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12:02 AM
I can add knitting to the list of skills I acquired in my life
 
12:23 AM
@Mysticial ...or not: "A large enough mix of Intel AVX-512 light instructions and Intel AVX2 heavy instructions drives the core to request License 2, despite the fact that they usually map to License 1."
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix it appeals to the programming mind I think
 
I don't know, I was wondering how hard it would be to make a machine to knit. The ones peoples seems to use are terrible
I checked a couple of videos and I understand why most machine makes a lot of noise and often seems to lock (no fluid movement)
 
some of the knitting stitches can get quite complex
 
Looks like we all have 280 now. Sweet! -Paul This tweet is solely for the confidential use of the recipient. This message contains confidential and proprietary information that may not be read, searched, distributed or otherwise used by anyone other than the intended recipient.
 
It really depends on the patterns you need while enabling some needles.
Doing it by hand is a pain
 
12:30 AM
Use lotion
 
I don't have the patience to do that.
 
Apple is trying very hard to prank their customers, but they keep buying it
 
dilemma
no dilemma
it's way too expensive
just buy a brick
 
Hello there
 
I have a simple solution:
stop dropping your phone
 
12:33 AM
it's not a solution, it's a recommendation at most
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix just buy 5 or six nice Huaweis
 
I can get like 10 ZTE for that price probably
 
@milleniumbug That doesn't remove any risk.
 
I need to trade in my old phones before they further decline in value ...
 
I already don't drop my phone. Still phone breakability/durability is an interest of mine.
 
12:34 AM
@sehe some people simply sit on them
 
I drop my phone all the times
 
@Telkitty Throw in the ellipses for free ...
@Telkitty all the failing Times
 
Mine simply fell by itself
 
Know your epithets
 
My phones are tough, like me </shameless_self_promotion>
 
12:35 AM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Damn vibrations are getting wild
 
The best alarm clock
May be people should tell Apple the vibration caused the phone to fall
So apple should design phone that vibrate but don't move
They could even create new marketing name like "HyperSpace vibrator"
 
12:55 AM
@sehe name of your sex tape
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, I noticed that later. I've haven't hit that case since it's rare to mix like that. Code is usually one or the other.
But based on the design of the ports/execution units, I can see why that would be the case.
 
decided to add a feature a day before a major experiment, now I can't go home
 
@Mysticial Yeah--I s'pose it could arise if you had a big chunk of AVX2 code and cherry picked a few AVX 512 instructions that happened to be particularly useful, but it sure doesn't seem like something you'd see very often.
 
1:38 AM
I actually can't think of a legitimate use case of mixing 256-bit FP AVX and 512-bit integer AVX512.
Maybe if you had different function calls written by different parties that got inlined into the same place.
 
@Mysticial Yeah, the most obvious would almost certainly be to interleave a couple of (mostly) unrelated instruction streams in the hope of maximizing IPC (but I'd have to re-check port usage to be at all sure this would stand any chance of doing much/any good).
 
@JerryCoffin They all share the same ports.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial hey, did you watch NGNL0 in theaters yet?
 
The mechanism I suspect that's in play here is that there are multiple (conflicting) SIMD modes that the core can be in.
1. In 256-bit mode: It can run FP instructions on two ports. No 512-bit instructions.
2. In 512-bit mode (license 1): It can 512-bit AVX. But only only FP instructions on 1 port.
3. In 512-bit mode (license 2): It can run any sized FP or integer on two ports.
Code that consists only of 256-bit FP instructions will run in mode 1.
Code that consists only of 512-bit integer will run in mode 2.
Neither of those modes are optimal for both workloads. So the processor drops down to mode 3.
@Xeo wut
 
Xeo
did you completely miss it? There were select screenings of the sub and dub a couple weeks ago, and new some more on the 11th in the US.
also HF part1 soon
 
 
1 hour later…
2:55 AM
@LucDanton >rifle
>elixir gun
is this 2012
 
some linux commands have not changed for more than 30 years ...
 
