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00:24
@MooingDuck In your recent answer something like nullptr < foo is an error, whereas foo < nullptr isn't.
@LucDanton oops
I always do that too >.<
Also your suggested implementation of the comparison/relation operators isn't very helpful for e.g. relative_ptr<T*>.
@LucDanton it fails to compile for T*, because of operator->
@LucDanton wait, the comparison... why do you say that?
It does?
@LucDanton ptr.operator->() fails for T*
00:31
@MooingDuck Well, what happens with the snippet int a, b; assert( &a < &b || !(&a < &b) );?
@MooingDuck That shouldn't be a problem. How do you figure e.g. std::unique_ptr<T*> works?
@LucDanton it probably returns a T* rather than a T, that's slightly different
Uh
So
what's std::unique_ptr<T*>::pointer then?
So how does std::unique_ptr<T*> work?
@LucDanton if we're talking about std::unique_ptr<T*>::operator->(), it returns a T**.
00:35
Oh right, I meant relative_ptr<std::unique_ptr<T*>> all along. Never was about relative_ptr<T*>.
Which problems begin with pointer and element_type btw.
@LucDanton relative_ptr<std::unique_ptr<T*>>::pointer is the same as std::unique_ptr<T*>::pointer, same with element_type
The implementations of the relational operators are problematic.
ah curses. T*::element_type wont compile either
@LucDanton oh, for relative_ptr<std::unique_ptr<T*>>::pointer, it will compare the T* values, instead of whatever they point at. Is that what you mean?
std::pointer_traits btw.
@LucDanton C++11? I don't recall that.
@MooingDuck No, that would be semantics. In this case I mean the implementation of said semantics.
@MooingDuck I don't recall when either.
@MooingDuck so i thought that I would use WUBI to install ubuntu, What is the size that i should use?
@MooingDuck This doesn't really bind the literal to the reference. It creates a temporary, initializes it with the literal, and binds the reference to that. That's why it works with an int const &, but not an int & (can't bind a non-const ref to a temporary).
@LucDanton cppreference says C++11
is the topic line a beatles ref?
00:39
@JerryCoffin I'm fine with that, just wasn't sure if it compiled in the first place.
@Cheersandhth.-Alf probably
@Cheersandhth.-Alf I doubt it.
@MohamedAhmedNabil never heard of Wubi, I'm looking it up now
^ "I am the walrus"
what then?
Wubi is the Windows Ubuntu installer thing
Not sure how it works
00:40
@MooingDuck its the ubuntu installer for windows
I had issues with Wubi
:/
Boot failures. I cant remember exactly the cause though.
If I need a linux distro I always run it inside VirtualBox
@MohamedAhmedNabil one of several, it installs Ubuntu as some sort of real OS on a virtual disk thing, looks interesting. Give it a shot.
^ Does this song much airplay where you live? Here's it's crazy.
@MooingDuck So im really installing ubuntu or some sort of virtual OS thing
00:42
@MohamedAhmedNabil it's.... a not installing Ubuntu on it's own partition, nor is it a virtual OS. It's some sort of 3rd option I've never heard of. It's installing Ubuntu in the Windows filesystem somehow.
@MooingDuck So Ubuntu is really there or is it virtual?
@MohamedAhmedNabil It's really there, it just doesn't have it's own drive.
@MooingDuck Seems nice, But what is the size that i should use?
@LucDanton so you think I made a mistake somewhere, but I'm not sure what you're thinking.
my understanding of wubi is that it installs ubuntu in the windows partition, and adds it to the boot loader so you can boot into it. Its basically running ubuntu without partitioning if I understand correctly.
00:44
@MohamedAhmedNabil 30GB I guess?
@ITNinja that's what I got out of the wikipedia page
@MooingDuck There is from 3 to 30GB Is that the size of a partition it makes or what?
@MohamedAhmedNabil it's the size of the windows file that Ubuntu will use as its harddrive.
@MohamedAhmedNabil thats how much usable space you will have after the installation of the OS i believe
@MooingDuck Given two objects a, b of type relative_ptr<std::unique_ptr<T*>> then what do you expect of a < b?
@MooingDuck hmmmm
Can it go over 30GBs?
00:46
@LucDanton it should return the same result as comparing the T* values
@MooingDuck Which is UB, very much most of the time.
