), sometimes called an ultimate reduced instruction set computer (URISC), is an abstract machine that uses only one instruction – obviating the need for a machine language opcode. With a judicious choice for the single instruction and given infinite resources, an OISC is capable of being a universal computer in the same manner as traditional computers that have multiple instructions. OISCs have been recommended as aids in teaching computer architecture and have been used as computational models in structural computing research. Machine architecture I...
 
The atomic computations of a Turing machine are read symbol, write symbol, go left, go right, change state.
That's it. A Turing machine cannot even add two numbers atomically.
Yesterday, I wrote a Turing machine that incremented a number by 1. It already took 1 Power Point slide.
 
@MooingDuck Then whats the remedy ? isn't it akward todo switch case for 1, 2, 3 ..... ?
 
@NeelBasu well, there's other ways to do it, but they are far more awkward than a switch. They're also slower and take more memory.
 
@Mysticial I hate you for being good at math. I wish I was good at math...
 
4:53 PM
@MooingDuck Like ?
 
@Borgleader I'm not that great at math.
I took at look at a few questions from math.se... And was like - holy shit.
 
@NeelBasu a map or hash table of integers to function pointers.
 
@MooingDuck Oh! No I dont want that
 
@NeelBasu then use a switch
 
So Is that My design flaw ? that this N is a constant expression ?
 
4:54 PM
In fact, the hash that I put into the code was actually to detect hardware errors and bugs.
 
ancestor at different level will have different type
So I had to make N template parameter
 
So it wasn't actually for the purpose of catching an incorrect algorithm output.
 
@NeelBasu wait, different type? Then... I don't think that can be done without type-erasure, and I don't think that's what you want to do. So you'd have to make N known at compile time.
 
@Mysticial Well you seem a lot better at it than I am.
 
@MooingDuck I've to get Nth ancestor and return type has to be of Nth ancestor's type
 
4:57 PM
@NeelBasu then N must be a compile time constant.
 
@MooingDuck Yes BUt now I need to make a report in Spread sheet with nesting of columns and rows where I need to run a loop and I ned to feed the ` i ` into ancestor<i> this is the only case I need to pass ancestors index in runtime
 
user142019
 

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