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00:47
@sehe Most likely missed any real unpleasantness, but got upset when somebody complained about a "microagression" (which, more likely than not was something like: "that's undefined behavior").
 
1 hour later…
01:55
@JerryCoffin Well to be fair, "undefined behavior" is not a microagression it is an affront to our sensibilities.
 
3 hours later…
04:42
A chickens eyesight is 300 degrees without moving their head were as a humans is 180 degrees.
In Australian, whether a drug is prescription or over the counter depends on Poisons Standard ... interesting to know
05:48
0 hours later…
06:21
I've always wondered if multiple Electron apps could use the same resources? Aka share the same Chrome render, or the same Node.js
Or like don't split the app into processes, to avoid IPC
Would that reduce latency?
you can reduce latency by moving closer to the server
 
2 hours later…
08:40
@Mikhail maybe
 
2 hours later…
10:46
If anyone has heard talk about the golden lands of Discord and want a ticket, here it is. You'll be stuck in a lobby at first, I forget why... join us, we have cookies, for ourselves
11:15
why why why why why... where do ppl learn this crap? ugh...
(lol the first answer starts with "Your code is a total mess")
nwp
nwp
Maybe from here.
Ven
Ven
@Borgleader holy shit.
@PeterSommerlad union is fine. enum should just be an alias for an int, disallowing operator| and friends is stupid, pointers are fine. I have more problems with, for example, C's usual arithmetic conversion.
@Ven I kinda wish there was SFINAE around this, so if for example I created an enum that was enum<std::flags> it would automatically be a bitwise enum
Ven
Ven
@Mgetz You ask for that, they give you std::vector<bool>.
actually that's something C# does well
@Ven except I'm looking for something a little closer to Java's enum where I can do operators and shit
one of the few things I do thing java got right
but tbh I want discriminating unions more
Ven
Ven
11:41
RIP C++ Lounge then lol — Lightness Races in Orbit 20 hours ago
hahahahahaha
11:58
long live the lounge - get really really old, just never dies
Its already pretty dead, ever since Discord happened
75
Q: A friend asks me all the time to pick up money for her (Western Union, Moneygram)

Gall AnonimA friend of mine trades Bitcoin and often asks me to pick up money for her, i.e., someone sends money to me (on my name) and I just pick it up and give it to my friend. The amounts are usually around $500. Is this legal? Can I get into trouble doing this? I have no idea who the senders are. T...

hah, I read something like this in Wired a few years back.
The lady got involved with some online boyfriend (it was a scam) who eventually asked her to do exactly this. Pick up money and drop it off somewhere, always <500$ (because thats below the limit that banks check IIRC) and eventually she got caught by police and the "boyfriend" disappeared soon after (more like immediately)
When I saw the title in the side bar I remembered that article immediately. No way that shit is legal.
@Borgleader the term is "structuring" and it's very very illegal
 
1 hour later…
13:15
@Borgleader The population has certainly dropped. Interestingly, the number of arguments and flames seems to have dropped pretty dramatically just after LRiO left...
@JerryCoffin I would say the number of inappropriate threads dropped after other users moved primarily to discord too
@Mgetz The number of thread in general dropped. Real question would be whether the percentage of inappropriate threads dropped (but yes, it probably did too).
the number of inappropriate stuff dropped to 0 after everybody died
@JerryCoffin you mean LRiO + the rest 10 regulars ...
13:19
@JerryCoffin yet
but I do agree, if there are less people, there tend to be less arguments
@Morwenn I'm working under the theory that I'm immortal. It's been correct so far.
doesn't prevent from depression linked to the idea of an eventual death v0v
@Jerry will train his kids to argue in this place >_<
@Morwenn I use complete lack of fore-thought to prevent any such depression.
13:21
being busy often helps
who thinks about death :p I usually think about how to not recklessly or accidentally kill myself :p
coz I like to do dangerous things ~_~
@Morwenn I have said that the key to true happiness is not having time to worry about whether you're happy or not.
let me not think about that :p
@TelKitty I didn't think that aussies or kiwis were allowed to think about death except in the abstract ;p
@Morwenn You have my permission.
13:23
@JerryCoffin being died would qualify for that
@Mgetz how so?
@TelKitty have to maintain the image of the fearless Aussie/Kiwi
@TelKitty I've yet to be told that from anybody in a position to actually know.
@Mgetz that's what movie/broadcasting industry would like to lead you to believe
this is known
like the dropbears
13:56
Apple is extremely strict with its software. This is why you (usually) only see Mac OS X on Apple made computers.
this is completely false
pretty sure I have run mac os on a windows machine through VMware
2
Q: Flag as duplicate option is ... duplicate?

DarkCygnusIt just came to my attention that when flagging (not VTC) a Question as duplicate one is presented with the following options: As we can see, among those is the "a duplicate..." option. However, if we select the "should be closed..." option instead, we are presented again with an option to fla...

