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Ell
Ell
01:00
vgmusic.com. as a midi (making it even more cool)
TND
TND
Because then I can use the fancy youtube downloader I coded with my amazing C++ skills today xD
Oh lol
(I suck at C++, just so you know)
lol i generally do python stuff (which is probly why c++ is such a learning curve lol).
@TND Everyone does. Especially the beginners.
Ell
Ell
@tnd obviously not as much as me if you can actually write something and finish it
TND
TND
lol, well I know programming itself
I know php, js, java, lua, and some others already
I just don't know C++, REALLY BADLY
Ell
Ell
01:02
so do I. still havrnt finished anything
TND
TND
Strings in C++ kill me
Ell
Ell
also, don't mention java in here, lest you be attacked by everyone
I still dont quite understand strings well in c++ :P
TND
TND
Why is there char* and string at the saem time?
...? strings are one of the semi-easy parts...lol
TND
TND
01:03
lol I don't like java
Ell
Ell
what's wrong with c++ string?
TND
TND
I always have to convert between strings and char arrays and stuff
Ell
Ell
just use string :L
don't use char arrays unless you have to
TND
TND
I can't when functions make me give them char arrays
char* exists mostly cause that's what C had...that, and there had to be some way of representing a raw sequence of characters to stuff like, say, the OS
TND
TND
01:04
Makes sense... What does the asterisk mean, really?
@TND Historical reasons.
Ell
Ell
if only the OS was written in c++
char * are C strings.
Ell
Ell
@tnd asterisk.means a pointer
@TND std::string s = "heh"; doStuffWith(s.c_str());
01:05
C++ is mostly backwards compatible with C, so of course it features it.
Ell
Ell
int* pointer_to_int;
TND
TND
Yeah, I knew that, but pointers and arrays are different! Arrays use pointers... what am I missing?
Why am I stupid xD
@TND An array implicitly decays to a pointer if you so much as look at it.
TND
TND
weird
I guess I'll figure this stuff out slowly
Ell
Ell
basically, use vector<> usually
01:06
no code in a library is going to require that you pass it an array....arrays can rarely even be passed directly on the stack. a char array degrades into a char* (pointing at the first element) when you try to pass it.
Protip: do not use pointers until you really know how things work.
Ell
Ell
its weird, array decay has always made sense to me from day one
TND
TND
I understand pointers, for the most part
so as far as the library cares, a char[] and a char* are exactly the same.
Im finding that im embedding alot of python stuff into my c++ code for convenience lol. I should probly stray away from that till i understand a bit more of c++ xD
Xeo
Xeo
01:07
@cHao Are we talking C or C++?
either one...if you pass a char[], it will turn into a pointer to the first element
@cHao That's natural, it has to decay.
TND
TND
By the way, the youtube downloader I made downloads webm
Because youtube 403s your requests for mp4 unless you have a specific user agent, I believe
And I'm fine with webm, but I want to figure out how to put ffmpeg into my program
How can I do that?
I don't want to have to have the imaginary user-other-than-me install ffmpeg before they can run it and have it work
are you able to embed python into your program? or are you only using c++?
TND
TND
I'm only using C++
01:12
kk nvm then lol
lol...embedding python to avoid c++
soz :P
i gotta say, if it weren't for the extra work involved... :)
user1182183
yoooo, any math freaks here wanting to help ? : P
TND
TND
I'm only in basic math like algebra
01:13
what type of math?
depends on the math.. :)
user1182183
well I have a problem with calculating XY positions,
user1182183
it's explained here:
TND
TND
I developed an applicable, but not advanced understanding of trig for my own use in programming, but that's it
user1182183
0
Q: Creating polygon from n lines with [w] width? (Calculating all positions)

Gam ErixSo I am working on a project where I need to create a polygon using given X and Y coordinates. The coordinates a given in logical order and create a path. Now I need to calculate all positions of a poligon, if the path width would be [w] (for example 20 meters). We all know lines have no width. ...

