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03:59
@Mikhail They're already for sale!
Very cheap as well. But the speed is shit.
So it looks like I might be able to run 128GB on my planned September Zen 2 build.
 
4 hours later…
07:44
Lol, why the heck is this stuff more expensive than server ram?
 
4 hours later…
12:06
Do cults fit under the umbrella of religion when people talk about religious freedom? Cult members tend to be a lot more devoted than most people.
12:56
I have a great idea ... I think ... what if we send a small group of apex criminals to Mars and if they could survive there for 1-3 years (depends on their sentences ), they will be granted freedom after serving their reduced sentences on that planet. They will be given supply, but they also need to use those supply to create habitat and generate food in order to survive the length of their sentence.
Billionaire drug lord "El Chapo" Guzman, UC Berkeley professor(Ted Kaczynski, the unabomber), al-Qaeda operative and 9/11 conspirator are good candidates. Maybe chuck in Martin Shkreli & Elizabeth Holmes (if convicted). This would be a great reality show :p
@Mysticial preliminary parts list for next pc: ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Borgleader/saved/#view=BYgD23
still gotta like, check out noise levels, maybe LED stuff but in terms of price and power its about that
@Borgleader Why M.2 and not NVM.e?
uh... cuz i fucked up xD
i was just like, non SATA SSD GO
@Borgleader whelp you kind messed that up ;p
I'm just not sure I wanna pay the Samsung tax
All their SSDs seem to be more expensive than others
and idk if I need the extra bit of performance (if any) they'll have
13:01
@Borgleader and faster, and more reliable...
faster sure, but like if i wont notice idc
more reliable is the issue
@Borgleader tbf WD isn't that much behind you'd probably notice
not unless you were actively using it as a primary active swap or something
bigger issue is m.2 vs NVM.e
 
2 hours later…
14:49
@Borgleader Check out the Phison controller SSDs. Examples: Corsair MP510 and Silicon Power.
o.O wth theyre 41% off rn
(the 960GB one anyway)
@Borgleader That's CAD right? Because they're about an order of magnitude higher than they should be. :)
Yes CAD
mITX in a mid-tower case?
the case is not final i just wanted something in that price range for the build.
it looks nice but I'm not 100% I'll go with that one
I want something quiet and mostly black
15:00
I meant like size matching.
Usually you pick the case that fits the mobo.
Otherwise, you're just wasting space.
I see
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/Hfw323/corsair-case-600tsilver
I currently have this which is midatx
so I'll probably go with that size again
Or you if you have a case already, you pick the largest mobo that fits in the case.
Oh, no what I meant is, my current PC is in that case. And thats the size I'm looking for.
Any bigger would hardly fit under my desk, and smaller would probably be annoying to build in.
Wait, you already have a mITX mobo in a large case?
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Borgleader/saved/#view=zpMgLk
I have this.

My next build is looking to be AMD Ryzen based (probably 3800X unless I have any reason to go for the 12 core but probably not, I'm thinking maybe in 2-3 years I upgrade since AMD doesnt change sockets all the time). As for GPU I'll get one of them new Nvidia Super ones (probably 2070). And I'm looking to build in a Mid ATX tower case for the reasons stated above.
15:08
@Borgleader see the GN videos
the 12 core clocks itself higher
that said that chip is probably fine?
The boost clock is higher, but base is lower, also its 100$ extra + tx
you should REALLY watch the GN videos
base clock is meaningless with Ryzen 3
I'm just griping at why you would put such a small mobo in such a large case. You can get better mobos for the same price if you go larger.
Gamers Nexus
as to some extent is boost clock because of Precision boost 2
15:10
It was my first build is why :P
Also the mobo was p cheap at the time IIRC
(I was still in school and didnt have a ton of money lying around)
15:22
I dont build a pc a year like you do ;)
Half surprised Mystical's builds aren't sponsored yet, and that he doesn't do benchmark livestreams
@Mgetz Why would they? They're not real gaming machines.
And they aren't flashy or original enough.
@Mysticial penis sizing contests?
the usual reason
But they measure dick-size in the GPU and the custom water cooling eye candy. None of my builds are good in those.
15:46
@Borgleader also the follow up on scaling and thermals from their LN2 session
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g94rNe4XSGU
This one?
yes
16:42
that guy talks fast
like, stl is the sloth from zootopia next to him
@Borgleader He feels like one of the guys who has so much content that he has to squeeze then as opposed to other channels who are trying to make up content.
Oh sure, I'm just not used to that
@Mysticial They are known for being very technical
Which is good
I'd never heard about them but they seem to be in the same breed as rtings
but for PC things
(rtings does TVs, Monitors, Headsets)
TL;DR: either by the 3600X or the 3900X don't bother with that chip
17:39
@Mgetz Ok, I watched the review, I'll probably go with 3900X
up to you, depends on what you're doing with it. The 3900X is a good development machine CPU but is a bit much for a gaming rig
I'll be doing both of those things
18:14
The one tiny thing I'm disappointed about is no iGPU. I don't need a good one, just enough so I could experiment with offloading some computation to it.
But it's really not a deal breaker
18:35
@Borgleader It's a fair bet that they'll do a Zen 2 APU at some point. The big question is exactly how soon. Oh, there's also a decent chance that the APU will initially be sold only to HP, DELL, etc., for low-end integrated PCs. So, it could easily a year or so before you can by one directly.
@JerryCoffin Yeah, I'm not going to hold my breath.
Maybe the next CPU after that I'll look into it.
Like I said it's only a minor thing because I can always do that on my laptop if I need to (it has a discrete GPU and an integrated one)
It's just inconvenient to do it there because it's an older and lower power machine.
19:30
Is it just me, or does trying to download the VS2019 preview install error?
Not just the preview, but the release one as well. lol
I guess even MS agrees that we shouldn't use their shit. :)
I have VS2019 installed on my laptop so... just you?
I'm trying to download the installer.
As in, I'm trying to test the latest preview.
But I guess that's not happening today.
Given how common it is for them to introduce blocking compiler bugs and their longass turn-around times, I really need to test every single fucking preview they release.
posted on July 20, 2019 by Herb Sutter

