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09:00
Well a deep copy would be stupid wouldn't it
@thecoshman @sbi is going to be angry. That's the third table you've wrecked.
@Cicada you mean, like how C++ does shallow copies as default?
Not exactly
@Neil third? hardly! I have my own table factory just to keep me flipping
There's no copy constructor involved in C#, I don't know how C++ does
With C# you basically get a bitwise clone
(what's your exact problem btw?)
09:02
@thecoshman Sounds expensive
@Cicada That's exactly what happens with the implicit cctor in C++, the most logical course of action.
No, C++ does memberwise copy. Not bitwise.
@Cicada So what was so inefficient about the program that allowed you to optimize 100 times?
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, yes, but it is still pretty high-level. My bad in expressing myself.
@Neil Mono threaded. Also massive nested loops, and no caching
09:06
Basically, you still get any member inside which is potentially a pointer copied over bit by bit to represent the same address, effectively ending up with multiple references to the same object which might burn soon.
@Cicada Ouch, yeah I can understand why then
Probably made by a PHP programmer
Btw, @RMartinhoFernandes, you were grumpy yesterday? :P
@Neil Physicist.
@Cicada Hey!
Does this do what I want?
derived(derived&& o) : base(std::move(o)), member(o.member) {}
09:09
forgot std::move on o.member
I thought I didn't need move there
(if it supports)
@Pubby Why not?
o is an lvalue, as it has a name. If you wish to perform a move, it must be an rvalue.
@DomagojPandža No.
@DomagojPandža What? Physicists suck at programming (generally speaking)
09:11
Well then what am I thinking of? Would this work? member(std::move(o).member)
Biologists too
Even programmers suck at programming.
8
Dammit, I was going to say that.
NOW STAR IT
@Cicada True that
09:11
For some reason I recall seeing members inherit their rvalue-ness
Move the member.
@Pubby std::move(o.member) shall be fine.
@Pubby They do, I think.
Pubby, did you mean that you don't want to move it or that you're unsure that you need to move it?
@DeadMG Doesn't matter, it's awful.
@RMartinhoFernandes Agreed, hence why I said to use the alternative.
09:12
Let me find that one post where I heard it
@DeadMG You're right, they do.
But ugly.
Is there anyway to search for a question that has answers by 2 user ids?
I dunno SQL
Oh, this was what I was thinking of:
template <typename T>
void g(T&& t) {
  f(std::forward<T>(t).x);
}
So std::move(foo).x is same as std::move(foo.x)
Except awful.
09:20
Sexy and you know it.
static_assert(std::is_awful<decltype(std::move(foo).x)>::value, "Yes, it is awful.");
roflcakes
Template Wanker strikes again!
@Pubby Technically, there may be a specialization of std::move for one type but not the other.
@DeadMG ? There are no explicit specializations of std::move.
09:22
had to star, though.
@RMartinhoFernandes Can you not specialize it like any other Standard function (for UDTs)?
std::move(std::move(std::move(std::move(foo).a).b).c).d
That should work, right?
@DeadMG I don't that one is off-limits.
@Pubby Cannot be unseen. :(
Not everything in std can be specialized by the user, in order to maintain a semblance of sanity.
09:23
std::move is a very sensitive function depending on some nasty stuff.
Specialization is out of the question
Move while you move.
I think I'm going to go sleep whilst I sleep
then embark upon 999999 hours of cleaning before landlady arrives
Same here, 11:26 am
haven't slept since... I don't know, 27.6.?
I haven't slept since 3000BC.
@DomagojPandža Actually I'm moving to another apartment today.
09:26
@DeadMG Your house sounds just like mine :)
Also, good night.
@DeadMG So you'd clean for 114 years?ù
@StackedCrooked Both. The original app was terribly designed. It was C (actually, C with newand delete, so it's C++, but no other C++ feature was used). From a pure theoretic approach, it worked (and that's amazing). On an infinitely powerful machine it would work. But it was just too slow to be usable (a single run would usually last a month on a supercalculator grid!). Changing a few things in the app already sped it up by a lot, but not nearly enough. So I rewrote the whole mess for CUDA.
