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00:54
also fuck the central limit theorem
In probability theory, the normal (or Gaussian) distribution is a very common continuous probability distribution. Normal distributions are important in statistics and are often used in the natural and social sciences to represent real-valued random variables whose distributions are not known. The normal distribution is useful because of the central limit theorem. In its most general form, under some conditions (which include finite variance), it states that averages of samples of observations of random variables independently drawn from independent distributions converge in distribution to the...
tells us there are more normal people than weirdos (at both ends)
@Telkitty Only if "weirdo" really comes from combining a number of (more or less) independent variables.
weirdos don't? :p
May I inquire who came up with the new slogan? [expr.spaceship]. it is kinda funny
14 hours ago, by Luc Danton
> Add a new section 8.9 [expr.spaceship] before the existing 5.9 [expr.rel]:
13 hours ago, by sehe
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Add a new section §8.9 [expr.spaceship] before the existing §5.9 [expr.rel] [c++] [c++11] [c++14] [c++17] [c++-faq]
01:10
@milleniumbug Yhanks for the extra funny.
I still don’t know how 8.9 is supposed to come before 5.9
@LucDanton Oh, my funny bone read that as time travel.
that’s for timeships only!
> py.name
"python3-3.6.2-env"
> py.isPy35
true
I’m sure there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation
01:17
@sehe Nice, I guess it makes sense though since that means the built in ones were easier to write as well
 
1 hour later…
02:37
A midget submarine (also called a mini submarine) is any submarine under 150 tons. Typically operated by a crew of one or two but sometimes up to 6 or 9, with little or no on-board living accommodation, they normally work with mother ships, from which they are launched and recovered, and which provide living accommodation for the crew and other support staff. Both military and civilian midget submarines have been built. Military types work with surface ships and other submarines as mother ships. Civilian and non-combatant military types are generally called submersibles, and normally work with...
TIL there is such a thing ...
02:54
> Fixed a client crash caused by Raise Spectre if it was in the unique body armour Soul Mantle, and if your Tukohama's Vanguard Spectre then tried to place a Scorching Ray totem.
if only they had had 100% test coverage
 
2 hours later…
04:40
Currently, I am using NetBeans IDE. Should I switch to visual studio?
@Pouya That depends on how well you like Netbeans. If you dislike it, then sure, it might be worth trying VS. If you do like it, then it might be worth trying methadone instead of the heroin you're apparently now using. :-)
@JerryCoffin so are you trying to say they are both strong or they are bad? I just want to know what is used by more involved enthusiasts
05:01
@Pouya Liking VS is an acquired taste. Liking Netbeans is an acquired lack of taste. Enthusiasts use everything from Vim to emacs to VS to VS Code to a gazillion others. Why do you care? Find a text editor that you find comfortable, and run with it.
5
@JerryCoffin sounds fair. will definitely mess around with all of them to find one i prefer.
also depends on what are doing
if writing simple programs both are fine
@Telkitty currently I'm in college. taking data structures next semester. as of now i am just doing OOP
05:15
@Pouya Especially at first, you're mostly working on small projects in small files. As long as you can edit a file, you're set. Yes, some people get wound up about the increased efficiency from keeping your fingers on the home row most of the time, others about extra programmability, and so on--but for your course, you probably don't need to care. Typing/editing speed mostly becomes an issue when you're doing things you already know how to do pretty easily, so thinking isn't the bottleneck.
 
1 hour later…
06:35
0
Q: Why shouldn't I use the statement "using namespace std"?

VedantWhy is that many books and articles suggest that one should never use the statement using namespace std; instead do std::cout, whereas writing the latter is recommended, but writing the former saves a lot of time though

06:57
-4
Q: What Is The Point Of Constants And Static Variables In C++

PokemonFanboy666I am a c++ programmer and have to ask this, why do we use constants, I was told constants are not changeable, but my program compiles and runs correctly when I issue a change to a constant variable(in my case, a const char *), so I thought ok ill try using a static variable, but it still runs cor...