TND
TND
01:14
Is it really bad that I'm better than my teacher at school at programming? o_e she didn't know what ternary operators were
She like, pointed at the question mark and was like, you've got a problem with your program
user1182183
xD
TND
TND
I wanted to facepalm through my head
Lol i finished my "Web design" course in 3 days (the entire semester) with a 100% lol.
TND
TND
our web design teacher taught us bad practice the WHOLE TIME
01:15
@TND So? It's not that surprising. Ternary operators are really edge-casey.
TND
TND
I know, but she's supposed to have a college degree in the stuff!
She asked me for help making a JAR!
user1182183
@EtiennedeMartel Well ok you don't have to care, but let me at least look for people who do, ok : )
@TND that's not surprising. she probably took the dumbed-down version of whatever programming class that was
TND
TND
I guess ._.
i mean, eh. they teach programming with java now, cause pointers were too hard or something.
TND
TND
01:17
Java makes everything but primitives pointers
@TND Degrees are worthless. I've seen people with degrees and even experience that can't even program their way out of a hello world.
TND
TND
And strings are objects, not primitives
yeah, but it hides them in a nice objecty wrapper.
well, "nice"
lol i was recently in a programming I course this summer and the stuff they had given us to use wouldnt work on my computer, so i ended up re-writting alot of the software they gave us to use lol.
needless to say it was an easy credit ^.^
TND
TND
lol I'm in an IT specialty center for my high school
Like, all advanced classes
But the IT classes are terrible
01:18
Ah, high school, eh?
TND
TND
Yeah
The head of the center is the worst programmer there
That explains it.
TND
TND
EG she CAN'T program
you'd be surprised (well, maybe not now that you've seen) at how little most people actually know about programming...or even computers in general
01:19
same :P I helped tutor AP comp sci/web design/computer science/programming I/programming II last year (freshman year).
TND
TND
Best programmer there is really good
And the math teacher is so good at math it's scary
i used to think i sucked...til i realized that so many people sucked so much worse :)
TND
TND
But seriously, the head of the IT center once asked a kid if installing W8 on a laptop would automatically GIVE IT A TOUCHSCREEN
LOL!
TND
TND
YES
It's so bad
01:20
that would be cause for face-palm >.>
TND
TND
More like half the class died laughing, then she tried to laugh it off as a joke xD
I'm probably better than maybe 90-95% of people who consider themselves programmers
But I don't think I'm good
Seeing these amazing people
They're just all TERRIBLE
And it seems like half of web developers who've never programmed ever think HTML is a programming language ._.
@TND I don't think so.
When i first walked into here i thought i had a decent grasp on c++. Then within about 6 seconds of watching chat i was proven wrong o_o
C++ is a bitch.
It's a huge, over-engineered, incredibly complex mess of a language.
lol
01:23
It's also incredibly good at its niche (high performance applications).
@EtiennedeMartel yeah, til you need those parts and realize "oh, wait...c++ already does that".
TND
TND
I like javascript so much better, because I'm lazy
@cHao What? Shooting you in the foot? Yeah, it does that.
TND
TND
But it's soooo slooow
@TND It's fast on V8.
01:24
i do like v8 / node / that sort of thing
easy and fast. :)
TND
TND
I'm on firefox because chrome has rendering issues on my comp
see, i first started looking at c++ when i needed better performance in part of one of my python programs.... Then i realised how much it sucks to write modules in c++ for python >.>
TND
TND
Idk why ._.
Yeah, Python is implemented in C.
01:25
so i thought, why not embed the python stuff i need into c++ and avoid the hassle lol.
TND
TND
I haven't used python in forever...
It was the first language I learned, but I barely know it anymore
It all looks unfamilar
oh, i love it to death lol. i write alot of things for school work in it haha
Yeah, Python is great.
TND
TND
Oh lol
Or so I've heard.
Ha.
TND
TND
01:27
I just use javascript when I need to write something simple
Why did that send twice? ._.