... and marked as duplicate
word duplicate appeared 3 times in the title
14:20
@TelKitty I'm sure you actually meant "'duplicate' was duplicated three times in the title"... :-)
Also IPC will save us.
14:40
@Mikhail IPC has been saving Intel for a while, but pretty soon they're going to have to get on the stick and get something below 14 nm to work, or AMD's going to steal more of their lunch.
@JerryCoffin Interestingly => As expected
@Borgleader Well, that too, not that you mention it.
@JerryCoffin the major concern that I have is that Process technology always used to be Intel's bread and butter. It's how they could get that IPC. But with their process tech lagging Global Foundries and Samsung at this point that advantage is negated
Also tsmc did the shrink
Are they still going to Broadcom merger?
14:57
@Mgetz Global did a half-shrink, so to speak. Honestly, their shrink from "14 nm" to "12 nm" probably doesn't do much more than achieve close to parity with Intel's "14 nm". For the last decade (or more) nearly everybody else's "nm" has been rather larger than Intel's, so even at the same (claimed) process node, they've still been a bit behind.
@JerryCoffin yeah but TSMC and Samsung both had full 10nm nodes
nobody has 7nm yet
although TSMC claims they have HV prod going
@Mikhail The only recent talk I've heard of a Broadcom merger was with Qualcomm, and that got blocked (but still put enough pressure on Qualcomm's board that they laid off ~1200 people last week).
15:12
So, everybody is fucked excepted TSMC?
Intel PE ratio is 15 and NVIDIA is around 50. Why?
Does that mean people think NVIDIA has a much higher growth potential?
@Mikhail Monopoly
Intel is facing a shrinking market as ARM, POWER, and RISC-V muscle in
Whats the argument? NVIDIA has a high PE because its the only source of GPUs? But doesn't this require market growth?
there is a LOT of interest in alternatives for CPUs
@Mikhail at the moment yes at least for that FLOPS/W level, but the market is desperate for disruption
I wouldn't say Nvidia is a good investment choice
I think NVIDIA's PE ratio is too high. I can understand Intel's PE ratio.
the fact of the matter is that market WILL saturate
it's just like apple with the iphone/ipad
15:20
I mean, do you believe NVIDIA has a 4x growth potential?
moreover it's becoming cheaper to do ASIC processors for dedicated loads
@Mikhail No, 2x and temporarily only
the market WILL saturate
Would it be wrong to say its pretty overpriced?
and moreover things like tensorflow will undercut badly
@Mikhail no it's absolutely correct, and driven all by #$(* coin mining
Not machine yearning?
I could understand them if they said, "The AI market will grow by 3x times, and we will pwn that market".
@Mikhail no because that crowd is very quickly moving into the ASIC market. E.g. tensor and stuff
15:23
So, would agree its overvalued?
A tensor processing unit (TPU) is an AI accelerator application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC) developed by Google specifically for neural network machine learning. == Overview == The tensor processing unit was announced in 2016 at Google I/O, when the company said that the TPU had already been used inside their data centers for over a year. The chip has been specifically designed for Google's TensorFlow framework, a symbolic math library which is used for machine learning applications such as neural networks. However, Google still uses CPUs and GPUs for other types of machine learning. Other...
I know
I use this stuff, almost, at work
@Mikhail you used a double negative in your original assertion, I had to respond with a negative to negate the double. So yes I think they are massively overvalued
I guess my point is that ASICs are getting cheaper in the specialized hardware market. GPUs are still expensive at that range, nearing ASIC prices. The ability to dictate your own hardware is a massive incentive to NOT use a GPU
@Mikhail I like the almost part
16:08
Yesterday I learned Twitch.tv channels' chats can be accessed through their IRC servers.
I love that not everything has to be web only these days.
16:55
@Mgetz Specialized hardware has always been cheaper. This is just a matter of the ML market settling down enough that you can reasonably hope to design and use an ASIC before it's obsolete.
@sehe so what you're saying is those of us who went to discord are innocent :D
17:58
@JerryCoffin that I have no visibility into
 
2 hours later…
19:41
@thecoshman I have no idea how you reach that conclusion
In fact, both times, Scarlet was around to witness. So...
20:47
@sehe with delightfully wild jumps :D
So. How many people does a team have before somebody starts writing validation tests for the gui?
At least 1
I know a few startups with one or two people, and they don't have validation tests for their GUIs...
@Mikhail is this one of those hypothetical questions?
@Mikhail startups aren't exactly famous for best practice
@Mikhail you're supposed to do that from the get go
@Mikhail They also have lots of regressions
Ven
Ven
21:03
never write GUI tests
too complex
instead skip writing GUIs and spend the time to write shit articles about JS best practices on medium dot com
@Ven I'm going to take over Robert Martin's job, and write about best practices for how to create an interconnected network of no fewer than 17 classes and 14 interfaces to have the user enter a number.
@JerryCoffin So what design patterns are you going to employ?
21:41
@ScarletAmaranth It's best to make up new ones for each lecture, so everybody has to pay to keep up with the latest trends.
21:54
@Ven do I remorselessly (ab)use gather/take for inverted control flows?
22:19
For of you who are following the shitstorm on meta, you might've missed this since it was downvoted off the front page:
-50
Q: Stack Overflow is not a welcoming site! When will the community accept that and can we fast track some changes?