@Xeo w0t
there's a NGNL movie?!
 
Xeo
3:15 AM
yes?
 
 
5 hours later…
8:01 AM
@Telkitty some prime numbers have not changed for over a million years ...
fun fact ...
these utilities use ellipses meaningfully ...
0
Q: What does the ellipsis (...) mean in man pages

PunjCoderI was reading the ln man page and came across the following SYNOPSIS. ln [-Ffhinsv] source_file ... target_dir What does symbol ... above mean?

Good morning, @Flexo
 
morning fellow loungers
 
@sehe ...
 
8:22 AM
@sehe Hey polar bear
Did you have any other critiques for that pull request you were looking at?
@Rerito Good evening!
 
8:33 AM
VLAs got rejected once again
 
@Morwenn y?
 
@VermillionAzure Too many problems with the type system, as always
 
Free mini pig needs new home
I read somewhere that there is no such thing as mini pig
you get a poodle sized 'mini pig', in 3 years time, you end up with a 100kg monster
 
@Morwenn mmm I see
dependent typing?
 
More like you can't you sizeof on it, you can't use decltype on it IIRC, it's mandated to work with range-based for but you can't call begin and end on it, etc...
 
8:45 AM
@Telkitty Wow. 1789 is the most surprising prime I've spotted in a long time.
 
Plus it has all the problems the regular arrays have (can't take reference to it, etc...)
 
"regular arrays" are some of the most irregular things in the language
template <typename T, size_t N> using irregular_array = T[N];
template <typename T, size_t N> using regular_array = std::array<T, N>;
@Xeo nice to see you again. Prepping for meeting c++ or some other reason?
 
Xeo
I'm always lurking here.
But no, no Meeting C++ for me this year :(
 
Me neither
 
lurking in this room is pretty amusing actually
lots of unexpected links pop up from time to time :)
 
8:58 AM
Range Adaptors and Utilities moving on as another piece of the Ranges TS
 
9:10 AM
Ouch. I just figured out why I couldn't build lld. I'm using cygwin on windows. By default, cygwin uses case insensitive filenames. Some files lld uses have #include <cstring>, which has #include <string.h>, which has a #include <strings.h>. In building these cpp files for lld, there's also some -I options passed to llvm dirs. One of these directories has a Strings.h. Instead of including that cygwin implementation file strings.h, it includes this Strings.h.
 
Thank you, that was exactly what I needed. — user7431005 1 min ago
I don't remember pressing the "Whip someone's ass" button
 
9:42 AM
__has_include accepted for C2X
C is algo getting rid of ATOMIC_VAR_INIT apparently
> Decide to add new material to C17 in addition to Technical Corrigenda from DRs.
Oh, so C17 might actually gain a few goodies this year
 
nwp
10:22 AM
I wonder if it makes sense to replace #ifdef __linux with if constexpr(__linux).
On one hand it doesn't make a difference, on the other along with modules it removes some frequent uses of the preprocessor.
If we get an alternative to header guards and #pragma once there may be hope to remove it completely.
 
@nwp modules?
 
nwp
Right, modules already make that obsolete.
I should have known, modules solve all problems.
 
@Morwenn will __has_include(__FILE__) work?
the new header guard in case #pragma once never gets standardized
 
@ratchetfreak lol
 
though it does require the semantics of only becoming true after it's been processed in its entirety
 
so it won't guard against recursive includes
 
nwp
@nwp Except I can't because struct S { if constexpr(__linux) float fp; else double fp; }; doesn't compile.
Someone should invent using FP = __linux ? float : double;.
 
using FP = std::conditional_t<__linux, float, double>;
 
nwp
Oh. I'm just dumb. Something something excuse.
 
nwp
10:34 AM
Wait, that doesn't actually work, because on windows __linux is not 0, it just doesn't exist.
 