Obligatory comment: The C++20 Eagle has wings. At noon today, July 20 2019, the ISO C++ committee completed its summer meeting in Cologne, Germany, hosted with thanks by Think-Cell, SIGS Datacom, SimuNova, Silexica, Meeting C++, Josuttis Eckstein, Xara, Volker Dörr, Mike Spertus, and the Standard C++ Foundation. As usual, we met for six days Monday … Continue reading Trip report: Summer I

19:40
I also hate the VS 2017 and VS 2019 have two different installers. MS should have a MS product package manager for all their dev tools. Right now they appear to be maintaining multiple installers, each of which has a 50% chance of fucking over your system.
@Mikhail What I hate even more is how they IoT'ed VS. A fucking compiler doesn't the fucking internet.
Oh, you mean the mysterious internet communication that the compiler performs?
Did we ever figure out what it was doing?
I can firewall it without breaking it. But the fact that's it wants the internet in the first place is a big WTF.
@Mikhail no
At least it has to do the log-in activation and the stupid news sidebar.
19:44
Are they still throwing in that performance gather/metrology thing into every exe?
@Mikhail wut?
Also UIUC mentioned in a web comic from a decade ago
19:58
@Mikhail anyone actually ask the compiler devs?
So, the IDE is outsourced to India
I put a bounty on this question: stackoverflow.com/questions/57084975/…
My question is who's using a four core Xeon.... that seems a waste
this is sweet. It sux that the dimensions have to be compile-time constants.
https://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/c5e253b04ccd80ae
if you go that route, use eigen
20:21
@Mgetz Maybe pure I/O servers?
@Mysticial Check the clocks, that thing's clocked pretty high for a pure IO server
also the price seems high for that, why not get a cheaper socket
@Mgetz Right, but when you have fewer cores, you can clock them higher.
@Mgetz There's no other Intel socket of that gen that has that many PCIe lanes.
ah
I use low end xeons for my high throughput camera builds. Dual socket chips are $~250, and I need the PCIe lanes.
@Mgetz The correct answer is to go AMD. But Intel doesn't want you do to that. :)
20:29
@Mysticial well no shit, but I suspect that's going to get a lot more common. I'm waiting for AMD to basically go to FSI and say "HEEEY, ya want binned chips?"
20:51
@Mgetz And yet they're charging $7 grand for that. lol
@Mysticial and yet you can basically get made to order chips from them for a lot cheaper
128 PCI-e lanes on a 4.0 Ghz core?
yeeeep
21:03
So, I run out of PCIe lanes because I build computers for high throughput 4D image processing, why do you guys care about PCIe lanes?
I don't, I work on cloud stuff
at least not more than I care for my main desktop to have enough lanes
Somehow I feel normal people would want to trade PCIe lanes for speed.
Oh, I thought you did mobile. What kind of cloud stuff do you do?
@Mikhail I've done both, but the mobile practice folded up. Right now I'm devops
C++ gave you too much PTSD :-)
MSVC ICE of the day:
1>Error HRESULT E_FAIL has been returned from a call to a COM component.
1>Error: Error HRESULT E_FAIL has been returned from a call to a COM component.
No, oddly C++ has never been my primary responsibility at work
I've had days when I did everything from C++ to javascript
21:17
So, updated minor MSVC 2017 version by one unit. Code no longer compiles. FML.
@Mikhail what'd you break?
@Mikhail That's why I sandbox all changes.
It broke some tiny shim dll that relies on COM
@Mysticial how
Okay, so I retargetted the SDK version (to the same version), which seemed to have fixed the problem.
21:23
May 5 at 8:11, by Mysticial
user image
Pick an SSD, wipe it. Install OS + whatever VS version I want.
Oh
That's quite thorough
Can probably be done cheaper with VMs.
@Mgetz I have three boxes with 4-core Xeonss. But I have that primarily because they were really cheap when my former employer was shutting down. They had them, because Dell used them in their low-end workstations.
@Rick They don't have to be. They are in that code mostly because it's ancient. Use a vector for the underlying storage, and you can dimension at run time.
@Mysticial Is it worth spending more money on RAM (for perf reasons)? And if so how much? I imagine there's a sweet spot. Also, I'm thinking I'd like to have 32GB in my next build (and leave space for another 32GB down the line because most likely 2-3 years from now Chrome will need it)
@Borgleader I'm most likely the wrong person to ask since I always completely max it out unless it's too expensive.
Back in the HD days, I definitely recommended a shit-load of ram for caching purposes.
But now in the SSD days, it's a tougher call.
21:49