@MohamedAhmedNabil nope i dont think so. Its not supposed to really be a proper dual boot from what ive read. Its more or less to try out Ubuntu.
@LucDanton oooooooooh, that's what you're trying to get at
@MooingDuck Well, is it a feature?
@LucDanton I don't see that as an issue, since one normally doesn't put T* in a unique_ptr anyway
00:47
@ITNinja So not WUBI for a proper Dual boot?
@MohamedAhmedNabil it is a dual boot, they just share the same partition. I've never heard of it, but if they say it works, that's awesome!
@MohamedAhmedNabil Im not positive, but im pretty sure wubi isnt supposed to be an option for a dual boot eqivilant.
@MooingDuck Could be std::shared_ptr or std::unique_ptr<T, D>. Does it really matter that it's std::unique_ptr<T*>?
@MooingDuck Who should I believe? :|
@MohamedAhmedNabil nobody is contradicting anyone else, so believe everyone?
@MohamedAhmedNabil oh, IT Ninja contradicted me. nevermind
00:49
@MooingDuck :| Who should i believe
According to the definition of "multi-boot" (and therby dual-boot), it is multibooting
@MooingDuck lol sorry xD Im not trying to lol. I have used wubi before though, and if it works for your machine you can use it, but IMO its not a good equivilent for a dual boot because of the space limits.
@MooingDuck Not to mention you now apparently also support relative_ptr<T**>.
@MooingDuck I already have an empty partition, so i might aswelll go ahead and get ubuntu the normal way ?
00:50
plus, ubuntu is easy enough to dual boot just using a livecd or a usbkey lol
^ I think this must be it, but I can't watch it.
@LucDanton I didn't go out of my way to do so, and doing such a thing would be a bad idea
@LucDanton I only intended to support one pointer deep
@MohamedAhmedNabil yeah
@MohamedAhmedNabil yeah, that would be my suggestion
Oooooooooooor you could use std::less<element_type>. How do you usually compare pointers anyway?
@MooingDuck Awesome Thanks guys. I will check tutourials on it, just to make sure I dont screw up
00:52
You've never dual booted before?
@MohamedAhmedNabil Ubuntu has an official guide for it i believe. But just in case, make sure you back everything up and make a recovery cd
@Rapptz I never installed an OS before
@ITNinja Even if im using an empty partition?
I remember when this game had compatibility issues with Windows Vista I would help my friends on Skype to dual boot with XP.
@LucDanton I don't know why you're focusing on comparing pointers. My code is not intended to be used to compare pointers, and the OP never made mention of comparing pointers.
00:54
@MohamedAhmedNabil Just in case you mess up for any reason, its smart to back up everything beforehand.
I'm focused on using < when nothing calls for it. Other way around.
@LucDanton oh wait, I broke my comparitors when I fixed that null can be on the LHS! Oops! No wonder....
no wait, no I didn't
@ITNinja All my important documents are on my hard drive anyway, Anything else I would risk loosing with ease. I wont be sad if I accidentaly lose my Windows :D
@LucDanton if one has a relative_ptr<unique_ptr<int>>, everything compiles and runs just how the OP wanted AFAICT.
@MohamedAhmedNabil whatever you feel comfortable with lol.
00:56
If you don't feel that the implementation are important, then why did you write them? Just leave the operators declared but not defined and let the OP figure it out.
If you expect to write an answer and not get commented on it I don't know what to say.
@LucDanton I think you're misreading my code, or the OP, one of the two. There's no pointer comparisons going on.
The relational operators don't work for std::unique<T*, D>, T** or std::shared_ptr<T*> most of the time. Do something about it.
@LucDanton I should put a warning in that comparing pointers is UB?
@LucDanton you sound agitated and I'm sorry for that, I'm just confused. :(
No. Get rid of the UB. Or of the implementations.
@MooingDuck I pointed out a bug, yet you won't fix it.
Who likes bugs?
@LucDanton It's UB to compare pointers, and that applies to the OP using my code to compare pointers. I don't see why I should make my code uglier or slower to handle the case where the OP is doing UB. Do you know a simple way to implement the comparison to not compile for the UB cases?
01:02
std::less.
10 mins ago, by Luc Danton
Oooooooooooor you could use std::less<element_type>. How do you usually compare pointers anyway?
Have you ever used e.g. std::map<T*, foo>?
@LucDanton no
Well, it works.
No need to take precautions.
