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5:02 PM
Why? o_O
 
Because it’s awesome.
Just like me.
 
> The lesson: If the optimist says the glass is half full, and the pessimist says the glass is half empty, the physicist ducks.
Because I like the oatmeal.
I wish I could buy the bacon one, and put it in my office, but it's too crude, even for my company.
 
Oatmeal is supposed to be very healthy.
Too bad I can't stand the consistency of it. Makes me want to puke when I eat it.
 
-1
Q: It is relevant to develop Android apps in Java?

MyTitleIt is relevant to develop Android apps in Java? Now, after releasing new versions of NDK, which make possible to develop entire Android application using only C++, for most vacancies strong knowledge of C++ is more important than Java. And I assume that most projects are are developed using only ...

Close votes.
 
Gravatar y u cache.
Caches are evil.
@Drise Who is constantly up and down voting that question?
It looks funny.
 
5:12 PM
@RadekSlupik Not me...
 
Me
xD
 
Stop DDoSing Stack Exchange.
 
Out of my last 7 helpful flags, I have an average of -4 on each.
 
So you can develop whole android apps using only C++?
 
5:14 PM
@mfontanini You can do it with C# in Mono I think
 
That's a good oatmeal comic... plays well into the discussion about religion we had yesterday
 
@Chimera I see your religion and call you a bacon.
 
@mfontanini Yes, but it's hard
 
 
@Drise Thought you could only use Java.
 
5:15 PM
Using C++ to develop Android apps is silly.
 
@RadekSlupik Better than using Java.
 
It’s like using a crowbar to get a nail out of a wooden plank.
 
Though you've got nice functional languages that work on Android, so why bother with either.
 
5:16 PM
It says "parts of your app". OP in the question linked said "entire apps".
 
@RadekSlupik Python?
 
@Drise No. Using C++ to make complete Android apps.
 
I see your bacon and raise you a relationship
 
@RadekSlupik More like using a scalpel.
 
@Drise No, you can't.
 
5:17 PM
@RadekSlupik Your gravatar silly.
 
@Drise You are silly.
@StackedCrooked How are you going to do that with a scalpel? :P
 
What I want to see is Haskell Runtime ported and adapted to Android.
 
Also, I'll just advice against using the NDK for anything but glue code or highly specialised critical code.
 
I remember Dexter stroking somebody’s cheek using a scalpel.
 
5:18 PM
@RadekSlupik With patience.
 
The NDK is basically a pain the mikta to work with.
 
@Tocs Nice
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Reasonable approach
 
You'll be a lot better off putting up with Java.
 
How will the NDK work if Android runs on phones with different architectures? Or does Android only support ARM?
 
5:19 PM
I hate kids who dump c++ tags on random shit. Gettin by my filters and all.
 
Fat binaries?
 
@RadekSlupik Most devices are ARM. AFAIK you need to target different architectures separately.
 
They've added MIPS support to NDK.
I just read the notes.
I don't know why would they use MIPS but there you go.
 
Needing multiple binaries just to support al devices is silly. They should support either only one architecture, or fat binaries.
 
@RadekSlupik Theoretically Android can run on something else, but the phone market is thoroughly dominated by ARM. Writing for anything else is like trying to ensure that your C++ code will run on an ENIAC.
 
5:22 PM
FatELF is not in the kernel.
Besides, it died or something.
Also it sucks for the size.
 
@RadekSlupik what if it's seperate binaries, but transparent to the user? (somehow, OS assisted)
 
In that case it’s OK.
But whether you put it in one file or two doesn’t really make a difference.
 
Still uses up extra resources ( flash for example ).
 
Fat binaries are multiple binaries, just glued together.
 
@RadekSlupik if when aquiring the file the OS selects the right one for you, saves on size.
 
5:28 PM
@CatPlusPlus Exactly.
They just have a header which says which parts of the file belong to which architectures.
 
They offer little benefit.
Especially when user never runs the executable directly.
 