@CheersandhthAlf Well it is interesting indeed, but I have to deal with awful code D: Also, debugging requires some advanced knowledge of chromosome physics (which I don't have), so it's kind of painful.
Awful code is the best.
Wait, there's something wrong in that sentence.
static_assert(!std::is_awful<this>::value, "code is not the best")
09:31
Oh gawd, they starred it.
What the heck does is_awful do?
Take a guess.
@RMartinhoFernandes Aww-ful code is the best?
@RMartinhoFernandes Checks and makes sure your code doesn't have a code smell.. I don't know, you tell me
@Neil Something awful?
09:32
@StackedCrooked shrug
@Neil smelliness and awfulness are two different things
@Pubby What is awfulness then?
The property of something that is awful.
Awful is like awesome except 100% awe
Lounge<C++>, the endless pursuit of trolling and lollygagging
09:37
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Back to normal: apes grumpier than robots once more. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes What?
@sbi I'm not grumpy.
sbi
sbi
@Neil const bool is_awful = true;
@sbi WHY must it be const!?? WHY!?!?!
sbi
sbi
@Neil That, young padawan, is called "experience".
09:45
@sbi Oh, incidentally, you played very well. However.. Go Italy! Whoo!
sbi
sbi
@Neil room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Ape much grumpier than robot [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
See, I was right :P
I actually wasn't expecting things to turn out that way
I thought we would have struggled more and ended up even or something
@Neil it's worth it
sbi
sbi
@ManofOneWay Currently, I am cutting my teeth on the PowerShell, though. :(
@Neil I'm not angry about him doing this. I am amused.
09:49
I like PowerShell. Anything I can help with?
@sbi I honestly do try to limit the amount of tables I flip, but as they say, and ascii picture can say a thousands words
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, I do have that spec here, for a script that recurses over an SVN wc, branches all externals to a specific folder in the repo, moves the references to that, and then branches the wc, too. If you can produce this off-hand, I'd gladly take it. :)
@thecoshman an ASCII picture
@sbi stop baiting me :P
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman It's you who's baiting me.
@sbi but I don't have any bananas on me
4
sbi
sbi
09:52
So what do you guys think about this?
@sbi Oh, my SVN is way too rusty. Sorry.
@sbi Oh, I +1ed from the title alone. reading
sbi
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, my SVN is pretty good. My PS isn't just rusty, though, it's non-existant.
How do you call a n00b who is longer in business than a n00b by definition, but still acting like a n00b?
@sbi You mean the first draft isn't kept?
@Nils n00b wannabe
sbi
sbi
09:55
@Neil What do you mean, "you mean"? (That isn't my proposal. In fact, my answer, currently highest-voted, argues against it.)
ehe
@sbi Logically, if the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th drafts are kept, I have to ask why the 1st is discarded, naturally
But it's common that also non-newbies are called n00bs, right?
sbi
sbi
@Neil Logically, everything you edit an answer/question, you have 5 more mins to sneak in more changes, which coalesce with the first one. This also applies to the first edit, the one with which you create the answer/question.
09:58
ohai
@sbi I can see the reason why they do that. They probably don't like having ever tiny edit saved on their database
I wondered are #include statements case sensitive?
if I have a file called Header.hpp and header.hpp, are they considered different?
sbi
sbi
@Neil I doubt that that's a problem. I rather think of this as a UX (user experience) thing. And a good one.
@TonyTheLion They are. Except when the OS isn't.
@FredOverflow If you use floating point numbers, you're not really supposed to compare them for equality. Pro-tip
@sbi UX?
sbi
sbi
@TonyTheLion Not on Windows. Sigh. But try to port this to a platform which sanely deals with case, and you're bust. Or try to port something from such a platform to Windows. Bust again.
10:01
@Neil I just don't want people to believe in black magic.
@FredOverflow It honestly surprises me to see people use floating points and compare them for equality.
Everytime I do, I think, "Dear God, he knows that's not safe right?! Right!?"
It's not always wrong, for example for (float f = 1.0f; f != 10.0f; ++f) will work perfectly fine.