Yvette ColombWhat's happening? There's a plethora of posts on Stack Overflow Meta as a result of the latest blog. They're not hard to find, have a look. Is Stack Overflow really racist/sexist? By saying Stack Overflow is racist/sexist he’s saying that I am racist/sexist, which offends me deeply. And he’...

Oh and uh... make sure you view the 1st revision of the question as well...
Ven
Ven
22:37
@LucDanton Yes!
The only reason we have gather/take instead of actual coroutines is because "too hard on the JVM", anyway :-P.
I'll just roll with it
jrh
jrh
@JerryCoffin Don't forget the most important part, at the end say "This development strategy works for every situation, and if you later find it hard to understand / maintain, you probably just implemented it wrong" without giving any real practical examples.
Ven
Ven
@LucDanton How have you been liking our "dark & dirty", scripting side?
@Ven ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°), but let’s stick to Perl 6
22:58
@Mysticial The last sentence is the best part: "I'm going to do my best to start a huge fight, then disappear, instead of taking any chance of contributing anything constructive."
o/ Just a very quick question for anyone around and who knows anything about it. I'm writing my honours dissertation and need to know if PBKDF2 is still secure, I've seen a number of posts on SO and InfoSec, but most seem pretty dated, anybody know much about it?
@JerryCoffin It makes me feel that moderator elections are almost a joke. As a constituent, there's no way you can possibly make an informed decision on candidates. This type of confrontational behavior is something that would come out early in say a US presidential election. But of course we can't go to those lengths for SO elections.
It used to be better. But ever since they took out comment voting during elections, it makes it very difficult to bring up issues for candidates.
23:18
@NickA Seems safe so far, if you choose enough iterations?
@wilx Thought that was the case, but better to check, thanks for the reassurance
@NickA Don't cite me! :)
@wilx Ha Right-o
To give you some idea of the thing I was attempting to fix when using PBKDF2, passwords were being stored using a method identical to this: github.com/tobiashasslebrant/PasswordProtector/blob/master/…
@Mysticial Yeah, I dunno. The part I find disheartening is that both the blog post, and this post seem to be saying that we can make a big difference without lowering quality standards, but neither seems willing to tell us what that would actually be/look like. About the only suggestion I've seen is: "don't be mean/rude in comments", which is fine but unenforceable and (I think) mostly pointless.
Most posts I've seen reddit, quora, etc. complaining about SO pointed specifically at questions that were either unanswerable, or else people felt insulted when they were told that their duplicate question was a duplicate.
@JerryCoffin That's probably because SE itself doesn't know what it would actually be like.
23:26
@Mysticial ...and that's fine--if they admit that they're hoping for input into how to make things better. But they all seem to be written with a tone saying: "I know how to make it all better", but then either don't suggest anything at all, or give the same tired old suggestions about limiting comments and/or chat, as if either of those hadn't been discussed to death and clearly shown ineffective already.
@NickA There are a few known weaknesses. Argon2 is supposed to work around the known ones. github.com/P-H-C/phc-winner-argon2
@JerryCoffin Useful to know, thanks a lot
@NickA At least as I see things, switching from pbkdf2 to something else isn't an emergency, but I wouldn't use it in new code anymore.
@JerryCoffin Great, I'll get on researching that
23:41
@Mgetz Whats the actual process for testing in shops that do Qt? How can you even write validation tests without the GUI elements in place. Honestly, I'm curious wtf people do.
@Mysticial I think they started a problem where non-existed.The site could keep running fine, and they have a massive potential to monetize from things like job boards, spin-off projects. I really suspect Jay Hanlon had nothing better to do with his time. I mean, if he did nothing, he wouldn't get paid right?
@Mysticial Also all the solutions to fix SO are really good. Its a shame none of them will be taken.
@Mikhail I suspect they've seen posts (and they certainly do happen) elsewhere complaining about SO/SE, looked at the post-#metoo political climate, and thought it would be a good thing (i.e., more profitable) to work at being more welcoming and inclusive. They have a fundamental problem: they still want us to provide them with free answers, but they want to do even more of what's driven most of us away.
I'm amused that racism got conflated with #metoo
Without SO, how swill we cope with soul crushing compile times?
@Mikhail TBH, unnecessarily bringing in racism to win an argument doesn't feel any different from invoking Godwin's Law.
Also we make a library called Intel TBH, that uses ML to predict bullshit
Then propose a successor that is deprecated after a few years
@Mikhail Everybody who feels left out, picked on, ignored, condescended to, or hurt in any other way tries (and usually succeeds to some extent) to conflate themselves with whatever "minority" currently has a particularly visible and obviously legitimate gripe. It's the "metoo" to the "#metoo" movement... :-)
In this case, "minority" in quotes because regardless of how they're treated, from a numerical viewpoint, women are actually a majority.
23:57
@JerryCoffin thats a nice argument
@Mikhail Interstellar had the answer: "One hour here is seven years on earth." "Good. We'll wait here while the code compiles."

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