CPAN is awesome.
 
CPAN sucks. Proof: it is the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network. ■
4
 
Also, I win. I just generalised away out hundreds of boilerplate code.
 
5:33 PM
Fat binaries make distribution easy, but are wasteful ever-afterwards. The Google Play Store can make distribution easy without fat binaries, so they'd offer virtually no benefit for Android (even if there were phones with other processors to put them to use). same is true for iOS, Windows phone, etc.
 
@StackedCrooked lol wtf
 
@StackedCrooked Definitely. Java > anything
 
In that case, Haskell isn’t anything.
 
@StackedCrooked Plink @Mysticial.
 
5:35 PM
It doesn't say that Java is faster than C++. It's the cost relative to integer assignment.
 
@StackedCrooked Oh, nevermind. Don't bother him.
 
Seriously how could integer division be 3 times faster ?
 
@StackedCrooked "Accurate"? I think the word you're looking for would be "idiotic" or perhaps "insane".
 
Languages don't have speeds, so no, it's not accurate.
It even says so itself:
> Measurements between C++ and Java are not directly comparable.
 
It's not a measurement between C++ and Java, but between operations within each language.
 
5:38 PM
This entire document is pointless and it knows it.
 
@StackedCrooked I think the Java array operations are slower than that.
 
@StackedCrooked And that is different how?
It's still "hurr language speed".
 
@CatPlusPlus Given the source, it's probably safe to assume they mean using the Dalvik VM for Java and gcc for C++; even then, different versions of gcc vary pretty widely.
 
@CatPlusPlus The baseline cost is different.
 
What.
 
5:39 PM
@CatPlusPlus All measurements are relative to integer assignment in the same language
@CatPlusPlus the two columns are not directly comparable
 
@CatPlusPlus They're all relative to speed of integer assignment. If (for example) integer assignment in three times as fast in C++ as in Java...
 
Meh.
Still silly.
 
You guys don't get the cat.
 
Micro benchmarks are evil and should die in fire.
 
Hmm OpenGL 4.3 now has compute shaders, what's the purpose of OpenCL now?
 
@Tocs OpenCL is for general programming.
 
@thecoshman You can define the pressure inside a sealed container (like the vacuum inside) as the pressure outside the container
which is tricky
 
Cairo!! Y U NOT HAVE Good documentation? FML.
 
@Chimera Was Cario written by a programmer?
 
@Chimera "If it was hard to code, it should be hard to use."
 
5:42 PM
Hmm, their functionality just seem so similar :/
 
@Drise Haha of course. But there is no excuse for a large project to be lacking in good documentation.
 
It's open source project. Deal with it.
 
@thecoshman so I don't have an answer. Because pressure is a crappily defined concept. Like temperature.
 
Just read all the header files
 
@rubenvb It's a thing.
 
5:44 PM
@CatPlusPlus Oh I can deal with it. But even for open source, the documentation is still bad.
 
That's impossible.
 
I honestly have no idea how certain people at my company thought this UI Reskin being pushed through is a)attractive or b)usable.
 
> If l.Capacity And 1 <> 0 Then
And 1 != 0? Are you fucking retarded?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's actually worse than "undefined".
it's defined depending on the context.
 
Exactly. A thing.
 
5:46 PM
Contextual thing.
 
math and stuff is also in your way
its best definition is actually by statistics.
well, statistical physics
 
Oh god, there is an Open Source project to reimplement BeOS.
 
Would there be a way to collect all "How can I optimize this?" into one FAQ, and mark all the rest as duplicates?
 
@Chimera Can you find another library rather than cairo? It sounds of poor quality..
 
5:52 PM
@Drise Cairo poor quality? I would tend to differ
 
@Drise Well I could, but I'm limited by what our embedded system can support. Cairo itself is wonderful, but learning how to use it is somewhat of a pain because I can't find really comprehensive documentation... It's just a learning curve thing though.
 
@rubenvb He's always complaining about it...
And it's also written in C.
 
