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04:04
@JerryCoffin That line haunt's my nightmares.
 
5 hours later…
08:39
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix For most apps the only real unloadable item, are rendering. Most importantly your proposal is kind a boring, it resembles the aritechture of lost apps. Also electron.
 
2 hours later…
11:06
wandbox.org/permlink/xEYmkB8S9vEYGGTI wondering why it is not crashing even when line 21 is commented?
undefined behavior, foo doesn't use any data of this so it getting called with a null this happens to not fail
Boy!
makes sense.
this is a vb.net question but can anyone think of a working equivalent of this?
If Not table.Rows(table.Rows.Count - varvariable).GetType = GetType(DataRow) Then
basically i can't check if row 2 exists because i get an error that row 2 doesn't exist KEK
varvariable is 0 if the row count is zero, or 1 if it's greater than 0
which i cant understand because it literally takes the rowcount - 1, so i don't get why it's ever out of index.
 
2 hours later…
13:16
Anyone else find this suspicious? Smugglers, 3:45am, no one is going yet. Smugglers bush walking much? :p
14:10
drug lord has $12.7 billion fortune, so world's richest man's networth = 10 x this drug dealer?
omg
wtf
33?
Also if criminals work hard enough, they might live in the same place housing some of the most famous people in the world - like ex-billionaire (drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman), ex-professor at the University of California, Berkeley (Ted Kaczynski, the unabomber), the Oklahoma City bomber & al-Qaeda operative and 9/11 conspirator ... at supermax prison in Colorado.
@TelKitty ADX Florence... the only penitentiary that standard has national guard troops "parked" near by
not even correct to call it a penitentiary really, it's an oubliette
Oo, troops, I was thinking more along the lines of bears and mountain lions. Guess not enough escaped prisoners to boost their population. :x
@TelKitty well the altitude helps too, the prison is at a higher altitude and there aren't any trees
14:41
@Mgetz Looks more like a resort from aerial view, of course you can not judge a prison by its cover.
@Mysticial they really must not have had any fire suppression
@Mgetz That's my first thought too.
I love how despite how little I do post here, I'm still considered (by the SO algorithms) to be one of the most active
It's all comparative. To get off that list you need to coerce a bunch of people to post a lot more. Or you can try to hack and make this chat disappear, which would be as equally hard.
14:58
@TelKitty your resorts are deliberately deforested? and have nets over courtyards?
@thecoshman it's been fairly dead
 
1 hour later…
16:06
Lol, I'm always amused by people that wonder why Banks and Such use Mainframes and FAANGS don't
there is a very good reason and it's not just COBOL
Facebook and Amazon wish they had the uptime that Amex has
mods wanted this place dead, so it's dead vOv
 
1 hour later…
17:16
Then again, Monty Python also provides the perfect sketch for the opposite conclusion:
 
