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21:00
I used to consider working abroad. But now I kinda started liking my town.
Or you go broke halfway across the world.
@MooingDuck isn't it the container that is considered full of bugs because they didn't think it through
I moved country to work and live.
I'm Belgian, however I work and live in the UK
Broke in the Himalayas. Oh crap!
21:00
@lezebulon you're thinking of std::vector<bool>. bitset is fine
or is that std::vector<bool>
It's not full of bugs.
Even more: It's (actually) working
It thought it was advised to never use it
So you've heard good advice
21:02
@lezebulon it is, because it's very strange. but not buggy.
It's shitty advice. You just need to be aware what it exactly means.
Which is pretty much true for anything in C++.
4
hate hate hate.... whatever, im going to sleep
g'night and cya tomorrow
@lezebulon The "problem" with std::bitset (to the extent that there is really a problem) is that it's one of the classes that predates large chunks of the STL having been added to the standard library. It's a decent class, but was never really intended to be a "container" (as it's now defined) nor to fit together with most of the other classes at all.
@BartekBanachewicz Later.
@JerryCoffin Boost has a dynamic_bitset. I wonder if it's any good.
@JerryCoffin on the other hand, it works exactly how one would want a bitset to work, right?
If I wanted my bitset to be a container, I'd use a vector.
21:10
@MooingDuck Depends. The big, obvious problem is that it's not dynamic. It's really intended as a way to view/manipulate something like an unsigned long as a collection of bits. For something like a sieve of Eratosthenes, it's not really particularly useful. Other than that, I seem to recall having been mildly annoyed when I used it, but not to the point that I can remember any specifics.
@JerryCoffin oh, I thought there was a dynamic version in the library too
I have used it though, and never been more than mildly annoyed, so even if it doesn't work exactly the way I'd want, it's decent enough.
oh well.
@MooingDuck std::vector<bool> is pretty much what you get for a dynamic version. It's actually a lot more useful than many people realize -- you just have to realize that it's not a container, and shouldn't try to use it as one.
@JerryCoffin was just reading your blog, saw you wrote a rant on COM and MS basing their Win 8 API stuff off it.
I agree, that's the stupidest thing they could have done
I mean, COM is SOOOO fugly
21:18
I agree.
all they had to do is say "Our flagship languages are C++ and C# and we expose wrappers for those languages"
then just ship a regular C API
MS has obviously got some douchebags employed
@TonyTheLion Though in a somewhat different way, it's pretty similar to our earlier subject: XML. Intended as the ultimate solution, but ultimately just a bigger problem than all the others put together.
@TonyTheLion They just don't understand the problem.
@JerryCoffin true. As is the same with the Windows Registry.
the problem wasn't that the C APIs didn't serve their intended purpose. The problem was that they didn't ship the wrapper code people needed to use them
21:22
usb-disk + xcopy /D/S ftw
also, the problem that COM supposedly solves of inter process communication, could surely have been solved in a more elegant way
@DeadMG you should go there and explain it to them, and maybe they'll give you a job :P
@TonyTheLion no, not easily. compare COM to CORBA, or Java RMS (whatever, don't recall)
or SOAP for that matter
very ugly
all
named pipes?
@Cheersandhth.-Alf RMI, IIRC
message queues
well maybe they're ugly too
CORBA would actually be IIOP
@TonyTheLion IMO, the registry has completely different problems. The big problem is that they introduced an entirely different (and lousy) API for what could have just been a special file system, specialized for storing small pieces of data.
oh, I always forget that COM is supposed to be a binary interface
something which I've never really understood
what does that really mean: binary interface?
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Sort of true, but COM solves a much smaller problem. It doesn't deal with inter-machine and all the associated baggage (everything from network time coordination to security, etc.) that RMI, CORBA, etc., do.
21:26
you can have COM with RPC
COM doesn't care, really
Are named pipes on Windows uni-directional like they are on Unix?