'const' keyword doesn't work so I will try 'static' ... almost deserves newb C++ question of the year ...
"I am a c++ programmer"
Here is a better one:
07:20
The origin of the name is disputed. The most common explanation is that "Grand Teton" means "large teat" or "large nipple" in French
So the Grand Teton National Park is literally translated to 'big tit national park'
why do I have this feeling that the things I have been learning lately might not be very useful ...
Does it trouble me to write so insubstantially, with air on air? Well--my words will be as enduring as anything my father wrote, or Shakespeare wrote, or Beethoven wrote, or Darwin wrote. It turns out that they all wrote with air on air.
also ... happy halloween :p
07:57
Nice starboard entries @JerryCoffin
08:20
WTFFFFF
YOU CAN OVERLOAD THE COMMA
I HAVE NEVER KNOWN THIS
how about semicolon?
can you overload semicolons?
@VermillionAzure you can also use the overloaded comma in C++17's fold expressions
08:41
Hey I need help with recursive std::function
I'm trying to pass functions to function combinators that return functions
But I cannot have it call itself
08:52
> Default language: American English (United States) [GB]
???
09:04
Make America Great Britain Again!
10
09:25
0
Q: C++ Libraries FAQ

VedantI have observed that almost all third party library have a .hpp file and other .cpp file. What is the need to do so. Why cant we write inline functions in the .hpp file itself? How can we use the library, do we do #include "somelibrary.hpp" and also #include "somelibrary.cpp" or just do #incl...

So, if we get noexcept allocators, will they still allocate on the heap, and can they fail?
any allocation can fail so they need some way of signalling that so a sane action can be taken
well, stack allocation can't fail :-)
maybe if we add noexcept to our heap allocators they also won't be allowed to fail without igniting the system
@Mikhail stack overflow ;)
we need to get rid of exceptions
if it can't be covered by an error code, you can't recover from it
wait a minute, I use exceptions in all of my code
C++ needs better, more standard small_vector types, we have too many things that sit in the heap that shouldn't in the sense they are allocated once
09:45
So ... I kind of understand up to 5th dimension of the universe - 3D + time + possibility of all paths
but from 6th - 10th are kind of wobbly
@Mikhail allow me
@Mikhail those things are unrelated
You can pave over everything with error_codes whatever you like, but that doesn't make all errors recoverable. It's a non-sequitur.
@Telkitty lol
10:15
@Feeds good job, posting a question on c++-faq tag which is a duplicate of an already written and answered c++-faq question :facepalm:
10:25
that just proves it is frequently asked
Hey guys
I wrote a parser combinator library
...actually, lexer combinator
how many "ya" will be prefixed onto the name?
I haven't named it, but the working name was "nomparse"
I think I'll call it "lexinom"
11:04
@milleniumbug don't blame @Feeds :)
@VermillionAzure I'd confer with nom creators or at least have a review. Calling it after a well-known established parser combinator library is a bit like calling your new-born library "TheBestLibraryEver"
Also, a "lexer combinator"? This strongly suggests to me a library that matches an ordered list of regexen into "tokens". Is it that?
11:22
@sehe the tories are far more sane than our current leadership
11:38
@Mgetz disagree
I think they're about on par. The difference is executive power
that's rather scary
And hence visibility. In us press is working overtime to counteract WH attempts at intransparency.
If we scrutinised Brexiteers in the same way you'd see the same, so much is clear from assorted revelations/leaks.
@sehe Yes
I have successfully created a lexer combinator. It returns singular tokens.
So no parse trees. The power of the parser is context-free.
I've also successfully implemented backtracking into the parser, so that's that
It keeps track of line information as well, as well as where errors occur
user784668
@VermillionAzure Ugh backtracking
simultaneous branching is much better for regular languages
user784668
11:53
@VermillionAzure Be very, very, very careful with that, backtracking is a sure-fire way to turn what should be polynomial time into exponential time.
@Fanael I don't really care right now, TBH. I need to get the project done at any cost right now before I don't have a project to show
I don't have time to create an optimizing compiler for context-free grammars
@Fanael Microsoft used to have a SDL regex fuzzer, it would instantly fail any regex that had backtracking
user784668
@Mgetz I just use re2, which instantly fails on any regex that has backtracking because it doesn't implement backtracking.
I think regex optimization would be nice if it could be handled by a proper metaprogramming system
Then it could detect common pathways and actually synthesize a new regex without backtracking, but still have this optimization be a first-class thing instead of needing to jump through something ugly like Scheme macros or C++ template metaprogramming
user784668
@VermillionAzure I believe I've seen Common Lisp regex engines do stuff like that.
12:02
@VermillionAzure so, you implemented a regex subset
or just implement the regex engine to not need backtracking at all
@Mgetz and unbounded kleene plus/star, I suppose
@VermillionAzure Greta, Boost Xpressive
@sehe among other things, if it found something it thought was a violation it ran common inputs that would cause non-poly behavior to verify IIRC
I got that
Give me teh codez!!111! (or you wont get my upvote) — Tom Hawtin - tackline Jul 8 '09 at 19:20
user784668
0
Q: Encode large byte array to 64/128/256 bytes