Whatever
@EtiennedeMartel it is, but if your used to using '{}' for code blocks instead of indentation, it can get confusing :P
@ITNinja You still have to indent your code for clarity, even with braces.
no i know, but i mean as part of syntax, it can get confusing.
Yeah, I guess you can forget what language you're using at times.
TND
TND
Should I be using stringstreams for concatenating strange things, or is there a better way?
01:31
it was funny because my programming teacher had to add a macro for commenting braces for readability for her :P. for each of her code blocks it went '#{' and '#}', and since you can already use ';' at the end of lines that was fine lol. but i found it amusing reading the code she wrote because it was very similar to Java lol.
TND
TND
Sure as in sure, I can use stringstreams, or sure, there's better ways? lol sorry
Use stringstreams.
TND
TND
okay
I just make one stringstream at the very beginning I call a and then use it/clear it
For convenience
Cause I saw someone do that somewhere, I think
zomg win32 GUI code= brain explosion
01:36
lol
TND
TND
lol I'm not using windows code
I want to make a habit of not doing so
Particularly because I don't have windows xD
win32 code really isn't all that bad. it's just that it's doing a lot of stuff that languages like c++ and python take for granted
@TND I have to use windows for school, and i havent gotten around to dual boot linux yet >.>
it's basically doing oo in c
TND
TND
lol I just use virtualbox or wine whenever I need to
With the W8 preview
01:38
@cHao and yeah, i do take for granded Tkinter in python haha. I like the 3 step process of assign-place-configure lol.
i have a linux vm running in virtualbox right now :)
Ell
Ell
I always have a linux vm running
TND
TND
I tried putting ubuntu inside mint inside ubuntu
Just for fun
Ell
Ell
unfortunately opengl doesn't play so well so I'm having to migrate to windows
TND
TND
Ubuntu #2 took FOREVER to install xD
01:39
@ITNinja well, a decent GUI framework makes that kind of thing a lot easier in C++ than raw win32 C code :)
Ell
Ell
suck big time
@cHao I have been looking at Qt, is that any good or should i go with Wx?
Ell
Ell
@tnd for funsies, alternate the architecture between 32 and 64 bit
imho, c++ GUI libraries are all ugly
or have annoyances
Haven't messed with Qt in aaaaages. or wx, for that matter. gtk and gtkmm work well enough for me :)
I seem to remember Qt having an extra compile step, though. like, it'd take some C++'ish Qt-specific language, and rewrite it to C++?
TND
TND
LOL eli
64 bit inside 32
Ell
Ell
01:42
@chao yeah it has its own preprocessor. shudder
I think that is just plain wrong
depends on the point of view. I mean, basically, aren't all programmers just using some language that some other program rewrites into machine code? :)
prog-ception lol.
Ell
Ell
yeah but preprocessors are bad enough in the first place. it makes the programme look ugly and its just unclean IMHO
thank C for that mess. :)
Ell
Ell
you can't call it a library if it needs its own preprocessor
yeah :L
01:45
Preprocessor is awesome.
Ell
Ell
how can you think that?
it's not a library...it's a framework
and frameworks are more than happy to make you do things their way
Ell
Ell
yeah that's what turns me off it
TND
TND
Just curious... how does V8 compile things like functions being variables into machine code? That's so fundamentally... different
Ell
Ell
prefer a nice little compact library where I.just add an include directory and link a library
01:46
lol. Im working on a Python UDP framework as we speak xD I think its pretty adaptable lol.
@Mysticial Erm.
@Ell It's how I do most of my CPU dispatching.
*UDP Server framework
@TND to a machine, it's basically the difference between jmp someLocation and jmp [someVariable]. not a big deal there
Ell
Ell
but abritary compile time code would be better :L
01:47
#ifdef SSE2
//  blah blah
#elif defined SSE3
//  blah blah
...
Ell
Ell
not textual substitution and whatnot
TND
TND
Oh okay
I don't know machine code at all
So it just seemed really different to me
Is it useful to know?
googling textual substitution lol. Im trying to keep up with this conversation xD
@TND it's really different to you cause you're used to languages with static code. :) but, i mean, C and C++ have the same thing, just not as pretty
Ell
Ell
depends
TND
TND
01:49
alright
Might look it up
@TND Depends on what you're doing. If you're not doing high performance, then machine code is useless except for debugging.