@Drise Not about Cairo, about it's documentation.
Cairo is actually quite powerful.
 
@Drise well, I'll give you that.
Doing what Cairo can do is far from simple.
Closes you have in C++ is Qt's graphics framework, but then you'd need to implement all the output formats Cairo supports
 
What does it do?
 
5:54 PM
But the good news is I've been able to find support when the documentation let me down.
@Drise It's a 2D Vector graphics library.
 
@Drise vector graphics with pdf, ps, X, OpenGL, Windows,... output.
 
and font rendering through pango too
 
@Drise The usual. Stuff.
 
Looks similar
I enjoy VTK to be honest. It works quite well.
And it's fast
 
5:58 PM
@sbi C# can suffer from heap fragmentation? Doesn't C# have a compacting Garbage Collector?
 
But it may be more science oriented than Cairo. Dunno.
 
@FredOverflow Heap fragmentation will ask more of the GC.
Also, large objects (dunno how much "large" is) are allocated separately.
 
sbi
@R.MartinhoFernandes Image processing was involved in the case I have seen.
 
Sigh I think one of the things on my list of irksome behaviors of C++ is int / int = int. Not float.
I dislike that you must cast...
 
I ordered three books on amazon yesterday at 11 am, and they still haven't shipped 33 hours later. I guess I'm a bit spoiled when it comes to fast shipping with amazon...
 
6:02 PM
@FredOverflow I'd complain. They usually gve me free shit when I do. "As an exeption for my account"
 
@Drise Isn't that the behavior of practically every "C like" language?
@Drise I produce my own shit, thank you very much ;)
 
@FredOverflow Still irksome.
 
@Drise IME, wanting int/int = int comes much more often than wanting int/int = double.
 
Separate integer division operator is better.
 
Can you show me an argument why?
I hardly ever want integer division. I'm always casting to floats.
or using 100.0
 
6:05 PM
Because then you have separate and distinct behaviour and you pick the one that match the semantics you need.
 
@Drise namely that 99% of the time I want to store the result in in an object of the same type as the first parameter. And I believe it's faster.
 
@Drise Why aren't you using floats in the first place?
 
The Cat said it's useful to have a separate operator -- not that being required to cast is comfortable.
Doesn't matter if that operator is / or div or whatever -- that's syntax.
 
value : int
This property holds the slider's current value.

The slider forces the value to be within the legal range: minimum <= value <= maximum.

Changing the value also changes the sliderPosition.

Access functions:

int	value () const
void	setValue ( int )
 
6:07 PM
@Drise why are your inputs int when your output is float?
 
Qt Slider
I want value / max to get the transparency %
 
@Drise why would floats be involved?
@Drise ah
 
@MooingDuck One library gives ints, the other takes double
 
Which squirrel died in Germany?
 
@IDWMaster That brown one.
 
@Drise Making floating point division the default wouldn't solve that issue.
It only solves this particular instance you're facing.
The other library taking a double is not relevant because ints are convertible to double.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes When I want an rgb value, I have to give it as a 0 to 1 float, so I have to divide all my ints by 255.0
 
What matters is that you want floating point division.
 
@MooingDuck .au site reporting about an article in der Spiegel, nice :)
 
I just find integer division as default to be irksome.
 
6:10 PM
I say that's observational bias.
 
@Drise it makes more sense than the other. You get used to it
 
@MooingDuck They have nothing better to report on than police freeing a squirrel getting it's head stuck?
 
It's not something that happens everyday.
 
@Drise You think that just because fascinating things are happening that they shouldn't report on a squirrel in addition?
 
who knows boost::asio?
 
6:13 PM
@MooingDuck Idk. Seemed trivial.
 
@KeithLayne David Abrahams.
 
@StackedCrooked While it's not wrong to say the least, there are so many factors that it's just as good as a load of BS.
 
I see.
 
@StackedCrooked wise guy, eh?
 