I don't know
@TonyTheLion There is COM+ and DCOM, but they're mostly pretty much dead. MS uses them some internally, but that's about it. Even then, it's a smaller problem, because it's leaving all the ugly baggage to the RPC.
oh and don't get me started on the COM threading model, urghhh
@JerryCoffin oh yea, that
@JerryCoffin Severak megabytes of porn? Impressive. ASCII pron, I presume?
21:28
we're talking about COM and you bring up porn?
@sehe JPEGs, IIRC. I honestly don't know exactly how much it really was though.
would have been fun if it was gigabytes.
@JerryCoffin Several megabytes. Lessee, about 4 pics then, assuming ~2 MP :)
I was at a LAN party once, and this guy had gigabytes of pron on his machine, and welcomed everyone to have a browse. Don't ask
@TonyTheLion I'm compelled to ask: "Don't ask what?"
21:31
whatever it is you may want to ask about that statement
it's not open to questions
anyone want to mumble?
@TonyTheLion Is this statement open to questions?
@TonyTheLion It means "Does not depend on compiler implementation details. Can be called from pretty much any language. Can be replaced without recompiling clients."
@sehe JPEG does lossy compression though. Most of the crap my wife insists I upload to Facebook is like 100K per picture, if memory serves. If I had to guess, I'd say most porn is probably lower quality/more compressed.
@JerryCoffin Let me do a quick check on the page I'm browsing right now... brb
21:32
@DeadMG ah I see
@sehe you're browsing pron while here??
@TonyTheLion What, you don't have tabbed browsing?
You know what's worse... I'm sometimes even here while at work. Ew
@DeadMG I do, I have many tabs open.
then what prevents one of them from being pron?
@sehe yes, I'm guilty of that too.
21:34
So: 56k is the verdict
@DeadMG well, nothing really, but it would be awkward to come in here and say, "oh I"m just on ****hub.com and lemme give you guys a link" or some such thing
wget http://******prudes*******/{01,02,03,04,05,06,07,08,10}.jpg
du -shc *.jpg
^ method and sample data disclosure :)
hentai ha
@TonyTheLion Yeah, probably because SO would frown on you explicitly linking to porn in the chat
Erm... I didn't actually see it (yet). feh *.jpg soon :)
21:36
@DeadMG true
nevertheless, this is the internet
@TonyTheLion Actually one of the very few sites I know. I remember this being a topic a while back and I learned all kinds of nice new sites. I forgot all of them.
This being hentai is completely random. It just so happened to be the most recently added (?) gallery on that site
@sehe well, Google could teach you all about pron
HELLOOOOO - where's everyone gone to?!?
I don't get it :)
where do you think?
fap fap fap
In my head, mostly
No the puppy is sweating in another room. 1:1 with another chap
21:39
oh I wanna go watch
actually
I'm talking to my sister about my less-than-stellar relationship with my parents
@JerryCoffin oh, but COM does deal with inter-process and inter-machine. or, DCOM does. but it's all the same soup.
i wonder why i've stored movie downloads dubbed in russian with no english subtexts
@DeadMG you think you can mend your relationship with your parents? Parents are important, you know :)
have i at one time planned to learn russian?
@TonyTheLion right, they give money when they die!
21:42
LOL
@Cheersandhth.-Alf is it a porn?
@MooingDuck And they give milk when you are born. Ph wait
why do you need a dub or subs for it
no. there's one jason bourne and one science fiction. although the difference isn't that great, is it
@MooingDuck well there that, but just during the time they are alive, I mostly referring to
21:44
@Cheersandhth.-Alf It sort of is, and sort of isn't -- and that's one of the problems. COM has a lot of limitations that don't make sense for the usual use, just in case somebody might want to use it in a way most people wouldn't even consider. Nobody seems to have ever really thought hard about things like what belongs in COM itself, and what belongs in an application server the uses COM objects.
Good night people
@ManofOneWay G'night.