Then if constexpr wouldn't work either x)
 
nwp
Which is basically a duplicate of the __int128 check. Maybe they should make the existence of tokens sfinae detectable or invent a compiler magic std::token_exists<foobar>::value.
I guess I can use #if __linux constexpr bool linux = true;, but that doesn't seem worth it.
constexpr bool linux =
#if __linux
	true
#else
	false
#endif
	;
Why does minimizing code duplication tend to minimize readability too?
4
 
Ell
10:55 AM
@nwp how does it?
In the general case
 
nwp
I have no clue how to even begin arguing about general code.
It's just anecdotal evidence with enough cases that makes me wonder if there is some more general rule behind it.
 
Ell
I guess the less duplication, the more general
And more general means less context?
 
Ven
@nwp oh my god
 
nwp
For the specific example of the constexpr bool linux it makes it so much easier to just put the whole expression there twice than to split it over 7 lines.
 
you’ll need an #ifdef sooner than later
 
nwp
11:07 AM
Maybe it's that general code naturally has to cover more cases than code for a specific case and therefore is more complicated.
The multiple specific cases are longer in total, but you can see them one by one which makes the cognitive load lighter, especially when you are only interested in a specific case anyways.
 
user784668
12:02 PM
@nwp And how would that parse?
 
user784668
It would need to be a keyword, really.
 
nwp
@Fanael Same as everything else. As long as foobar is a valid identifier name the parser should have no problem with it.
 
12:53 PM
must need strong magnetic field
because:
 
user784668
1:48 PM
@Mysticial We discovered that behavior empirically, didn't we?
 
2:14 PM
Synchronized Buffered Ostream should land into C++20
 
throw new AbstractSingletonTransactionAwareStatelessPersistenceManagerServiceProviderResourceDependencyInstanceInterceptorAspectFactoryFactoryProxyBeanStrategyBuilderLocator.PersistenceAnnotationManagerFactoryInvocationDispatcherHandlerProcessorDefinitionInstantiationException();
2
Proof that Twitter's 280-char limit is good for emancipation
 
sounds like Java
 
@Ell In the general case it would happen because code is broken down to smaller particles than humans can keep mentally organized/still understand in context
 
@sehe Proof that Java has gone off the deep end in design patterns because the language overlimits you
 
It solves no problem, @gnat. The site is for helping. If I discover a question in my particular niche after a day, and it was accidentally ban-hammered to something else, why would the OP have to wait extra? If 100k rep users cannot be trusted to do this responsibly, that means the banhammer feature should be axed instead. — sehe 17 secs ago
Man. People don't logic. And more so on meta.
 
2:54 PM
Please don't. Optiver is not supporting Meeting C++ as a sponsor in 2017! https://twitter.com/OptiverEurope/status/928269052983648257
Oh god. Jens is having gaffe, methinks
 
Haha, that's pretty rude x)
 
@meetingcpp Being negative to former/potential future sponsors seems to be a mistake to me.
 
Yeah, I've already read that one :p
 
3:46 PM
 
4:09 PM
I'm tired of straw men. "Not seeing the use and seeing downsides" (both articulated and supported with arguments) is "unwillingness to wait"? Ok, I guess. @gnat. And being given "a way to post things" is hardly a special privilege (anyone and their dog can post answers). Again, if it's about "excess privilege" then the logical thing to do is to drop the dupe-hammer feature. That makes a lot of sense (I don't really know why I need the hammer. Voting works fine, on average) — sehe 29 secs ago
 
4:24 PM
> Attributes are only appropriate if they satisfy the guideline: "Compiling a valid program with all instances of a particular attribute ignored must result in a correct implementation of the original program?" 5 | 14 | 5 | 1 | 0
Fuck yeah, at least they're starting to get this right :o
 
@Fanael Yeah, when we tested your crypto snippet.
I still have yet to properly test the case where code that is mostly "light" 512-bit code with a sparse amount of "heavy" instructions stays in license level 1 (AVX) instead of dropping down to level 2 (AVX512).
 