@FredOverflow You could perhaps predict behavior, but I think that's asking for trouble
It's only when you deal with numbers than cannot be represented exactly that you run into trouble.
@FredOverflow ++?
10:03
@Neil Perhaps? I can guarantee it. Every integer up to 2^24 is perfectly representable as a float.
@RMartinhoFernandes yes, ++ also works on floats and doubles.
Well, why don't you use ints, then?
@RMartinhoFernandes Perhaps I need the number as a float inside the loop? Dunno.
Or perhaps I'm using JavaScript, where every number is a double. It's nice to know that for loops still work reliably.
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes C-style cast?
@FredOverflow Guarantee is a strong word. You're telling me that I could not find a program using floats from -2^24 to 2^24 in any platform that would not properly use its value correctly?
10:05
@RMartinhoFernandes Counting as ints and converting to floats surely isn't gonna be faster than counting in floats directly.
Integer float values, pardon
But it's more resistant to change.
user784668
@Neil if(x == std::numeric_limits<double>::infinity()) // ha ha bitch, what's wrong NOW?
@Neil If that platform uses IEEE754 floats then you have the guarantee, yes.
@FredOverflow How do you know it won't loop forever?
10:06
2 mins ago, by FredOverflow
@Neil Perhaps? I can guarantee it. Every integer up to 2^24 is perfectly representable as a float.
user784668
@StackedCrooked IEEE754 guarantees it won't.
@FredOverflow Even the article you linked to writes that you cannot even do "float x = 1.1f; if(x == 1.1f) { ... }"
@Neil Wrong. You cannot do x == 1.1 without the f is x is a float.
Uh? I thought even 10 wasn't representable exactly as a float
@FredOverflow How do you think 1.0f is represented as a float?
10:07
comparing 1.1f with 1.1f is perfectly well defined to always be true.
Compiler minimizes floating point error, but that doesn't mean there is none
@Cicada Many 32-bit integers are.
@Neil sign is 0, characteristic is 0+127, mantissa is 0 (because of the implicit 1). So that would be 0x3f800000 if I'm not mistaken.
@Fanael :P
Oh wait.
@FredOverflow How about this: You going to perform this check every time you use floating point?
If not, you have no guarantee, hence you should not write a program that assumes anything of the sort
10:10
@Neil What check?
"If that platform uses IEEE754 floats then you have the guarantee, yes."
Last time I checked, all my platforms used IEEE754.
Something like it.
@FredOverflow All yours? What about all mine. Did you check those too?
user784668
@Neil #if !PLATFORM_IS_IEEE754 #error what the FUCK are you using? #endif
user784668
10:11
@Neil I did, they do.
@Neil I don't know anything about your platform, so even if I don't use any floats at all, chances are my programs won't work on your toaster. Sorry.
@FredOverflow Or.. you could simply not make such an outlandish assumption about how floats are going to be interpreted and write your program in a different way
Ok, different question. Why not f < 10.0f; like we'd do (we would, right?) with integers?
If you want integers, use int.
I never said I write programs like that. All I'm saying is floats aren't black magic.
user784668
10:13
@FredOverflow Admit it. You write programs like that.
@RMartinhoFernandes People will still believe that somehow due to voodoo or something, successively adding 1 to a floating point number will not make it 10.0f exactly, and you'll end up with 9.999f instead.
@FredOverflow Well all I'm saying is, black magic or not, don't use floats like that.. they're clearly error-prone if accuracy is your objective
user784668
@Neil > "floats" … "accuracy"
@FredOverflow Ok, I think I understand what you're arguing now.
user784668
10:15
@FredOverflow Are they stupid or what? It's obvious you'll end up with bacon, not with 9.999f.
@Neil Then you shouldn't use ints either, because they suffer from overflow a lot more than floats.
Any good website for CPU comparisons?
I'm using passmark atm. But some figures are weird.
Maybe they're just noise
@Cicada For what purpose?
user784668
@Cicada Rule of thumb: your CPU always sucks.
To choose a CPU to buy
10:18
Hey, that's offensive to robots.
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes No, robots' CPUs aren't her CPU.