Ell
Ell
if you're doing embedded stuff it would be but I think its.not much use otherwise
TND
TND
Okay
void (*function_ptr)(); declares a variable you can call like function_ptr();
Ell
Ell
yeahif you don't do embedded you would rarely need to read it, but never write
TND
TND
01:50
Okay then
though typically, in c++ you can just use function objects that override operator()()
Ell
Ell
@itninja by textual substitution I mean literally replacing one peice of text with another, e.g. the preprocessor will replace '#include<vector>' with the contents of the file vector. no magic involved, no checking if its already done just literally replacing the text
or std::function and std::bind
ooooh ok i see. TY :D
@Mysticial i'd argue that some knowledge of at least assembly language is a really good thing. makes you view pointers, control structures, all that from a whole new angle
i'll never argue for someone learning what 80 2a ff means, though :)
@cHao True. Though I managed to teach a friend all that pointer stuff without even touching assembly.
TND
TND
01:54
lol what's that
I was basically like: Think of memory as a street. A pointer is a house number... You can increment it/decrement it...
Ell
Ell
@chao I think knowing how the raw bytes represent the data is necessary but not machine language
Oh shit... maybe that should be my next big answer...
jk
lol! then you see 90 answers using that same sentence xD
Ell
Ell
that is a really good analogy actually
01:55
That would work much better during the early days of SO.
But unfortunately all the basic concepts have been "taken" already.
Ell
Ell
you can still post more answers
i learned assembly language first, cause i was stuck on a coco (just basic and assembly language at my disposal). but that helped a lot -- when i got to c, i was like "oh, pointers." :)
in python ive never needed to use pointers or worry about memory too much (in certain cases ive had to worry about memory, IE large lists's/dict's) so im still trying to understand those lol.
but that analogy is great haha
TND
TND
What happens when almost every single possible issue is addressed on SO?
I bet it'll be a wall of bad questions xD
This Universe collapses.
01:57
we go through and delete all the stupid stuff. that'll reduce the question count by, like, 75%
we get nothing but re-asked questions, and the world slips into a black hole.
Ell
Ell
I find it incredibly difficult to use languages without pointers
TND
TND
lol true
Ell
Ell
like ruby. I never know when stuff is copied
TND
TND
01:58
I've never used a language without any pointers at all
Ell
Ell
it is said that its all references, so why doesn't a=0;b=a;b=10 cause a to be 10?
because variables are the references. you reassign the reference, it points at a new object now.
TND
TND
Because basically, when it doesn't use pointers, it's like every assign is a clone
Ell
Ell
so how do I change the object it refers to?
you do that every time you say =.
02:00
Using its methods.
oh, that.
yeah, you use the object's methods to manipulate it
lol i watched a webcast of a guy talking about Erlang, and the thought of having no while/for loops (well there are, but its not like while(condition){//do stuff}) was eye opening haha
@ITNinja try haskell sometime :)
Ell
Ell
right so it would be a=0;b=a;b.change(100); a equals 100?
or any really functional language, really
@Ell if there is a Fixnum#change method that replaces the object with a whole new one, yeah. but i doubt that's possible
Ell
Ell
02:03
yeah that was just an example.method
if you do like a = (some object); b = a; b.change(), then yeah, a should see the changes too
but if you replace the reference, it'd be with a reference to a whole other object -- so a and b now refer to different objects again
Ell
Ell
its just.never clear to me when a new object.is being reffered to
so I just have to trust that it works. it always does, I just get uneasy when doing tree or graph structures
well...in ruby, basically, everything is an object. so it's all references
Ell
Ell
yeah
apart from references themselves
when you say =, you're typically reassigning a reference
i'm not sure if ruby has any other way to reassign/replace a reference
02:08
well there goes a perfect day haha totally just cut my left thumb >.> ouch.
