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03:59
@JerryCoffin :^)
04:33
Whats everybody working on?
needs more memes
04:53
@Mikhail Writing a lab report for my OS class.
you can cite this chat as a source
@Mikhail is the holy programmer sitting on a toilet hole?
can't tell from this distance
freaking convenient, pizza, beer, computer in a van while sitting on a reclinable toilet
pretty disgusting but convenient if lazy
TempleOS (formerly J Operating System, SparrowOS and LoseThos) is a biblical-themed lightweight operating system created in the span of a decade by the American programmer Terry A. Davis. The software is a x86-64 bit, multi-tasking, multi-cored, public domain, open source, ring-0-only, single address space, non-networked, PC operating system for recreational programming. The operating system was designed to be the Third Temple according to Davis and uses an interface similar to a mixture of DOS and Turbo C. Davis describes the operating system as a modern x86-64 Commodore 64 with a variation of...
 
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oh thanks i didnt know that was a thing lol
 
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10:44
yesterday I tried to replace std::decay by remove_cvref wherever I could to avoid useless work
I ended up replacing almost every std::decay
 
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12:50
why is vi in raspberry pi so weird?
or do I need to modify vimrc file?
@TelautonomousKitty Define "vi in R Pi"? Does it equal "the version of vi that comes bundled in the OS that is preinstalled on the R Pi"?
vim seems to be pretty standardized across other linux distributions ...
 
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14:29
@Mikhail funny literally the first thing in every stdafx.h I put after WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN is NOMINMAX to stop that exact macro
 
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16:29
@TelautonomousKitty iirc it's actually vi, not vim with an alias for vi to launch vim
vi and vim are different things
 