Pro tip: if you want to debug some test, make sure said test is not set to not run.
 
6:14 PM
@KeithLayne It was an educated guess.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Bookmarked!
 
Division taking "only" 5 times longer than addition is definitely BS.
 
@StackedCrooked Go watch your anime! :)
 
@KeithLayne I have no Internet :( I'm currently only using my phone's 3G connection.
 
Well, I'm writing Java, so I don't know who's worse off.
 
Tomorrow a technician from the phone company will come to active my DSL connection. Hopefully everything will go smoothly.
 
6:17 PM
Oh wait, it's me.
 
@KeithLayne What are you doing?
 
@StackedCrooked DSL? What, is this 2003?
 
@Drise Where I live cable internet is not possible, nor fiber.
 
@StackedCrooked That blows some serious cock.
 
oh that must suck
 
6:18 PM
Make up your minds. Blow or suck?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes This lab work. Graph visualization/data mining/writing wizards in NetBeans/messing with Excel files.
 
lol
 
Oh, ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
 
I hope the new VDSL2 modems are as good as advertised. I should get 30 Mbps.
 
b cannot point to a anyway! It's just impossible. Try it. — R. Martinho Fernandes 2 mins ago
Funny
 
6:19 PM
@StackedCrooked 30 isnt bad.
 
Why is it funny?
 
I think my cable is limited at 20 - 25
 
@StackedCrooked That's better than I get. Stop complaining.
 
I peak at 2.1 MBps
 
6:20 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought it was, maybe it's just me
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I haven't tried it yet. That's what's being advertised.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He was never complaining...
 
@StackedCrooked It's still better than what I get advertised.
@Drise It was a pre-emptive no-complaints notice.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fair enough
 
I'm gonna have Bacon, you guys better be jealous! :P
 
6:21 PM
I'm gonna have chili.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, currently I'm using 500 MB packs for 15 EUR using my phone's 3G connection. So right now I still have the right to complain.
 
oh nice :)
so you can only chat on here then?
 
I've already used 6 GB and haven't gotten the bill yet.
 
oh god
sounds expensive
 
@StackedCrooked ouch. I'm capped at 4 on 4g
 
6:22 PM
@StackedCrooked Once you get the bill, burn it.
 
Correction, it's 14.6 GB.
 
OMFG
 
Just checked.
 
Ouch
 
holy shit
 
6:23 PM
SOME_LIST is an array, not a pointer, so there is only one level of constness to worry about. — FredOverflow 8 secs ago
 
My 4g is supposed to be "unlimited". I got in early. I don't trust it though.
 
@KeithLayne They start cutting you down after 2gb
 
who do you have? I'm on T-Mobile.
 
My 3G was also unlimited.
But after 2GB I got 128kpbs.
 
With paid values, like my 4gb, I get full speeds.
@KeithLayne Verizon, but still. It's all the same game they play
 
6:24 PM
I know it's a big issue, and the companies have been welching on the "unlimited" thing.
 
@Drise Doesn't Verizon charge for going over though? TMobile just dials your speed back
 
@KeithLayne I thought verizon's share everything plan was ok.
@Prætorian Every gig is 10$. If you upgrade your plan, you get 2 gigs for 10$
 
I try not to think about where my money is going for these things.
 
I have 200 MB "unlimited", and it costs only 10$. Yay, TMobile
 
@KeithLayne Same here...
 
6:25 PM
clearly :P
 
@Prætorian Unlimited 200 MB? Sounds awesome!
 
0
Q: VB.Net using C DLL

Big EndianWhat is the best way to put a DLL written in C into a VB.NET (Express Edition 2010) project? I have the declarations for the external functions locating absolute paths right now like so: C:\Users\Kyle\Documents\Pelles C Projects\ROBOLIB\ROBOLIB.dll Because Visual Basic creates so many different...

Oh gawd...
 
@StackedCrooked Doesn't it? I don't think they have that plan anymore
 
Reminds me of the fish and bread Jesus story.
 