2 hours later…
18:48
hey guys a question. i am going to start quit a big project and wanna introduce my self to c++. I have over 8 years of experience with java and want to know if there are some basic frameworks i need to know, like Java Guave or the dependency managment tool maven, but for c++
are there some nice math toolkits?
@Olgidos There are, but I wouldn't recommend C++ for what you're doing unless you REALLY want to know it.
@Mgetz i REALLY want to know it!
@fredoverflow classic
19:03
@Olgidos Consider Eigen then
19:42
@fredoverflow isnt that what most people do?
c++ is like a hi maintenance girlfriend/boyfriend.
Consumed By Appearance: templates! templates! templates!
Too Needy and never takes out the garbage.
Mother/compiler dictates every move, so don't expect anything to be defined.
Always Plays the Victim, an array it's what you think it is.
Can't Get Over Minor out of bound errors.
Doesn't Stop Complaining about every little thing.
Selfishly Uses other languages like C.
But most importantly it can't say "I'm Sorry"
my hope is, that compared to python or jscript, java is at least a little bit as strict as c++. and i do actualy like it, not like this alternative hippy languages
strict lol more like unpredictable.
Writing Java takes almost as long as C++ with the only advantage being faster on boarding for low IQ devs.
if you like the strict type system of sadomasochistic languages you should learn GO.
19:57
@Rick nah that's just your C++
Also Java was the original "lol no generics" language
i mean there are generics in java^^
but i realy looking forward to wrap my head around some new unpredictable language problems .. its never frustrating
@Olgidos There are now, but originally they claimed its lack of generics was a big advantage. Then again, originally, they claimed that interpreting byte codes (instead of JIT compiling) was a big advantage as well.
@Mgetz that's because you're whipped. ;-)
but honestly, when i look at java code, it looks for me like the most classic and beautiful out of all =P
@Olgidos have you ever considered learning INTERCAL.
@Rick That's some funky use of capital letters you got there
@EtiennedeMartel inappropriate capitalization is part of the English language now.
20:39
I have a map data structure that I pass to a function (which lives in a different file). It seems that even by simply calling this function, a value in the map object changes to 32767. Has anyone seen anything like this before?
20:51
what are you using for keys
@Rick what's wrong with GO?
I think the issue is that I am passing a pointer to a pointer for every single structure that I’m using. For exam dataple, the functions for initializing, adding to and getting from a map all accept the map structure as a double pointer. I initialize it simple as “(*map) = calloc(1, sizeof(Map))”
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix it has a strongly enforced and explicit type system. It is Just a paradigm that can get tedious, nothing wrong with it, in and of itself.
The keys are integers, by the way
21:07
@DemCodeLines Double pointers always make me uncomfortable.
@EtiennedeMartel I don’t necessarily like them, but my pattern so far has been to create an object (i.e Map *myMap), send it’s address to a function that is supposed to initialize all the members of the struct (i.e. create(&myMap)), then use it.
However it looks like this strategy isn’t working because I’m getting weird results where passing this address to a function somehow changes the vector structure inside it
why don't your structs have a constructor that initializes everything, that might be where your bug might be
I guess I should also mention that this is in C
struct initialization is the source of a lot of errors.
@Rick you mean it can't infer types?
21:18
I have functions that accept the map struct and malloc for them
21:29
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix it does some superficial inferring but its conventions are for the most part rigged.
21:48
Most static analysis tools catch struct initialization problems. You should be using one.
Any recommendations for one?
I like ReSharper because it integrates well into MSVC, also the pricing is pretty good. Academic users can get it for free.
Resharper let you know that you have not initialized your variable types
I’m using gcc right now and already have -Wall, but still seeing these issues.
21:52
Go with CLion
Oh I have to buy it
You're not going to upgrade your game if you keep writing shit code. The static analysis tools are somewhat a substitute for code review.
@Mikhail Two wrongs make a right. So if you write shit code, write more shit code to cancel it out.
Pretty sure that only works for signed types
I don't know, my game is getting pretty sharp without tools like that.
22:03
you don't know what you don't know
but I actively probe and ask questions most find trivial or pedantic, I want to know the details. Most people just want to know enough to get by.
That tool might be good for them. But It wouldn't really help me.
I don't think you understand what these tools do. I would encourage you to try some of them.
@Mikhail Resharper is the business