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19:31
I'm just too fast :) — sehe 14 secs ago
20:41
@Morwenn this breaks msvc support with no apparent advantage
21:01
@Mikhail that is, however, the not-as-apparent advantage
@LucDanton did you want to tell me something about the relation between (infinite) range concepts and stateful nullaries?
well we certainly had some things to discuss
:) I'm still interested
how familiar are you with the distinction between internal iteration vs external iteration?
21:16
not at all, on first prompt
I'm guessing the stateful functors make it resemble something "with" internal iteration. But that's a guess
@sehe no need to guess, we’ll ease into it. plus it’s more of a fuzzy, intuitive distinction than something concrete (but that’s my opinion)
if you’ll allow me to summarise the premise: you find yourself doing one thing over and over again—namely separating elements—so as the good programmer you are you find yourself wanting to factor that away
in doing so you find yourself asking what kind of thing exactly it is that you are refactoring, and where it should belong in general and if it it a range kinda deal in particular
Yup
then I can put to you one test to help you figure things out
do you want to pass separated elements to someone else as in e.g. give_me_things(sep_with(rng, ' '))
or do you want to e.g. process separated things as in the loops you wrote in your post
my perspective is that the former is definitively range territory, but that the second need not be
I think my loops didn't process separated things. But maybe I can shift my perspective
what I had in mind is the for(…) std::cout << sep() << elem; kind of stuff
21:26
@LucDanton Hah. That's funny, because iterating separated things would, in my view, clearly "smell like" range stuff (haskell's intersperse comes to mind)
@LucDanton Yeah. So, I have a sequence of stuff, and the result is basically an altered sequence with some kind of (composite) "rhythm" or cadence to it.
yes indeed, you are changing the pattern of consumption
Superficial difference would be that the input is usually a container, and the output is usually a stream, but they need not be.
that is, the 'plainest' way to consume a range is e.g. for(auto&& elem: rng) process(elem);
@LucDanton Basically.
and you can write a range-to-range feature that allows you to do for(auto&& elem: sep_with(rng, '\n')) process(elem);
or write a feature to customise the loop
it’s two separate things, which separately appear on their own merits but are 'conjoined' by the fact that the raison d’être of ranges is to ultimately be consumed in a loop
and of course I should probably justify my claim that they have their own merits :)
21:34
My curiosity peaks at the question whether there are "proven" set of primitives that allow "nice" composition of these.
One gritty issue with these is the choice what would make more sense e.g. to format with 5 comma-separated columns per line: It could be intersperse(',', each(5, '\n')) - but how would you make the inner each "reset" the state of intersperse each new line?
I think the range one is the easiest, since I assume you are already convinced and aware of the convenience of composing range functions e.g. some_callee_somewhere(map(func, sep_with(filter(pred, rng), '&')))
My mind fails to reproduce the alternative I had in mind (probably picked the wrong example), but this already is a good example for discussion
@LucDanton Actually, I think I'd need something like sep_with(rng, each_n(5, '\n', each_n(1, ','))
@sehe hang on to that for an instant, did you notice that I put the sep_with call in the middle of the stack so to speak?
Yes
that’s important cos when I say 'composition of range functions' it’s not just in a syntactic sense, the idea of course is that the result is sensible: we give the user means to express new kind of ranges
@sehe now to switch back to your thread, what’s each meant to be in your examples? for smart kw-like arguments?
21:39
The thing is, I can already do that. But it'd fail for anything more complex/composite. I may want output like
a,b
c,d
instead of
a,b,
c,d,
or even
@sehe bear with me I’m being Socratic for the time being :)
a,b
,c,d
,
lol @ chat throttling me
it knows you are trying to send it into a comma
@LucDanton The point is, I'd decide once I know a pattern that allows the internally-dependent stateful "range manipulators"
I mean I don’t understand your syntax, are the each* functions their own things? what are they for?
21:43
I think I'd actually need a layout range adaptor that takes a compound_logic thing. So, to answer my own question about "am I reinventing a range library" I'd say: no, but I'm trying to design a "composable logic /thing/"
@LucDanton ^
@sehe yes indeed, and I have something to join the two threads together
:ears-up:
in your post you have a very clever if(a) std::cout << sep() << a; if(b) std::cout << sep() << b;
it’s very clever because it showcases the literal savings from refactoring the separator logic, at least in terms of e.g. amount of code
Indeed. Glad you noticed the point of that sample
and at the same time it’d be hard to express the same kind of thing with range functions
^^^ that’s the tricky part
21:49
Yes. That's not very rangey. It'd be an output-iterator-adaptor of sorts
Excellent point. I realize I tried to capture that by picking that example, but it didn't consciously register in my own head :)
and at the same time it’s hard to say why it’s hard to express with range functions, save for talking about implementation details (with state being a recurring topic)
now if you’ll give me a moment to build a demo
Yes. In all of my application ideas it's an "output decoration" thing, and the state belongs to the output part of the chain, not the input part.
The point might even be to mix several inputs, at random, and "pour" them all down the same output logic.
(Of course, the input mixing part could be expressed as range combinatorics, but that's all "old tech" and many proven approaches seem to exist, so let's not focus too much on that.)
@jaggedSpire Almost too much awesomeness for words! :-)
@Mikhail how does it break MSVC support?
22:08
@LucDanton Don't spend too much time on my behalf. I'll have to come back later. Feel free to post at the CR question.
@sehe can’t rush it, it’s a process
@LucDanton ikr :) I'll look at it and tell you what part I almost understand tomorrow
take care
mmh I somehow managed to mix the holes with the pegs, oh well can’t be bothered to fix it
22:23
@JerryCoffin ^_^
 
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23:30
missing
C++20
P0550R2
remove_cvref
I implemented it manually of course
on the other hand I don't support MSVC anyway for a shitton of other reasons, including but not limited to ICEs and overload resolution problems
and also using not without including <ciso646>, which won't work without /permissive- or an equivalent option :p
@thecoshman Oo ... maybe I should install vim instead
lol, you can write array<:5:>
deprecated ??( 5??)
who thought this was a good idea?
weird, according to documentation, vi on raspberry should act as normal
but I am pretty sure it doesn't in my case
anyways installed vim and vim-gnome

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