@TonyTheLion Not really likely.
They should mind their own business.
21:45
And so should I, I guess :)
Proposal to move to an AST-based compilation process was a lot more controversial than I expected: http://markmail.org/message/trt5oz5uioxe3fdv
@sehe You still have your mumble channel?
PHP worries about performance?
thought they had other things to worry about
@ManofOneWay yes
come on mumble
we can feast in mumblings
How many are you ?
@ManofOneWay Yup
21:48
just me and sehe atm
but he's very quiet
I'll join tomorrow
Have to sleep now
@TonyTheLion it means that the memory layout of an object is fixed. it is the layout that 32-bit visual c++ produced. :-)
@sehe I'm trying to think of something clever to say about compilation without using an AST, but I'm just left speechless at the very notion.
21:49
@TonyTheLion not really in the mood to talk :)
a COM object starts with a vtable pointer
and that's all that calling code knows for "classical" COM
@TonyTheLion I have a sore throat, and it is late. And I'm watching very enthiusing youtube footage:
@sehe oh I see
@Cheersandhth.-Alf right
@TonyTheLion Oh the virtues of twitter
I have a twitter account, but I never use it
21:52
@Cheersandhth.-Alf as well as the first three slots in that vtable: AddRef, ReleaseRef, QueryInterface IIRC
So if I understand correctly COM messages are serialized method calls.
and for any given binary interface, the slots of that interface
but all interfaces are derived from IUnknown
but i was talking about the object data (object memory layout)
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Not just the layout. COM object do not support data members, they only have interfaces, and a very funny way to 'pivot' among the implemented interfaces.
21:55
I've always found that the strangest interface name IUnknown, it's like they didn't know what to call it?
@TonyTheLion Well, it's an object of an unknown type.
But it's known because it's called IUnknown, so it's not really unknown :P
Also, the 'binary interface' includes a very strict definition of allowed parameter types and marshalling semantics. The interface is usually 'described' in IDL which can get translated to a TLB (typelibrary) - sort of 'precompiled' form.
@sehe well here you're quite wrong. it depends on how portable you want your COM class. early COM had a lot of requirements, but they were mostly ditched with the advent of "ActiveX".
right
ActiveX, the next nightmare
21:56
As I recall "COM+" added standardized ways to get at the data, but I may be wrong
Furthermore, COM objects frequently implement 'IDispatch' which is supposed to be the 'reflection' of the IDL - but there is no guarantee everything should be avaiable via IDispatch
I'd lost interest in the technology at that time... ;-)
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Property getters and setters, yes.
I actually have a book on COM
My uncle claims that shaving works better on greasy skin and thus it's better to shave before taking a shower.
21:57
only read parts of it
not sure. old OLE (the IDispatch interface) added property getters and setters. but that was long before COM+. not the same really.
The standard is that you have functions that take ref/out parameters and return HRESULTS, and they have 'magic' names: get_PropName and set_PropName
@TonyTheLion Basically IUnknown is (almost) equivalent to void * -- you know nothing about it, but you're able to do (the equivalent of) dynamic_cast to some derived type.
@TonyTheLion I have 3. I win
-2
Q: Is lazy practical

z_axisLazy will make programmer lose control for software execution, i.e. i am not sure when the code will be really executed or it just creates trunks. Hope experts can shed a light on me.

21:58
@sehe oh god.
@CatPlusPlus Insta kill by Mr. Harvey.
@JerryCoffin ah, that's a good way of looking at it
Good thing I made a polite comment, what with mod watching and all. :v But really, gods, where do all control freaks come from.
MUST CONTROL EVERYTHING.
Also, properties can be given property IDs. Property 0 is the default property. This is used in languages like VB, so you can name a Control and get it's default value (e.g. textBox1 -> textBox1.Text).
I love when irrelevant shit like that is hidden from me.
21:59
@CatPlusPlus I don't think that question means what I think it means, so what does it mean?

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