I simply say to myself "I'm not gonna spend more than €100 on a CPU" and then buy the most expensive one that doesn't exceed €100. (replace €100 with your favorite number)
user784668
@Cicada Pick a random one. It gonna suck anyway.
@FredOverflow I see your point, but there's a difference between using ints when values are less than 2^31 and -2^31 and using floats for equality because under specific circumstances, you can.
@FredOverflow Fifteen cents?
10:19
@RMartinhoFernandes You can probably buy a used 286 for fifteen cents on a flea market. Good luck.
Well if I want a quad core it's more around 200€ anyway.
But if you're willing to spend 10 bucks or more, you can already buy Core2Duos at eBay.
user784668
@Cicada what
@Cicada You want a quadcore? That's your only requirement? Then buy the slowest quadcore there is.
@FredOverflow ._.
A quad core that isn't actually four people solving equations on a sheet of paper
10:21
I'm serious. A couple of years ago, I really wanted two cores, so I bought the slowest Core2Duo there was. I've never looked back, it's still a great CPU for me.
user784668
@Cicada Four i386.
@FredOverflow You're starting to appear a bit minimalist/spartan to me now
@FredOverflow duo-core is better for performance if you don't have a lot of apps open
Better for gaming, for example
@sehe I am. It just needs to be fast enough for my needs.
Linus apparently compiles an android kernel in 19s.
Must be some serious hardware
user784668
10:24
@Cicada He does it by hand.
"serious hardware.. he does it by hand" Are these intentionally sexual or am I just perverted?
user784668
@Neil You are.
@FredOverflow Yeah I know. 80kb/s Ogg Vorbis is good enough for you :)
Wut.
@sehe Isn't that the cat?
10:26
@sehe It's not "good enough", it's proven by my own blind ABX tests to be indistinguishable from the original to my ears.
You're trusting blind people on this?
I'm only trusting blind people when it comes to audio. And myself.
user784668
@FredOverflow I wouldn't trust myself if I were you.
@FredOverflow Link or it didn't happen.
I wouldn't be suprised if it was about as well organized classy a test as The Bitrate Expirement which proves nothing, except some average. It doesn't prove things are indistinguishable, it just proves that most people don't distinguish (not even can't but just don't)
@Fanael But I'm the only person with my ears. Who else would I be able to trust?
@sehe Why do I need to link to my own blind ABX tests for my own purposes? It's my listening experience, not yours.
10:30
Apparently, the only person with your ears is deaf. How sad is that? ;)
It's awesome, because it means I can fit more Ogg Vorbis files on my portable without any apparent loss of quality.
quick! every one rush to put the new pinned welcome message up!
If you are new here, please read the newbie hints and keep the acronym list under your pillow. Thank you.
21
user784668
That?
10:37
oh snap :P
user784668
Now somebody should bin^H^H^Hpin it.
@Fanael should what it?
user784668
Backspace is the keyboard key that originally pushed the typewriter carriage one position backwards, and in modern computer systems moves the display cursor one position backwards, deletes the character at that position, and shifts back the text after that position by one position. Backspace key in typewriters In some typewriters, a typist would, for example, type a lowercase letter A with acute accent (á) by typing a lowercase letter A, backspace, and then the acute accent key. This technique (also known as overstrike) is the basis for such spacing modifiers in computer character set...
ooh, I've made onto to the frequent list :D
@Fanael I see ¬_¬
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman I was wondering why the old one was still up, when its 14 day period ended yesterday. Apparently either me or balpha have an off-by-one error there.
10:53
@sbi balpha?
sbi
sbi
balpha ♦, Berlin, Germany
11.7k 4 44 72
@thecoshman Some SO related twitter chap
@sehe He's the chat dev.
sbi
sbi
@sehe He and, I think, Marc Gravel created the chat.
@sehe By the way, I only use Ogg Vorbis for portable hearing. At home, I use lossless.
user784668
10:58
@FredOverflow Lossless, which is lossy?
@FredOverflow Oh. Good. Although I'm tempted to say -why- (since you cannot even hear the difference blind)
@Fanael Wut. Lossless as in flac or PCM I guess?
user784668
@sehe Too few details. It may be in fact lossy.

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