Isn't that nice?
@LucDanton wait, std::less<T*> is not UB, but < on pointers isn't? Really?
Yes. Really.
@LucDanton whoa
01:04
So when you put on your generic programmer hat, < means 'comparison for numerical-like types or random-access iterators', std::less means 'comparison'.
@LucDanton how would they determine UB vs not-UB?
I thought pointer comparison was implementation defined, not necessarily UB.
@MooingDuck Implementation magic.
You need a template argument btw. std::less<element_type>.
std::less is just < on my machine.
"For templates greater, less, greater_equal, and less_equal, the specializations for any pointer type yield a total order, even if the built-in operators <, >, <=, >= do not." WHOA
01:07
@StackedCrooked Unspecified actually.
ok, NOW I can go pee
Nice to know.
^ Meanwhile...
I don't think many people here will know that song. It's a 90s classic really.
What are other cool OS other than Linux, Windows and MAC
Minix /s
01:12
@LucDanton thanks for sticking with me even though I frustrated you :(
No hurt feelings.
What are other cool OS other than *nix, Windows and MAC
@MohamedAhmedNabil um.... hmmm. I dunno of any
@MohamedAhmedNabil That's a wrong assumption. Not all of those are cool. :P
01:15
Macs are cool?
@Mysticial ok the MAC is expensive and Windows is buggy. I agree
@MohamedAhmedNabil heh, also note that Mac is a *nix OS :D
And MAC means hardware address.
Windows isn't that buggy.
Windows? Buggy? Not since windows 7
I had no issues with it whatsoever
01:16
@Rapptz Yea it is, Its like they find 1 bug each day, horribally coded
@Rapptz And Mac puts user in a proverbial buggy.
@MohamedAhmedNabil Name 5.
^ this
@Rapptz I can name 512
Then do so.
01:17
@Rapptz I dont feel like it :P
Yeah, and do it in the bin.
You can't even list 1?
I did hear a teacher say that once in a lecture, let me find it
eventually i wanna try out openbsd :P but right now, i dont have the time to mess with it >.>
(its unix based lol)
@MooingDuck I think apple will press charges :P
01:19
AmigaOS doesn't appear to be *nix
@MohamedAhmedNabil For what?
Wasn't the original Unix by Dennis Ritchie proprietary/closed source?
@Rapptz Mac is *nix, they should sue all other *nix OSes :P
The *nix source isn't theirs to start with...
So many operating systems. So little time >.>
OS X is a certified unix.
01:22
found a list of kernels, most of them are *nix from what I know en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_operating_system_kernels
@Rapptz > The Open Group, an industry standards consortium, owns the UNIX trademark.
@Borgleader Sarcasm >.>
Here you go
That guy sounds like a total tool.
@Rapptz His lectures are quite popular.
@Rapptz He is total awesomeness, One of the best CS teachers i have seen
01:25
See?
lol'd
Why would he be popular? 2 minutes in and he's showing bias towards Mac and using hyperboles without any evidence to bash Windows and you're using it as a way to demonstrate that Windows is bug infested.
I used to watch his things. But looking back at it now he does sound like a tool.
I don't even know what that means.
@StackedCrooked: That sentence reminded me of Bones. She says it all the time.
01:28
I like urbandictionary sometimes.
@Rapptz You always try to find the flaws in people, dont you?
@Rapptz he is quickly revealing he knows nothing of how to use Windows
@MohamedAhmedNabil Sure.
I had started watching programming classes from MIT on iTunes, I found them to be of much higher than anything you find on youtube (thank god).
that was my impression too @Mooing
01:30
@Rapptz Anyways, I like the teacher to be fun and active.
While I'm definitely not an Apple fan, iTunesU is definitely a good source for learning stuff.
Fear what you do not understand
@Rapptz I have the impression that this is common among uni lecturers.
@Borgleader I dislike apple but iTunes is one of the best players for managing playlists etc
iTunes is one of the absolute worst players I have ever used in my life.
01:31
@Rapptz seriously
@Rapptz You make it sound like you are 500 years old or something.
@Rapptz You just cant catch a break, can you? :D
I have to agree with Rapptz, iTunes sucks as a player for media. I only like the iTunesU part of it (and even then I only download the videos through iTunes, I watch them in something else)
@StackedCrooked I've used so many and looked so far for a good alternative to iTunes for my iPhone/iPod that the thought of it brings this out.