@ITNinja i understand that perfection creeps you out, but is self-mutilation really the solution? :)
@cHao sorry for the slow response, but it wasnt intentional haha.
g'mawnin nubs
mornin :)
sup
02:17
nm, just doing some server stuff, you?
also nm
playing Starcraft 2, thinking about getting some breakfast, doing some wokr
cool :) im about to go watch some dr who i think, im not getting much server work dne with one hand >.>
@DeadMG Mawnin'
alright, yeah im going to log for the night before i crash my server again and cause anymore damage >.> i will talk to yall tomorrow :)
02:43
Another mawning, another running session. I hate the weather, way too hot.
agree
03:37
hi
04:15
@DeadMG Damn you wake early.
@EtiennedeMartel Not really. I had a nice long sleep.
@DeadMG Well, it's still an early hour.
I generally go to sleep around midnight, and I need my 8 hours of sleep.
whereas I went to sleep about 16:30
You are a weird person.
I don't say that in a derogatory way.
nah
it's simply caused by problems sleeping after consuming too many cookies
causing my day to contain more than 24 hours
04:21
Oh.
Cookies.
my usual waking time is something more like 11am -> 1am
Ah, that's more reasonable...
Then again, it's not like I can judge anyone by his or her sleep schedule.
Also, this just in: Closer, by Nine Inch Nails, is an amazing song.
lol
yo
04:32
hai
04:44
wussup
morning
@DeadMG 10 hours of sleep? you lazy bastard! :p
@StackedCrooked LOL
hmm
Windows 8 adds an atomic addition operation
05:02
10 hours? damn...
Windows 8...
I just had a most exquisite run!
But it's hot now. :(
boilin ur blood
So I moved to a new apartment facing the east. Every morning the sun shines directly on me making me wake up. The rest of the day it's cool, so that's good.
lol
I just love cunts that try to evade branches. In JavaScript. lol.
05:19
you know, I hadn't quite realized this, but the Type interface is actually quite difficult to specify beyond the obvious
having fun deciding how to deal with references and extension methods
You really need to think it through, yes. Most of the other languages had the benefit of sucky incremental development.
They do the obvious and then add the problem resolutions later.
In 2012., no such chance for experience-based upgrades.
Well, that's true for anything. Cars, airplanes, boats, trains, programming.
yeah
the problem is that they resolved the problems in a less than optimal way :P
That's nature's way of giving smart people a chance to compete :Đ
lol
I sometimes look at these comments
people leave on answers and questions
Some people only want to pick on the answer, for the most irrelevant things
05:28
and name lookup is the most irritating thing ever
which can partially be proven to be wrong or simply plain retarded
either you lookup too much, or not enough
I also really need to add some facility for deduction
mawnin]
05:41
That 'egoraptor-style' of commentary gets tiring real quick
I don't know, I spent the whole day watching his stuff, and I still find it incredibly entertaining.
I'm watching it.
It's pretty funny.
Hardest game ever. I never got beyond the first level when I was a kid.
06:01
0
Q: Bug in timing of chat room

NinjaTurtleThere are different time showing in all chat rooms and in Posse Commitatus chat-room. For more information check below images link: http://i.imgur.com/TbRah.png http://i.imgur.com/PpBcS.png

Top quality human specimens.
mawning nooberies
blewberries
06:14
@DeadMG Again?
@EtiennedeMartel Feels like I just woke up.
Aaaah.
Well, me, I'm gonna get some sleep.
Day off tomorrow, but still.
@DeadMG Took a shower? :P
Nice to know my country doesn't suck completely.
what even is that?
Blues, baby.
It's universal!
06:15
what even is that?
hmmm
to provide asynchronous file I/O as Standard?
06:50
no rly?
I'm simultaneously sleepy and bored, which is a pretty bad situation
rofl
nearly wrote #include "console.html"
FBX?
@ScottW just hungry then?
Yeah that's wrong.
Needs to be "#include <conio.h>"
@StackedCrooked What is with their site layout (or absense thereof)

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