Mark BenovskyAs i remember there should be some algrotihm that can "compress" a large amount of data to stable 64/128/256 bytes. But I cannot remember what it's called and cannot find it while googling. Maybe you could help me. What i need is: compress a large message (~1,000,000 bytes) to a shorter message...

user784668
12:12
How confused does one have to be to ask such a question?
@sehe No, it's a regular expression language for sure
It implements sequencing, alternative, and Kleene star, which is what is needed for the class of regular expressions
It also allows for recursion with non-terminals
user784668
@VermillionAzure Methinks sehe means "regex" as in "the unclassifiable abomination typical programming languages call regexes", which regular expressions are a proper subset of.
@VermillionAzure recursion as in R -> aRb|<emtpy>
because that is all you need for it to upgrade to a context free grammar
@ratchetfreak Yes.
I have tested matching parentheses with it
the complicates the non-backtracking solution a bit, as instead of a bitvector of states you now need a std::vector of states each with potentially extra recursion state and that may end up growing pretty fast
12:26
@ratchetfreak i have no idea what you're talking about
and yes it's sloppy
user784668
@ratchetfreak Packrat parsing is linear in memory IIRC
to parse a regex using a NFA without backtracking you can do nextStates = reduce(transform(currentStates, [c, &nfa](State* s){return nfa.set_of_next_states(s, c);}), empty_set, union_of_sets);
user784668
Then again packrat parsing is fugly in everything that's not Haskell
with an NFA you are in a state or you are not. with a context free grammer the PDA has a stack which needs to be passed along to the next state and things may get pushed into or popped out of it.
@Fanael it's also offtopic :D
user784668
12:50
Yay I broke my own toy cipher
user784668
I found a differential distinguisher requiring 2^238 work.
user784668
And that's merely the best I've found so far, the search is still ongoing.
user784668
I wonder if it'll hold up to 128 bits of security in the end.
13:08
@PaulUszak yes, im asking if i can resize any data to 256 bytes — Mark Benovsky 4 mins ago
user784668
@milleniumbug I'm still wondering what would happen to the hypothetical 1-billion bytes of Kolmogorov complexity string.
13:23
interesting: perl is the most hated language according to dev-stories: stackoverflow.blog/2017/10/31/disliked-programming-languages
user784668
@ratchetfreak C++ less disliked than C#, I call fake news.
@Fanael maybe there are just more delusional people still thinking C++ is good
user784668
user784668
html5 and css3
I'm surprised php isn't higher
user784668
13:32
ahahahahaha
user784668
Oh, they determine "like" and "dislike" by taking the preferred and dispreferred technologies from SO jobs profiles.
user784668
The results make sense then.
user784668
I fucking hate C++, but I'd still rather work with C++ than many other shits.
yeah if you don't care for it you don't necessarily add it
user784668
Also fuck Linux and its awful documentation.
user784668
13:39
Where can I find the FUSE wire protocol?
user784668
And no, the source doesn't count, it's not documentation.
lol rip
@Fanael google? I've found a few pages and a tutorial describing it
user784668
@ratchetfreak That's not the wire protocol.
user784668
@ratchetfreak fuse_operations, which this tutorial uses, is a broken abomination built upon fuse_lowlevel_ops, which in turn is built upon the raw FUSE protocol.
13:50
@Fanael Each one is less documented than the previous one, which is quite apt representation of how open source works
I've found a somewhat better page: github.com/rfjakob/the-fuse-wire-protocol
I wonder how many programs are still using cobol ...
> Both sides have the message format defined correspondingly in C header files. As there is no other formal specification, these header files define the building blocks of the FUSE wire protocol:
user784668
@milleniumbug How programming works, really.
@Telkitty I'd guess "more than you believe". And even if you compensate for that and increase to more than you previously believed, you're probably still low. :-)
13:56
Just curious: what are you planning to do with the fuse wire protocol?
I heard it was most the used language ... but that was like, 20 years ago ...
user784668
@milleniumbug Make an implementation less crap than libfuse.
user784668
For starters, it's going to be strongly typed, unlike libfuse, where almost everything is an integer.
@Telkitty Thinks don't change quickly in the COBOL world. It's mostly used in things like large banks, where replacing the system would take decades, even at best (and in most cases, nobody's really even trying to replace them anyway).
@Telkitty then you should have no trouble believing that tons of companies have someone maintaining some obscure cobol program
14:00
cc @DiegoPereira
user784668
1 hour ago, by Fanael
I found a differential distinguisher requiring 2^238 work.
user784668
It's at 2^232 now.
user784668
@milleniumbug Now I want static reflection right fucking now. >.<
@Fanael there are several wire protocols that have a (IMO) bad user-space reference implementation
14:46
Uh, people trying to make overengineered solution at work, already spent two days on it, still doesn't work, and they need manually reparsing with regex stuff that was already automatically parser by a library -_____-
smh
@milleniumbug thank you
user784668
15:07
Fucking glorious.
15:26
> Two attacks on EdDSA have been presented. One uses a side-channel attack on electromagnetic leakage; the other uses fault-injection attacks via Rowhammer. In both cases, the deterministic nature of EdDSA makes it vulnerable. The fact that EdDSA is deterministic previously has been an argument for it being more secure because it doesn’t require a reliable random number generator.
> The older ECDSA algorithm is nondeterministic in its original variant, but failures of the random number generator can have catastrophic consequences.
You can't win.
so you need a crypto that avoids determinism but doesn't rely on strong RNG...
user784668
@wilx It's not the deterministic nature of EdDSA, it's the fact that it runs on real hardware.
user784668
These attacks apply to everything that runs on actual hardware.
15:48
@wilx You may not be able to win against every possible type of attack--but neither of these attacks has much bearing on most people's use of cryptography.
user784668
@JerryCoffin No, clearly we should panic and find a way to run crypto code on something else than circuitry ASAP.
@Fanael Been there, done that. Not goin' back.
user784668
I think mechanical devices and (especially) amino acid devices would be even more prone to side-channel attacks.
17:13
Ok, I’m just putting this out there. Come at me, New Yorkers.
 