5:03 PM
Oh god, I just found something, a major security issue
it's even worse that I thought the first time
So everytime someones logs in, the password is saved in cleartext in memory in a globally available object
the api technically check for private parameters and try to escape them in eval calls but the simple fact that they're using eval almost everywhere in the code base it's purely idiotic
 
that's only an issue if you can run your own python script in the same context
well for easy penetration at least, the normal memory used for private data is a real issue but harder to exploit
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix first thing you don't do when you find a security issue: announce it in a public place. Instead you find a the security team/developer and message them privately
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix techspot.com/news/…
 
@Mgetz nah, the problem is that they have already an issue on that matter on the project. The answer was pretty much "As designed, will not fix"
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix hmm they are really dumb
@Mysticial and people ask why the US government requires that all security sensitive hardware is manufactured in the US.
 
5:13 PM
@Mgetz and people in the us won't put that in?
 
nwp
Only for exported hardware.
 
@ratchetfreak tbh most people in the US don't have access to that hardware, but there is a reason that Intel has fabs in the US and Germany for government contracts
 
@ratchetfreak nah, the thing is a global and possibly passwords lives accross requests as it's stored in a local thread. Passwords are also stored in a pickled session database on the hard drive... All of this in clear text of course.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix and people wonder why salesforce does a thriving business
they appear to have missed the first rule of authentication: don't write it yourself
 
@Mgetz even if you write it yourself it's hard to make it that bad
As I understand most of the codebase was developped at low cost by indians.
 
5:22 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix there are sooooo many oauth modules for python it's not even funny
 
@Mgetz Although this would probably be taken as "the unsollicited code review". It probably won't help a bit unless you pack a demo exploit. Devs tend to have high hubris and great incentive to maintain their superior persona inside the company/project
 
even one from google directly for use with their APIs
 
@nwp If you need evidence of that, just look at the Java Spring Framework.
 
@sehe at this point I'm kind of willing to do that, by I feel they'd just fix the security hole instead of the root of the problem
 
@sehe honestly if a company/app is known to not meet NIST password guidelines they are opening themselves up for a negligence lawsuit
I suspect even Europe would concur that NIST is generally a good minimum viable implementation reference
 
user1804599
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Needs the sandwhich approach then InfoSec: "You need security review because of structural issues like X, Y, Z", A: "Oh we're fine, we know what we're doing", InfoSec: "No do you don't: DEMO". A: "foot-in-mouth: okay, maybe we should have a security review"
@Mgetz Very good point. One best made by a security reviewer, perhaps :)
 
@sehe I'm not into foot fetish
 
@rightfold 11 oktober is al geweest hè? Die van dit jaar trouwens ook.
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix That's ok, I'm not sure I'd be motivated to do this whole dog-and-pony show. Perhaps if I were paid for security review
 
5:46 PM
Sad thing is my work is mainly dependent on this and we can't really tell all our clients that the thing we sell suck and we should redo everything
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix well.... not sure what to say as I'm probably a direct competitor of yours
 
@Mgetz which platform?
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Salesforce, I work for a subsidiary of IBM
 
Ah, that's funny. I heard about one of our possible client that might want business with IBM. IBM made a quote to around ~$2.5M.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix depends on who gave them the quote, we are considered expensive but having seen our competitors code... we're worth it. Quite a lot of our business is people balking at our price, getting someone crappy to do it, then having us fix it for a lot more than they were quoted in the first place.
 