I wanted to say something else but I lost my train of thought.
Guess I'm not a picky person then. I use iTunes and I think it works just fine.
01:33
Do you run it on OS X? I think it only runs bad on Windows because when used in OS X it runs pretty nicely.
Except for its habit of creating duplicate entries.
@Rapptz Yep, I'm on OS X.
@MohamedAhmedNabil I remember now. I was saying that a first year teacher usually finds out that knowing the course content just isn't enough to be a teacher, they have to be an entertainer too.
I think the biggest problem with first year classes is getting the students to interact, most of them are scared of sounding stupid, and won't ask questions etc
imho i think that's true at pretty much any level of education
hmm perhaps
Definately not appropriate in the workplace
01:37
No definitely not
@Aesthete A lot of my classes when I used to go to classes always had the professor asking stuff such as "What is the answer to this", either explicitly or implicitly but very few people participated.
I wanna make a quick voting
@Rapptz Awwwkward!
Windows XP vs Ubuntu for a programmer
Doesn't matter.
01:39
^ this
hmmmm intresting. hmmmmm......
I think CS students are especially conscientious of how their peers perceive their skill level
Is there a reason why you still have XP? I always thought those who had XP left are those in corporate jobs who don't want to update and Mooing Duck.
Programming can be a lot of, "Look how big my dick is" - to put it bluntly
LOL "and Mooing Duck"
01:40
@Aesthete On this chat it's certainly worse.
SO can be a pretty good example of it at times.
@Aesthete You can say that again.
I'm still afraid to answer programming questions here or talk about it because of that reason lol :(. Same with SO really.
I feel bad for people starting out, who get raped with downvotes and slander because they want to ask for help.
Sure, some question are beyond retarded, but some are just genuine juniors asking for genuine help
@Rapptz I was thinking about getting vista but I hated it for obvious reasons so I didnt get it, I usually upgrade my Windows when my computer crashes and so far It has been going 4 years without crashing and also because of my laziness and fear that Windows7 might be like vista
01:42
Windows 7 is beautiful :)
Yeah, but on the other hand I can't blame people for getting fed up when people outright post their homework hoping we'll do it for them with no effort on their part (for example, 20 min ago some guy posted his java assignment 3 times in a row)
I'm very likely to skip Windows 8.
@Rapptz Me too.
@Rapptz I know, Check the rest of the reasons i Stated, And I didnt want to pirate it since that was the only choice I had. So i sticked with XP
I had an original copy of Windows 7 Home Premium but I torrented Ultimate because my hard drive crashed and I wanted an upgrade.
01:44
@Rapptz I did get it pre installed on my Laptop thou, amazing stuff
I still think ubuntu is better
I have access to MSDNAA so Windows doesn't cost me anything ^.^
You know on 9/11 people were still using 1998. Kind of crazy.
You just got it like, 4 hours ago or less.
Feels more like 40 min ago
True.. maybe 2 hours or less.
01:46
@StackedCrooked Oh, The old windows... ah youth
@StackedCrooked No love for Windows ME?
@Rapptz Not particularly. It was very unstable.
I heard Windows ME was an absolute disaster.
I had Windows ME lol :(
The only positive aspect about ME was a fast boot speed. Everything went downhill after that.
01:47
I didn't like it though.
I think they released it to make Windows XP look crazy good in comparison.
@Rapptz Like Vista-Win7? lol
Seems like Vista served the same purpose for 7 :P
> A PC World article dubbed Windows Me the "Mistake Edition" and placed it 4th in their "Worst Tech Products of All Time" feature.
@Borgleader LMAO!
01:49
@StackedCrooked Wonder what's #1.
@Rapptz I believe it was AOL. Yep, followed by RealPlayer.
Oh god I remember getting free 6 months AOL internet CDs in magazines and stuff
lol those AOL cds..
Wow #3
> Back in 1995, when RAM cost $30 to $50 a megabyte and Windows 95 apps were demanding more and more of it, the idea of "doubling" your system memory by installing a $30 piece of software sounded mighty tempting. The 700,000 users who bought Syncronys's SoftRAM products certainly thought so. Unfortunately, that's not what they got.
Wow... talk about false advertisement
01:59
I just realized that edits from the review queue don't bump the question to the front page... em... isn't that dangerous?
oh wait, nvm. I see them now...
How?

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