3 hours later…
20:11
@EtiennedeMartel I've seen the Montreal episode of Bourdain's show... this applies to "smoked meat" too (Pastrami)
20:55
43
Q: Does a PC have to be mounted in metal case

user877329I have seen some projects building PCs in wooden case. I wonder how well this works with respect to grounding and EMI. A grounded metal case should work as a faraday case, and thus isolate the computer from the surroundings. Notice that the EMI problems are not only related to the stability of t...

^^ Interesting. So basically the majority of my machines would be "unlawful" if I sold them.
EMI is loosely enforced, most microwaves would break EMI regulations
Turn on WIFI, put your phone on the microwave, watch the WIFI signal drop
@Mikhail What if you put the put the phone in the microwave? Will it charge faster?
idk, try
@Mysticial That's a bit of an over-simplification. There's a pretty decent chance that they wouldn't meet FCC class B specs (which basically translate to "intended for residential use"). There's also, however, FCC class A, which is intended for office equipment and such--and it has considerably looser requirements, so meeting it isn't nearly as difficult. It wouldn't surprise me a bit of your machines would meet class A specs.
@JerryCoffin Or sell them as "pre-assembled kits"?
21:04
@Mysticial I doubt you can get away with that obvious an end-run around the rules, at least if you're doing things commercially.
I'm sure there are bigger loopholes in our laws.
What's the point of the send clause in the FCC requirement?
> this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.
What's the definition of "accept" in this case anyway?
Does the government want the ability to EMP all user electronics if it wanted to in times of war or something?
@Mysticial if I say anime you say...?
@ScarletAmaranth High School of the Dead is the only one off the top of my head that involves an EMP.
EMP as in electromagnetic pulse EMP :D?
21:10
well, good enough for me, thanks!
@Mikhail you don't have to put it on the microwave, if you're the same room it should be enough to see a signal drop. But that's mostly true for wifi using the G protocol as it's on the same frequency as the microwave.
@Mgetz In Montreal, the best bagels and smoked meat are both Jewish.
21:31
@Mysticial You might understand it as a barrier should receive any interference, in other words it should block any interference which at the same time reduce the interference of the device itself and doesn't simply make signals from other device bounce further... But in some ways that doesn't make sense... If we had a device that could sink all wireless signals we wouldn't be able to use any radio signal except directional signals.
21:53
@Mysticial That's basically just saying that if interference causes you a problem, it's your own problem. Compare this to some licensed operations, where if something causes interference, the licensed operator can go the FCC, and the FCC can and will find and stop whoever's causing the interference.
 
2 hours later…
23:52
terrorist attack on a halloween ...

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