Are std::thread and friends pretty well-supported by compilers by now, or is it still better to use boost for now?
 
6:28 PM
Unlimited 200 MB partitioned by Jesus results in infinite volume.
 
It actually works out great if you're someone that's always within vicinity of a wifi network
 
Jesus could turn IPv4 to IPv6 with some left over.
 
@KeithLayne
 
@KeithLayne They basically wrap the system facilities. So I don't see how they could be "unready".
 
@Drise Y U CONFUZE ME WITH NOT-WELL-RECEIVED TAGS?
well.....that's what I figured, but I didn't know what was up.
 
6:30 PM
-5
Q: Addition [tag:no-boost]

DriseFor those who can't use boost, there should be a tag that exists to simplify specifying that boost is not an option for an answer. I understand that SO answers are meant to be as a resource for many, but it is fairly obnoxious to have to specify that boost is not an option. I also feels it clutte...

 
I somehow have never really done threading in c++.
 
It wasn't well received.
 
@Drise Lol
 
@KeithLayne It's not very straight forward, compared to things like .Net
 
Has anyone read the "Concurrency in Action" book? It's on my todo list, if it doesn't suck.
 
6:31 PM
@Drise As expected.
 
The boost hivemind is too strong
 
It's painful talking to these Java/C# people who do everything with threads. I once suggested that async I/O could be better then a bajillion-thread approach and I was laughed at.
 
Anyone ever try the Intel Thread Building Blocks stuff? threadingbuildingblocks.org
 
Sometimes one is better than the other.
@Tocs @DeadMG knows all about it.
 
@Tocs I remember hearing about that, and it sounded pretty sweet. Forgot about it though.
 
6:35 PM
@Tocs You should ask him about it, he's really friendly towards newbies.
 
you just made me snort milk out my nose.
 
sigh after all my hardwork I'm still a newbie
 
@KeithLayne Eeuw.
@Tocs Everyone is a newbie at something.
 
stop being funny then.
 
21
A: Why is there a limit on edit reputation reward?

Ian RingroseFour legsEdits good, two legsanswers better

 
6:36 PM
someone is a newbie at everything.
 
@KeithLayne newborn babes
 
@KeithLayne I didn't read...
@StackedCrooked They can breathe... That's non-trivial.
 
my first son failed at that out of the box.
 
@Drise They're still newbies at it.
@KeithLayne He survived I hope?
 
yeah, he's awesome.
 
6:40 PM
Phew, I was first going to reply "And that's why you got a second son?", but I deemed it inappropriate without knowing how the story ended..
 
all's well that ends well, I say.
@StackedCrooked but that would be par for this room.
 
OMG I HATE .ibibytes
for those who know regex
0
A: Valid arguments for parted

JLledoI think you've made a couple of interesting questions right here, what a pity nobody has answered them before, so I'll try to do it. It's not clear if the first partition start should be 1 or 0? The first partition start must be 1, because the first bytes of a disk contain the Master Boot...

 
@Drise What?
 
@FredOverflow I hate the Mibibytes, gibibytes etc crap
 
Oh I like it, helps disambiguate.
 
6:45 PM
A megabyte is 1024 kilobytes which is 1024 bytes.
 
New Zealanders have kiwibytes!
 
@FredOverflow The only reason there is an ambiguity is because stupid people try to learn technical things and think it's too complicated. So they "simplify" it and just round down to 1000 bytes.
 
No, mega has always meant 10^6 = 1000000.
 
@FredOverflow This is computing. We speak in base 2
 
@Drise @FredOverflow is right.
 
6:49 PM
@StackedCrooked I beg to differ.
 
Mega- (symbol M) is an prefix in the metric system denoting a factor of million (106 or ). Confirmed in 1960, it comes from the Greek μέγας, meaning great. Other common examples of usage * megapixel - 1 million pixels in a digital camera * one megatonne (of TNT) (a unit often used in measuring the explosive power of nuclear weapons) is the approximate energy released on igniting one million tonnes of TNT. * megahertz — frequency of electromagnetic radiation for radio and television broadcasting, GSM, etc. 1 MHz = 1,000,000 Hz. Exponentiation When units occur in exponentiation, such ...
 