A few years ago I managed to get a good deal, they had a 50% off promotion thing going
JetBrains always has 50% off deals.
I always wanted to use Coverity but as a hustler, never had enough money :-(
Perhaps Jerry can buy me a copy
22:16
Visual Studio already seems like it spoils developers, and it's free.
What does coverity do that clang's static analyzer wont do (for free)?
I don't know, I have never used Coverity.
So apparently the best way to get Intel and AMD fanboys to all converge in one place and fight each other is to pick one, and start a forum thread trying to justify it.
I knew about the AMD fanboys but I didn't know there were Intel fanboys.
@Rick There are plenty of them.
22:30
I'm sorry I can't hear you over the sound of my dual socket 72 core Intel machine
@Mysticial I'm sure that applies to many other things
AMD vs Nvidia, Windows vs Mac, ...
Jan 11 '17 at 21:37, by Mikhail
@Mysticial I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my two E5-4559v3 rubbing against my chest hair.
@Mikhail I think you just root for the side that wins or that is currently stronger.
@Mysticial I still have them, because I wasn't sure if they'd work in a dual socket system, and sure as hell wasn't going to spend my precious JBOD money on two CPUs
22:33
Dam this shit is for real!
@Mikhail This being the Jerry whose newest computer is a Haswell, and wouldn't even have anything that new, except that he got it almost for free when his former employer shut down?
SO says you have over 395k
@Rick The OC.net thread?
@Mikhail When did you start believing SO?
yeah
22:38
^ Perfect load balancing, something you AMD plebs will never understand :-)
@Mikhail So that's your chest hair? It looks pretty underutilized.
I don't have any more chest hair after what happened...
As I said, I have a bunch of quad socket chips lying around that I'm too scared to power on
@Mikhail Because they might rip off your chest hair?
I can live with that, the cost to power them on
I can literally have a CRO do a complete research paper for the cost of power on the chips I already own.
But also Intel Master Race
unfortunately, they are pretty civil for the most part. Which makes it less entertaining.
22:46
@Rick The moderation is very strict on that forum.
From what I've heard (and I'm less familiar with OC.net), the over-moderation has led to a decline of the site.
Looks like gamers talking about shit they don't know
Which draws strange parallels with SO even through the reasons are completely different.
SO is weird, because everybody knows that the rep whores and help vampires posters need an outlet. I don't know anybody who opposes these groups.
@Mikhail So I doubt anybody here has noticed yet, but I recently for into a heated argument with a moderator on a topic related to this.
Long story short, I made an accusation on meta. A mod called me out for it on the grounds of being baseless and taking things out of context. I took the mod to chat to present the evidence.
Basically a shit storm. I'm still waiting for his rebuttals of my arguments.
Yeah, so maybe the people whose hobby is to organize stack overflow want it to be more organized :-)
Then the SO employees who are responsible for community engagement offer completely irrelevant comments that match American politics (Apparently, we don't have enough women of color, although we're not given enough points for having all the trans people, furries, weebs, and jerry)
22:53
@Mikhail A big part of the mod's counterargument can be summarized as, "we're not malicious, we're just incompetent".
Which is fair. So I accepted that argument.
But the real messed up thing here is that the SO organization needs the rep whores, help vampires etc to reach the growth targets the promised to investors. Their pitch deck is basically that all humans will code, therefore the market is all of humanity.
"Incompetent" is actually the wrong word here since I doubt they are actually incompetent. But they really don't have their shit together - which has the same effect.
@Mysticial Usually the argument is that SO is a special place, that has higher standards.
I think the main danger to SO is the rise of technical communities outside the single portal model. I think issues around moderation is symptomatic, not systemic.
22:56
Ugg I can't read this
I need to shit out code
peace
@Rick Make sure you start reading from the beginning. The transcript is long enough to have already scrolled off the beginning.
So you believe the best option is to split the site. Your more focused on cleaning things up and focusing it on key objectives, answer serious questions.
@Rick Given the alternatives, I'm siding with Jeff Atwood here. The only way to achieve both #1 and #2 is to split the site - one with each philosophy.
It worked for Mathematics and MathOverflow. There must be some way to make it work for SO.
I explain further down that a "hard" split might not be ideal. Perhaps a "soft" split is better. But those are just the details.
It works for them because those forums have a sophisticated user base that's well trained in academic peer review environments.
23:13