5:52 PM
Sadly I can't even disagree
We're even considering at some point forking the project because issues like those don't get resolved
 
I have to be careful what I say because it's more complicated than that
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix if salesforce can securely store credentials and make certificate authenticated callouts there is no reason that code base couldn't
but yeah... if you're going to continue to consult on that... I'd very seriously consider forking
 
the only reason it can't is that the people managing the core project don't care about anything except money
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix neither strictly speaking does salesforce, the core group of execs came from Oracle... but they recognize that putting their customers at risk is the exact opposite of what brings in business
it's hard to convince people to trust the cloud
 
They're slowly removing modules from the community code base to the enterprise code base... And honestly the enterprise code base is also a clusterfuck of weird things
 
@Mgetz I wonder how that works for stuff like processors. IIRC, Intel makes pretty much all it's chips overseas.
 
5:56 PM
and if anything undermined that they'd be royally $#!^ed
 
And even iPhones are all assembled outside the US.
 
@Mysticial IIRC they have a small fab that makes processors for defense in Arizona, apple does too. The chips cost a couple thousand a piece and never get to the consumer market
 
And no matter how much Trump says he wants them to come back to the US, economics simply won't let that happen.
 
not for consumer or business no
people are not going to pay 3k for a 2.1ghz celeron
 
@Mgetz ah
 
5:58 PM
@Mgetz yeah this reminds me one thing, our job is particular because if our product fail to work, this can completely prevent clients from doing business. Like invoice that don't get printed.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix we've implemented projects like that for clients
or supported them
but thus far the various Conga/Docusign/Echosign providers out there have yet to have an issue
honestly I'd love to get away from working on salesforce
 
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
 
it's more my passion is native code and performance, salesforce is none of those things
 
6:14 PM
lets all be honest and admit we want @Mysticial to start a lab we can work at. This assumes of course that they'd be willing to hire any of us.
 
6:33 PM
@sehe (rather late here) - hi
 
6:52 PM
@Flexo hehe I never realized you actually might live in your namesake :)
 
I know this is Assembly, but anyone know what cmp 0x8(%ebp),%eax is doing?
 
18
Q: What happened with the Stack Overflow layoffs?

Robert GrantI'm curious as to why Stack Exchange laid off 20% of its staff, and crucially why is there a discrepancy between the PR statement "we cut sales and marketing" and the apparently reality of lots of developers announcing on Twitter they'd been laid off. Given the amount of time people invest in cr...

^^ woah
 
The case in which a question really was closed in error as a dupe, and the reopener really can answer the question in a non-dupe way is significant enough not to overlook here. I get the intention behind this, but I feel like it's a very, very heavy-handed approach for something which really isn't that big of a deal. ("Not that big of a deal" in the sense of, "there really aren't a lot of users who have this power and are abusing it.) — Makoto 24 mins ago
Finally, another voice of reason
@Mysticial did you miss that on twitter?
 
@sehe Yes, because I'm not logged into twitter at work. So I don't usually see anything on my feed until I get home.
 
@Mysticial It happened since ~2 november; of course I don't know how often you get home
 
6:58 PM
@sehe Oh. Come to think of it, I don't see a lot of SE on my twitter feed. It's mostly Anime and cosplay spam from Fiora and company. So I easily could've missed it.
And a lot of computer stuff.
I just scrolled through it on my phone. There's nothing in the top 100-ish that says anything about this. It's all political retweets from last night's elections.
 
@Mysticial I must admit it hasn't been high profile, but I remember seeing it (everything quite descent and calm, much unlike twitter)
 
7:38 PM
> Four interns are brought into Fog Creek Software's Manhattan office and given 12 weeks to design, develop, debug and ship a computer program that will, among other things, help millions of frustrated users fix their relatives computers via the internet. Boondoggle Films presents a journey through the world of software development from the perspective of a unique software startup, four quirky interns, and the world of the geek.
 