Oh hey! They now sell fan grills with RGB.
@Mysticial really!?
@Mysticial but why...
@Mgetz why not?
@Mysticial are you building a computer or a philipino karaoke bar?
21:58
lol
not saying it's a bad aesthetic... but the music is a bit garish
That carpet seems to have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way
22:17
@Mysticial but seriously... I'm waiting for you to build a machine that beats the LTT disco RGB puke one
@Mgetz Not gonna beat it for my Zen 2 build since there's no flashy X570 mATX.
Because Corsair just launched the 32 GB dimms, the ram situation is dicey at this point since I'm unsure what 32 GB dimms will be available come September and if any of them will be RGB.
And also whether that one and only X570 mATX mobo will work with 32GB DIMMs.
22:35
@Mysticial I'm going to guess they won't be, and the timings will be crap. As corsair figures out the 32gb layout it will get better
Colorado: Rain dumps like a bucket, then 10 minutes later the concrete is dry
@Mgetz Exact same thing just happened here in Chicago. It poured enough to make all the spiders go crazy. Now it's dry.
@Mysticial you get spiders that high up?
Google, "Chicago high rise spider".
I suppose it makes sense, they feed on flying insects
Which love city lights.
Either they manage to hide and survive the winters or they grow VERY fast once they've flown onto the buildings.
22:41
@Mysticial well they lived there before humans did
how can Chicago have an excessive heat warning yet it's 77 and raining
pretty sure they're adapted
@Rick same way denver could? If it's a dry (relative humidity) day then the rain will drop the temp... so for example here it was almost 90... then it rained and the temp dropped to 70
@Mgetz They couldn't have lived on the high-rises before humans did. But high-rises are an even better habitat than their natural one.
@Mysticial trees
Since city lights attract their prey right to them.
22:43
almost all the midwest was forest prior to human habitation
pretty much everything east of the Mississippi in fact
@Mgetz I wish there were more forestes and more protected government lands.
@Rick blame the farmers
because this is now:
you should see all the effing signs they put up on the 5 freeway to sanfran begging for someone to fix the water problem they created.
most of the shit they grow are sold overseas, like almonds
@Rick tell it to texas or colorado. farmers here don't use flood irrigation anymore
too expensive
And I just pwned a spider that wandered onto my balcony.
22:54
I think there should an active effort by the government to reforest the country
@Rick pretty much impossible now
forests are ecosystems, you can't just plant trees and pray
you have to extend an existing forest
well, automation got us here it should get us out. Maybe genetically engineering trees or something. Because this is really a national security risk in my humble opinion .
@Rick bad idea, and no it isn't
let nature do the selection
@Mgetz and if it selects deserts over forestes, that's a selection you would be happy with
23:09
@Rick I don't get a choice? Climate will do what climate will do. I can do my part to not make it worse
In general I take a very humble approach to mankind's ability to control our envrionment and an expansive view on our ability to affect it
@Mgetz so you think the fact that china planted 1 billion trees to prevent deforestation was a waste of effort.
@Rick I think it was largely a political project overshadowed by other environmental damage they are doing
most of those trees will die
if they are not dead already
Remember that china does a lot of things for the photo opp
I don't know, I feel there might be more philosophy than facts here.
If people couldn't change their environment we would still be living in caves.
@Rick there is a difference between affecting the environment and controlling it
23:32
It seems like you are conflating deforestation with the environment as a whole. I'm am just talking about deforestation. This is a problem where we have control and it's something we can solve.
@Rick no I'm making a point that mankind usually thinks it's master of the environment, and 99% of the time... we're wrong
either way I'm out
peace, don't deforest!
leave something for future generations, as your parents did for you.
Yo, is there some trick to pass a member function to something that takes an std::function? Wrapping it in a lambda feels dirty.
yeah pass it as a pointer
i think think std::bind will bind them together but that also feels fugly.
23:42
Use more references, use less naked pointers.
<https://9gag.com/gag/av8YXxZ> ~@Mysticial
@Borgleader FU
23:59
@Mysticial What, I just found ~Mysticial

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