Btw, not sure if you're aware, but Jeff Atwood is one of the founders of SO. He left some years ago - that's why you don't see a diamond next to his name.
But he still occasionally pops up and provides commentary.
@Rick LOL academic peer review
@Mikhail I thought you're supposed to be shitting out code? :)
` auto result = thrust::transform_reduce(start, stop, unary_op, init, binary_op);
const auto variance = result.variance();
const auto min = result.min;
const auto max = result.max;
const auto mean = result.mean;
const auto samples = result.n;
return summary_stats(min, max, mean, variance, samples);`
shes compiling
@Mikhail the math section of SO is more or less run by academics
Both Mathematics and MathOverflow have poor engagement. They have helped with nothing except a troll question I asked. There are >7 billion people in the world. All of them need to do math. Why aren't 7 billion people on Mathematics/MathOverflow? Missed opportunities.
23:24
@Mikhail no bindings for the result type? shame
fuck you, I copy and pasted that off SO, and this is the laziest way to match my existing structures.'
@Mysticial Might be. This was tried (a number of times) on Usenet, with newsgroup foo.bar splitting into foo.bar and foo.bar.experts. In a few cases it worked reasonably well, but in reverse: with both options available, beginners inevitably decided to get clever and post their beginner questions to the .experts newsgroup. The experts quickly abandoned those, so it ended up with .experts being the beginners newsgroup, and all the experts hanging out on the non-experts one.
I mean, somebody killed this chat when the rooms were split
Sort of--but it mostly died as people migrated to Discord.
@Mikhail This room was declining long before the split anyway. But your point still holds. That's why I'm not sure a "hard" split is necessarily the right thing.
@JerryCoffin interesting...
23:32
Yeah, I definitely agree. As I said, the real tragedy is that almost everybody knows, and agrees with us.
Ultimately, I'd say the Lounge died primarily because we didn't have the tools to run it well. Split or not is mostly orthogonal, IMO.
@JerryCoffin I'm not sure it's entirely our fault. Sure we're a jackass at times, but that's also attractive to some people.
If we take a look, we mainly aren't getting new people.
While all the regulars left for other things. (like discord, or life - as in the case or Robot after he got married.)
So why did the inflow stop?
Where do we usually get people from? The main site? People there in C++ wander in here.
I gravitate toward discord some times
@Mysticial Robot still posts on Discord (or did the last time I noticed, anyway).
@JerryCoffin ah
If we were fucking things up, people would be wandering in here posting a little, and then leaving.
But I'm not noticing a lot of new people coming in here at all.
23:39
First problem was that people got "offended" at SO, thats their fault for being crybabies. Second problem is that we have little to offer except RGB lighting. We used to answer questions.
Could this be caused by the general decline of the main site? It's hard to disprove that atm.
I don't remember when and where, but Shog also posted a graph of chat activity which basically shows every room except for JS (IIRC) dying out in the past few years starting from around 2015.
@Mysticial I think the split is likely responsible for a lot of that. If people came to ask something about C++, and there were other interesting conversations going on, there was a much better chance they'd engage and end up staying. With them separated, they're a lot more likely to ask a question, get an answer, and then just leave.
lol JS room
@JerryCoffin Yeah, I think I agree.
But that can't be the only factor though.
It's the wrong kind of people.
The ones who post in the Q/A room are mostly newbies. The "classic" Lounge regulars are all what I could probably say are "experts" or at least "non-beginners".
I wandered into this room and stuck around because I saw @Xeo talking about Anime.
@Mysticial Probably not. I think decline in the main site contributes as well. Personally, I think the decline there is sort of similar. In the early days, a lot of only marginally topical questions were still interesting for the right kinds of people. Removing/stopping those leaves a lot less chance for interesting questions.
23:45
I came here because jerry was of the few people that could answer questions on DS, and provide like real answers like he knew details at a high level.
@Rick Probably wrong answers, but real nonetheless. :-) But wait a sec. What the heck is "DS"?
B-trees AVL red black
@JerryCoffin Hey, can you vote to close this question? stackoverflow.com/questions/2211277/…
you knew how a map worked under the hood.
@Rick Oh, data structures. Okay.
23:52
Others too. This room seems to have a higher volume of higher-level experts or people who attempt to answer questions seriously most would find pedantic or unimportant to know
@Mikhail Should probably downvote first, so we can get it to negative territory, and vote to delete it...
Nobody writes code like this in C++ anymore.
@Mikhail Of course they don't. The tools don't support it any more!

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