Drise, Mega is powers of 10. Mibi, kibi, etc is powers of 2
It's that simple.
No need for haet
 
no one on mumble?
 
-1 for efficantDrise 46 secs ago
Am I being too mean?
I feel I am, but he also deserved that.
@Prætorian I see your wiki and raise you another
The JEDEC memory standards are the specifications for semiconductor memory circuits and similar storage devices promulgated by the JEDEC Solid State Technology Association, a semiconductor trade and engineering standardization organization. JEDEC Standard 100B.01 specifies common terms, units, and other definitions in use in the semiconductor industry. JESC21-C specifies semiconductor memories from the 256 bit static RAM to the latest DDR3 SDRAM modules. In August 2011, JEDEC announced that its DDR4 standard is expected to be published in mid-2012. JEDEC standardization goals JEDEC c...
> mega (M): A multiplier equal to 1048576 (2^20 or K^2, where K = 1024).
 
@Drise But the one I posted predates this one
 
7:02 PM
So it's a predate-or?
 
The only people that cared for 1024/1000 distinction in mega prefix were HDD manufacturers.
3
And then very smart people figured out they'd invent a new unit system, and now half of people doesn't use it and other half is confused.
In hindsight it wasn't very smart.
 
When I was your age, a megabyte was measured in powers of 2.
 
Just like Pluto being a planet.
 
@CatPlusPlus What wasn't very smart was using powers of 10 in the first place. The number of fingers we happen to have isn't much of a basis for the system we use for most measurements.
 
7:16 PM
If you divide something in base X by X, do you just lop off the end like you do in base 10 when dividing by 10?
 
@Drise Really.
What does the bit shift operator do?
 
Lops off the end...
 
I thought kids were supposed to learn the New Math these days.
Different base systems and all that.
 
@ecatmur I'm 20... We only got taught base 10, and not really well.
 
7:20 PM
So is 10011011 / 2 == 1001101 R 1?
 
you mean / 10?
 
(Its base 2)
 
Oh, C++ and Beyond 2012 is running since yesterday. Really looking forward to the videos!
 
There gonna be videos?
I don't think there were last year.
 
I think some are gonna be filmed for Channel9, but not all of them.
@StackedCrooked Are you sure? I see 5 relevant videos. 4 of them are also posted here.
 
7:25 PM
Ok.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Are you still going to post your solution for the get_shared question from Code Review?
 
Hey that's how I was taught math, I liked that approach.
 
7:40 PM
Charles XII also Carl of Sweden, , Latinized to Carolus Rex, Turkish: Demirbaş Şarl (which means Charles the Habitué or Charles the Fixture) (17 June 1682 – 30 November 1718) was the King of the Swedish Empire from 1697 to 1718. Charles was the only surviving son of King Charles XI of Sweden and Ulrika Eleonora the Elder, he assumed power after a seven-month caretaker government at the age of fifteen. In 1700, a triple alliance of Denmark–Norway, Saxony–Poland–Lithuania and Russia launched a threefold attack on the Swedish protectorate of Swedish Holstein-Gottorp and provinces of Livoni...
^ Nobody wanted anything to do with the king's "octal" numeral system.
" he considered [octal] more suitable for war purposes because all the boxes used for materials such as gunpowder were cubic"
 
sbi
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Or was it because few soldiers had ten fingers left after the battle?
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf ...and their failure to recognize its superiority truly was a failure.
 
Probably a defect in my company's software, Fred. There's lots of them.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf You can invent different base numbering systems?
 
7:55 PM
Ok, so I was taught to do new math...
@FredOverflow I told you, complain.
 
One line to break them all.
I hate those kind of bugs.
 

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