8:18 PM
hmpfh
Scales like F#/Gb major existing annoy me
 
Wow. I wonder whether composite numbers annoy you too
 
@sehe kinda :)
context: I'm working on my theory notes
trying to neatly sum up music theory always ends up badly :S
but hey at least I can now quickly establish that for a given mixolydian mode the 7th chord with the root at the tonic will be the dominant 7th!
2
which reminds me that I should make lookup tables for all scale steps for all modes
FOR ALL ROOTS
I wonder how am I going to print a 3D table
 
8:54 PM
@BartekBanachewicz there's no way to sum it up: music, like natural language, will always remain descriptivist. What's the goal here?
Use elements of music theory as a palette, not as a formal framework
 
@sehe I'm organizing my notes
in printable and readable format
 
That sounds like a drudgy operation
@BartekBanachewicz Exists
@BartekBanachewicz Like a cryptex
 
@sehe yeah that's what making notes usually is
 
What's the goal :)
 
@sehe making a short reference tailored for my use
it's like a school notebook
 
8:57 PM
I know all the modes. I have to mentally image it in order to answer trivia, but I can here the moods/spices of many chords.
And then there is the many points-of-view leading to many equivalent ways to name the same horse.
 
yeah but you're almost a professional
and I suck
so I need tables because otherwise it takes me ages to find the simplest stuff
and obviously I'd like to not need what I'm just making one day
 
@BartekBanachewicz (I'd never ever refer to the fifth step in a myxolidian scale as such. It be very rare for me to even bother with functional harmony if the whole starting point was modality)
 
I hope that having notes that I personally will use often and easily will facilitate that
 
@BartekBanachewicz What do you need to find it for.
 
@sehe yeah that was a dumb example, I'd never build a harmony on a mode
@sehe "let's play I-IV-V in F"
such a simple thing leaves me completely lost
 
9:00 PM
Just take 1, to, max 3 flavours and jam. Once you do, for a week or maybe longer, replace 1 and continue to jam. After a while, you can recognize/hit the stuff without thinking about it. Best part: the useless cruft doesn't take your time.
 
and now I immediately know it's F/Bb/C because I have my neat table
 
@BartekBanachewicz Nothing to with myxolidian, because the de-facto assumption is Ionian
@BartekBanachewicz I immediately know it because I've played it enough.
 
2 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
and obviously I'd like to not need what I'm just making one day
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh sorry for defeating your point redundantly :) I saw it just now
@BartekBanachewicz I'd say skipping it now is the best way to ensure you can do without tomorrow.
 
@sehe I'd like to point out that me making those notes and organizing them has already helped me get a lot into my head
 
9:01 PM
Same thing goes for playing without real/fake books
@BartekBanachewicz Okay. That's a good goal. But don't try to make it a Grand Theory Of Everything.
Just treat it as a way to actively regurgitate some concepts.
My stance is usually to basically stop as soon as I find something that sparks my creative bone.
 
@sehe Nah, that would be too unwieldy to use anyway
right now I'm at 7 A4 pages
I'd say 20 would be an absolute maximum
@sehe yeah, putting stuff in tables manually has been a great exercise actually
anyway it's on github, but requires a web server to view (anything serving statics will do)
 
@BartekBanachewicz And channels like youtube.com/user/havic5, or youtube.com/user/pegzch help me pick up new inspirations. For somewhat more intro-level info there's youtube.com/user/NolteFam - I bet there are good sources for guitarists too (the one I know is a bit too nerdy, perhaps: youtube.com/user/nimajqeb)
 
nevermind I'm dumb
so yeah Adam's stuff I watch the most often
 
9:18 PM
@sehe does this sound awesome?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I was surprised that the channel id wasn't AdamNeely or so too :)
@JohanLarsson In what respect? In the sense of "Embedded could be a lot worse" I think it qualifies as "Fair, to the point, ambitious". But in the sense of concrete projects, I'm not too sure I'd like it. So many hard-cast constraints.
 
Ok, I did not know enough to ask an actual question.
 
9:45 PM
@johnregehr @path1ckey Nothing to do with magic optimization passes: just intrinsics replacing malloc/free: https://godbolt.org/g/1YfZGT (-fno-builting-malloc)
Regehr comes up with the best shit
 

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